Antares ATG-1 DSP Guitar Modeler / Alt Tune / AutoTune

Started by Elantric, November 05, 2012, 10:20:40 PM

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greekjgg

I think they are this year actually. I got a notification that I could sign up to meet with them should I attend. Would love to go to one of these shows one day but I'm in Ohio and no other reason to go out that way.
Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60

Elantric

#51
Here I am at the Antares NAMM demo room playing an a Rick Toone custom ergo guitar owned by Dr. Steve Sjuggerud
http://www.ricktoone.com/2014/02/namm-2014-field-report.html



More Details here:
http://www.ricktoone.com/





QuoteI was commissioned to design & build this instrument for demonstration of Antares Auto-Tune for Guitar technology. The guitar will be on public display at the Antares 2014 NAMM booth in the convention center.

I could not resist the exciting opportunity to explore emerging technology...this will be the first multi-scale implementation.

Steve Sjuggerud brilliantly devised methods of exploiting the computer controlled note processing for composing and performance. Imagine the capabilities of Ned Steinberger's TransTrem — but nearly limitless, and processor based, rather than mechanical. Essentially you can change tunings, modulate keys, or perform pitch bends during real time performance.


I was very pleased with the Antares DSP AutoTune for guitar system I demoed at 2014 Winter NAMM.  They had an iPad running MIDI Designer and the Antares Autotune control template,


and i observed the following.

* Flawless real time string bending, mapable to a MIDI CC# controller - so a DSP "B" Bender function is very possible.

* Very fast DSP Guitar model changes, with very minimal tone change time, no pops, extremely short (under 50ms) audio gap during any tone transition.
* Good Guitar pickup modeling, Good DSP Alt Tunings.

The thrust of Antares Autotune DSP system presentation revolved around how the Autotune System is always analyzing the notes being played and will apply real time pitch corrections to allow several different chord inversions to all play "in-tune" up and down the guitar neck - this is something which frankly is impossible to achieve with a normal stringed instrument. Most guitarists who own several instruments and have played along with keyboard players understand that playing guitar means to choose your chord intervals carefully because some guitars play these chord intervals more in-tune than others - based upon many factors  - including Nut height, Nut location, Fret location, scale length, string type , etc. 
I hope to provide more info for Antares so they can deliver products that many guitarists who read our forum can use               

datsunrobbie

I'm still torn as to whether the auto-tuning is a good thing or not. Certainly good in that it is another effect that can be used to get the sounds in your head out to the world. I just hope that it does not have the same effect that autotune for vocals has had on so many recordings in recent years. There is something to be said for the occasional missed note, or the difference that playing a chord at different intervals can make. Being able to hear the click when switching from lead to rhythm on a Les Paul, or a note that's a little "off" because the player bent the string, are things that make recorded interesting. Sometimes "perfect" is TOO perfect.

greekjgg

Quote from: Elantric on January 27, 2014, 11:54:15 AM
Here I am at the Antares NAMM demo room playing an a Rick Toone custom ergo guitar owned by Dr. Steve Sjuggerud


More Details here:
http://www.ricktoone.com/






I was very pleased with the Antares DSP AutoTune for guitar system I demoed at 2014 Winter NAMM.  They had an iPad running MIDI Designer and the Antares Autotune control template, and i observed the following.

* Flawless real time string bending, mapable to a MIDI CC# controller - so a DSP "B" Bender function is very possible.

* Very fast DSP Guitar model changes, with very minimal tone change time, no pops, extremely short (under 50ms) audio gap during any tone transition.
* Good Guitar pickup modeling, Good DSP Alt Tunings.

