FTP directly into Hardware

Started by FreeTime, September 06, 2013, 11:56:20 PM

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FreeTime

Is there a simple way to connect the FTP to a hardware synth with MIDI ? I'm going to pick up an old Korg M1 rackmount tomorrow and would love to use it with the FTP. Something simple, USB host to MIDI out. I'd prefer not to put a laptop into the rack I'm building, its just asking for trouble with crashes, hard-drives that don't like being bumped etc. The Iconnect4 is overkill in both function and price, the original Iconnect would be good except they are no longer made.

superawesomegreat

#1
You can try one of these...

http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml

I think Fishman actually recommended this product for the FTP, but I can't track down the reference at the moment.

I guess you could try to search for other "midi usb hosts" - that seems to be what these things are called, but maybe the iPad users here know of a better option.

edit

The bottom of page 14 of the FTP manual here...

http://www.fishman.com/software/tripleplay/download/tripleplay_user_guide.pdf

is where the Kenton thing is referenced.

Elantric

#2
For using TriplePlay with hardware Synths I use an original black iConnectMIDI box.

Currently driving a Korg MicroStation or 2007 Roland Juno G.

No computer required.

FreeTime

I think that Kenton unit costs around $150 on this side of the pond, and sadly the iConnect has been discontinued, the new 'simple' one doesnt have USB host on it anymore according to the pictures.

Maybe something homebrew like a microcontroller, just so long as its as reliable as the rest of the gear. With a microcontroller you'd also get midi hold and arpeggiator ... but there I go dreaming again lol, I just want a simple, inexpensive box to plug in.

Spider

#4
Simply: Arduino board Uno (or clone of it) plus USB Host shield some wires and one or two MIDI 5 DIN inputs. Ca. 40-60 USD. I asked author of USBH_MIDI library https://github.com/YuuichiAkagawa/USBH_MIDI and newest version works properly with Pitch Band and has implemented MIDI In (to host: see this [url=https://github.com/YuuichiAkagawa/USBH_MIDI/tree/IOP_ArduinoMIDI]https://github.com/YuuichiAkagawa/USBH_MIDI/tree/IOP_ArduinoMIDI[/url]) too.




Elantric

#5
We have a prior DIY thread here - which i believe cover your same hardware

Care to post the BIN files to make this Arduino based  USB Host to MIDI adapter work?

====
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4153.msg28086#msg28086

Or build a "USB to "Old School" MIDI interface" and swap out the Kenton MIDI USB Host

This would open up the doors for controlling VG-99, GR-55 using many USB MIDI controllers, like these.



Details on building your own "USB to "Old School" MIDI interface" with an Arduino Single board computer is here:

http://www.circuitsathome.com/mcu/interfacing-midi-devices-with-arduino-using-usb-host-shield

Another popular USB peripheral code for USB Host Shield has been implemented! Collin Cunningham from Collin's Lab @ MAKE found a neat way of interfacing USB MIDI devices with Arduino. The video above demonstrates using Akai LPK25 keyboard and USB video game guitar to play music on Arduino. Quoting Collin, his setup is "USB MIDI to old-school MIDI converter".

Make sure to check out Collin's code – it's one-piece sketch, short, clean and easy to understand. It is Richard Ibbotson's PS3 code, re-purposed to parse MIDI data. While not a textbook implementation of USB MIDI, Collin's code can be used to talk to MIDI keyboards, guitars, and consoles, to name a few. Good job, Collin!



Spider

Generally this library is based on Collin's Lab solution but it is much much simpler. You don't need to know any USB device descriptors etc. Yuuichi's Akagawa library is simple as possible = plug and play. And newest version is bidirectional so no problem to send MIDI messages to MIDI USB host. I've tested it yesterday and it looks like it works without problem CC/PC/midi clock. Only missing thing at this moment is USB MIDI Host/MIDI 5 DIN to computer USB.

All needed files for this project are on Github (links above).

