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Author Topic: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper  (Read 10578 times)

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aliensporebomb

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Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« on: January 28, 2012, 09:13:54 PM »

This is RIGHT up my alley - and the fact that it uses an SD card for loop storage - claims 1/2 day of looping time!

ProAudioStar First Look : Pigtronix Infinity Looper NAMM 2012


The loop multiplier feature is pretty slick.

Check it out.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 09:15:53 PM by aliensporebomb »
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shawnb

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 09:42:40 PM »


Very nice.   To me the most impressive feature is what he talked about at the end - the bass/bass loop can go to the bass amp and the guitar/guitar loop can go to the guitar amp.   I've been looking for that, so my synth can go to the PA and my guitar can go to the guitar amp, and I can loop whichever I want & solo over that with the other.  VERY nice...       

The "multiplier", I'm pretty sure is also done by the Boomerang III - e.g., your first loop does NOT have to be your longest loop.  I don't own the Rang III, but my understanding is that it does this automatically, without telling it in advance that 'this track is 4x the first one'.   

In the new RC300, you can predefine the tracks to be certain lengths if desired, and somewhat accomplish this, but not on the fly.   

I'd be interested in knowing whether you can change the tempo on the fly, & how much the sound is mangled.   
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Fred132

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 03:13:40 PM »

Looks very interesting...Pigtronix makes nice stuff.

Anyone know what the street price will be?
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bbob

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 03:12:49 PM »

Today I sent the following message to Dave Koltai at Pigronix:

"In your NAMM 2012 video for the Infinity looper you mention a SD card. Will the function of the SD card be just to increase loop length or will we be able load backing tracks on the SD card to be played back by the Infinity and still retain some of the looper funtions during backing track playback?'

And got the following reply:

"Working on that now. Hopefully both."
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Hopkins

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 05:47:25 PM »

In the new RC300, you can predefine the tracks to be certain lengths if desired, and somewhat accomplish this, but not on the fly.

I don't mean to be spamming multiple threads but, for reference, here is my earlier post which explains that it *is* possible to loop over a shorter loop without predefining lengths:

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5240.msg38940#msg38940
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 05:56:40 PM by Hopkins »
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Wildlettuce

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, 03:05:54 PM »

Hey there, I own the boomerang III and the rc 300, I prefer the functions of the rang over the rc 300 any day... I'll get to that if you want to hear it... But just wanted to state that the rang 3 has that loop multiplayer build in and it does it automatically... You don't have to tune it.
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Hopkins

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, 05:22:03 PM »

Hi!  Yes, please do.  I'm pretty new to looping (all I had to play with before was a Line6 DL4, but I was only using it as a practising aid - now I am trying to make a whole loop-based project).  When I was looking into what to buy I found that exactly what I imagined was not available, but then I was also learning about other ideas which I had not imagined.  The RC-300 strikes me as a pretty capable machine, even though hardware loopers in general seem to have plenty of room left for development.
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bbob

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, 08:14:22 PM »

Anyone know what the street price will be?

On 4 /2 Dave Koltai e-mailed me that they had not determined the price yet

Bob
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Bill Ruppert

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, 09:29:18 PM »

FWIW
Dave Koltai is a great guy and a great player.
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mbenigni

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2012, 07:44:03 AM »

I really want this looper, but I don't think I can wait much longer to replace the RC-2 I just sold.  No word on a release date yet?

For now the RC-30 is my best guess at a viable replacement, but I have a feeling I'll be doing this all over again when the Infinity finally ships.

Quote
I don't mean to be spamming multiple threads but, for reference, here is my earlier post which explains that it *is* possible [with the RC300] to loop over a shorter loop without predefining lengths:

Am I safe in assuming that the RC-30 is not capable of anything this sophisticated?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 07:45:59 AM by mbenigni »
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bbob

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2012, 08:55:34 AM »

FWIW
Dave Koltai is a great guy and a great player.

And he answered both e-mails I sent him within about 5 minutes.   ;D

Bob
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aliensporebomb

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2012, 06:51:58 AM »



So the jacks on the back of this prototype differ from the jacks on the back of the unit as shown at the Sweetwater site:

-MIDI SYNC for midi clocking (the DIN jack)
-AUX LOOP output (sums loop audio only)
-Jack for UNDO
-Expression pedal for LOOP volume.

So you need an external pedal/switch for UNDO and Loop volume pedal.

Jacks on the right side:

Stereo ins.

Jacks on the left side:

Stereo outs.

Interestingly, this is the same setup that drives me nuts about the Stereo Memory Man with Hazarai - why are the inputs on the right?
Just my mental breakdown but no problem.  I can get used to it just like I got used to the SMMH.

The jacks on the back of the unit as shown on the Sweetwater site are different:  they show five quarter inch jacks.  Probably just stock imagery but....

