Will the VG-99 be replaced by a new Roland product.

[vgformort]

There will be a new model next generation VG guitar, amp and effects modeling product at Summer NAMM, 2012.

How do I know this?

I attended the Roland exhibits at Winter NAMM, 2012.  I spoke to a Roland guitar rep regarding the new products at that show.  He explained that:

1.   The new Boss-GT-100 sports a new processor with reworked models of amps and effects.
2.   The new  Roland G-5 VG Stratocaster also features a new "chip" with reworked guitar models.

Playing Nostrodomus, all the pieces of the technology puzzle are now in place.   New chip and new modeling of guitars and amps and effects.  And by debuting the new VG guitars, Roland has reaffirmed its commitment to its divided pickup technology.  There is nothing left for Roland to invent to debut a next generation to the VG-99.  Its just a matter of merging all the pieces into a single product.  So the replacement for the VG-99 is just a season away.

Did anyone tell me this?  No.  But with the VG-99 already shipping for several years, it's time for Roland to refresh the product.  And it has the technology now in place to do that.

However just because a new version of the VG-99 will debut at the next NAMM show does not mean that it will be worth the cost to the user to upgrade.   Some will probably say it will just be a "rehash" of the existing technology.  It will be an individual decision by each existing VG-99 user as to whether an upgrade is worth the price of admission to the latest gear. 

From Roland's point of view, its marketing needs to continually debut new products to refresh its line and to attempt to entice not only existing customers to replace their instruments, but also to interest new customers in the technology.

So enjoy your VG-99 now and be prepared to weigh the pros and cons of upgrading once summer arrives.

[Kevin M]

Not gonna happen

[Elantric]

Not gonna happen

+1

Instead - look for a summer 2012 release of new GR-55 firmware.

The VG-99 sales have been extremely dead,  - no doubt due to its cost.

by contrast , in only one year, the GR-55 has outsold the entire 5 year production numbers of  VG-99, by a large margin - like 5 to 1 - mostly due to the  GR-55's 1/3 sales price compared to the VG-99.

Roland (in 2012)  has zero interest in directly competing with higher priced products priced similarly to Fractal Systems Axe-FX, or Kemper Modeling amps. If they did, who would buy one?

One could argue with Roland's Stone age mindest - they have zero interest in having an Online web presence for patch sharing, Forums, or social networking capability, therefore they can no longer directly compete against Line 6, or even Fender - in 2012 Both those companies do a much better job of delivering software tools and social network infrastructure with forums and online patch sharing and directly responding to what their customers  want.

I know Roland US has Youtube channels, and PodCasts  - but only Roland UK has a Facebook page, and user Forum - with limited awareness outside the UK.

Here's a clue - for most professionals, Roland's "etch a sketch"  EZ- Edit  editing screen is Not Desired. It was lame back in 2000 on the VG-88, and its equally lame on the new GT-100.

And the other clue  - for the new GT-100,  they will not develop an Editor, ( update in 2014 Boss Tone Studio arrived)

nor directly support any method for end users to share user to user patches. ( nothing has changed in this regard )


I understand Gumtown will step up to the plate and intends to create and Editor for the GT-100, much as he has done for every other half baked Roland guitar processor product for the past 8 years. 

But back to Roland US, Its rather like a death wish in  my opinion, rather like the want to die and wither, while they try to stay stuck in the big hair metal days of 1981.


Perhaps they figure the powers that be will kill the internet by 2013 - so why waste the time and money developing a user friendly web presence for forums and patch sharing.   

Instead they want to focus on releasing dumbed down products which they assume will entertain the masses, even with the new strong Yen, and 30% higher prices in 2012 vs 2010.   

In 2012, I will be investing in Fender products instead- my new Mustang Floor has already been purchased, and I was able to play it for quite a while at NAMM and sound blows the GT-100 out of the room for my needs. It will ship in March. The Fender Fuse Editor provides lots of programability, and the MIDI Implementation on the Mustang Floor is superior to recent Roland products - It even has MIDI Thru and MIDI clock sync. Class Compliant USB Audio ( for use as Ipad Audio interface) - for half the cost of a GT-100.

And Fender has many many many shared USER patches in all genres , and in 2012, their DSP Amp modeling sounds the best of the breed to my ears.


