Supervee Bladerunner

Started by aliensporebomb, January 13, 2012, 08:28:01 PM

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Vade

#150
Well that Mag Lok seems like a great fix for bridge/pitch stability and I'll probably jump on it at some point. I've been looking around quite a bit at different guitars and setups and I'm leaning towards the xtSA/FTP setup because I can't seem to find a non luthier solution to using a GK-3 with FTP; absent a double wart setup. It'll probably force me to improve my technique which seems a good thing all in all. I can't see why a GP-10 couldn't be used with a VL3 and fed into the FX-150 which is arriving this afternoon.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#151
Its all boils down to playing technique.
My right hand always rests on the bridge of my guitars bulk of the time - for string control and muting.  I own a few Floyd Rose guitars with full floating bridge, but some are far more touchy compared to others.
For example, 7 months ago thru Thomas Nordegg, I had the opportunity to actually play one of Steve Vai's Ibanez Jem guitars, and while this might have been someone else's idea of a great guitar experience dream  -  in my case I found Vai's iBanez JEM  horribly impossible to play "in tune" with my technique,  as anytime I plucked any string on this guitar with full floating bridge, I had the classic "self oscillating diving board sound" (similar to the Warner Bros Cartoon "Wylie Coyote hitting a wall" sound. And for me it was very tough to play, as most of the time  all notes sounded 1/4 tone sharp, because my right hand palm muting the bridge always forced the bridge to "tilt" sharp.    Very unpleasant experience for me , and reminded me everybody has a unique playing technique and guitar setup.       

Vade

Having only played electric guitar for less than a year I suspect my technique will be shaped in some degree by my rig at first. I just want to get the rig built and then shift my concentration almost fully to technique, repertoire, and theory. My current outline is VL3 for vocals, guitar effect/amp modeling, and looping. GP-10 for guitar effect/modeling, alt tuning, and basic synth. FTP into ios for larger ambient synths, samples, and control via setlist etc. (MAC upgrade likely down the road) I'm linking it all via iconnectmidi4+ and Softstep 2 and I may add the iconnectaudio4+ when it arrives. But the heart of the system will be complete when I get a GP-10 and what's holding that up is the guitar decision. I just don't see a better option than the xtSA even with the piezo rather than the gk. I'm ready to pull the trigger on the GP-10 today. Am I missing something?
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#153
For me the xtSA with FTP is quite capable guitar, but only after I replaced the junk stock tuners with planet waves 3*3 locking tuners
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/planet-waves-auto-trim-tuning-machines-3-per-side


and worked the tremolo (added a Maglok) (or simply have a good Luthier add a Tremolo Block "Stop" that forces the tremolo on the guitar to support down pitch bends only.)

Another alternative is this:

Tremolo Stopper /b]
http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/S-T220

Brass tremolo stopper. Used as a floating bridge stop for Fender and Floyd Rose style tremolo systems. Prevents inadvertent vibrato effects produced by resting the picking hand over the bridge while playing. Allows for down-bends and prevents up-bends for a stabilized return of the whammy bar. Allen screw can be easily reversed to allow for a floating bridge setup again.

Includes:
(1) brass block (1.05" L x .39" W x .49" H)
(1) allen key, 2 mm
(1) allen screw (M4 x .70 thread, 20 mm length)
(1) hex nut (M4 x .70 thread)
(2) countersunk mounting screws (10 mm length)

Vade

The xtSA has a hidden advantage compared to anything else I might buy and that's you finding, fixing, and posting solutions to problems before I'm aware they even exist;) The xtSA it is and I rather like the Mag Lok mod; I'll build my technique around getting used to the center indent with its pro and cons. Time to go check out my new FX150 which was just delivered! As usual I'm in your debt Steve. Thanks for helping me out.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

QuoteAs usual I'm in your debt Steve. Thanks for helping me out.

