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Author Topic: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor  (Read 14941 times)

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Elantric

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #75 on: November 22, 2013, 04:03:54 PM »

For VG-99 folks - dont overlook the FiiO external DAC (SPDIF to analog out)   - might prove to have lower noise compared to feeding a VG-99 Main Analog out into a third party  iPad audio interface. 

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9163.msg66031#msg66031





Someone here claims that if you disable the VG-99 "Advanced Mode" USB Audio, then VG-99 can connect  to iPad using an Apple USB Camera Adapter. This needs more exploration.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 06:09:31 PM by admsustainiac »
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #76 on: November 22, 2013, 04:38:28 PM »

FYI, for those who haven't stumbled on it, there's a bit more detailed manual for BIAS than what you get with the in-app help here:
http://www.positivegrid.com/bias-help/
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »

Someone here claims that if you disable the VG-99 "Advanced Mode" USB Audio, then VG-99 can connect  to iPad using an Apple USB Camera Adapter. This needs more exploration.

It works. But I am not sure what the sample rate and bit resolution are. I get a lot of digital noise in JamUp. Also the guitar sounds very compressed. Maybe my level out of the vg99 is too low, though it seems fine in Bias. I am not sure if I can check my input level in JamUp.

With the standard driver there is no Midi and that's a real shame. I will check out wireless Midi options, but both my Macbook and my ipad 2 do no support the new midi-over-bluetooth app.
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2013, 06:13:11 PM »

I've never experienced anything like digital noise in JamUp.  However, when you export an amp from BIAS to JamUp, there is a noticeable drop in level.  I'm not really sure what causes that.  I have not found a way to adjust or monitor input level in JU like you can in BIAS - only output.

I did have some success (and fun) with the combo of BIAS/JamUp, and the GR-55 today.

I tried the GR-55's guitar out and the GR-55's normal line out (mono) into the Apogee Jam interface.  With the guitar out, I really had to turn up the level of the COSM sounds source more than normal.  Usually 50 seems fine, I pushed it up into the 80s.  And then I also got the regular, expected GR-55 guitar out port noise on higher gain amps.

Hooking it up with the normal line out was better.  No noise.  And of course the bonus of being able to do something like put one of the 55s distortion pedals into the signal chain.  Only downside is this would really limit the ability to use the 55 for its own things, in a live situation. 

For that the guitar out seems most appropriate.  JamUp and BIAS both have noise gates so it should be doable.  Still need to try this with the Alesis IO Dock which is what's been going on stage with me lately.  Hopefully it will work with the iPad Air even though the case might not fit it perfectly.  Wonder if anyone's coming out with a musical dock for this model.  Thought I heard Behringer was going to make one with a lightning connector though I'm not sure they ever did...
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 06:22:58 PM by SuperNiCd »
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2013, 07:45:34 AM »

Explored possible causes of digital noise. Attached an example. Checked out ampkit on my ipad and found my input level to be very low. Ampkit did not have any digital distortion though. Running through a preamp improved digital noise a lot, but it is still not completely gone.

I think JamUp is switching input levels automatically. There is also some form of compression going on. You can hear noise levels coming up when you let a chord ring until it dies out.

Reverb tails are fine though, so it must be something in the (virtual) input circuitry.

Anyone willing to check this out: let a chord ring out on different levels.  I have used the Tweed Lux model of Bias in JamUp without a Noise gate. Do you also hear Noise levels come up when the chord rings out and if you lower your input level on the guitar, can you replicate the digital noise?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 08:04:19 AM by sixeight »
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2013, 08:20:46 AM »

Oh, that's pretty nasty. I'll see if I can reproduce.
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2013, 09:20:29 AM »

Here's the setup tested.  Strat with GK-3 to GR-55 with 13 pin cable.  GR-55 left output to Apogee Jam--> 30/lightning adapter-->iPad.  Sadly, it appears the Alesis IO Dock does not work at all with the iPad Air (or does not work with iOS 7, not sure which).

Created amp in BIAS (Tweed Lux).  Pulled gain down to 5, did not change anything else.  Exported to JamUp, no additional effects in the JamUp chain.  Added JamUp to Audiobus input slot, added Auria to Audiobus output slot to record (nothing in Audiobus effect slot).

GR-55 set up to output COSM guitar only (Strat H&H model, rear P/U, vol 100, tone 100, level 50, GR-55 main volume knob at 12 o'clock.