FreeTime

Thanks for the input, seems this is the way to go since I really want MIDI hold, also the FC300 CC# limit can be translated with this. Spider, did you notice any latency with this ? It would be a shame to lose that great tracking by adding too much programming, but just off the top of my head I'd like to add Hold, MIDI compression, Channel re-mapping and Octave switching.

Spider

I use FTP mainly with Arduino USB MIDI host and I am very happy. I tried CC#66 /sustain pedal/ with FTP boot in hardware mode and it... works:) The same with PC.

superawesomegreat

#9
this might work if you can power it with a usb-b cable hooked up to an ac adapter...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIDIExpand/

(Keith McMillen Instruments MIDI Expander)

at $45 it might be worth a go for those that have no idea what Arduino even means!

Elantric

#10
I confirmed KMI MIDI Expander does Not work as a USB Host to MIDI adapter for Fishman TriplePlay.

Spider

Quote from: superawesomegreat on September 17, 2013, 08:34:33 PM
this might work if you can power it with a usb-b cable hooked up to an ac adapter...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIDIExpand/

(Keith McMillen Instruments MIDI Expander)

at $45 it might be worth a go for those that have no idea what Arduino even means!

You need basic soldering skills and Arduino board (for example: http://www.adafruit.com/products/50 but you can use cheaper equivalent) + Arduino USB Host board (for example http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/arduino-shields/usb-host-shield-2-0-for-arduino) and sketch from github for load to Arduino.

utensil

#12
Hi Spider

Any chance you could post a short DIY how to for those of us with the soldering skills but not up to speed on arduino? I know I definitely would appreciate if you got a chance.

For the arduino code you mentioned using USBH_MIDI , did you have to modify it or did the code work as is ?

Also for what aspect do you need to use sketch from github ?

I think your solution is probably much more portable than using the Kenton or I connect midi.


Spider

#13
OK. I prepare some tutorial during next couple of days. Any way... you can do Arduino even on paper but in this case is... PAPERduino.

bob4u



cruisemates

 I have the Kenton USB midi host and I am using it to drive a Yahama Motif. I was lucky enough to find the first generation Motif on eBay priced at just over $300.

This is a GREAT unit for hardware usage with the FTP. There is almost no latency at all, and even better, when you change sounds via the up/down buttons on your controller the program changes are displayed on the Motif hardware window - so I actually always know what patch I am in.

The Motif has an area where you can create and save user settings in sequence - and if you navigate there you can easily put all of your sounds in the correct order for a gig. The only drawback is that I don't yet see a way to get the Motif to boot up in that setting.

I have not been starting the FTP with the top button pressed. I just turn it on. I find that the left and right controller buttons will switch me between chromatic and legato (slide) settings in any patch - but it takes a number of pressing before you get there. I hope more people follow this lead so we can start a thread just for people using the Motif. So far it better than I expected to get out of any sound module.

Elantric

QuoteI have not been starting the FTP with the top button pressed. I just turn it on. I find that the left and right controller buttons will switch me between chromatic and legato (slide) settings in any patch - but it takes a number of pressing before you get there. I hope more people follow this lead so we can start a thread just for people using the Motif. So far it better than I expected to get out of any sound module.

I use this same FTP strategy when controlling IOS Synths on my iPad with similar results. I do not hold any FTP buttons down on power up, nor use FTP "hardware mode". 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.msg60207#msg60207


NyteOwl

Am I on the right track here..?

I've been using Roland synths on stage for years and would like to get away from the 13-pin cable.  If I understand what I'm reading in this thread correctly, I should be able to drive my GR-33 with a Tripleplay by connecting the Tripleplay receiver to my iConnect MIDI and running a MIDI cable from the iConnect to the MIDI In on my GR-33, yes?  Right now I'm primarily concerned with live use as opposed to recording, and I'm changing GR-33 presets with a Rocktron All Access, so all I'm really looking for is the faster tracking and, if possible, the occasional split.

