Topic: The poor misunderstood VG-99 (Read 9404 times)

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #25 on:** May 24, 2012, 07:48:33 PM »

Wayne:

Good point. Apparently the young metal player will eventually gravitate to synths in their minds. But maybe not. I tell my guitarist friends about it and they get a blank look on their faces.

Remember the video Gundy did about "studio sounds". That was impressive except the Marshall sound didn't quite have the same midrange character as the original one and my friends picked up on that immediately when they saw the video but they said it was otherwise impressive. I was like "but, that's like 2% of what that unit can do..." And who knows how long they worked on that Marshall patch. I bet they could have gotten closer with the parametrics.

And yes, I didn't really jump on the VG-99 until I saw the article in Premiere Guitar that basically indicated not one, but two GR-300 units were in the VG-99 which was the same unit I was so impressed with due to Bill's demos.

That was the straw that broke the wallet's back. In some ways, the hex full from my old GR100 was in there too so it was like several amazing things at once. And then a whole new world of sounds beyond that. The box said "the future of guitar" - well duh!

Great news on the ebay prices. Maybe we're a bit pessimistic about our wonder toy. But even as "dated" as it seems to be compared to all this stuff that's being advertised frequently: the VG-99 advertises itself with every demo out there. Maybe it's cool that it's "our secret". Selfish, yes, but....

tekrytor · « **Reply #26 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:04:37 PM »

Re: YouTube demographics and metal patches

Roland has always chased a younger missing market segment that generally cannot afford its VG/GR products with preset patches that don't appeal to either demographic. They seem to know what they want, but not really how to get it.

fuzzfactory · « **Reply #27 on:** May 26, 2012, 03:25:05 PM »

guitar players for the most part are lazy as hell and don't want to learn new things!
the vg-99 is deep sure but really it isn't THAT DEEP in fact it is pretty standard stuff if you are used to
working in the studio ( eventides, lexicons, etc )
but for most guitarist that is already way to much....hell basic stomp boxes intimidate them =)

that combined with roland not understanding how to market a product = the same ole roland trip.

remember this is the company that marketed the 303, 707, 808, 909 to GUITAR players so they could
be a "one man band" ....yeah that worked out really for them....but now we have several new genres of music because of those
boxes

roland needs to realize there is a whole wide world of music and musicans that really don't want to or care about sounding like
{insert big name band here} and want new and creative sounds
EH gets that like a mo and always have so does zvex

i love my vg but am really wanting a gr55 for more synth options
i will say it is nice when i play out cuz us vg users do have a secret weapon that blows minds

Elantric · « **Reply #28 on:** May 26, 2012, 03:35:58 PM »

Quote

roland needs to realize there is a whole wide world of music and musicans that really don't want to or care about sounding like
{insert big name band here} and want new and creative sounds
EH gets that like a mo and always have so does zvex

+1000

When I buy a new processor, Id rather have extremely deep routing and FX parameters control ranges that if set incorrectly could get you into deep trouble - rather like owning a Lamborghini V12 - you must know how to drive it.

I hate processors that feel digital, or act like there's some kind of internal factory restricter / governor algorithm - to keep you out of trouble -

I want to see factory patches with names like: "Eno / Lanois Octal Reverb#1" or "David Torn #3"

Instead the manufacturers all seem to think we all want: "Cliffs of Dover", "SRV", "EVH Brown", "Slash Sweet Child"

(. . . . . yawn)

I'm rebuilding my 1982 pedal board that has A/DA Flanger with remote foot controller to bypass the LFO for manual flanging, Ibanez pink AD80 analog delay, with whacky flying saucer sounds, Tube screamer,'68 Big Muff, DS-1, MXR Dyna-Comp, MXR 10-band EQ, Mutron Octave with Green ringer, TC Chorus, Rivera Buf iV and modified UniVox EC-80A Tape echo Echo and an old Korg Stage Echo -
I can borrow an Eventide H3000 for back end - and feed my '66 Vox AC-30 top boost and my Red knob Fender Twin and I discovered I'm suddenly a rather happy (but deaf) fellow for a change

fuzzfactory · « **Reply #29 on:** May 26, 2012, 04:19:47 PM »

my lord that pedal board / rig sounds like tone heaven i can only imagine the pure joy sucks to be you

Bill Ruppert · « **Reply #30 on:** May 26, 2012, 04:56:39 PM »

Fuzz you would do well with a GR- 55 and a VG-99.
Hope you get one, its right up your alley.
But it is a brain work out the way its layed out.
Probably great for keeping ones mind sharp...