Edit - While Id be first in line to buy a new flagship "VG-100" when its released - its not going to happen anytime soon.
In 2014 Roland released the "back to basics" Boss GP-10 as the "new VGuitar system" - so my predictions above were rather accurate.

[Bill Ruppert]

Yes the VG-99 is dead to Roland.
They will never do that again!

[arkieboy]

I don't think there will be a new VG unit for several reasons.  I hope I'm proved wrong because I'd love a 'VG100' or whatever it would be called.  But here goes the justification for no new product... and some predictions about what we might get when it arrives

1) no new product because it would rob sales from the 55.  Why compete with yourself?

2) they have traditionally interleaved releases of VG and GR gear - probably to avoid each line competing for sales.  We've just got a new GR, we'll have to wait a while for a new VG.

3) the price trajectory of roland products is down until they get a new innovation.  Each successive VG retail has been at a lower price than the previous so I would expect the next VG box to have all of the 99 + some other bits and pieces for much less. 

4) I'd expect it to go back to a floor unit with much the same software but more processing power.  The VG99 box is unique whereas the 55 looks like other roland floor units.  Cheaper to produce something that reuses some parts...

5) we're in a recession and the yen is high so cheaper products are the order of the day

So what do I think will happen?  If VG is to continue, then possibly next year, but more likely a year hence we'll get a new floor unit with all the bits of the 99 + all of the bits missing from the 8, 8ex and 88 + a couple of extra models + lots more processing power all at 24/96 at about £700/$1000/€800.

On the other hand, combining both VG and GR in one box is compelling.  We may never see another VG unit again

What you have to do is think what a Guitar Centre salesman can sell in 5 minutes, sadly

Steve

[Elantric]

What you have to do is think what a Guitar Center salesman can sell in 5 minutes, sadly

Bingo!
But its more More like 30 seconds, which is about the max attention span of buyers today.

Next step is getting guitarists to actually learn to read the owners manual of the gear they buy,
But we have raised a culture of guitarists who lack an original thought, or innovation, and would rather seek peer approval for every breath they take on their Twitter  / Facebook feed


The attraction of the VG-99, if you own one, you either dive in and "get it"as an audio sandbox for guitarists , or you sell it and move on.

[Bill Ruppert]

The VG-99 was even over the heads of Roland USA.
They did not have a CLUE what it could do or how to program it!

[DeRigueur]

Instead - look for a summer 2012 release of new GR-55 firmware.

Were you thinking of a release to fix bugs?  ... or something more substantial like improved models?

[Elantric]

Were you thinking of a release to fix bugs?  ... or something more substantial like improved models?

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5031.msg36444#msg36444

<Did they give you any idea of the other bugs they would be addressing?>



I was not provided many details.  I can say at Winter NAMM 2012,  Roland US made a request to get another copy of our GR-55 Bug List, and I was told to look for an official announcement of new GR-55 firmware later this year.

Thats about all I know.

I anticipate Summer NAMM 2012 would be the schedule for this release.

Edit - and like clockwork - GR-55 FW 1.50 arrived  in Summer 2012
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6423.0

[aliensporebomb]

I don't see a Super VG-99.  Super VG-99 means more expensive.

The marketing of the 99 was just completely messed up.  But, V-Drums, V-Accordion and V-Piano were easier to market since they all did one thing.

The VG-99 - that product had too many purposes/features!
Guitar to midi converter?  Check
Amp Modeler?  Check
Polyphonic Guitar synthesizer?  Check
Midi interface?  Check
USB Recording interface?  Check
One of every Boss effects unit ever made times 2?  Check
Hexaphonic Harmonizer deluxe?  Check
Tuner?  Check

The list goes on and on.  And I'm leaving out a lot - utterly maniacal complexity and depth.  Millions of combination of EQ - millions of potential tones.

Any marketing department would go out of their minds trying to market this box which is entirely too flexible and to be honest requires some brains to know how to use it. 

I work in I.T. for my day gig - computers are my bread and butter so I grok the technology very well but how many people get on here wanting to know how to get a ZZ Top rhythm tone?  A Les Paul and a 50 watt Marshall would have been a better purchase for those guys. 

The boomers are aging and moving on.  The gigging days for some of these people are pretty much over so you get a lot of home recordists.  The younger generation isn't so stuck in the past perhaps so modern sounding tones are of more interest.  Or rather, the sound of todays pop hits are synths, synth bass, samples drums and autotuned voices with very little guitar.

