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Author Topic: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI  (Read 126850 times)

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Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2012, 11:12:27 PM »

Wait until June -2012

If we are lucky, these may actually ship.

But I expect a revised and changed feature specification between what we saw at NAMM , verses the actual unit we get to buy this summer.   

derwin

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2012, 05:29:03 AM »

does any one know if its possible to use my gr 55 to trigger sounds from my korg synth via a midi cable or would i need a guitar to midi convertor to do this thanks
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audiotrax

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2012, 10:02:51 AM »

Yes, GR-55 can trigger any external synth via a MIDI cable.

Orren Merton

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2012, 11:52:50 AM »

Steve - Did you play the demo version of the Triple Play over on the right side of the booth?  When I played it, the latency was beyond awful.  I mean, horrifically bad. So bad that SOMETHING must have been wrong.  I handed the guitar to the booth person who said that this is, indeed, the way it tracks...and he thought it was great.  My experience at the booth was so bad that I figure that there MUST have been something wrong with that demo unit when I played it. How was your experience?

Hi Vance,

I went there with a compatriot from the LUG (Logic User Group, where I'm a co-administrator) who is an extremely accomplished jazz guitarist who has 13-pin systems on all his guitars. And he's a righty—as a lefty, they had no guitars I could play. But they did have as you remember two headphones per station, so while I personally couldn't play the system myself, I could listen in to Doug.

We were at the demo station to the left of the stage (assuming you're facing the stage). The tracking was great—really fast, he played both more esoteric (well, to this industrial metalhead at least) chords and really blistering jazzy runs, and it never fell behind or missed a note. However, at some points the glitching was extreme on the fast runs. Nearly every note on one particular run was ghosted/doubled. And Doug was playing with a pick, not fingerpicking.

What the demo station rep said was that there were deep parameters for setting up the system to optimize it for a given player as you'd expect but since those were still more or less in "alpha" at this point, those had been completely disabled for the show. We asked about Burr's glitch free demo and he confirmed that they'd spent the time to optimize his rig for his style before the show.

So overall I was left with a positive impression. The "basics" of very fast tracking seemed to already be there. Clearly, they can configure a system for (nearly) glitch-free performance, as evidenced by Burr. I can understand why they felt that allowing "lookie-loos" to try and get into deep editing parameters that are still buggy would be inviting disaster, with the trade off that some players like Doug would end up with pretty glitchy performance. But glitching is something that can absolutely be tweaked in software/firmware. The tracking and the wireless performance were the main things, and those seemed to be there.

I look forward to seeing ones that I can use with my own existing 13-pin systems, and one that's internal!

Orren
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Orren Merton

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2012, 12:05:03 PM »

Yeah wow!  That guy has got the chops!  Unreal!  And the thing kept up without issue.  The drums and the bass/organ were particularly impressive.

I agree that Burr has the chops.

But with no disrespect to Burr intended (when he was demoing for Terratec I helped him troubleshoot some Logic Pro issues, he was very nice), I wish he would venture into more experimental territory. Sure, it's great that you can play drums and bass on guitar, you're a real one-man band. But show me something new. Something that doesn't sound like the guitarist filling in for other band members.

Play a sound I've never heard before! Something cutting edge, something synthy and unique, something that doesn't sound like a semi-accurate version of another instrument. I want to use guitar synth to be something different! Use it to sound like weird space synths! Or controlling hip-hop samples like a DJ! Sound like you could be playing in Korn! Or some wild Lady Gaga video! Please, take this puppy out for a spin and floor it, don't just keep spinning around the same closed track I've seen a million times...

(I figure after that, I'll have to share a song or something in another forum ;) )

I remember when I caught a demo of the GR-55 at NAMM, at least the guitarist threw in an odd techno song or two, trying to do something "outside the box" of the guitarist trying to fill in for the bassist.

Anyway, none of this is to attack the product, or Burr's performance ability. I just think that if you're trying to sell some "cutting edge" technology, you might want to have a cutting edge sound to go with it.

Orren
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 12:09:03 PM by Orren Merton »
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Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2012, 12:30:09 PM »

Quote
But with no disrespect to Burr intended (when he was demoing for Terratec I helped him troubleshoot some Logic Pro issues, he was very nice), I wish he would venture into more experimental territory.


Agreed.

And many of his horn pad backing tones were very cheesy sounding.

Its strange - because as a MIDI controller for guitarists, I could see what this unit was capable of, and I was very impressed, but many other professional folks whose opinion I respect who saw the same demo told me later they were not going to consider the Fishman TriplePlay as anything they wanted, because it sounded so cheesy. (?)
   

audiotrax

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2012, 01:58:30 PM »

I hate to be so negative in this forum, but this is exactly the kind of thing that p*sses me off about my fellow guitarists. I mean really. Have you ever heard of any keyboard player trying out a midi USB keyboard controller and judging it by the sounds that it was triggering at the other end? It would be completely stupid. 

Even teenagers can understand the concept that a USB controller is not actually producing the sounds you hear.