C'mon Dave of Pigtronix - when is this going to be out? 
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Hopkins

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 07:40:49 AM »

Interestingly, this is the same setup that drives me nuts about the Stereo Memory Man with Hazarai - why are the inputs on the right?

I have a suggestion because I am just about to modify my setup to go from right to left: for a right-handed player the guitar outputs to the right of the player.  By running your pedal chain right to left you reduce the effect of tripping over the guitar lead.

(My setup is "only" Pod HD 300 -> Boss RC-300 and then out to a mixer, but, still, I have an array of 14 switches and two expression pedals for my guitar lead to get caught up in!)
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Elantric

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 10:14:41 AM »

The precedent is the Boss Pedals - all have Input Right, Output Left

aliensporebomb

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2012, 11:52:03 AM »

I must have had a TIA live on stage or something because for the life of me I thought it was the other way around.  It never bothered me before.  That's the problem with aging: sometimes stuff can trip you up.

I still am hoping this comes out sooner rather than later.  Do I wait for this or do I get an RC-300?  Hmmm.

Has anyone attended summer NAMM and seen Pigtronix out there?  Any sign of the infinity?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 12:50:24 PM by aliensporebomb »
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Hopkins

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2012, 01:45:26 PM »

I still am hoping this comes out sooner rather than later.  Do I wait for this or do I get an RC-300?  Hmmm.

I will be interested to hear your decision.  What are your criteria?  Without trawling through past posts, iirc the things in favour of the Infinity are input routing and a smaller size.  I think that most other things are in favour of the RC-300.  Still, perhaps this is why there is a delay - perhaps Pigtronix are specifically aiming to patch any holes left by the RC-300...
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aliensporebomb

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2012, 02:06:38 PM »

Well, criteria - I want >1 loop and I want an undo, stereo, and good sound.  Everything else is gravy.

I like the fact that the RC-300 lets you do key changes if you set it up right but there are some aspects of the Infinity I like too:  memory card storage, undo, and the extra output as well as some of the MIDI features.

Thinking.  I can wait a bit.
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shawnb

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2012, 02:12:43 PM »

Without trawling through past posts, iirc the things in favour of the Infinity are input routing and a smaller size.

Another nice thing about the Infinity is where it gets its name...    The easy ability to record a short rhythm loop, say 2 measures, then do longer loops on top of that.   

True, the RC300 can do this also, but you have to set it up to do so - which is no big deal, really.   I have a few RC300 patches for "2/4/8", in which I setup pedal 1 to be a 2 measure loop, pedal 2 to be a 4 measure loop & the 3rd to be an 8 measure loop.   Now whenever I want to improvise in that fashion, I pull up one of those patches.   

The Infinity supports this natively, no setup needed, which makes sense because it's a very common thing for folks to want to do.  More loopers should do this.   
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Hopkins

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2012, 02:51:22 PM »

Agreed, this should be the default mode of operation, but it is important to make clear that you do not need to set up pre-defined ratios on the RC-300 (e.g. 2:4:8) to do this - in "FREE" mode (rather than the default "AUTO") this is set on the fly.  It is also important to note, however, that all shorter loops must divide into the longest loop in order to avoid bars of silence - so 2:4:6 may not work as anticipated with loop sync turned on.  (Sorry, I know you know this - I am clarifying here for people hopping in from Google while researching.)
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shawnb

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2012, 03:38:23 PM »

Agreed, this should be the default mode of operation, but it is important to make clear that you do not need to set up pre-defined ratios on the RC-300 (e.g. 2:4:8) to do this - in "FREE" mode (rather than the default "AUTO") this is set on the fly.  It is also important to note, however, that all shorter loops must divide into the longest loop in order to avoid bars of silence - so 2:4:6 may not work as anticipated with loop sync turned on.  (Sorry, I know you know this - I am clarifying here for people hopping in from Google while researching.)

Correct - and to use this without twiddling with settings on stage, you'd need to create a patch ahead of time in which the track's lengths were set to 'FREE'.   

I confess I have not experimented with 'FREE' yet.   It sounds too much like the old RC50 mode that would try to back-calculate tempo (per the notes on the bottom of pg 19 in the manual...) and caused nightmares for RC50 users.   RC-50 post:
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5273.msg37229#msg37229

I believe this would only be a problem with the rhythm turned off.  I'll experiment with the FREE setting some time this week.   At the very least, the assumptions about your tempo are doc'd in the RC300 manual.   For the RC-50 we had to learn the hard way...   
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Hopkins

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2012, 05:21:29 PM »

I confess I have not experimented with 'FREE' yet.   It sounds too much like the old RC50 mode that would try to back-calculate tempo (per the notes on the bottom of pg 19 in the manual...) and caused nightmares for RC50 users.   RC-50 post:
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5273.msg37229#msg37229

I believe this would only be a problem with the rhythm turned off.  I'll experiment with the FREE setting some time this week.   At the very least, the assumptions about your tempo are doc'd in the RC300 manual.   For the RC-50 we had to learn the hard way...

