Roland VGA-7

Started by Elantric, February 10, 2008, 09:10:22 PM

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happyjay

#25
Sorry if this comes over as a cross-post but I think my first was in the wrong place.

Tried to flash a VGA-7 to 1.10 firmware. No lights on device after reboot. Just light thump when applying power. I followed the instructions to a T. I think I just wasted $250 plus $199 for the US-20. Anybody know how to revive one of these? I can't even figure out how to get the chassis out to look inside for a serial port or JTAG for emergency flashing. Thanks if by some chance you know what to do. ???

kenact

Have you tried a factory reset? The procedure is detailed on page 47 of the downloadable user manual.
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happyjay

Yes, I have tried the <power>+<write> combo but it has no effect. The guy doesn't even light up when you apply power. But the amp makes the little thump and hum that lets me know the PSU didn't magically die right when I flashed the unit. It has all the characteristics of a bricked piece of electronics. I was hoping somebody had a service manual or something to let me know if there was a JTAG or similar inside where I could upload a failsafe firmware. I found an authorized service center nearby so if I have to I will put it on his bench but it sucks to have to fork out for that. Thanks.

tekrytor

#28
It's been five or more years since I did the same update on mine, but I remember it using a dozen or more .MID files in an exact seqence. If by chance one of the files is corrupt or "played" in the wrong sequence, the upgrade is corrupted and can do what you see. I would:
1. Examine your MID files carefully. Make sure they are all around the same age and size, in fact are the same as the Roland site issued files, redownload if necessary.

2. Try running the upgrade again. If that doesn't work...recheck the filenames and sequence and try again.

3. In my case, it seemed a really bizzare way to do it, but I used Windows Media Player with the MIDI output in the Control Panel > Sound settings set to my MIDI interface. Worked like a charm for me.

There are also "superstitions" around the optimal MIDU interface being the old Serial Port types on the old PCs, the ones with the D connector that splits off into midi and game controller connections. Good luck finding a working one these days though.

Also, I monitor a Yahoo Group for the VGA amps, with a few dozen members, some rather dedicated members. You might read the postings there, maybe join to ask its members for more help.
Just go to Yahoo, look for the Yahoo Groups, then search for "Roland VGA", that should find it. I'll post a link here later, but I'm late for work now.
[UPDATE]: Here's the link to the Roland VGA Yahoo Group:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/RolandVGA/
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

happyjay

Quote from:  tekrytor on October 24, 2012, 09:38:50 AM
...If by chance one of the files is corrupt or "played" in the wrong sequence, the upgrade is corrupted and can do what you see....

I infer from your suggestion that even though my display is not working at all that you think I can still run the upgrade again? I didn't interpret the behavior that way; I took it to mean the thing wasn't booting at all and I was "bricked" as they say in the smartphone dialect. Maybe you are right on that though. I downloaded the files straight from the roland UK FTP twice and did a diff on them. They are identical. I will try some of your other suggestions. The WMP thing is quite interesting.

Elantric

#30
Typically Roland products from that era can get clobbered when you allow the "SMF Player" app to automatically attempt to feed all the firmware update files sequentially one after another.

Instead - its best to use your mouse and manually open each *.mid SMF file and then send each file one at a time. 

Although I never heard of any Firmware newer than Version 1.10
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RolandVGA/files


And what version are you attempting to install?

http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=251

happyjay

Quote from:  Elantric on October 24, 2012, 02:19:19 PM
Typically Roland products from that era can get clobbered when you allow the "SMF Player" app to automatically attempt to feed all the firmware update files sequentially one after another.

Instead - it best to your your mouse and manually open each *.mid SMF file and then send each file one at a time.

I wish that was made commonly known. So in your opinion does clobbered = must go to the repair bench or do I stand a chance of trying to re-flash even though there is no display?

You guys are great BTW.

happyjay

#32
Quote from:  Elantric


and I have searched around - where did you locate these "Roland VGA-7 Update" files?

And what version are you attempting to install?

http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=251

The version is 1.10 and is available with the SMF Update utility bundled from the UK ftp. I found out about it from another guy's site but pulled the files from Roland UK directly.