The thrust of Antares Autotune DSP system presentation revolved around how the Autotune System is always analyzing the notes being played and will apply real time pitch corrections to allow several different chord inversions to all play "in-tune" up and down the guitar neck - this is something which frankly is impossible to achieve with a normal stringed instrument. Most guitarists who own several instruments and have played along with keyboard players understand that playing guitar means to choose your chord intervals carefully because some guitars play these chord intervals more in-tune than others - based upon many factors  - including Nut height, Nut location, Fret location, scale length, string type , etc. 
I hope to provide more info for Antares so they can deliver products that many guitarists who read our forum can use             

Is the luthier kit that is offered now any "better" than the internals of the peavey units? Trying to figure out why the guts cost more than the guitar in this case? I know the Peavey still requires additional software to purchase as well.
Setup:
Homemade EVH Frankenstrat with built in GK3
GR55
Rocktron Talkbox
TC Helicon Voicetone C1
Tech 21 Power Engine 60

Elantric

#54
Agreed - My #1 item for feedback to Antares is  - be sure to have a fast  / reliable "take me back to stock guitar"  switch.

I had to remind a few folks that no matter how many FX pedals are used or Fernandes Sustainers are installed  - an Electric Guitar with DSP real time re-tuned Guitar strings will never sing or sustain as well as a normal Electric Guitar with strings that are manually tuned to a user defined specific frequency, and when this same  user defined string frequency is being amplified at high SPL and acoustically re-coupled back to the guitar - that is a naturally occurring situation and natural sustaining tone should occur for a live electric guitar. A DSP Retuned guitar will sound "dead and lifeless" by comparison, rather like playing a fretless guitar / bass whose natural resonance creates dead spots along the fretboard, that fight sustain.

I also explained my own strategy where i find the most value for a DSP retuned guitar - playing slide guitar, but unlike most, i will retune the real strings to open E tuning  - so I can play an easily sustaining Slide solo, then use the DSP "Alt Tuning"  feature on VG-99 / GR-55 to retune my guitar back to standard tuning  - so I can play chords / rhythm in DSP created standard tuning,  - then when its time for the slide solo  - I will kick off the DSP, and use my normal mag PU's for Slide  -  (maybe engage a compressor) and have singing sustain.         

Elantric

#55
QuoteIs the luthier kit that is offered now any "better" than the internals of the peavey units? Trying to figure out why the guts cost more than the guitar in this case? I know the Peavey still requires additional software to purchase as well

I was told the new Antares Luthier DSP board kit is much improved / faster / more memory, with more horsepower compared to Peavey AT-200 Antares DSP board.- and the Antares Luthier DSP board kit price already includes ALL the optional AT-200 Model packs.

Read all details here:
http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/products/products.php?category=Custom_Installation_Kits_7


and New owners manual
http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/mediafiles/online_help_records/49_ATG_Software_Feature_Pack_Manual.pdf

DeRigueur

Fender GC-1 -- Boss SY-1000 -- Alto TS112A

Elantric

#57
QuoteAny news on the floor model?

Summer 2014 - it will be worth the wait, as they finalize the jacks features and functions. I've assisted with some input, in an attempt to make Antares Floor Pedal a more open system that integrates well for owners of other 13 pin products   

Orren Merton

Quote from: Elantric on January 27, 2014, 01:19:20 PM
I also explained my own strategy where i find the most value for a DSP retuned guitar - playing slide guitar, but unlike most, i will retune the real strings to open E tuning  - so I can play an easily sustaining Slide solo, then use the DSP "Alt Tuning"  feature on VG-99 / GR-55 to retune my guitar back to standard tuning  - so I can play chords / rhythm in DSP created standard tuning,  - then when its time for the slide solo  - I will kick off the DSP, and use my normal mag PU's for Slide  -  (maybe engage a compressor) and have singing sustain.       

That sounds like an incredibly smart system when you're playing live!

Here's my main issue with Auto-Tune, GK and Variax alternate tuning, and anything that doesn't physically move the strings like the Tronical or AxCent Tuning systems (that's the bridge tuning system that Jimmy Page has used: http://axcenttuning.com/): at this point, nearly all my playing and recording is at conversational levels. So I can actually hear in the room the sound of both the acoustic string and the digital model. With a tuning system that physically moves the strings, the sound I hear though the amp/effects and the sound of the acoustic strings is the same. With any of these systems, when I use alternate tunings, I hear both the DSP affected tuning and the string, and it's confusing as hell (as well as cacophonous).

