Topic: Guitar Harmonies on GR-55 (Read 2171 times)

dogbite · « **on:** February 13, 2012, 09:45:51 PM »

Hi. So far this forum is really great. One of the coolest things, is the floorboard software and the other user patches. I am able to dissect a patch to see how it was created and that is helping me quite a bit.

Now, is there a way to do a guitar lead with a harmony? For example have a patch that can play a 3rd above what I am playing? I have this ability with my TC Electronics Nova System, and it seems pretty basic but I can't figure out how to do it!

A couple of examples are the intro solos to Steely Dan's Reelin' in the Years, and the little lead riff of Thin Lizzy's the Boys are back in town...

My band does these, and I would really love to nail them better with the correct leads. Even if the gr-55 can't, could you folks offer any suggestions? I have been playing many years, but this is my first cover band so I am unsure of how to approach things like this.

Thanks!

dogbite

gumtown · « **Reply #1 on:** February 13, 2012, 10:02:44 PM »

I can't recall just off hand if the MFX pitch shifter mixes pitch & dry signal, the GR-55 doesn't have any intelligent harmoniser, but you could do a basic pitch harmony, or use a mix of normal pickup for the root note and the modeled tone set to alternate tuning for the harmony.

kenact · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2012, 01:32:41 PM »

There are numerous devices with intelligent harmonizers, such as the GR-33 & GP-100. There are computer based harmonizers as well, but none that I have used.

As gumtown said, there is, unfortunately, no real "harmonizer" in the GR-55.

One of the problems with the GR-33 & GP-100 harmonizers is that you must set a key, and if the lead you are playing goes outside that key, the harmonizer doesn't really work. I know there's a way to change the key on the GR-33 while you're playing, it's just something I've never tried doing.

dogbite · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2012, 08:12:17 PM »

Thanks folks. I really do appreciate your help. I am liking this unit more and more every time i get into it. I could see it replacing my rig for the cover band. Stay tuned, and please don't get frustrated with me... I'll be bugging everyone. I'm not much of a forum guy, so this is all new to me. Not quite sure of the etiquette.

gafaell · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2012, 06:17:11 AM »

Quote from: dogbite on February 15, 2012, 08:12:17 PM

Thanks folks. I really do appreciate your help. I am liking this unit more and more every time i get into it. I could see it replacing my rig for the cover band. Stay tuned, and please don't get frustrated with me... I'll be bugging everyone. I'm not much of a forum guy, so this is all new to me. Not quite sure of the etiquette.

Hi, folk!

I am in the same situation you tell us. It is a pity we have lost the intelligent harmonizer that we have used in our previous GR 30, GR 33, VG 88, VG 99 etc.

I still hope that ROLAND will take notice of this and include the harmonizer in the next 1.03 firmware update.

kenact · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2012, 09:31:35 AM »

Quote from: gafaell on February 17, 2012, 06:17:11 AM

I still hope that ROLAND will take notice of this and include the harmonizer in the next 1.03 firmware update.

And the arpeggiator!

But I'm not holding my breath.

Jim Williams · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2012, 02:52:53 PM »

I don't see Roland making another update and if they did I believe the GR-55 lacks the processing power for an intelligent Harmonizer.

DeRigueur · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2012, 03:57:51 PM »

Anybody know exactly which processor the gr-55 has?
There are pictures which refer to a chip with "WSP" on it.
Promotional literature says ESC2.
The question is, is it the most recent Roland chip?

paults · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2012, 07:49:10 PM »

One way to play something with harmonies would be to have the normal guitar play the melody, and have a COSM harmony part. You can assign pitch bend to the pedal - and you could have it do major third at toe down, minor third when you pull it back. Or, you may prefer shifting the harmony part down, instead of up.

gumtown · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2012, 09:44:31 PM »

Quote from: DeRigueur on February 17, 2012, 03:57:51 PM

Anybody know exactly which processor the gr-55 has?
There are pictures which refer to a chip with "WSP" on it.
Promotional literature says ESC2.
The question is, is it the most recent Roland chip?

