They're listening with their eyes.

Started by Elantric, November 23, 2011, 08:01:10 AM

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aliensporebomb

Quote from: Piing on January 15, 2013, 11:44:38 PM
He he  :D Here I am:

That was with a Progressive Rock band (a perfect fit for the look of the Charvel). My playing skills were not very good at that time, but everybody praised me, probably because they listened with the eyes...    ;D

Same here - we were a progrock outfit and my ambition was probably farther out than my skills at the time. 

We did a 16 track demo back in 1990 and never really finished it but here was one of the tracks from those sessions:


The band was called "Hydravian":




My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Rhcole on January 15, 2013, 10:25:14 PM
OK, all very interesting!

What I'm wondering about is the reaction to lots of floor pedals and other electronic gear. I'm less concerned about the guitars than I am looking like I'm flying an airplane.
Any of you had to deal with audiences reacting (especially in your wine country etc. type of gigs) to the technology itself?

Good call.  At the time I had a JC120, a 3 space rack cabinet with 3 rack units, a Chandler tube driver, a massive midi footpedal controller for the rackunits and one of the rack units had a 3 button controller, and a 3 button controller for the JC-120.  Lets just say it was like a spaceship up there.

I don't think the audience cared but sometimes they wondered where the "keyboard player" was - because some of my rack units could create faux keyboard sounds.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

IanRamos

OK, all very interesting!

What I'm wondering about is the reaction to lots of floor pedals and other electronic gear. I'm less concerned about the guitars than I am looking like I'm flying an airplane.
Any of you had to deal with audiences reacting (especially in your wine country etc. type of gigs) to the technology itself?


well in my experience the audience don't care about what they don't see ... i only use 3 pedals live , but i could use 10.000 and they will never notice , so it's all good .

que tal Piing , it's a shame that u had to get rid of the charvel , it really looked ... i don't know , it looked heavy metal !!
but as they say ... no pain no gain .    :-\

aliensporebomb

All I know is you'll definetely get better audience response playing one of these:


Than one of these:


Ivan said something like when the audience sees something "familiar" they relax and kind of know what to expect.   If it's a metal band, well, a shred machine or a weird Zoraxe guitar might work with a half stack. 

But a strat or les paul is what the average audience member expects to see at a "regular" rock show.  "Deviate from the norm" too much and you could end up having an unwanted response.  How weird from a genre that was supposed to be about individuality.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

It also depends a lot on who else is on stage. Ive been in the support backing band for an atractive female vocalist and been rendered essentially invisible to the audience.

aliensporebomb

#30
I can't believe it - guys, watch this video!  He is TOTALLY illustrating the concept in this thread.

He had an amp maker take the guts of....a Roland Cube 80 XL  amp....




and put it into these custom cabinets and.....seriously watch!

Watch this video, all of it but particularly watch the point at 15 minutes "he says "they're listening with their eyes"".



Amazing!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

#31
I'm a fan of Mr. Chappers  - he gets good tone, and I trust his opinion.

Interesting confirmation I'm not nuts!



I've been recommending and using a Roland Cube 80XL as my main  "grab and go gig" Amp for the past couple years.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6471.0
To the un-initiated, This video makes an Excellent demo of precisely what Roland COSM Amp Modelling is capable of !






Re "Listening with their eyes" - observe closely that Les Paul uses showmanship to make it look like he's doing live looping in the 1970's  - but was actually performing to pre-recorded segments of a Cassette tape in a remote control operated Nakamichi Dragon Cassette deck with guitar mounted controls.



http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/71/lot/27947/


Les Paul showing off his Les Paulverizer! 
A custom switching device created by Paul in 1956 to remotely control tape machines hidden off-stage enabling Paul to play along with a selection of pre-recorded backing tracks. Paul initially created the name "Paulverizer" as a joke but later created this device to allow he and Mary Ford to perform with backing tracks during live performances. Together with extension cable.