Elantric

#33
http://www.thehotdogs.net/vga/

QuoteMore info:

VGA-7 User Manual size 3.8Mb
VGA-7 and GFC-50 size 100Kb
VGA-7 MIDI Implemetation size 1,3Mb
VGA-7 Preset Patch Chart high resolution - size 2,9Mb
VGA-7 Patchlist low resolution - size 500Kb
Description Patchlist (Pno) sorted on Patch Number size 50Kb
Description Patchlist (amp) sorted on amp type size 50Kb

FCB1010 with VGA-7 setup sample size 16kb
SysEx File of the settings above - size 3kb

COSM Amp Names size 45Kb


Reset your amp with:
Power on while holding WRITE. Release WRITE, then press WRITE again

Firmware V1.10 - file size 453Kb, updated software for VGA-7, hold CH + REV at power-on to determind what version you have
Note!
No guaranties for that this update will work! Please consult Roland Support if it fails in any way...


==
**VGA-7 System Update Procedure**

Tools Required:
* VGA-7
* VGA-7 Update Files
* Sequencer capable of playing SMF
* MIDI Cable


***IMPORTANT:  Once you begin the upate procedure, do not turn off the power of the VGA-7***


1) Connect the MIDI In of VGA-7 to the MIDI Out
   of the sequencer with the MIDI cable.
2) Power on the VGA-7 while holding COSM GUITAR TYPE
   and MANUAL.
3) Press WRITE while hoding TUNER.
4) When "--" is displayed send each SMF in numeric
   order.
5) After the last SMF is sent, turn power off and back
   on.
6) Perform Factory Reset:  Power on while holding WRITE
   then press WRITE.

(c)2001 Roland Corporation U.S.

tekrytor

#34
I think you can probably save it yourself, if you simply reinstall the upgrade. It has at least a fair chance of working. I would attempt it before taking it to repair.

If you join the (moderated) Yahoo Group for Roland VGA, you can find the upgrade files there at:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/RolandVGA/files/

There are also posts on the same group, numbered around 120-122 that talk about this upgrade and the data transfer problems.

The odd thing about using the media player is that it apparently controls the playback tempo, including the rate of MIDI transfer, whereby some MIDI utilities may try to "play" the MIDI file data as fast as possible, which the VGA may not handle well/correctly/etc.

It's also a good idea to use a surge protector with the amp and the computer running the update. A notebook is best because its battery will prevent dropout on its side.

AND, critical, as Elantric pointed out in a previous message, perform each segment (e.g. play each MID file) manually, so the breaks are clean between files. Follow the instructions on screen. It tells you when its ready for the next file and which one to load.

Keep us posted...
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

happyjay

Thanks for the Yahoo links, I had not been able to ferret that one out myself. This info about the transfer speed issue is very enlightening and gives me hope. Again, you guy are tops!

Elantric

#36
Sooo

I would try the following procedure

==
1) Perform Factory Reset:  Power on while holding WRITE then press WRITE.

2) Connect the MIDI In of VGA-7 to the MIDI Out of your PC/Mac with a known good working MIDI Interface with the MIDI cable.

3) Power on the VGA-7 while holding COSM GUITAR TYPE and MANUAL.

4) Press WRITE while holding TUNER.

5) Wait 30 seconds, send each SMF in numeric order ONE AT A TIME:
In other words, launch the UPDSMF.EXE Application (which is included with the VGA7UPD_1.10.zip file)
Establish your MIDI Out connections in Preferences.


** Crucial Info - Avoid pointing the UPDSMF app "SMF Path" to the file directory that contains your  "V7_110_*.MID" SMF files.
If you accidentally set the "SMF PATH" to the location of your   "V7_110_*.MID" SMF files, then the UPDSMF app corruption prone process of
"Auto Download the next higher numerical Sequence file - before the target Roland product being updated is actually ready" occurs,
and this can clobber your VGA-7. Its the same paradigm as the corrupt prone VG-88 Firmware update procedure, which became a Roland Service nightmare back in 2001.


6) After the last SMF is sent, turn the VGA-7 power off and back  on.