Roland seems curiously stuck in a particular era.

I don't see Super VG-99.
I don't see VG-99EX.

Instead I see GR-55 version 2.
I see GR-55 EX if it gets improved.

The only way I could see VG-99 success at this point: form factor/appearance change, remarketing, change of internals. 

I love my VG-99 for recording but at this point I'm seriously considering getting a Mesa 50/50 that would match my Studio Preamp and then some kind of 2x12" just for recording/gigs.

Computerized things are all well and good but they get obsolete quickly and some of the gear I've used the past 20 years will still work in 20 years - can I say that about the VG-99 or any other Roland microprocessor box?

[MCK]

Next step is getting guitarists to actually learn to read the owners manual of the gear they buy,

Are you kidding me? We can't even get people to read the simple instructions that tell them they need to indicate a valid reason for joining this forum before we can given them access... Getting the masses to read a full 300 page manual... Peh.

[vanceg]

I gotta agree - It's Love the VG-99 as it stands...or move on to other products. 

Personally - the GR-55 has nothing of interest for me that the VG-99 doesn't, so I'm staying with the 99 as my main tool until I switch completely over to a home-brewed hex processing rig based on a laptop and a 6 channel guitar interface.

[jburns]

vg-200, a vg-99 with a usb stick. since they seem to be putting that on everything.. i wouldn't want one to be honest. gt-100 has the same chain as the vg99 only 2 new mod fx. jus missing midi. i like using midi for controls and when it comes to controls vg99 is still on top, so i agree with bill. this is the reason i didn't switch to a 55. yea id like say better midi conversion and an aux in with a level control, even stereo l/r for normal gtr in & out, but hey its not a perfect world. roland has the worst marketing of any company ever. the ads are weak and corny, even the boxes look like a kids product. "this is the coolest, newest, most advance thing ever aka the same crap we did 10 yrs ago packaged in a different box" gtfo. until they use the 99's like we do, and prob never will, i don't see there being a vg anything either. yet a gr-?60 might outdo the vg99 in a few yrs... but i rather work with what i got than predict anything.

its taken me almost a year to master the vg99 as an instrument, I'm finally getting knockin patches that i love to play and have a lot of creation with. I'm happy.
gt-100,gr55,vg99  are all very much alike in modeling. so until the modeling software changes for new products, a new vg isn't gonna do much different anyway. its still nice to see new gk stuff coming out tho isn't it? even if its only an "upgraded" gk strat.

[MCK]

If you want a new V product from Roland start learning how to play the accordion... you will have a higher chance of getting something new... Go figure.

[gumtown]

gt-100 has the same chain as the vg99 only 2 new mod fx. jus missing midi. i like using midi for controls and when it comes to controls vg99 is still on top, so i agree with bill. this is the reason i didn't switch to a 55.

Not sure i understand what you mean? Both the GT-100 and the GR-55 have midi ports and can be controlled by external midi.

From what i understand the VG-99 chain is based on two parallel GT-8's (two independant chains), where the GT-10 & GT-100 both have a singular paralleled chain.
The COSM amp Modeling evolution goes GT8 > GT-Pro > VG-99 > GT-10 > ME-70 > ME-25 > GR-55 > BR-80 > GT-100>GP-10
With each stage a natural progression for better or worse, and the GT-100 amp modeling is (supposed to be) something totally new, based on the best of everything before.

[jburns]

i know the gt100 has midi, its one of the features i really like on it. gtr to midi is what i meant i.e. gk/usb midi.

the gt100 has almost exactly the same modeling,fx,chain patch,mod 1/2, etc as a vg99 :