thebrushwithin

The eyes have it....my best advice is also to have the"proper" looking guitar for the venue, keep your rig orderly(cables, etc.), and the most important part is to SMILE!!! It gives you an amazing advantage, before a note is played... ;D

Piing

Quote from: thebrushwithin on January 22, 2013, 06:42:02 AMand the most important part is to SMILE!!! It gives you an amazing advantage, before a note is played... ;D

I agree. Although in certain metal styles it seems like the unfriendly face of the musicians is part of the show  ;D

If there were a competition of The Ever-Smiling Guitarist, I guess who will be #1:


PD FX

Yes, they are listening with their eyes..
And you can use "musical crossdressing" as a flavour in your stageperformance..

I remember a real nice gig I had with my trio, and I played an acoustic Richwood with a VG88 just straight into the PA.. what struck me was the ability to actually make a musical journey, using different textures. this was a sunday afternoon gig, so it was kind of mellow.. I got feedback from the people watching, because they where amazed by the sounds coming out of this acoustic guitar..
Prettty sure they would've been LESS amazed, when I had played an electric guitar.

So it works both ways, a musician should be aware of that. Everybody knows these hilarious distorted ukulele solo's: again, same principle, musical crossdressing..
When I play piano on my guitar, I know it's not piano, but act like it, and that makes it kind of a piano parody, whitch in turn sounds cool.. that's the whole point: act your instrument.

The oldest records from musical crossdressing are from the Mills Brothers, they sang their trumpets. they were hilariously good and very populair in the '30's of the last century.

On amps: the most marvelous sound I ever had on stage, was a marlboro transistor amp. cheap,small open cabinet. dont know why, just sounded marvelous






LPHovercraft

Quote from: Guitarpolson on January 23, 2013, 03:13:23 AM
On amps: the most marvelous sound I ever had on stage, was a marlboro transistor amp. cheap,small open cabinet. dont know why, just sounded marvelous

Expectation cross-dressing. You look at it and think it would be crazy to sound good. When it rocks you're pleasantly surprised.

I use the same logic when on a date, but have recently learned that wearing my underwear on the outside of my pants and referring to myself as Batman is a bridge too far.
Houston Haynes - LPHovercraft

LPHovercraft

Quote from: Elantric on January 19, 2013, 07:23:40 AM
It also depends a lot on who else is on stage. Ive been in the support backing band for an atractive female vocalist and been rendered essentially invisible to the audience.

On a more serious point than my previous post - I was just having dinner last night with a good friend from Sweden who plays a LOT of solo guitar gigs in his home country. He's a bit of an old-school tone junky with the ironic twist if having been the 'brains' behind the Virtual Guitarist VSTi plugins distributed by Steinberg.

Anyway, we talked about stage antics (particularly as he has a huge catalog of classic British and American pop/rock committed to memory) and how much the audience reacts to the visual impression. He says that things go 'a bit smoother' if he stops to tune his instrument every few songs. It's almost like you have to give the audience a chance to understand what you're doing.

Then he said "and of course it helps to  have a singer that will chat up the audience while you're changing setups. And if the singer is a pretty female, so much the better."

Like it or not, stagecraft matters.
Houston Haynes - LPHovercraft

Elantric

Quote
Then he said "and of course it helps to  have a singer that will chat up the audience while you're changing setups. And if the singer is a pretty female, so much the better."

Like it or not, stagecraft matters.

I once interviewed Roger Steen of "The Tubes"  - and he said when they started they were the combined members of two bands (The Beans & Red White and Blues Band) - they sounded good but nobody showed up to the gigs, so they decided to "Ramp things up a notch" and hired  female exotic dancers, and the rest is history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tubes
   

Elantric

#38
QuoteOn amps: the most marvelous sound I ever had on stage, was a marlboro transistor amp. cheap,small open cabinet. dont know why, just sounded marvelous

In the 1970's I was living in Echo Park near LA, and my room mate "Kimble" was Randy Rhoads "roadie".
In the late 70's I saw Quiet Riot at the Starwood a few times, my Rocket 88 band even opened for them once.