However, the last time I played live on stage, I used a VG-88, and in that case, I used a bunch of alternate tunings, models like the 12-string acoustic, and since I couldn't hear my acoustic strings over the stage volume, it was perfect.

Anyway, my point is this: I would say that the majority of buyers of guitar products play in their bedrooms, project studios, and small clubs. Gibson has nailed it with their partnership with Tronical, in that they've got even low priced SGs and LPs for hobbyists equipped with the Min-Etune system, which can be used anywhere from bedroom to stage. A DSP tuning/alt-tuning system will never win over the "bedroom brigade" because of the clash of the physical sound vs. DSP sound.

That said, guitar modeling still works well at soft levels, as long as your physical instrument is in tune.

Orren

whippinpost91850

Sounds Like it's worth waiting to check it out. Thanks for the report

BEADGC

Quote from: Elantric on January 13, 2014, 11:41:17 AM
Be sure to Contact Antares with your features request - at least they all here in the USA and speak English

Needless to say, we have gotten a lot of requests for being able to create custom tunings with the Auto-Tune for Guitar technology.  The possibility of adding this as a future feature is currently being evaluated.  Please stay tuned!

Elantric is correct, we are in the US and speak English.  One of us (that would be me!) does also speak Swedish, should this be your preferred language.

BEADGC

#61
Quote from: greekjgg on January 27, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
Is the luthier kit that is offered now any "better" than the internals of the peavey units? Trying to figure out why the guts cost more than the guitar in this case? I know the Peavey still requires additional software to purchase as well.

Quote from: Elantric on January 27, 2014, 01:24:44 PM
I was told the new Antares Luthier DSP board kit is much improved / faster / more memory, with more horsepower compared to Peavey AT-200 Antares DSP board.- and the Antares Luthier DSP board kit price already includes ALL the optional AT-200 Model packs.

Read all details here:
http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/products/products.php?category=Custom_Installation_Kits_7


and New owners manual
http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/mediafiles/online_help_records/49_ATG_Software_Feature_Pack_Manual.pdf


The Auto-Tune for Guitar Luthier Custom Luthier kit does differ from the Peavey AT-200 in several ways:

1.) The AT-200 comes stock with only the basic "String Tune" and "Solid Tune" functions vs. the "Complete Pack" (all current features) which is standard on the ATG Luthier Custom kit.  These features can of course be added to an AT-200 by purchasing the "Complete Pack" from our web store for $299.00.  For a complete list of features included in the "Complete Pack," please visit the following page on our website:

https://transactions.antarestech.com/atgconnect/GuitarProducts.aspx

2.) The electronics in the kit are redesigned from earlier versions of the Auto-Tune for Guitar technology.  Differences include:

   •   ATG DSP4 Circuit board – DSP circuit has been redesigned and upgraded, including high performance A/D and D/A converters for optimal sound quality.  The new circuit board also offers the option to add one or two encoders in order to control the various functions.  Previous versions of the ATG DSP board (including the Peavey AT-200 ATG DSP3) do not have this option.
   •   Magnetic Hexaphonic pickup – The ATG Kits include this type of pickup rather than piezo pickups which was used previously.  The hexaphonic pickup offers exceptional channel separation (compared to piezos) between strings.  Better channel separation will minimize the chance of artifacts between channels and much improved audio quality.  The hexaphonic pickup will also eliminate the possibility of noise and other artifacts when palm muting is part of the playing style.
   •   One or two encoders – These encoders are used to control all of the functions on the guitar instead of having to use an external MIDI controller or iPad.  This means that the user can switch from one function to another with a single click from on of the encoders.  Very useful for live playing to for example, change tunings instantly, switch from a Strat® sound to a Les Paul® sound, change presets, etc.

whippinpost91850

Thanks for the excellent explation of the Luthiers Kit features. Paul

BEADGC

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on February 15, 2014, 03:43:45 PM
Thanks for the excellent explation of the Luthiers Kit features. Paul

Thank you Paul.  Glad that the explanation was useful to you. 