COMP, OD/DS, PREAMP, EQ, FX1/FX2(*), DELAY, CHORUS, REVERB, PEDAL FX, NS1/NS2, ACCEL FX
* FX1/FX2 ... T.WAH, AUTO WAH, SUB WAH, ADV. COMP, LIMITER, SUB OD/DS, GRAPHIC EQ, PARA EQ, TONE MODIFY, GUITAR SIM, SLOW GEAR, DEFRETTER, WAVE SYNTH, SITAR SIM., OCTAVE, PITCH SHIFTER, HARMONIST, SOUND HOLD, AC. PROCESSOR, PHASER, FLANGER, TREMOLO, ROTARY, UNI-V, PAN, SLICER, VIBRATO, RING MOD., HUMANIZER, 2X2 CHORUS, SUB DELAY.  now that sounds a lot like a vg-99 to me with 2 or 3 extras. i havent read a manual but i wouldn't be surprised if the amp section is 90% the same as well. "next gen chip"?? that doesn't mean anything to me, does an iPhone 3 have better reception than an iPhone 4? no, your calls are the same and it doesn't change your bill (sound/tone) at the end of the month, jus some new apps. the "new" ACCEL pedal isn't new, we have multi parameter controlled pedals already, zoom has 4-way as well. "new" a/b channels? um hey roland thats not new.. etc etc 400 presets 200 user 200 factory, hey thats familiar too.

the vg-99 is based on gt-pro i thought not gt-8s? most of the roland vg99 demos say its 2 gtpro but id take your word for that tho, you seem to know your stuff pretty well. seriously i would believe you gumtown over roland, you seem more knowledgeable than they are, to me at least. so you of all ppl shouldn't think your going to find any real dramatic improvement on that "new chip".
try this doughnut, its better cause it has new sprinkles. yea well it was baked in the same oven, same dough, same chocolate, but costs more. i guess what i meant was its no doubt going to have to same amp models, od/ds types, and more importantly the same options (or lack of) in parameters and controls.

[aliensporebomb]

The marketing blurb on the '99 says it contains (among a ton of other stuff):
"- Dual GT-Pro-class effects processor".

However, Bill Ruppert has said the GR-55 has more dynamic response than the VG-99 in the cosm amplifier models.  Bill Ruppert would know since he probably has done more to program a VG-99 than most of the users here and owns both devices.

So I'd wager these newer devices have faster processors or wider bitdepths.

That being said, after spending two years programming the 99 I've gotten good at getting amp-like response out of it.   This is not a "turn it on and instantly get godlike sounds out of it" box.  However, you can get good results if you apply time and study.   There's a ton of patches here that destroy the patches that roland shipped it with.  IMO.

As far as the GT-100, they're filtering around out there - people are getting them. 
Here's a guy who did a melodic ballad type demo with his GT-100:



Just listening, I believe I could get a similar lead tone out of the 99 just listening to it.  As far as I'm concerned, for the moment, the 99 is it.

[gumtown]

Yes, you are correct in assuming the same old stuff in the GT-100, with a few missing features to offset the new/rehashed ones.
I am hoping the quality has improved more exponentally than the previous upgrades, i couldn't care less for 50 amp models, just as long as there are a few good ones.
The GT-8 and GT-Pro are much the same thing, the GT-pro being rack mount with two extra S/R loops and 12 assigns instead of 8, both with exactly the same COSM incarnation.
The VG-99 COSM being circa halfway between the GT-8/Pro and the GT-10, but better because there are two independant lots.

Will a VG-99 replacement be seen soon?
Maybe, if gauging the next release date based on historical upgrades, then possibly next year.
What will be in it? One would expect atleast the same features as the VG-99, maybe a floor unit might be more sellable (or a desk unit with a floor pedal docking cradle?) There will be an expectation that it has atleast the features of the GR-55, maybe with built-in PCM synths and more guitar models, or maybe models of other instruments too.
Who knows??

[gumtown]

In that demo video below, the guy is actually using a GT-10, but he has changed his youtube posting title to GT-100 for more hits, the video was posted last year, and you do not see a GT-100 in any of his videos.

[aliensporebomb]

In that demo video below, the guy is actually using a GT-10, but he has changed his youtube posting title to GT-100 for more hits, the video was posted last year, and you do not see a GT-100 in any of his videos.

Oh that is silly.  I suppose I should add "naked hot babe tantrums" on my own videos to get more hits. 

[aliensporebomb]

Yes, you are correct in assuming the same old stuff in the GT-100, with a few missing features to offset the new/rehashed ones.
I am hoping the quality has improved more exponentally than the previous upgrades, i couldn't care less for 50 amp models, just as long as there are a few good ones.
The GT-8 and GT-Pro are much the same thing, the GT-pro being rack mount with two extra S/R loops and 12 assigns instead of 8, both with exactly the same COSM incarnation.
The VG-99 COSM being circa halfway between the GT-8/Pro and the GT-10, but better because there are two independant lots.

