Fender-Roland G-5 Stratocaster

Started by aliensporebomb, January 19, 2012, 03:11:05 AM

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mbenigni

Quote from:  StratPlayer on March 07, 2012, 05:05:53 PM
I canceled my order.  If Roland ever does a firmware update to include the high E string I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Doesn't the G5 support an additional user-defined tuning that could be used for this variation?

StratPlayer

Quote from:  mbenigni on March 08, 2012, 07:37:53 AM
Doesn't the G5 support an additional user-defined tuning that could be used for this variation?

The Roland support person who replied to me didn't mention this possibility.  I'll ask Roland again.

Elantric, I've been using a friends Variax 700 hard tail and I like it.  I'll check out the JVT.  Thanks.

Elantric

#27
http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/g-5_gc-1_brochure.pdf

The G-5 is not capable of User defined tunings.

Here in the states, Fender had a tough time selling the G-5's predecessor, and most were blown out at steep discount 2 years ago.

For me, the Roland G-5 debut at Winter NAMM set the theme for all of Roland's new 2012 offerings - which seemed targeted to a new generation, with no prior exposure to guitar technology - too much rehash of their old technology, but dumbed way down to make it appear more accessible and attractive to the typical guitarist.

I  admit I'm not in that camp.



StratPlayer

Thanks for the good info Elantric!  - it saved me from contacting Roland again.  In the past couple of minutes I've been checking out the JTV's - I don't like the design of the pickguard on the JTV-69 - makes the guitar look sort of cheap looking IMO.  I'm not a Les Paul guy but the JTV-59 sunburst looks great, but I need a trem.  I wonder how much of a hassle it'd be to install a trem on the JTV-59... 

Anyway, Roland should definitely think about offering Double Drop D on the G-5 because they lost a sale to me and perhaps other people as well - and the irony is that it'll probably drive me to the JTV.  In the meantime I bought a used Variax 600 last night and so in the near future it's still three guitars - a Variax, Strat and an Epi Les Paul tuned to Double Drop D.  It would be great to only haul around one guitar.

Elantric

#29
Well there is always the RackVax

http://www.rackvax.com/

But for that price, you could acquire a VG-99, and have alt tuning professional sonic nirvana.

Or the new Boss GP-10  - in 2014 this is the "Variax in a box" sweet spot for price/ performance.


I own both a JTV-59 and a JTV-69

Both needed Luthier skilled attention at the Nut to lower the action (not a problem for me)

The JTV-59 (les paul type)  is a better value, as IMHO its 50% better build quality than the JTV-69 "strat".

Adding a Bigsby to a JTV-59 is not trivial. A Piezo saddle equipped Gibson style tune-o-matic bridge can not discriminate between sensing the section of the strings between bridge and Nut (the section you want to hear) vs the section of string between bridge and tailpiece - so its important to damp the un-wanted string section. The high pitch harp tones that occur when you strum the short section of strings between bridge and tailpiece wreak havoc with DSP Guitar Modeling algorithms and DSP generated Alt Pitched Tunings.

But I have done it  - and it works well.



The principal engineering in the Tyler Variax's is their Bridge design - observe the careful attention to locate the String's ball end as close to the Bridge saddle as a possible, and eliminate the string length behind the bridge.     


I regularly play in a surf band, and use several offset jaguar type guitars, along with a Gretsch 6120, so I understand about the need for a vibrato.

I grew up playing 50's and 60's Gibsons, so my current favorite playing guitar is a PRS SE Limited hollowbody with bigsby  with a '59 Les Paul fat neck profile - only 25were made


I'm tempted to take the guts from the JTV-59 and use a LR Baggs piezo bridge I already own and convert my PRS SE with bigsby to a variax conversion and keep the PAF type  pickups, but its important to know that a foam rubber damper between the bigsby and the T.O.M. Piezo bridge will be a mandatory addition- else the Variax Alt tunings will be horrendous.

But meanwhile I love playing my bigsby equipped guitars. I can Palm Mute and the guitar stays in tune. A properly setup Bigsby provides a means of musical expression that can not be found on a hard tail.   