The reason I complain about this dumb can't get out of the box thinking so often is because it affects me. When people that make up a market can't understand basic Tinkertoy thinking beyond headbanging on an electric guitar, it severely ruins the chances of a guitar player getting any type of advanced midi tools produced for themselves.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but it's 2012 now. Wake up already!

Ps:  OK, I'll stop now.  Sheese, don't kick me out of here for being so negative. I really love this technology, and I use it every day.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 02:06:09 PM by audiotrax »
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yuri

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2012, 02:02:29 PM »

Uhhmm what a disappointment. so this Triple play   - reserve bad sonic surprises
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audiotrax

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2012, 02:06:38 PM »

Back on track, here's a question:

I already have a midi controller pedal set up for the functions I need, such as hold sustain and filter sweep .

If I was to get the first generation of this product, I'm wondering if it would be able to recognize my current hardware setup?
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Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2012, 02:32:37 PM »

Case in point:
Quote
Uhhmm what a disappointment. so this Triple play   - reserve bad sonic surprises

Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2012, 02:33:26 PM »

Quote
I hate to be so negative in this forum, but this is exactly the kind of thing that p*sses me off about my fellow guitarists. I mean really. Have you ever heard of any keyboard player trying out a midi USB keyboard controller and judging it by the sounds that it was triggering at the other end? It would be completely stupid.

Even teenagers can understand the concept that a USB controller is not actually producing the sounds you hear.

The reason I complain about this dumb can't get out of the box thinking so often is because it affects me. When people that make up a market can't understand basic Tinkertoy thinking beyond headbanging on an electric guitar, it severely ruins the chances of a guitar player getting any type of advanced midi tools produced for themselves.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but it's 2012 now. Wake up already!

Ps:  OK, I'll stop now.  Sheese, don't kick me out of here for being so negative. I really love this technology, and I use it every day.


+1

whippinpost91850

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2012, 02:39:30 PM »

YOU'RE JUST MAKING A VERY VALID POINT.
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bbob

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2012, 02:39:48 PM »

The idea of going wireless is really appealing but...

The two main tones we use in playing music at church are acoustic and nylon guitar.  I get really nice usable acoustic and nylon sounds using a GK equipped RR Strat and VG-99.  Also use the GR-55 for organ, synth pad, strings, flute and piano tones.

Don't know how I would go about getting COSM type sounds from PC software or a sound module.  Could put the Fishman on a Line 6 Variax and have the acoustic guitar sound and use a Sonic Cell or similar or PC software or iPad for the organ, etc sounds, but last I heard Variax does not offer a nylon sound.

Still, will be interesting to see what evolves over the next year from Fishman.

Bob



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Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2012, 02:45:56 PM »

Quote
Could put the Fishman on a Line 6 Variax and have the acoustic guitar sound and use a Sonic Cell or similar or PC software or iPad for the organ, etc sounds, but last I heard Variax does not offer a nylon sound.

You could get a Variax Acoustic 700  - this does have a decent nylon modeled tone, and install the Fishman Tripelplay on that and drive a Laptop and have what you need..

Its a bit of shame that Line6 restricts the modeled nylon guitar to the Variax 700 Acoustic 

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2012, 02:52:40 PM »

You could get a Variax Acoustic 700  - this does have a decent nylon modeled tone, and install the Fishman Tripelplay on that and drive a Laptop and have what you need..

Its a bit of shame that Line6 restricts the modeled nylon guitar to the Variax 700 Acoustic 

(Image removed from quote.)

Thanks.  Didn't know about the 700 / nylon tone option.

Bob
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Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2012, 03:24:20 PM »

Reading posts around the web about the Fishman TriplePlay, - apparently many folks are under the false impression that this will provide a wireless GK13 connection to VG-99  / GR-55.
 
Just a reminder - the $299 version of the TriplePlay provides simply a MIDI Data output signal to your DAW / softsyth host program via its USB Dongle. Your DAW  / softsyth host program will "see" the TriplePlay as a MIDI Input device.

ALL Synth SOUNDS heard in the TriplePlay NAMM demos are being generated by Apple Logic Instruments, or Korg Microstation Synth.


Even the full bore advanced future version of TriplePlay, a 13 pin Output signal is never mentioned as something on the drawing board for for future versions.


Seems some folks need a refresher on :

"What is MIDI?"

"What is GK13?

"What is Audio?

"What is a MIDI Controller"?



 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 06:09:34 PM by Elantric »
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Orren Merton

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2012, 03:51:23 PM »

The idea of going wireless is really appealing but...

The two main tones we use in playing music at church are acoustic and nylon guitar.  I get really nice usable acoustic and nylon sounds using a GK equipped RR Strat and VG-99.  Also use the GR-55 for organ, synth pad, strings, flute and piano tones.

BTW, all of those sounds (except the acoustic guitar) that you mention are available as part of the default sample instruments included with Logic Pro ($199, Mac App Store). As a Logic user, I use Logic as my example, but if you're a PC user I'm sure that Sonar or Cubase offer you similar sampler instruments (both of which are excellent also).

These sample sets do come with acoustic guitar, but they don't do strumming. You'd need a 3rd party instrument for that. Fortunately, there are also great software instruments such as Real Guitar that can do very good strumming. That costs extra however.