Ha! You are welcome! - although know there are many here who turn that phrase into this:

QuoteAs usual I'm in CONSTANT financial debt thanks to you Steve! Thanks again for providing that link to that new expensive must have toy which was the last straw that forced my wife to leave me.

Vade

Not an issue. She who must be obeyed is so grateful that I've been pulled out of game world she's erected a small shrine in your honor and lights votive candles daily ;D
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

oddguitar

Quote from: merman93 on July 17, 2014, 03:15:24 AM
Check here for info on Goldo

http://joe.emenaker.com/TremStabilizers/BackBox.html

And for $30.00 plus s/h, here is the reviewers ebay listing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Goeldo-Goldo-Backbox-Tremolo-Stabilizer-/141289473289?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20e5824509

My Mag-Lok is also sitting on a shelf.  I can't stand the center detent.  Doesn't the Goeldo Backbox also have a center detent?  My understanding is that all trem stabilizers have a center detent.  I find that a center detent makes it impossible to subtly shimmer chords.  For me, the whole fun of a trem (besides dive bombing) is going slightly above and below the note(s) to add the classic vibrato shimmer.  A trem stabilizer makes me feel less "connected" to the strings and have less control over the vibrato if that makes any sense.  For this reason I have basically given up on the idea of a trem stabilizer.  Incidentally,  I have a Trem King that is also sitting on my shelf because of the center detent.  I also had a StepMax trem that suffered a change in feel when transitioning between the resting point.  I am a huge fan of electric guitar hardware innovation, so I'll try just about anything new, but so far I haven't found a trem stabilizer that doesn't take the joy out of using the tremolo.  Please let me know if any of you have come across such a thing.

-oddguitar

Elantric

#158
Myself - I'm moving towards Bigsby or Jazzmaster type tremolos - these provide a stable bridge for palm muting, but also allow the up / down chord shimmers
Maybe I'm nuts but I'm considering installing a bigsby on my xtSA and add rubber mutes for the length of string between the Bridge and the Bigsby

Ive even considered getting a used Godin LGX, and swapping out the RMC guts from my 2012  xtSA, and add a Bigsby type vibrato


EDIT:

DONE - and this suits my playing style 1000% better than any Strat Style Tremolo

Here is my 2013 Godin LGX-SA with GFS Xtrem - I Love it!
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Xtrem-Top-Mount-Vibrato-Four-Finishes_c_376.html






This month I'm installing my internal GK-KIT-GT3 on this  - my 2012 PRS SE Hollow with Bigsby




mbenigni

QuoteFor me, the whole fun of a trem (besides dive bombing) is going slightly above and below the note(s) to add the classic vibrato shimmer.  A trem stabilizer makes me feel less "connected" to the strings and have less control over the vibrato if that makes any sense.

Makes all the sense in the world to me.  There is always going to be something lost when you impede the motion of a trem.  Just like there's always something lost you apply noise gating or reduction to an audio signal.  That isn't to say there aren't good times/places/reasons for these products, but you have to accept that there's a tradeoff.  I can see having a 2nd strat with the MagLok installed to improve tuning and harmony (and maybe MIDI tracking) while still allowing for most whammy bar ornamentation, but for my main player, I can't deal with it, for the reasons you cite.

QuoteMyself - I'm moving towards Bigsby or Jazzmaster type tremolos

I'm new to the Bigsby thing (spent most of my life trying to make non-locking strat-style trems play like Floyds, actually) but lately my friends are all coming around with Bigsby-equipped Gretsch guitars, and - what do you know - I love the feel of them.  They're especially great for the sort of smooth, close-to-center, shimmery chord work oddguitar is talking about.  My only concern with Bigsby's is getting them set up properly so that they stay in tune, don't throw strings out of saddles, etc.

whippinpost91850

Kahler Tremsetter for Kahler Floyd(if still available) has a center detent but only effects trem when arm is in the down locking position. Could solve your issue .