StratPlayer

Elantric, thanks - great answer, lot's of information.  After I wondered here about a trem on the JTV-59 I looked around on the Line 6 tech forum and found a couple of threads with people having problems with alt tunings on their JTV-69's.  Evidently there is a potential issue with the trem springs either resonating or vibrating that can cause issues (the guitars evidently leave the factory with dampening inserts inside the springs that perhaps aren't totally effective?)  Anyway, fascinating to read about this - and it would seem to be risky to just forge ahead and have a trem installed on a 59 that would affect the guitar perhaps negatively and would certainly void the warranty.

I agree, I need a trem.  I may end up with a JTV-69 simply by default - and of course I'd put on a maple neck.  :-)




Elantric

#31
QuoteI agree, I need a trem.  I may end up with a JTV-69 simply by default - and of course I'd put on a maple neck.  :-)

Be sure to read my JTV-69 Tremolo Setup guide here:
(I'm stevekc on the Line6 forums)
http://line6.com/support/thread/73637

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9371.0

StratPlayer

Quote from:  Elantric on March 08, 2012, 11:54:26 AM
Be sure to read my JTV-69 Tremolo Setup guide here:
(I'm stevekc on the Line6 forums)
http://line6.com/support/thread/73637

Steve, thank you very much, I'll check it out.  I'm OregonStrat over there.

Thanks!

Dave

mbenigni

QuoteThe G-5 is not capable of User defined tunings.

Unbelievable.  I just can't even imagine what they're thinking at this point.

datsunrobbie

Quote from:  mbenigni on March 08, 2012, 12:50:31 PM
Unbelievable.  I just can't even imagine what they're thinking at this point.

They are probably counting on traditional guitarists choosing a strat over a variax just because it is a strat. I have a Variax 300 and it just feels "cheap" compared to my Mexican RR and American strats. Sounds great, but I rarely play it because it just doesn't have the feel of a well made guitar. I have heard the JTV is a big improvement over the 300, but I have never actually found one in a store. And that is another factor - you can bet the local Guitar Center will have a G-5 soon after release. No need to improve if your competition does not even make it to the showroom floor.


mbenigni

QuoteNo need to improve if your competition does not even make it to the showroom floor.

Sadly quite true, but why would you leave such an obvious chink in your armor?  Every potential buyer that says, "If only it had tuning X..." will walk away from this product.  (The traditionalists who are afraid of additional configuration could have simply ignored it.  Hide a mini-USB jack behind the backplate, where they'll never even see it.)  I can say for my own part that my interest in the G5 just dropped from "hmm, nice" to absolute zero.

Compared with an internal GK, the additional physical controls, and the extensive DSP integrated into this strat, a little flash rom and enough embedded firmware to allow for specifying a user tuning (i.e. six tiny integers) would have been relatively cheap.  Seems far beyond a no-brainer to me, so how does this get past an entire committee at Roland?

StratPlayer

Quote from:  datsunrobbie on March 08, 2012, 02:00:06 PM
They are probably counting on traditional guitarists choosing a strat over a variax just because it is a strat. I have a Variax 300 and it just feels "cheap" compared to my Mexican RR and American strats. Sounds great, but I rarely play it because it just doesn't have the feel of a well made guitar. I have heard the JTV is a big improvement over the 300, but I have never actually found one in a store. And that is another factor - you can bet the local Guitar Center will have a G-5 soon after release. No need to improve if your competition does not even make it to the showroom floor.
Very true, the reason I initially ordered a G-5 was because it was a Strat.  Whomever made the decision to not allow the guitar to do Drop D on the high E string unfortunately made a mistake.

In the interim I received the Variax 600 I ordered - it turned out to be a 300 and so I sent it back.  But before sending it back I had purchased Line 6 Workbench and with a click of the mouse in less than a few seconds of opening the program I had set the 300 to Drop D tuning on both E strings.  Perhaps Roland should have considered an additional interface on the G-5 to accommodate software similar to Workbench.

I've now ordered a Variax 700 with Trem.  At some point I'll get a 600 as a backup.

Elantric

QuoteI've now ordered a Variax 700 with Trem.  At some point I'll get a 600 as a backup.

Both have identical 2003 era Variax technology. Tough to order a new Variax 700 with Tremolo since this model is now 7 years old.

The new Tyler Variax's have major improvements compared to the older models and are worth checking out.   

StratPlayer

Quote from:  Elantric on March 21, 2012, 09:15:06 AM
Both have identical 2003 era Variax technology. Tough to order a new Variax 700 with Tremolo since this model is now 7 years old.