7) Perform Factory Reset:  Power on while holding WRITE then press WRITE.

happyjay

Looks hopeless. I have run this process repeatedly. But the unit is not even booting. I mean it displays zilch when I power it on. Unless there is a way to get inside (and this seems daunting, pull the prom and somehow obtain a full flash image (I would settle for any version) and put the prom in a burner, it looks like I just wasted a fair amount of money.

gumtown

Looks like you have a unique doorstop,
thankfully the latter gear uses a bootloader, so if an upgrade goes wrong,
the bootloader will still enable a firmware change even if the operating system is bricked.

Still doesn't help your situation, i bet firmware 1.00 is now looking pretty good after all.
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tekrytor

Where are you located Jay? Maybe someone on the forum is nearby and can have a look too.

Also, I haven't opened one up, but there may be a jumper inside that lets you reset it manually. If you're up to it, you might disassemble it a bit and have a look.

You might also call Roland Service and ask them about prices to fix this issue. I'm sure you're not the first to do this.
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gumtown

I think you are going to need to change your user name to Unhappyjay, i don't think there is anything that can be done to fix it.
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happyjay

Just to update everyone, the verdict was it's dead, Jim. I could've spent $80 bench charge plus extra labor and parts after that to get a new chip from Roland. Instead I took it back to Guitar Center who blew my mind by replacing it no questions asked. Floored. Now if I can just finish figuring out a workable way to program my FCB1010 to control it. I'm about halfway down that road. Thanks guys.

tekrytor

That worked out well, real happy for you! Could have been much worse.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

teejay

I have to say I'm SERIOUSLY impressed with the way my rig sounds through my ( Roland ) VGA7, and would reccomend any V-guitarist to try one.

Only downside is it's a heavy beastie, in my case compounded by the fact it's flight cased.....

BUT....... for the tone I'm getting now, I'll take the backache !!!!

Regards,

TeeJay
Custom KGB headless, internal GK2a and sustainiac stealth plus. GR55 straight into PA.   Guitar out (COSM) feeding digitech VL4 vocal harmoniser.

teejay

Just started using my VGA7 live this weekend, and MAN..... what a tone I'm getting with it!!!!  ;D
It's a seriously heavy beastie, especially flightcased, but worth every pound / kilo ( delete as applicable ), IMHO.
I really thought I was getting a good tone with my old rig, but this absolutely blows it out of the water, a real quantum leap in performance.
I'm thinking, this amp was designed for V-guitar, so maybe I shouldnt be surprised.....
Anybody else on here using one?

Regards,

TeeJay
Custom KGB headless, internal GK2a and sustainiac stealth plus. GR55 straight into PA.   Guitar out (COSM) feeding digitech VL4 vocal harmoniser.

datsunrobbie

I use the VGA-7 in my home studio with the VG-99, GR-55, or with just a GK-equipped strat. Great tone, I definitely recommend the VGA-7 as long as somebody else has to carry it, and recently I've been seeing them as low as $299 on Guitar Center's used gear page

teejay

Quote from:  datsunrobbie on September 23, 2013, 01:11:08 PM
I definitely recommend the VGA-7 as long as somebody else has to carry it,

I don't have anyone to carry it, but its flightcase has some serious castors   ;D
Custom KGB headless, internal GK2a and sustainiac stealth plus. GR55 straight into PA.   Guitar out (COSM) feeding digitech VL4 vocal harmoniser.

Toby Krebs

Several Guitar Center stores are giving them away. Far too heavy for me though I sure like what they offer and yes they are ideal for v- guitar. For most of what I do these days I have two Alto 10 in. powered speakers I bought because I can lift them over my head with one arm. They happen to sound good but all I cared about when I bought them was the fact that they are light .Two hernia surgeries made me change my weight requirements for amplification. Enjoy!

tekrytor

I've got one also and like teejay, mine seldom leaves the house, it's so heavy.
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frankpaush

..sorry for tearing the thread out of its grave ... I recently got a VGA-7 thrown away by its former user. because the whole digital section seems to be out of function. No lights, no reaction. The poweramp section is in function, using the EXT in a signal is coming out of the speakers, adjustable by Master volume. Easy way could be there is missing any power coming from the power amp board to the digital board. Unfortunately I can't find any instruction about the values that must be seen at the multiplug.

Is there anybody around who can provide me with a service manual ?? Would be nice, even if I decide to bring it to someone knowing more about electronics than me :D