Will a VG-99 replacement be seen soon?
Maybe, if gauging the next release date based on historical upgrades, then possibly next year.
What will be in it? One would expect atleast the same features as the VG-99, maybe a floor unit might be more sellable (or a desk unit with a floor pedal docking cradle?) There will be an expectation that it has atleast the features of the GR-55, maybe with built-in PCM synths and more guitar models, or maybe models of other instruments too.
Who knows??

My guess?  Noticing Roland's latest "subtractive" approach to their latest gear (example GR-55 can't be used as a sound module, the missing editor software on the 55, plus the new GT-100 doesn't have XLR outs) I suspect it would be a VG-99 minus d-beam and ribbon controller and perhaps some other things subtracted.  But then again they might add some things too.  A VG-99/GR-55 might be attractive....we could go on and on about it.

[Kevin M]

....we could go on and on about it.

Or, we could just enjoy the tools we currently have at hand!  :-)

[whippinpost91850]

Yes, XLR outputs on the GR55 would have been nice as well. It looks like I'll be picking up a VG99 cheap this week. So more questions other then about GR55

[nosaintnick]

What you have to do is think what a Guitar Centre salesman can sell in 5 minutes, sadly

This made me laugh. So for four years I was a third party guitar tech at the local guitar centers. Nobody that worked at any of them for any length of time knew a thing about the VG99 or the GR55 though some of the old guys lamented spending a mortgage payment or two on a gr1 back in the day. Every single time a customer came in asking about guitar synths the salesmen just sent them straight to me. So there I was, not even an employee of the store, taking a half hour out of my day to show someone how to program sounds on defective floor units.

I saw ONE Roland rep the whole time I was there, in four years. I told him all we needed for the VG99 display was a GK cable. He said he was just a keyboard guy but he'd forward the message on to the guitar guys but not to hold my breath. Never saw one. They don't care about training salesmen on their products, don't care if floor units are working, and clearly have the attitude that their relationship with the customer ends once a purchase is made.

I don't have an axe to grind, just the opposite. I like their products and was excited to help customers. My wife uses a phantom X7 and I have both a vg99 and gr55  (plus a friends abandoned gr1 in the closet). I want to see them succeed in the future but they won't (as far as guitar processors go) if they continue like this, ignoring social media, patch sharing forums, and even just the occasional firmware updates.

It's weird, they can be quite innovative but conservative at the same time and remind me of Nintendo, they can really knock one out of the park when they want to but most of their business really is modeled around the casual user.

[Elantric]

This made me laugh. So for four years I was a third party guitar tech at the local guitar centers. Nobody that worked at any of them for any length of time knew a thing about the VG99 or the GR55 though some of the old guys lamented spending a mortgage payment or two on a gr1 back in the day. Every single time a customer came in asking about guitar synths the salesmen just sent them straight to me. So there I was, not even an employee of the store, taking a half hour out of my day to show someone how to program sounds on defective floor units.

I saw ONE Roland rep the whole time I was there, in four years. I told him all we needed for the VG99 display was a GK cable. He said he was just a keyboard guy but he'd forward the message on to the guitar guys but not to hold my breath. Never saw one. They don't care about training salesmen on their products, don't care if floor units are working, and clearly have the attitude that their relationship with the customer ends once a purchase is made.

I don't have an axe to grind, just the opposite. I like their products and was excited to help customers. My wife uses a phantom X7 and I have both a vg99 and gr55  (plus a friends abandoned gr1 in the closet). I want to see them succeed in the future but they won't (as far as guitar processors go) if they continue like this, ignoring social media, patch sharing forums, and even just the occasional firmware updates.

It's weird, they can be quite innovative but conservative at the same time and remind me of Nintendo, they can really knock one out of the park when they want to but most of their business really is modeled around the casual user.

nosaintnick

Your experience matches mine  100% - and this is in high profile Guitar Centers up and down California.

The VG-99 in store demo display setup ( before it broke years ago) was basically only used as a day care center for the 8 year old children of local pro musicians who were there buying strings  - the VG-99 provided a toy distraction for the kids, and all the Guitar Center staff joked that they finally found a use for the the VG-99 - before it broke.

When I informed the Hollywood Guitar Center they should take better care of their VG-99  in store display, and told them the VG-99 was a favorite of Adrian Belew - none of the under 30 year old sales staff had heard of Adrian Belew.