Vade

Well I'm hoping to order a 13 pin guitar within the next week and was all set to order the xtSA but now I'm not so sure. Modding the right guitar with an internal GK and adding my FTP as a wart is certainly something I'd consider and I'm really hoping to come up with a plan pretty quick here. I suspect there is no "perfect" solution but if I'm going to drop a couple of grand on a GP-10 and 13 pin guitar I'd like to figure out what's one of the best solutions, as of summer 2014, for my first 13 pin guitar. So would the string length behind a Bigsby wreck the tracking? Could it be dampened as Elantric suggested? What say you guitars masters. Inquiring minds want to know!
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#162
QuoteKahler Tremsetter for Kahler Floyd(if still available) has a center detent but only effects trem when arm is in the down locking position.

I inherited a Kahler Tremsetter for Kahler Floyd - but it only has 90% of the parts

Sadly the originals have been long out to production, and no longer available.

Some parts pop up from time to time, but its in my "Floyd Rose project box of parts.

http://www.wammiworld.com/x2710.php



EDIT  - Luckily member Whippingpost (Paul) read my post above and sent me the missing parts  - and I installed this into an Asian "AcePro" SuperStrat   - works like a dream! 

Elantric

#163
Quote
Well I'm hoping to order a 13 pin guitar within the next week and was all set to order the xtSA but now I'm not so sure.

Rule number #1

"There is no perfect guitar for all needs"

It all depends on user preference - and what works best for the way YOU work.

Read my posts which document my path - and my priorities for my guitar may not be appropriate for anyone else.

I own two xtSA's purchased during an Amazon December sale for $525 each  - mostly because the RMC parts alone are worth that much.

I find any "Strat type - floating tremolo" guitar impossible for Guitar to MIDI  - for all the reasons I mentioned   
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5152.msg87199#msg87199

whippinpost91850

#164
Quote from: Elantric on August 06, 2014, 08:19:08 AM
I inherited a Kahler Tremsetter for Kahler Floyd - but it only has 90% of the parts

Sadly the originals have been long out to production, and no longer available.

Some parts pop up from time to time, but its in my "Floyd Rose project box of parts.

http://www.wammiworld.com/x2710.php


Let me know I bet I have several of these tremsetters brand new  in the package . Paul ;D

Vade

The Bigsby discussion did catch my eye and so I stopped by my local Sam Ash and looked over a number of different models and nothing they had in stock appeared to be a great candidate for a Gk-3 plus FTP installation. The xtSA still looks like my best bet although the lack of "shimmer" with a Mag Lok installed is off putting. I'd love to be able to custom order from some of the incredible luthiers I've seen showing off their craftsmanship and have an instrument built with internal GK plus FTP; but the sticker shock is something I'm unlikely to get past. As far as a Gk internal retrofit goes I'm not seeing anything that just jumps out at me as a great tremolo platform for the GK internal install plus FTP wart. I know full well there's no perfect solution that will work for everybody. I'm just hoping to get a quality instrument that covers as many bases as possible in my price range. The xtSA may well be the best that can be had at the moment.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

#166
QuoteThe xtSA may well be the best that can be had at the moment.

The xtSA is a fine instrument, and if you dig strats, so is a used Roland-Ready Stratocaster.  These can be found pretty cheap - sometimes as low as $400.  The newer GC-1 is a good value, too, if you find the right one. (Some are a little dead sounding.)

I wouldn't let the MagLok question hold you up.  Plenty of people are using GK guitars without any sort of trem stop - Fender and Godin designed and are selling them as such, after all.  I'd start with a guitar you like, and add a MagLok only if you find that it's necessary.  And if something is lost in the process, take it back off again.  Worst-case scenario, you're out $60 or whatever - less, if you manage to resell the part.  Believe me, you'll waste more in hours overthinking this.

Guitar:  After a certain point, trial and error is the only way.  MagLok:  I'm embarrassed to keep regurgitating the same folksy "wisdom", but don't fix problems you haven't had yet.  There are far too many!!!