-Henrik

Skyze

Hello, I'd like to ask some questions for you BEADGC.

1) So with the luthier installation kit you were talking about, can you replace your hexpander pickup with either a GK-3 or say the Graphtech GHOST Hexpander saddles/preamp? I know you would have to route in the other preamp and controls, but it'd be nice to have the minimal look of bridge saddle piezo's instead of a GK-3 like pickup sticking out.

2) Is there any plans for something for just the standard Roland GK-3/etc guitars in a floor pedal that is SMALLER? Right now, the current floor board looks to be at minimum, much larger than the Roland GR-55 (16" width) - It'd be great to see a smaller foot pedal with just two or three buttons (Intonation switch on, maybe a tuning change) - just for people who want to use the Intonation function like the AT-200, and not much more. Something about the size of a Liquid Foot Jr+ (6-10" width??)

3) If a smaller floor board is not possible, will the floor board be MIDI controllable so at least you could put it in a rack, and control it with just a small MIDI pedal on the floor? My floor board would be too big if I have to use the Antares floor board.

BEADGC

Quote from: Skyze on February 25, 2014, 10:19:27 AM
Hello, I'd like to ask some questions for you BEADGC.

1) So with the luthier installation kit you were talking about, can you replace your hexpander pickup with either a GK-3 or say the Graphtech GHOST Hexpander saddles/preamp? I know you would have to route in the other preamp and controls, but it'd be nice to have the minimal look of bridge saddle piezo's instead of a GK-3 like pickup sticking out.

2) Is there any plans for something for just the standard Roland GK-3/etc guitars in a floor pedal that is SMALLER? Right now, the current floor board looks to be at minimum, much larger than the Roland GR-55 (16" width) - It'd be great to see a smaller foot pedal with just two or three buttons (Intonation switch on, maybe a tuning change) - just for people who want to use the Intonation function like the AT-200, and not much more. Something about the size of a Liquid Foot Jr+ (6-10" width??)

3) If a smaller floor board is not possible, will the floor board be MIDI controllable so at least you could put it in a rack, and control it with just a small MIDI pedal on the floor? My floor board would be too big if I have to use the Antares floor board.

Hello Skyze,

Here are the answers to your questions:

1.) The new ATG DSP 4 board is set up for hexaphonic mag pickups only.  You could technically replace our pickup with a GK-3 hex pickup, however, this would give you a much lower input signal going to the circuitry.  The hex pickup included in the kits is a hotter pickup and is setup to match the input stage of the ATG DSP 4 board. 

Piezo pickups, like Graphtech, RMC, L.R. Baggs, etc., are not currently usable with the Auto-Tune for Guitar Luthier kit.  The decision to use a hexaphonic mag pickup (rather than piezos) was based upon the much better performance that hexaphonic pickups offer.  As mentioned previously: The hexaphonic pickup offers exceptional channel separation (compared to piezos) between strings.  Better channel separation will minimize the chance of artifacts between channels and much improved audio quality.  The hexaphonic pickup will also eliminate the possibility of noise and other artifacts when palm muting is part of the playing style.

2 and 3.)  At the moment there are no plans to do a smaller floor pedal version of the Auto-Tune for Guitar pedal.  This is an interesting question and it will certainly be mentioned to the developers here at Antares. FYI, the current floor board dimensions are approximately 19.5" (495mm) x 10" (250mm) x 3" (76mm).

Skyze

Thanks for the reply.

Do you forsee MIDI being available on the floorboard? So I could use another controller on the ground such as a Midi Mouse or Liquid Foot?

What type of price range do you estimate the floorboard will fall under?? Under $500 to over $1000 or??

