Graph Tech GHOST Floyd Rose

[clamhands]

Congratulations!

Question?

If you feed the 13 pin cable to the VG-99, and press your trem bar all the way down (dive bomb) at what point does the sound cut out?

 as the strings become so  loose that zero downward pressure exists on the piezo saddles.

I haven't had the sound cut out during divebombs in any of my casual playing to date (I'll try to intentionally make this happen the next time I play). 

I should point out that my installer and I made a deliberate decision to keep the spring tension *very tight* on the Floyd for the first set up in hopes that we could minimize (and more easily identify) any initial Hexpander tracking problems.  The next time I get the guitar set up, I'm definately going to try the Floyd with a lower "floaty" spring tension.

[clamhands]

I have indeed made up my mind and I think I will build a custom axe with a floyd (as I have two lying around) and purchase a GK-Kit, as expensive as they are.

Let coupons, sales, and in store haggling be your friends .  January and February are usually two of the worst months for retailers.  I have more than one screaming deal sitting in my home studio that I've gotten by walking into evil-big-music-retail-chain on the last day of a particulaily bad month and offering a 30-40% discount from the sticker to the store manager.  Besides...you have yet to see expensive.  I'm embarassed to admit what I spent on my LB63 + modifications + labor, but when all was said and done I think I probably spent almost 3X what I spent for the original guitar.

[A to the T]

the cheapest place I've found for the GK-Kit is musiciansfriend for $229 but the search is still on.

[aliensporebomb]

Have you tried the music store that does the group buy for the VG99 group here?

[A to the T]

no. good point, I'll check them out. thanx

[cynegetic]

Did you get to try the dive bomb thing? I too am curious about that.

[Elantric]

In my experience, I was attempting to play Jeff Beck style Harmonics, on the "G" string, but it was impossible because the sound would completely cut out when using the whammy bar to lower the pitch more than 3 whole steps.  Various other strings would "drop out" along the way too, by simply pushing the whammy bar down.
Its simple physics -

No string pressure on the piezo Saddle = no sound.

[clamhands]

Did you get to try the dive bomb thing? I too am curious about that.

Ok...tried the dive bomb thing.  I think the question I'm being asked is "does the piezo output remain solidly consistent up to the point where the a string hops out of the saddle or does the sound start to cut out when the string is still in the saddle (where the string tension is "really floppy")?  The answer is that the piezo output starts to cut out when the string is still in the saddle.  With my current set up, there's only a fraction or two of an inch travel between the point where the sound cuts off and the point where the string hops out of the saddle.  I have to be moving the bar very slowly and purposefully to find this point, but I *can* do it and I see this being a problem if I used the trem more aggressively than I do.

Here's what I just tried (repeating about 10X):

* Turned on the VG-99's tuner in single string mode and made sure I was in tune.
* Hit an open low e and dove the trem until the strings just started to buzz against the frets...The tuner consistently thought this pitch was an A.
* Hit the open low e again and very slowly dove until the string "hopped" out of the saddle...The tuner flickered a lot here and appeared more to be "guessing" the pitch but it consistently displayed a C or C# right about the point where the sound started to cut in and out.  Again- there's a ton of objectionable string buzz going on at this point and with my set up it takes only a slight movement at this point before the string totally hops out of the saddle.

Did I answer the right question?

[cynegetic]

That's what it does on the ibby double edge too. I thought maybe the would have designed that out of it. Maybe by having the piezo contact angled back and closer to the pinch point of the lock so it retains contact longer. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a floyd if you can't go crazy on it . Oh well ;(

[aliensporebomb]

This only effects the Ghost and not the GK3 users I take it?

[vanceg]

This only effects the Ghost and not the GK3 users I take it?

Well, sure: The GK-3 doesn't care what the pressure of the strings on the saddles is.  I have had times when I've dive-bombed so far on my guitar that has a floyd and GK-3 that the strings stick to the GK-3...but they are pretty much completely slack by that point anyway (WAAAAAAY more than a third down, more like an octave and a half). 

Generally, NO, this "sound cuts out when I do 'dive bomb' whammy bar work" issue does not present itself when using a GK-3 (or 2).

Vance

[Meltdown]

The GK3(2) route is still the way to go when using a whammy imho

[clamhands]

In my case the only string that I've been able to get to cut out on my Graphtech bridge had been the low E.  The E cuts out after bending over an octave downward and seems to be because the string physically falls out of the saddle.  Again, the string is usually so floppy and has made enough contact with the frets at this point that there's very little musically useful happening anymore. All of the other strings in my bridge stay in their saddles and produce consistent output all the way through the downward bend range.  And again,  it requires a movement of only a millimeter or two between the point where the sound cuts out and the point where the string slips out of the bridge.

[vanceg]

This is great news to hear.  I understand (but don't know for sure)  that Moog did some modifications to the Graphtech equipped bridge to help it maintain more consistent contact with the strings...perhaps this same general approach was taken on the Floyd.  PURE speculation here... but what I'm getting at is perhaps the more recently designed Graphtech products have solved some of the older, inherent shortcomings of Piezo bridges that we bring up here.... that would be nice.

[vanceg]

This is somewhat tangential to this topic but I thought it might be useful as it IS related.

I received my Moog E1-M guitar recently. This is essentially a Moog E1 with a  Hexpander system installed. The tremolo that the E1 uses is not my favorite.  The tremolo they use is a Wilkinson - and it's really a high-end nice version of a tremolo that you'd find on a strat. (I don't like it one bit because I can't do much in the way of upward bends and it's WAY to stiff for me. I like Floyds or, even better, Steinberger trems which feel SUPER smooth and easy to move.  But I'm willing to give that up (perhaps) for the sustain system that is built into the Moog. )  The Wilkinson seems to be a great piece of gear, I just don't care for the way it works and feels. 

BUT TO THE POINT HERE:  I have tested it with many "dive bomb" moves, running the signal through the VG-99, and the sound does not drop out at all, even if I dive bomb all the way down so the strings are as slack as they can be with this model of tremolo.  Moog may have done something to ensure that the strings stay in contact with the bridge pieces, but I haven't taken the instrument apart to look...and I wouldn't know if this was a Moog mod, or something the Graphtech or Wilkinson do even when this item is sold for use on other instruments.

If there are those of you out there who really like the Wilkinson Strat type tremolo systems and are considering a Graphtech system to use with it, this might be important information for you.

I wish I could swap the Wilkinson out for a Floyd on my Moog, but this would require some significant routing and MAN OH MAN would I be bummed out to have damaged such an expensive instrument if the Floyd somehow interfered with the function of the Moog electronics.... too big a risk for me.....

Congratulations!

Question?

If you feed the 13 pin cable to the VG-99, and press your trem bar all the way down (dive bomb) at what point does the sound cut out?

 as the strings become so  loose that zero downward pressure exists on the piezo saddles.