When I assessed Randy Rhoads rig, I  was surprised.

This was the Amp head - a mid 1970's Peavey Standard Solid State Head



This was his cab - an Early 1970's Ampeg V2 Cab loaded with Four 12" Altec Lansing Speakers. its a big cab! Was popular with Rolling Stones circa 1972


This was his "tone" box - an MXR Distortion+ - All knobs set to full clockwise Max, always engaged 100% of the time - sits on top of the amp.


He also had an Echo Plex


And at sound check they spent a lot of time targeting the "Guitar Solo Spot Light" - to focus on his Guitar,



and nearby duck tape down the "Momentary Floor Switch" to activate the Echo - Only when the switch was depressed was Echo Activated, remove your foot, and Echo turns off. They could have used the sensing of this same switch to enable the Spot Light too.

IN this manner, Randy could look cool on stage, the Tone and Sustain was phenomenal - and when Randy headed over to his "Solo stage position", he could place his foot on the floor switch to enable the Echoplex, and at the end of the solo, Randy simply strutted back behind  Kevin DuBrow - the vocalist, the Echo turned off, since he was no longer standing on the echo floor switch
It sounded like this


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiet_Riot


PD FX

I know this Peavey amp! played on it in the 80's..... they are sooooo loud..
yes, there is a lot of prejudice about amplification.. whether tubes,transistors or chips, you gotta bring it to the stage yourself.. In the end it is your music and your presence that makes the show. tubes are largely overrated in that aspect. The warmth comes from the player, not from the tubes...


Elantric

#40
QuoteI know this Peavey amp! played on it in the 80's..... they are sooooo loud..


Yep - if you know this amp - Randy Rhoads "Blizzard of Oz" tone is the last thing you would expect it to deliver.

aliensporebomb

#41
Quote from: Elantric on January 23, 2013, 07:41:54 AM
I once interviewed Roger Steen of "The Tubes"  - and he said when they started they were the combined members of two bands (The Beans & Red White and Blues Band) - they sounded good but nobody showed up to the gigs, so they decided to "Ramp things up a notch" and hired  female exotic dancers, and the rest is history

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tubes
   

I love Roger Steen's guitar playing - seen the Tubes three times live - another of the underrated unsung guys who can really play and his singing voice is better than most lead guitar players too.  Plays for the song most of the time but can really rip when it is required.

Maybe I should hire some female exotic dancers?  The wife wouldn't understand... "but people will want to come to my shows more now!"
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

One of my best live tones to this day still came from a Mesa Boogie studio preamp into a JC-120 with TC Electronic and Lexicon FX in the effects loop.  I couldn't believe it.  Every time I'd dig into a solo the thing just rang like nothing else - I could do clean washes ala Alex Lifeson on "Power Windows" with the FX and backing off I could nail the clean tone on Robert Plant's "Big Log".  Crazy.  The JC is known for being a great clean amp but the distortion is pretty mediocre.  With the Mesa goosing its front end it was like butter.   And the clean tone which was already great was "warmed up" by the Mesa. 


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

#43
QuoteI love Roger Steen's guitar playing

I will tell him!

Me too!  Ive become friends with the band, once during sound check Roger played both parts of The Beatle's "And you Bird Can sing" simultaneously in its entirety  - Awesome talent.

This showcases his talent


IanRamos

Then he said "and of course it helps to  have a singer that will chat up the audience while you're changing setups. And if the singer is a pretty female, so much the better."

buff , don't even get me started on that ...
i totally agree , it makes a whole difference having a female singer in the band , even if she is mediocre in the singing part , you can be sure it will be a great gig if she's good looking .

sad but true ...

amazing Chappers video by the way , i never thought you could get such tone from a Cosm amp .
i certanly don't with my gr-55 , i had to get me a Pod hd500 just for the distortion .
  :-\

LPHovercraft

#45
Quote from: Elantric on January 23, 2013, 08:07:41 AM
This was his "tone" box - an MXR Distortion+ - set to max, always on


One: this made me laugh the hardest I've laughed in recent memory. Dunno why - but it struck me as funny to the tune of "of *course* it was!"