BEADGC

Quote from: Skyze on February 25, 2014, 01:33:00 PM
Thanks for the reply.

Do you forsee MIDI being available on the floorboard? So I could use another controller on the ground such as a Midi Mouse or Liquid Foot?

What type of price range do you estimate the floorboard will fall under?? Under $500 to over $1000 or??

Hey Skyze,

Yes, you would be able to also use an additional external MIDI controller (Midi Mouse or Liquid Foot) with the foot pedal.  All of the functions of the pedal are going to be accessed through the switches and the expression pedal on the unit.  You could also control the pedal via MIDI the same way that the ATG Kits and AT-200 can be controlled via a MIDI floor pedal, iPad, or other MIDI device.  As long as you can program the unit to correspond to the MIDI CC messages that are needed to change the different parameters.  Please refer to the user manual to find out exactly what these MIDI CC numbers are:

http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/mediafiles/online_help_records/49_ATG_Software_Manual_v2.28.pdf

Am afraid that we are unable to provide any ATG floor pedal pricing information at this time.  Thank you for your patience!


Elantric

http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/mediafiles/online_help_records/49_ATG_Software_Manual_v2.28.pdf

I will add that this manual is important reading for anyone who wants to understand the Guitar better.

Dr Andy Hildebrand spells out how vibrating strings react with supporting engineering URL links - its a "must read" document even if you are not (currently) interested in the Antares Autotune system.


thebrushwithin

It seems like it would be possible for a future feature pack, to give the ability to assign scales, such as is accomplished by some software synthesis, where no "wrong" notes could be played, within a selected key (cheating, if you will, for the purists). Aside from soloing, it could present some exotic chording for a guitarist.

Elantric

QuoteIt seems like it would be possible for a future feature pack, to give the ability to assign scales, such as is accomplished by some software synthesis, where no "wrong" notes could be played, within a selected key (cheating, if you will, for the purists).


FWIW - thats a feature built into the You Rock
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6204.0

Elantric

#71
Hey - I'm mentioned on Luthier / Designer Rick Toone's Guitar Blog with a post by Steve Sjuggerud :)

http://www.ricktoone.com/2014/02/namm-2014-field-report.html

NAMM 2014 | Antares S2 Guitar Field Report

PHOTO: Steve Sjuggerud reports live from NAMM 2014 as George Lynch (Dokken) shows off the Antares S2. Cell phone screen capture. All photos courtesy Steve Sjuggerud.

Perhaps the best place to begin is...

Your guitar already has tuners, mounted on the headstock or the body. Turn the knob, adjust string tension, and the pitch changes until you have the note you want. Seems simple, right. If someone's not competent enough to tune their own instrument — maybe better to give up guitar. Become a singer, or drummer instead.

That perspective misses the point of Antares Auto-Tune for Guitar.

Let's start by imagining your 6-string electric guitar is tuned EADGBE, just like normal. Reach out and touch a button on your iPad and the computer inside your Antares S2 electronically transposes pitch so the guitar now plays in A minor tuning with the low E assuming a pitch of bass A.

No physical adjustments were made to the strings or mechanical string tuners. But your guitar now sounds like this...


AntaresS2


...touch the iPad screen again and your guitar reverts to EADGBE (or any other tuning you can imagine or program). Again, you have not touched your string tuners. You have not needed to change string gauges, or play a baritone/8-string, or adjust the string action, or intonation, etc.

Steve's beautiful original piece of music is just him playing a solo take over a drum click track. A real time performance on one instrument. No overdubs.

The track sounds so crisp. Hard to believe it's one guitar. The possibilities seem endless. What an inspiring piece of gear!

— Gabe Lopez

PHOTO: Dr. Andy (founder of Antares) looks on as Neil Swanson explores the Antares S2 guitar.


PHOTO: Steve Blucher (DiMarzio) refuses to surrender the Antares S2 as a bemused Henrik Bridger (Antares) wonders what will happen next.