So you could use something like the Fishman Triple Play on an electric guitar and use your laptop with your DAW + Real Guitar. Or you could use an acoustic guitar with a regular acoustic guitar pickup for true acoustic sound and a Triple Play for your MIDI.

Speaking of going wireless, while our focus here is on the MIDI, Fishman also was showing another new product, a very high resolution (24/96, excellent for acoustic guitars) the Nomad digital audio wireless system.

Musikmesse 2011: Fishman Nomad Wireless System

So even without the Triple Play carrying the audio from an audio pickup via USB, you can still go "totally wireless" with Fishman gear. Admittedly, if you go this route, it will be quite an expensive summer for you if you have to buy a Triple Play, Nomad, Logic Pro, etc. But from a technical point of view, at least we're at the point where it's all becoming possible!

Orren
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 06:56:20 PM by Elantric »
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Orren Merton

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2012, 04:03:44 PM »

Reading posts around the web about the Fishman TriplePlay, - apparently many folks are under the false impression that this will provide a wireless GK13 connection to VG-99  / GR-55.

On a similar but related topic, I remember that someone had posted links to a "rack mounted variax" (was it for Adrian Belew?). I wonder if the technology exists to build a wireless transceiver that could take the signal from a 13-pin system and send it to a 13-pin receiver—effectively removing the 13-pin cable from the equation.

If I were to guess, the people who are experts in wireless technology are not that interested in 13-pin systems, and the people who are experts in 13-pin systems are not experts in building wireless transceivers receivers.

That said, maybe I should ask some experts? I finally met these guys at NAMM: http://widigitalsystems.com/ Hmmmm....

Orren
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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2012, 04:06:40 PM »

Orren,

Thanks for the Real Guitar tip.

I see they have a nylon fingered "guitar".  ;D

Bob
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Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2012, 04:26:23 PM »

There are multichannel wireless audio transmission chipsets just now emerging from a few IC vendors, but everyone of these systems introduce at minimum 12 milliseconds additional latency for a one way trip of 6 audio signals from transmitter to receiver.

This is in addition to the typical 10-20 milliseconds latency for any Guitar to MIDI conversion process - equates to a total latency of 25 to 35 milliseconds even for the fastest Guitar to MIDI system available today. Wireless to GK-13 is not going to make many MIDI guitarists very happy.

But I admit quite a few folks could live with this latency, simply for the freedom wireless provides on stage.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 04:35:16 PM by Elantric »
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Alex Fediakov

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2012, 06:32:42 PM »

Hi everyone, I am new for this forum and Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI really got me excited. I been waiting for this forever. Does anyone knows how much signal latency this thing has compare to Roland GK3? What is the working distance?
Here is some of my Midi Guitar setup -
 

Cheers!
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Elantric

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2012, 06:46:13 PM »

Details are here:
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3444.25

Quote
The same measurement for the new "TriplePlay"
wireless guitar synthesizer (will be introduced at the winter NAMM) has a
thin Gauss curve centered at 15 msec, with the tails at 12 and 17 msec. Only
two notes were 18 and 19 msec, 98% was below 17 msec."


I recall reading approximately 30 meters (100 feet) max distance for the wireless link.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 06:50:30 PM by Elantric »
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Alex Fediakov

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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2012, 02:15:56 PM »

100 feet is good, now I have to check it out if latency will be short enough to use it instead of wired ones.
Thank you!
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Re: Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI
« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2012, 09:15:55 AM »

 I am looking at the Fishman TriplePlay and it seems to me to be, for me at any rate, a problematical product.


 1) If I correctly understand it, then if I want to use a GK-compatible device (VG, GR, whatever) simultaneously with the Fishman TriplePlay, then I need to have that TriplePlay device mounted in an RMC/Graphtec etc piezo-equipped guitar. That's disappointing because I have an RMC-equipped Brian Moore which I really really hate and have been thinking of selling. But it's my only piezo-equipped instrument. Ugh.
 The Axon will not be going on eBay, it seems.
 I do not think that I have a single guitar that I would want equipped with midi at the expense of its VG-capabilities.
 (Edit: now that I think about it, a guitar with an internally-mounted GK would also be suitable. But that requires either modifying a non-GK guitar or buying a Roland-ready or similar guitar, either of which is a far cry from being able to easily "GK-ify" pretty nearly any guitar you want - and quite a bit more expensive.)


 2) I quote this from the other thread: "the new WGS6000 TripplePlay wireless guitar synthesizer (will be introduced at the winter NAMM) has a thin Gauss curve centered at 15 msec, with the tails at 12 and 17 msec. Only two notes were 18 and 19 msec, 98% was below 17 msec."
If I'm not mistaken, the Axon's latency is 6ms. Well I am pretty sure about this although I don't feel any desire to track down a source or citation at the moment. I listened to the three videos in the previous thread but I would not even guess what the latency was; I don't see how someone could make a judgment without actually playing it. But I am pretty sure that the Axon has better latency.

 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 06:57:39 PM by Elantric »
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