Quote from: fuzzfactory on May 26, 2012, 03:25:05 PM

guitar players for the most part are lazy as hell and don't want to learn new things!
the vg-99 is deep sure but really it isn't THAT DEEP in fact it is pretty standard stuff if you are used to
working in the studio ( eventides, lexicons, etc )
but for most guitarist that is already way to much....hell basic stomp boxes intimidate them =)

that combined with roland not understanding how to market a product = the same ole roland trip.

remember this is the company that marketed the 303, 707, 808, 909 to GUITAR players so they could
be a "one man band" ....yeah that worked out really for them....but now we have several new genres of music because of those
boxes

roland needs to realize there is a whole wide world of music and musicans that really don't want to or care about sounding like
{insert big name band here} and want new and creative sounds
EH gets that like a mo and always have so does zvex

i love my vg but am really wanting a gr55 for more synth options
i will say it is nice when i play out cuz us vg users do have a secret weapon that blows minds

Elantric · « **Reply #31 on:** May 26, 2012, 05:09:08 PM »

Bill,
I think its already a case of "already did that" that for Fuzz

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3137.msg36228#msg36228

Quote

Fuzz you would do well with a GR- 55 and a VG-99.
Hope you get one, its right up your alley.
But it is a brain work out the way its layed out.
Probably great for keeping ones mind sharp...

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #32 on:** May 26, 2012, 05:37:15 PM »

Yeah, what Elantric said on the patch names.

Some of mine are like that "Pod's Wobbling Cloud + 12" and the like. "Slash's Sweet Child o' Dover". NOPE!

Fuzz gets a lot of mileage out of his VG-99 that's for sure - a GR-55 might give him some more options beyond what he already gets but I'm amazed at what I learn with the 99 every day - whenever I run into a situation where I think it can't produce a sound, it just does like it wants to prove me wrong.

Bill Ruppert · « **Reply #33 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:33:41 PM »

"Sweet Child o' Dover"

HAHA I like that I may use that that some day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fuzzfactory · « **Reply #34 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:45:01 PM »

i should say the gr55 is on my must have list just need the extra cash
bill i have looked at gumtowns editor and the architecture seems pretty straight forward to me.
i have an extensive synth background and have owned many roland synths so i pretty much know what they got under the hood
the fact that i can have 2 synths with 2 lfo's with full asdr's is a no brainier for me plus i noticed the wave pedal is now bpm syncable
so that gives me 3 lfo's plus a mini vg...yeah i need to make some more money hahaha

Bill Ruppert · « **Reply #35 on:** May 26, 2012, 07:59:12 PM »

Fuzz
I am sure you have extensive synth background but the GR-55 is a nightmare to move around with much speed.
BUT with Gums floorboard its a snap.
Its a brain twister to move around.
You will see.
BUT if you have a laptop on the gig it will be easy.

I have a fantasy the new GR-55 upgrade due out in June will have a graphic interface.
I will scream for joy!

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #36 on:** May 27, 2012, 04:50:23 PM »

There is another factor; GK pickup height. When I did my spring cleaning today I took the opportunity to adjust the pickup height on my RR strat and got it as dialed in as I could. In doing so there was an unintended side effect. I was really surprised at how much the character and frequencies for patches I knew well totally changed - especially for distorted guitar sounds. So I had to do some reprogramming. Still ongoing too.

Bill Ruppert · « **Reply #37 on:** May 27, 2012, 07:19:56 PM »

Wow
You found a big difference in just height adjustment?
I have been rather caviler with just sticking it on with double side tape.
That said Im old...

If you reply talk loud:-)

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #38 on:** May 27, 2012, 10:36:52 PM »

Heh - my old neckthru Jackson shred machine with the GK3 on it has had the same string height and settings since I slapped it on there almost 3 years ago now (can it really be that long?)