Result:
https://soundcloud.com/supernicd/sounds-from-sunday-morning/s-T7Yau

[PS - is there any way to embed a Soundcloud widget on this forum?]
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2013, 10:27:30 AM »

Thanks for testing. Your recording is definately cleaner than mine. I will explore some other options. I have an old Terratec Phase 26 lying around at work that might be class compliant. If it is, it will fix a lot of problems...

Also I am looking at the iconnectmidi 2+, but it is not available yet in Europe...
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 12:19:23 PM by sixeight »
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2013, 10:30:10 AM »

Another take, same basic setup as above.  Reduced the GR-55 COSM guitar volume to 69.  Boosted up the gain on the Tweed Lux model, and the master just a touch.  Rolled off a bit of treble.

https://soundcloud.com/supernicd/jamup-bias-and-gr-55-take-2/s-kynjK

I don't hear what I'm hearing in the track you uploaded, neither digital noise, and I don't think I hear the compression effect either.  Do you?  There is a little bit of noise floor coming from somewhere that you can hear and see in the Soundcloud graphic render, but it just sounds like slight analog hiss.

Good luck!
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2013, 11:07:15 AM »

By the way, the Pitch Shifter effect in JamUp seems to be on sale for free today.
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Elantric

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2013, 11:41:42 AM »

Quote
Also I am looking at the iconnectmidi 2+, but it is not available yet in Europe

If you look at the specs it's revealed the iConnectmidi 4+ does a whole lot more, and includes a USB Host port that allows your Korg nanokontrollers or fishman triple play to drive all your 5pin MIDI hardware or Ipad IOS music apps. It's still not released yet but worth waiting for.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9050.msg65107#msg65107

But realize no iConnectMIDI box will solve your distortion in Bias/JamUp Pro. It's not an audio interface.
Quote
Explored possible causes of digital noise. Attached an example. Checked out ampkit on my ipad and found my input level to be very low. Ampkit did not have any digital distortion though. Running through a preamp improved digital noise a lot, but it is still not completely gone.

I think JamUp is switching input levels automatically. There is also some form of compression going on. You can hear noise levels coming up when you let a chord ring until it dies out.

Reverb tails are fine though, so it must be something in the (virtual) input circuitry.

Anyone willing to check this out: let a chord ring out on different levels.  I have used the Tweed Lux model of Bias in JamUp without a Noise gate. Do you also hear Noise levels come up when the chord rings out and if you lower your input level on the guitar, can you replicate the digital noise?

Yikes. That underlying fizz and distortion that rises upon note decay sounds really bad.
  What is your specific Audio signal path ithat is feeding your IPad?

Is this GK3 guitar>VG99> Behringer guitar interface>Apple CCK> IPad?

Or
Is this GK3 guitar>VG99 In Standard USB Audio mode> USB Powered Hub>Apple CCK> IPad?

Just want the details , so others avoid that mess.

FWIW
My Bias/JamUp Pro tones match what SuperNiCd posted here

https://soundcloud.com/supernicd/sounds-from-sunday-morning/s-T7Yau



 
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 12:18:42 PM by Elantric »
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2013, 02:06:11 PM »

My path for the recording was my Charvel guitar straight into the Behringer interface - apple camera kit - ipad 2. It improved when I boosted the signal, but still there is a lot of hiss. I left my VG99 in church this afternoon, so I could not test with it.

With the iconnectmidi 2 you can route audio to and from the ipad. Main reason I want it is to use some ipad synths in Cubase. But maybe I will come up with some more options...
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 10:31:55 AM by sixeight »
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Elantric

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2013, 04:17:49 PM »

Quote
into the Behringer interface - apple camera kit -

I assume this one??

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-guitar-link-ucg102-usb-interface


--

I use my guitar straight into IK Multimedia iRig Pro


Review IK Multimedia iRig Pro 24 bit audio interface.

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8291.msg71256#msg71256
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 04:24:36 PM by Elantric »
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2013, 01:44:05 PM »

I assume this one?

No worse than that: uca 200.

But I get similar results with the VG99.

I tried to get the terratec phase26 going, but it has power problems, even with an external power supply attached. And I do not have a powered hub...
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2013, 02:27:56 PM »

But I get similar results with the VG99.