:-)

Two: Echo Park isn't 'near' LA - it *is* LA - practically downtown! :-D

Again - on a more serious note - from I know EXACTLY what kind of bass and guitar amp I'm going to buy for walking around to 'straight tone' gigs. I've been thinking about being a tad but more portable than carrying around my full rig and 'just be a bass player' or 'just be a guitar player'. Walking into a session with the Megatar in a gig bag over my shoulder - a bass amp in one hand and a guitar amp in the other - seems mighty appealing compared to hauling in the VG/VB and digital mixer, et al.

And holy crap, does that little amp head *deliver*! Of course, being able to slap the front end of that pre-amp with decent technique helps quite a bit. :)
Houston Haynes - LPHovercraft

Elantric

#46
QuoteTwo: Echo Park isn't 'near' LA - it *is* LA - practically downtown! :-D

Agreed - those were great times - Rent was $250 / mo for a three bedroom Victorian House.
- and I had two room mates so $83/mo living expense left me room to be a full time musician for 4 years.
My Landlord owned the House they used for the 1970's "CountryTime Lemonade" TV ads - nearby.

and Tom Waits was my next door neighbor - but thats a whole off topic story - to be continued.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6125.msg83168#msg83168


mbenigni

What a great thread!  Love the stories about LA in the 70's, and the Randy Rhoads info (with gear porn) is awesome!  The great thing about that rig is that you know he chose most of those components (the Echoplex is probably an exception) because he was broke, and they were available.  Play hard enough and almost anything will work.

I do love the MXR Dist+ though - still a bargain.

Elantric

#48
I arrived in LA in 1976, moved to the Manhatten Beach / Lawndale area  - discovered there are zero lawns in Lawndale - mostly cheap low budget  post WW2 2-bedroom houses  with front yards concreted over, full of oil stains and partially dismantled VW's and Corvairs  on narrow 50 foot wide lots, where every other house had identical floor plan, simply 180 reversed from the neighbors house - 3 foot wide side yards, In summer at diner time, you could say "pass the Salt & Pepper Please", and your next door neighbor could easily accomplish this feat thru open adjoining windows.

In August 1976 I headed to Hollywood to see local live music, saw nothing exciting - until I decided to check out the Thursday night house band at Gazzarri's in the Sunset Strip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazzarri%27s

It was some band I never heard of called "Van Halen" - all I could think of was Dutch Boy Paint. ;)

I arrived early and saw their sound check.

Eddie played a stock Ibanez Destroyer


and he had a Boss SD-1 Super Distortion for solos


and a 1972 "4 input" 50 watt Marshall head


and one 4x12 slant cab loaded with Celestions G30's

He also had a UniVox EC-80A  Tape Echo



He did use a Variac, set to 85VAC to run his Marshall on  - instead of the local 117VAC


They played zero originals, 100% covers of Aerosmith, Cream.   


When they hit the stage  - David Lee Roth went into a fast diatribe -  rather like Peter Wolf in the J-Geils Band  opening with :

"Ladies and Gentleman, we've been sleeping all day so we will have ALL the energy and power to rock ALL your socks and party All night with all you wonderful people -

1 -2 -3 -4 !"

and they went into a perfect version of "Walk This Way"

They were the best Aerosmith cover band I ever saw! and I learned I was no longer the best guitarist in LA. ;)


Made me want to form my own band called "CamaroSmith





 


MCK

Quote from: Elantric on January 24, 2013, 11:31:20 AM
... and I learned I was no longer the best guitarist in LA. ;)

What a wonderful post. Thanks for sharing this experience. I wish I was there when it all happened.