I saw somewhere that the ESC2 is the latest, same as the GT-100.
The GR-55 seems to have some CPU horsepower behind it, as i can run 2 instances of the editor at the same time, one reading bulk patches, one writing bulk patches, and playing the GR-55 tones and changing patches, and it never flinched or glitched.
The WSP is what the GT-10 has, but these chips are separate from the CPU chip, the GT-10 has a universal one that works either 2 x 32bit or 1 x 64bit.

Looking at this photo of inside the GR-55, the DSP chip sure looks like a WSP

DeRigueur · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2012, 11:46:47 PM »

Quote from: gumtown on February 17, 2012, 09:44:31 PM

I saw somewhere that the ESC2 is the latest, same as the GT-100.
The GR-55 seems to have some CPU horsepower behind it, as i can run 2 instances of the editor at the same time, one reading bulk patches, one writing bulk patches, and playing the GR-55 tones and changing patches, and it never flinched or glitched.
The WSP is what the GT-10 has, but these chips are separate from the CPU chip, the GT-10 has a universal one that works either 2 x 32bit or 1 x 64bit.

Looking at this photo of inside the GR-55, the DSP chip sure looks like a WSP

Hey Gumtown,
Do you have a GT-10 to see if it's the same model?

kenact · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2012, 07:28:12 PM »

Quote from: paults on February 17, 2012, 07:49:10 PM

One way to play something with harmonies would be to have the normal guitar play the melody, and have a COSM harmony part. You can assign pitch bend to the pedal - and you could have it do major third at toe down, minor third when you pull it back. Or, you may prefer shifting the harmony part down, instead of up.

The problem is you'd have to know if you want a maj or min against each note you're playing. The attached image is from the GR-33 owners manual and does a good job of explaining the difference between transposition & harmony.

Player99 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2012, 08:03:06 PM »

Quote from: kenact on February 18, 2012, 07:28:12 PM

The problem is you'd have to know if you want a maj or min against each note you're playing. The attached image is from the GR-33 owners manual and does a good job of explaining the difference between transposition & harmony.

That would only apply to chords though?

If you wanted to have a single saxophone play a 3rd or a fifth over your single note lead it would work?

kenact · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2012, 10:27:15 PM »

Quote from: Player99 on February 18, 2012, 08:03:06 PM

That would only apply to chords though?

If you wanted to have a single saxophone play a 3rd or a fifth over your single note lead it would work?

No, the GR-55 does not have that capability, it cannot be set to play a 3rd or a 5th, it can only be set to transpose. In other words, you can set the GR-55 to play a note 4 steps above the note you are playing.

Here's the way it's explained in the GR-33 Owner's Manual as it relates to the diagram I posted:

The difference in the results of the two methods is shown by
the arrows in the figure.
The harmonies produced by parallel transposition may
sound odd at times. The place on the scale where this
problem occurs depends on the key, whether the key is major
or minor, the interval between the main melodic line and the
harmony, and so on.
The GR-33’s Harmonist uses what it knows about the current
key—which is already set in the patch—to continuously
adjust the harmonic intervals between the guitar sound and
synth sound, or between the 1st and 2nd tones, creating
pleasing harmonies.
The GR-33’s Harmonist also fully supports chord play. This
means that complex chords can be created by playing a
simple three-note chord, greatly reducing the chances of
fingering mistakes during difficult performances.

Player99 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2012, 11:39:40 PM »

That's why my Boss Harmonist has a dial with all the keys, major and minor on it that has to be manually set for the key the song is in.

dogbite · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2012, 05:27:27 PM »

Yes, the the intelli p feature on the Nova system works pretty well. You choose the Key and the Diatonic Mode then the interval desired. So if a note should be a minor 3rd, instead of a major to remain in key, it makes that adjustment. I will just continue to use that. it's just I'm trying to pare down my rig, not build it up. Oh Well... But so far the Gr-55 is working well, I just need to understand more about it.

Thanks for the help.

gumtown · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2012, 12:47:14 AM »

Quote from: DeRigueur on February 17, 2012, 11:46:47 PM

Hey Gumtown,
Do you have a GT-10 to see if it's the same model?