The Strat on the other hand has height adjustment screws whereas with the Jackson I actually have to raise and lower the height of the bridge to adjust that and I never did on that guitar.

But I wonder if my discovery today was related to me forgetting that it's a GK2A and not a GK3 in that strat. I'll doublecheck my 99 configuration and get back to this thread but the difference in the sound seemed very noticeable. Brighter, more gainy, less overall dynamics. I'll check the GK system levels too. Very surprising.

Update: Nope, I have it set to GK2A and all GK levels are 22. More in the morning - surprised it made that big a difference.

shawnb · « **Reply #39 on:** May 28, 2012, 06:50:06 PM »

YES, BILL! I FOUND OUT THAT PICKUP HEIGHT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE, TOO! BOTH FOR MY OLDER GK2 GEAR AND MY NEWER GK3 GEAR!

montyrivers · « **Reply #40 on:** May 29, 2012, 04:29:28 AM »

Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 24, 2012, 07:48:33 PM

Wayne:

Good point. Apparently the young metal player will eventually gravitate to synths in their minds. But maybe not. I tell my guitarist friends about it and they get a blank look on their faces.

Kids these days just want what the Sam Ash catalogue tells them they want...

I've met with many a guitarist in the metal scene who shell out lots of money for these brand new tube half stack amps, are clearly miserable with them because they don't know how to use them, have to deal with carrying them around with a floor board full of stomp boxes, and they wonder why I use a 5lbs solid state head and a multi effects unit?

They're just gonna want to immitate the gear used in some music video by their favorite bands. I was no different, starting out. The young, uneducated consumer isn't going to think 'Roland' off the top of their head when they decide to go shopping for their new gear.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with Roland's guitar stuff. I mean, sure. Robert Marcello and crew are all great musicians, but find me someone under the age of 18 who's ever heard of "Danger, Danger"

Fractal got it right with the Ax unit. Younger bands are coming out of their own accord to rave about it (newer groups like Periphery are all over demoing the Ax II on Youtube). Every young metaller I know who gets over their tube amp wants an Ax unit to replace it.

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #41 on:** May 29, 2012, 06:00:49 AM »

Quote from: shawnb on May 28, 2012, 06:50:06 PM

YES, BILL! I FOUND OUT THAT PICKUP HEIGHT MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE, TOO! BOTH FOR MY OLDER GK2 GEAR AND MY NEWER GK3 GEAR!

It's almost like being too close has the same effect as a person who is too close to a microphone - but there's a sweet spot.

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #42 on:** May 29, 2012, 06:06:36 AM »

Quote from: montyrivers on May 29, 2012, 04:29:28 AM

Kids these days just want what the Sam Ash catalogue tells them they want...

I've met with many a guitarist in the metal scene who shell out lots of money for these brand new tube half stack amps, are clearly miserable with them because they don't know how to use them, have to deal with carrying them around with a floor board full of stomp boxes, and they wonder why I use a 5lbs solid state head and a multi effects unit?

They're just gonna want to immitate the gear used in some music video by their favorite bands. I was no different, starting out. The young, uneducated consumer isn't going to think 'Roland' off the top of their head when they decide to go shopping for their new gear.

I think that's one of the biggest problems with Roland's guitar stuff. I mean, sure. Robert Marcello and crew are all great musicians, but find me someone under the age of 18 who's ever heard of "Danger, Danger"

Fractal got it right with the Ax unit. Younger bands are coming out of their own accord to rave about it (newer groups like Periphery are all over demoing the Ax II on Youtube). Every young metaller I know who gets over their tube amp wants an Ax unit to replace it.

Right - the young musician might think they need to go with what their heroes use (who probably went thru trial and error like a lot of us) and why not? If they duplicate a players rig exactly well the other half of the battle is playing right?

And AxeFX did some things right - massive, overwhelming marketing (they basically show up every month on the back cover of every guitar magazine filled with accolades by the players who like their product) and frequent software updates that gets the product better and better.

Roland on the other hand - well, the software is what it is and it can do a lot but their philosophy is that it's pretty much done on arrival. The Japanese social heirarchy doesn't believe in user interaction in a social network context - it was just coming into prominence as this product was released.