The new Tyler Variax's have major improvements compared to the older models and are worth checking out.

As I mentioned, I'd already been using a Variax 700 hard tail and had it dialed in to my Eleven Rack.  Some of those tones took a lot of time with the Eleven Rack to get what I wanted out of the 700 - in particular the ES-335 neck sounds great.  The 700 I bought is a sunburst from a Guitar Center - they said it was in excellent condition, no fret wear and it looked great in their picture so I bought it.  I did notice a big difference in the frets from the 300 to the 700 I've been playing - the 300 frets weren't dressed on the edges, very cheap.  Obviously you get what you pay for.

Bottom line, I've already spent a lot of time dialing in the 700 and for covers it does exactly what I need.  Just gigging with one guitar would be great.

sas

#39
I can't find a single end user review for the G-5.  Has anyone actually bought one?

I want to know what the build quality is like.

-- sas

Elantric

#40
Not much talk about these here a VGuitarForums because despite the hype, they are closed systems that hold little interest here.
No 13 pin connectivity on Roland G5  / Fender VG Strat equals no ability to connect to any Roland VG/GR/GP  GK13 processors 

I played the G5 at NAMM, its basically a Mexican Strat with the old 2007 Fender VG strat guts, and no 13 pin  or user configuration, 3 hour max battery life,  so it was not my cup of tea.

Pin


Elantric

#42
QuoteWhat is the point to it?


Exactly!

Its supposed to be a rival  / alternative to the Line 6 Variax, and

Fender already tried to market this exact concept  back in 2007 as a the

"Fender VG Strat".



It bombed in the markeplace back then - and for some reason Roland feels they can turn that around this time.


I tell them:   "Good luck!" 

aliensporebomb

If it had a way of "uploading" sounds to the guitar from modules so you could have your 30 most used sounds stored on the guitar so you wouldn't have to bring your module to gigs I could see it being cool.  Or if it had 13-pin out.  But it doesn't really.

The biggest problem with the earlier VG strat was it seemed expensive for what it was.  And now they're trying again with a less expensive guitar.  But it's still expensive.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

sas

Quote from: Pin on April 25, 2012, 01:00:41 PM
What is the point to it?

So you think I'd be better off with one of the line6 James Tyler Variax?

I was kind of scared off by the build and setup problems they had (still have?).

I really liked the JTV-69 and was going to get that until I read about all the problems. 

I could go with the JTV-69US custom ($3700 street price), but that's more than I wanted to spend on my second electric guitar.

Elantric

#45
I love my JTV-69 - but yes it took three exchanges to get one with a good neck - that was 6 months ago.

I understand the current JTV-69's  are more consistent.

Edit - in 2014 I prefer my Boss GP-10 over any Variax or Roland G5 Strat -  - the GP-10 is far more detailed  / accurate modeling compared to the competition.

Elantric

#46
Quote
The biggest problem with the earlier VG strat was it seemed expensive for what it was.  And now they're trying again with a less expensive guitar.  But it's still expensive.

agreed -

Dive into an old 2008 Sweetwater catalog,  the Fender VG Strat was $1699 street - mostly because it was based upon a genuine USA Strat.

The new Roland G5 is based upon a lower cost Mexican Strat - and its $1299 street.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StratVG3SB?utm_source=none&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CLKC-O-40K8CFQ1jhwodeCEWGg

Edit

In 2013 Roland introduced the Fender/Roland G5A = higher price version built on a USA Strat

No sonic or electrical difference from the 2012 Mexican G5 

Mrchevy

For that price you could buy a gr-55, screw it to the back of a mexican strat, and have it all AND a bag of chips. And best of all, it wouldn't weigh any more than a Les Paul ;D
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

aliensporebomb

I get the idea that people were buying them for the necks when they were blowing them out for way less than the going rate, I see bodies with full pickguards on ebay all of the time.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

gumbo

Quote from: aliensporebomb on April 25, 2012, 06:55:15 PM
I get the idea that people were buying them for the necks when they were blowing them out for way less than the going rate, I see bodies with full pickguards on ebay all of the time.

Yep... but some of those (at least the ones that come up in my searches!) seem to come from our 'Friendly Fender Dismantler' ,  Reliable Fender... so perhaps it is just in part the old marketing exercise of reckoning you can make more out of selling the bits separately...   I guess it must work sometimes, or he would have stopped doing it long ago..   :)
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