Haha, I have just read through the issue - it sounds like you had fun ;).  While replying to this I stopped for a quick play with the RC-300 to check my facts and I am happy to report that I have learned something new.  I was mistaken in my previous belief that FREE and AUTO mode would always default to 2 measures in length for the first track.  Actually, they look at the memory tempo and the rhythm guide time signature (even when the rhythm guide is off) and snap to the nearest "power of 2" number of measures (1, 2, 4, 8, 16...).  For example, if the memory tempo is 120 and the time signature is 4/4 (so 2 seconds per measure), then as long as you are close to 2, 4, 8, 16 seconds when you trigger the loop it will assume a 1, 2, 4, 8 measure loop respectively, adjusting the tempo to match.  So, if you hit loop after 15 seconds instead of 16 it will assume that you have intended to record 8 measures and adjust the tempo to 120*16/15 = 128.  However, if you hit loop when you are far away from 1, 2, 4, 8... measures then there will be a large jump in tempo so, referring to the example above, if you instead hit loop at 12 seconds then you will leap up to 160bpm...  Any faster and it will think that actually you were really slow and drop down to just above 80bpm but assume 4 measures instead of 8...

This is really quite clever behaviour and pretty much all the looper can do.  Perhaps it would be nice to tell it always to snap to the nearest measure (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.) instead of 1, 2, 4, 8, etc., but perhaps their testing suggested that this was rarely desired - probably because it was difficult to be so accurate with your "free form" tempo before jumping into a loop.  To work around this, you could bind an external control pedal to change the number of measures of a loop on the fly (although before you start recording), but I am not sure how many people would actually like to have to make that decision mid-improv...!
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atonal

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2012, 09:27:01 PM »

I had the opportunity to spend sometime with the pigtronix infinity looper and what I observed is first it sounds great sounds very anologish and no delay when starting the loop which actually was a problem for me as I'm using a Digitech jamman stereo and you have to hit loop button a bit premature to start the loop so I was off a little with the pigtronix ,but got better with it after working with it for awhile ,had a total of about 15mins with it at the NY amp show.Release date they where telling me is around September with a price in 400.00-450 range if my memory serves me well.I'm still searching for the perfect looper for me and this could be it.Going into NyC tomorrow to see King Crimson projectk and will be stopping off at GC NYC and want to try the Rc-300,but not going to do anything till the pigtronix is released,also trying to hunt down a strymon timeline have heard some real nice looping done with that unit also..
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Hopkins

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2012, 02:39:28 AM »

Great shout - this has to be one of the best presented products I have seen:

http://www.strymon.net/timeline/

The looper is basic but that is not the point - it looks like one of the best delay pedals out there.  Finally something to replace the Line6 DL4 which has served me well for over a decade!
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mbenigni

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2012, 08:01:04 AM »

Release date they where telling me is around September with a price in 400.00-450 range if my memory serves me well.

Finally, some information!  Hope they hold to it - I've been waiting for ages to try this thing.

Going into NyC tomorrow to see King Crimson projectk...

Wish I could make it.  That's going to be a good time.
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aliensporebomb

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Re: Watch out Roland: Pigtronix Infinity Looper
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2012, 02:39:53 PM »

Another nice thing about the Infinity is where it gets its name...    The easy ability to record a short rhythm loop, say 2 measures, then do longer loops on top of that.   

True, the RC300 can do this also, but you have to set it up to do so - which is no big deal, really.   I have a few RC300 patches for "2/4/8", in which I setup pedal 1 to be a 2 measure loop, pedal 2 to be a 4 measure loop & the 3rd to be an 8 measure loop.   Now whenever I want to improvise in that fashion, I pull up one of those patches.   

The Infinity supports this natively, no setup needed, which makes sense because it's a very common thing for folks to want to do.  More loopers should do this.   

Thanks for letting me know it's at least possible with the RC300.  Because usually my loops start out this way:  2-4 bars of something repeating that will fit in key for every element in the song.

Then I add longer bars with more complex musical material.

That being said, I was looking at the inputs and outputs on the back of the RC and the fact that there's a USB port implies I can save my loops to computer. 

That's my biggest issue with my current setup: I've done some really cool improvised loops that sound composed live that I wished I had full range recordings of and the only recording that exists of some of them is on a cell phone recording of the gig; therefore, if I pull the plug there's no record of them and they go away forever.

Looks like I could potentially use the RC to save things I've done for transfer to my computer at home for editing, mastering and later release.

Then in reading the next two messages here it seems the 300 has multiple loop modes where you can alter its looping behavior:  "free", "auto", etc. 
I should read the manual if I can find it online.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 02:44:10 PM by aliensporebomb »
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