Apologies if these are "duh" type suggestions but have you tried the normal iOS troubleshooting stuff:
  • Double click the home button and force stop all apps
  • Hold down the home button and the top button simultaneously to reset the device
  • Probably a long shot, but delete the app and re install it from the app store

Just thinking that if you are experiencing this with more than one audio adapter, then maybe the problem is something else.
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #90 on: November 26, 2013, 12:18:34 PM »

Supernicd, I have tried all the options you suggested but it has made no difference.

I think the problem is the 16 bit interface. Both the VG99 in standard mode and the Behringer I used are 16 bit interfaces. The distortion you hear is literally the last bit of the audio signal going from 1 to 0.

If you switch the VG99 to advanced mode it is 24 bits, but the ipad does not recognise it anymore. To fix the problem I will need a 24 bit interface.

I think we can conclude that 16 bit interfaces are no good with JamUp/Bias.
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Elantric

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2013, 12:39:56 PM »

Quote
I think we can conclude that 16 bit interfaces are no good with JamUp/Bias.


I think its fair to add that not all 16 bit interfaces exhibit the severe "fizz" on note decay that you posted.

For example my Sonuus I2M is also 16 bit, but definitely is usable, with none of the "trail of fizz" as heard here:
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9903.0;attach=8228 

But its true  - the best solution is a quality low noise Hi-z Guitar / Instrument Preamp coupled to a modern 24 bit A/D convertor driving a USB Audio class compliant interface that passes audio at 24 bits @ 44.1kHz - for iPad compatibility. 
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 12:43:06 PM by Elantric »
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Derek Buddemeyer

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2013, 08:18:22 AM »

After working for Positive Grid for years...I can say they've got a solid product here.  Even though our paths have split...I still have to admit, they have some great stuff.  Here's a vid on how you can customize your own amp and integrate your tone into JamUp.  http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_NOquxLc_8
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2013, 10:36:28 AM »

Hi Derek,
In what way are you involved with Positive grid?
Any chance well see a plugin version of Bias for Mac soon?
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drbill

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2013, 11:33:06 AM »

Any chance well see a plugin version of Bias for Mac soon?

I'm very interested in this, too. I emailed PG to ask about this, but never got an answer.
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Derek Buddemeyer

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2013, 11:59:04 AM »

Hi Derek,
In what way are you involved with Positive grid?
Any chance well see a plugin version of Bias for Mac soon?
I started working alongside PG since the pre-release days of the original JamUp (a free version with 1 amp and just 5 or 6 effects).  I mainly tested amps and effects...gave my input on what they should sound like, how they should react, etc.  I did some marketing, artist relations, offered my services as a tech rep for users, tutorial videos, and the occasional self promoting vids of me using the product :) I am no longer representing the company these days so I really can't comment on future releases, but I thought some videos might help out....because at the end of the day, I'm still a guitarist! Feel free to check out my YouTube channel...there might be something of interest there as well. http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCh_7JPxuovp8IUpYKj5SWIw
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 12:00:38 PM by Derek Buddemeyer »
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SuperNiCd

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2013, 12:20:10 PM »

Welcome Derek.  I know your name from some other places. :)  Great community here, and it'll be great to have you be part of it.
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2013, 01:09:18 PM »

I'm very interested in this, too. I emailed PG to ask about this, but never got an answer.

I also send them a support message requesting it. Maybe more of us should do it. It might wake them up. I think many people who are into recording would be interested using Bias inside their DAWs.
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sixeight

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #98 on: December 03, 2013, 12:16:49 PM »

Finally managed to get a powered hub and resurected my old Terratec Phase 26. 24 bit audio from the VG99s digital output.  8)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 12:26:22 PM by sixeight »
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admsustainiac

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Re: Positive Grid Bias Amp Designer, Modeler and Processor
« Reply #99 on: December 03, 2013, 12:25:09 PM »

Quote
Finally managed to get a powered hub and resurected my old Terratec Phase 26. 24 bit audio from the VG99s digital output.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb04/articles/terratecphase.htm

I'm rather surprised that a USB Audio Interface from 2004 supports "USB Class Compliant Audio" - required for use with IOS iPads and Iphones via Apple CCK.
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.audio.devel/5628

I assume you now have "fizz free" audio from VG-99 driving  Bias / Jamup ProXT ?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 12:27:57 PM by admsustainiac »
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