Also, am I correct in thinking I will need to install the FTP software on a computer to calibrate the string sensitivity and other settings, etc., but after that I'd be good to go?


Elantric

Quote
I've been using Roland synths on stage for years and would like to get away from the 13-pin cable.  If I understand what I'm reading in this thread correctly, I should be able to drive my GR-33 with a Tripleplay by connecting the Tripleplay receiver to my iConnect MIDI and running a MIDI cable from the iConnect to the MIDI In on my GR-33, yes?  Right now I'm primarily concerned with live use as opposed to recording, and I'm changing GR-33 presets with a Rocktron All Access, so all I'm really looking for is the faster tracking and, if possible, the occasional split.

Also, am I correct in thinking I will need to install the FTP software on a computer to calibrate the string sensitivity and other settings, etc., but after that I'd be good to go?


Correct on all issues.

merman93

#20
The Disaster Area Designs "gHOST" USB Host to MIDI converter will be another option to connect your FTP to 5 pin midi gear without a computer, ( the other option being iconnectmidi).


In the past, Disaster Area Designs have released firmware revisions/updates for specific gear to utilize unique functions, and I expect a version of the gHOST may follow for FTP users to utilize patch changes , poly/ mono modes, and/or volume data.

Following is from their FaceBook posting;

You can change presets and triggers your synths right from the guitar, no computer required. You can even send the hold command from your existing MIDI foot controller.

The gHOST Converter converts most USB MIDI devices into standard 5-pin devices without a computer or iPad. We should have these available towards the end of Summer. #pedaldisaster #ghostconverter #usb #midi



Demo of the new gHOST Converter from Disaster Area Designs.

The gHOST Converter is a compact and robust USB Host interface. The gHOST Converter connects to most class-compliant USB MIDI devices and converts their MIDI input and output to standard 5-pin MIDI.

Features:
Supplies up to 500mA power to USB Device
MIDI input
MIDI output with full software merge / thru
Compact and durable cast-aluminum enclosure
USB Host MIDI interface
USB interface is fully bi-directional

Connect your Zoom MultiStomp, G3, B3, B5 to your existing MIDI controller for expanded switching capability.

Connect your USB-only MIDI controller keyboard to your 5-pin MIDI gear without a computer.

Connect your Fishman Triple Play guitar pickup to your Roland or other MIDI synths.
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

mbenigni

Has D.A. made any mention of a targeted price for the gHost adaptor?  I'm wondering if it would make some of my USB-only controllers (e.g. Line6 FBV express, Korg Nanocontrol, etc.) useful with my 5-pin gear (GR55, KPA, etc.)

merman93

Quote from: mbenigni on June 11, 2014, 06:25:37 AM
Has D.A. made any mention of a targeted price for the gHost adaptor?  I'm wondering if it would make some of my USB-only controllers (e.g. Line6 FBV express, Korg Nanocontrol, etc.) useful with my 5-pin gear (GR55, KPA, etc.)

Not that I can find. The pricing on their other devices seem reasonable. I'll post if I hear more details.
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

Elantric

#23
For those who solder - its about $45 to "roll your own" USB Host to MIDI adapter

Quote
You need basic soldering skills and Arduino board (for example: http://www.adafruit.com/products/50 but you can use cheaper equivalent) + Arduino USB Host board (for example http://www.circuitsathome.com/products-page/arduino-shields/usb-host-shield-2-0-for-arduino) and sketch from github for load to Arduino.



Or if you have an iPad - you can use a Powered USB Hub and and IOS app called MIDIBridge to act as USB Host to MIDi converter

MIDI Bridge app: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/midibridge/id449160859?mt=8


http://www.circuitsathome.com/?s=midi

Spider

#24
Collin's Lab was first as I know Arduino USB Host to MIDI but just now is outdated. So use my manual and program by YuuichiAkagawa.

DIY USB MIDI Host to MIDI - Use FTP without computer
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9681.msg69488#msg69488