Sold my GT-10, but still have the GT-10B, which is exactly the same inside, apart from the extra plug-in XLR board.
Here is the GT-10B WSP chip

and here is the GT-10B CPU chip

the other chip in the GR-55 is a 2MBx16 x 4layer RAM chip (8MB total)

DeRigueur · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:33:01 AM »

So the GT-10 has a R03679367
and the GR-55, a R05011845

Hmmm, not sure what to make of this.

aliensporebomb · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2012, 08:20:45 PM »

What is in the 99? That has the best pitch transposition in a consumer based guitar unit that I have personally experienced.

Bill Ruppert · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2012, 08:50:52 PM »

Steve knows but if not I have the chip info here somewhere for the VG-99!
Yes it is the best yet.

Chips might get faster but it is the code written that is the bottom line.
You can have the best tools but if you don't play it right its not great.
Same with code.
People forget that and look to new chips....

Quote from: aliensporebomb on February 20, 2012, 08:20:45 PM

What is in the 99? That has the best pitch transposition in a consumer based guitar unit that I have personally experienced.

gafaell · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:33:29 AM »

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on February 20, 2012, 08:50:52 PM

Steve knows but if not I have the chip info here somewhere for the VG-99!
Yes it is the best yet.

Chips might get faster but it is the code written that is the bottom line.
You can have the best tools but if you don't play it right its not great.
Same with code.
People forget that and look to new chips....

Any news about a new GR 55 firmware update v 1.03 ?

As it happened with VG 88 v-2, a nice firmware update added new features and effects to the unit. I hope the harmonizer and arpeggiator will come into this update, and other suggestions mentioned in this forum.

Elantric · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2012, 12:16:10 PM »

Quote

Any news about a new GR 55 firmware update v 1.03 ?

Summer 2012

Quote

What is in the 99? That has the best pitch transposition in a consumer based guitar unit that I have personally experienced.

I would reserve that opinion until you audition a Tyler Variax.

In my arsenal - my Tyler Variax has the best non warbling DSP based Alt Tuning effect.

VSR · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2012, 05:18:01 AM »

Quote from: gumtown on February 17, 2012, 09:44:31 PM

I saw somewhere that the ESC2 is the latest, same as the GT-100.
The GR-55 seems to have some CPU horsepower behind it, as i can run 2 instances of the editor at the same time, one reading bulk patches, one writing bulk patches, and playing the GR-55 tones and changing patches, and it never flinched or glitched.
The WSP is what the GT-10 has, but these chips are separate from the CPU chip, the GT-10 has a universal one that works either 2 x 32bit or 1 x 64bit.

Looking at this photo of inside the GR-55, the DSP chip sure looks like a WSP
(Image removed from quote.)

Does anyone know the Mhz of gt 10 or gt10b?

Litesnsirens · « **Reply #23 on:** June 22, 2012, 09:06:54 AM »

How timely to see this thread, I was just playing with the pitch shifter a few days ago. It will play the shifted note along with the original note, so for lack of a better description it will harmonize it just doesn't do it intelligently.

For me this pretty much renders it unusable and I think it would be great if Roland would add this feature in a firmware update even better if it comes in the update that's just around the corner :-).
They have a boss pedal that does this so it should be easy enough. As far as DSP goes, the unit tells you if you've added too much into the chain for it to handle, I would hope a unit this powerful could handle a decent guitar patch with intelligent harmony.

I'm loving this unit more each day and can't wait for the update. I mentioned in another thread that after connecting it to the computer it messes up some of my controller assignments by reversing them, hopefully this bug will be fixed.
In the GR librarian manual it says not to disconnect the Gr-55 while the librarian software is still running so I heeded that advice but it still happens.

Aside from what I have mentioned and the already hinted at fixes that update will address I can't think of anything off the top of my head that I would ask for. Damn solid piece of gear.

gafaell · « **Reply #24 on:** June 22, 2012, 09:20:52 AM »

Yes, i totally agree with you. An intelligent pitch shifter is really necessary in this unit.

I hope this will come in the next 1.50 upgrade.

After using GR 30, VG 88 with the harmonizer function it has become an important effect for lead guitars, brasses and piano harmonies.

Author Topic: Guitar Harmonies on GR-55 (Read 2171 times)