If Roland was smart they'd come up with some kind of "smart eq" feature for the VG because it would be perfect for it - but they'll never do it now I'd wager.

Elantric · « **Reply #43 on:** May 29, 2012, 08:50:37 AM »

I know a few of us made the decision to use a DSP guitar processor to "simply plug into the PA."

I will counter that in my 40 years of playing 90% of the time there is no PA. I would have to own or rent my own and set that up too. And the typical PA that I owned was a really modest affair that would distort and sound like $&@ if we ran both Vocals, Guitars Bass into it.

I still use un miced guitar amps for most gigs today, because there is no volume control for the acoustic Drummer (the Drums ALWAYS dictate how loud the band must be, and how many watts i need) and the old Backline amp setup for guitars and bass still work for me with less gear to move
Most of the time we are using a cheap PA for vocals and maybe a miced kick drum only.

However if I convinced everyone to use IEMs and DSP processor and DI boxes, and surrounded the drummer in Plexiglass panels. The PA is still the Achilles heel. Most clubs I play are simply a local bar with a carpeted plywood stage and no house PA.

cynegetic · « **Reply #44 on:** May 29, 2012, 11:27:16 AM »

Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 29, 2012, 06:06:36 AM

If Roland was smart they'd come up with some kind of "smart eq" feature for the VG because it would be perfect for it - but they'll never do it now I'd wager.

An enterprising developer should be able to do this in a mostly automated fashion via analysis, a connected pc, judicious use of midi control, and the two channels using one as a reference or with the sound hold.

I am far too lazy though.

Elantric · « **Reply #45 on:** May 29, 2012, 11:28:58 AM »

"Smart EQs" are a dime a dozen in as VST plugins

Just use that in your DAW or VST host app

Like "Console" for example:
http://console.jp/en/

Here is a good discussion of alternate Win7 VST Host apps here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/printview.php?t=349187&start=0
Just google

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #46 on:** May 29, 2012, 06:29:11 PM »

Okay - I'll try some smart EQs then - The trick of course, is to "export" the smart EQ back to the hardware device I'm using. I hope they make it easier.
Update: Mac users - try Voxengo Span: http://www.voxengo.com/group/free-vst-plugins/

My current system is using these weird things called ears which are surprisingly inconsistent.

Last night I came up with what I thought was a great tubular distorted tone and today to my ears - it seems slightly muffled. Intuitively I added +4 on the treble side of the tone (for both A and B) and all of a sudden I've been playing here for 45 minutes going "damn, this really sounds great!".

AND YES, I just pressed WRITE no more than a minute ago. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten lost in a sound and accidentally pressed my preset up/down buttons losing a great sound forever.

jburns · « **Reply #47 on:** June 01, 2012, 05:26:33 PM »

well actually what the younger/amateur is basing their gear on is whatever their favorite band(s) is using. 100 percent of the time. its certainly the only factor companies use famous players at all, and as well why not using cutting edge/ talented ones instead. theres few exceptions of signature guitars that aren't built like garbage and priced out the valley. mind you also, most ppl care about image not tone.
if roland was smart... they'd separate their market between pro audio and those that play metallica covers. that way they'd be able to feed both groups and profit from it.

Etolle · « **Reply #48 on:** June 06, 2012, 12:19:31 PM »

Well, I had a Vg-99 and I sold it on Ebay a while back. But I've missed it so much that I bought one back. It should be here tomorrow. I'm just as excited as I was when I bought the first one! Glad I kept the GK-2!!

rolandvg99 · « **Reply #49 on:** June 07, 2012, 12:29:23 PM »

After more than a year away from my VG I recently resurrected it from it's retail box a few weeks ago. I've had a crush on a Blackstar HT-20 for the last year and a half, but I couldn't get the VG working to my liking coupled with the HT. Then I bought a ZT lunchbox for those light travel gigs and practise sessions and the magic came back! Yu-hu!

Also added a Super Vee magLok to my GK3 equiped Cort HBS for flawless bends and double stops.
Can't wait for my next gig.

Travel light, travel fast, the 99 is made to last.

Author Topic: The poor misunderstood VG-99 (Read 9404 times)