Excited reports continue to arrive via email. Sjuggs cleanly dove headfirst into the warm waters of his first NAMM experience and the ripples are spreading...

Steve Sjuggs is one hell of a guy. He broke down the new guitar in full detail, and all I can say is WOW. There were multiple times throughout our conversation where I would just burst into laughter from excitement and disbelief. I feel like I got a glimpse into the future of guitar.

Steve and I had a great time together. He really inspired me. I would like to thank you for bringing us together and giving us a chance to connect. He is a passionate person and I could hear his love for music every time we spoke about it. Music was the topic of the night!

I really liked the feel of the Antares S2. It was the S2 that I love, but slightly different. Laura's designs were gorgeous. Such a unique instrument. Would you consider the guitar hollow body? Or is that arbitrary because the guitar doesn't actually use pickups? Even with Steve breaking down every aspect of the guitar, there's still so much to know! I want one... Haha!

You are full of surprises Rick! I've explained the technology to some of my close friends, and it's causing some serious excitement. I think you're onto something... Something revolutionary. I really mean that.

These last few months have been pure joy. Every time I talk about your guitar I'm filled with happiness and gratitude. Guitar playing hasn't been the same since the S2 proto arrived. It's a different physical and sonic experience that I can't be without. I've grown so close to your instrument and I feel the work you've put into it every time I pick it up. I'm in love!

Extremely excited to see what the future holds.

— Gabe Lopez

PHOTO: Ryan (Fractal Audio) watches the iPad intently as he plays. The screen offers instant control over every tuning, including the ability to control the overall key of the instrument as well as each individual string. A programmable foot pedal is currently in development.




PHOTO: Influential forum contributor and electrical engineer Steve Conrad evaluates the hardware/software interface. You can read his thoughts on the VGuitarForum Antares thread.

It is worthwhile noting the Antares S2 is the first-ever installation of AutoTune technology on a fanned-fret guitar. Implementation went extremely smoothly, with some tweaks required to the software to 'teach' the processor how to interpret strings that are multiple scale lengths.

As it turns out, the computer 'hears' the increased clarity of the multi-scale fretboard in much the same way the human ear does...

After everything got setup, the guitar looked and sounded fantastic. It is certainly one of the best sounding guitars that we have heard with the technology installed. Do believe that Steve would agree after hearing a bunch of the other ones that we had at NAMM.

— Henrik Bridger (Antares)

...and...

First impressions from his hotel room, the night before NAMM. Masi & I had completed the guitar the day prior and shipped via overnight delivery. The Antares S2 was waiting for Sjuggs when he arrived in LA from his flight. Played acoustically...

Plays great! In tune right out of the case.

Beautiful work (both of you!). Shockingly good sounding for an electric, I think. (nothing to compare to now)

Cool design! Easy disassembly.

It's not complicated to play...

— Sjuggs

PHOTO: Industry veteran guitar tech Thomas Nordegg appreciating the Antares S2. Thomas is an engineer and inventor when he is not on the road providing TLC for Steve Vai's machines.

ThomasNordegg
2014.02.06 in Custom Guitar, Gabe Lopez, S2 | Guitar, TOONE & TOWNSEND | Precision Tuning Systems | Permalink
COMMENTS

http://www.ricktoone.com/2014/02/namm-2014-field-report.html

drbill

Since they weren't at NAMM, if they're not at Musikmesse I'm assuming the "Summer 2014" ship date has slipped.
GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP

Elantric

QuoteSince they weren't at NAMM, if they're not at Musikmesse I'm assuming the "Summer 2014" ship date has slipped.

Actually they were at NAMM (read the post right above yours
here I am playing the Antares internal DSP board version Jan 2014 at NAMM




- And they intend to ship the Antares Floor Modeler later this year

drbill

GP-10, KPA
BM i2.13p, '76 Les Paul Deluxe w/GK-3, MiM RRS, Ibanez RG420GK, Charvel strat copy w/GK-2a, FTP