Vade

#167
Thanks for chiming in Marc. I almost bought an xtSA six months ago when we first talked about it but I didn't find the Roland gear compelling at the time as there seemed to be too many tradeoffs. The Boss GP-10 strikes me as a game changer and my view of what I want in a rig has changed. In retrospect my SRV Strat was good as an introduction to the magic of tubes but it's too limited for what I'm wanting to do these days; I can't even mod it without wrecking its value and Strats in general don't seem like a good bet for what I have in mind. I'm thinking, that as of summer 2014, having both 13 pin and FTP on my guitar puts the tools in my hand that I know I want. The bridge pick-up of a Strat would seem to block having both hex pick-ups installed. Perhaps a good luthier could pull it off? I know ShawnB had a double wart set up and my assumption is that it worked out for him as regards the two hex pick-ups not generating significant interference. I'm not all that intersted in going double wart. So I either go with a piezo that will have room for my FTP (like the xtSA) or I find a guitar that I can retrofit with an internal GK and add my FTP wart. I just wanted to look into finding a guitar that could be modded for two hex pickups. If I can't find one I'll just go with the XtSA and call it a day.

Edit: ShawnB confirmed that he experienced no significant interference from the proximity of the GK hex pick-up to the Fishman Triple Play hex pick-up when he installed both near the bridge.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

This is of course all down to your personal budget, preferences, etc. but if it were me, I'd tackle the process incrementally.  It's tempting to stare at the blank canvas for weeks, months, years, trying to engineer that perfect solution that "does it all".  I wasted lots of years in exactly this kind of holding pattern.  In actual practice, I find it makes more sense to find an available solution that best meets your needs, and add from there as necessity presents.  A 100% perfect rig doesn't exist, and the ideal is a moving target anyway.  In this case, I think it's very likely that the GP-10, with the GK compatibility you get out of the box with an xtSA, would meet your guitar-to-MIDI needs.  With the FTP, you'd likely want a laptop in your rig anyway; the GP-10 to laptop with softsynths is a pretty good substitute, and already paid for with the simpler build.

I could be wrong; you might be absolutely uncompromising in your needs here.  But even if you do wind up improving your rig with the FTP down the road, you already know you want a GK-ready guitar and a GP-10, so why not start there and see how far you get?  You may be able to get the job done with that much alone.

Sorry if I'm just projecting here - my inner minimalist never shuts up.  :)

Vade

#169
I actually already own/love the FTP and so it's the 13 pin guitar that's being added in this increment. I'm just very interested in the superior guitar models and alt tuning of the GP-10 because of the way my guitar style has developed in the last year. Since I'm getting a 13 pin guitar I just want to think it through and not ignore the possibility of an internal GK mod (with the FTP wart) being a better solution. This has all happened since the GP-10 reviews started coming in and I'll probably pull the trigger on a guitar and GP-10 by Monday.



Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

QuoteI actually already own/love the FTP and so it's the 13 pin guitar that's being added in this increment.

Ah, sorry - I completely missed that angle and got it all backwards.   Nevermind...  ::)

Vade

Are you kidding? You never owe me an apology. Your advise had a lot to do with shaping the great rig I've been playing since New Years and I'm incredibly grateful for your time and unselfish sharing of your expertise. This community absolutely rocks...
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

Very generous, Vade.  Thanks!

Vade

#173
There is a short discussion about Mag Lok pads starting about 3:30 and Super-Vee suggests they need tweaking to avoid a center detent.



SuperVeeBladeRunner
2 years ago
in reply to blippy41

THE BUFFER PAD IS THE KEY TO A SMOOTH RETURN AND RELEASE. IF YOU ARE HEARING OR FEELING A DETENT WHEN BENDING OR RETURNING, YOU SHOULD TRY A DIFFERENT/THICKER BUFFER MATERIAL. IF YOU HAVE A FLOYD ROSE, THE LEVERAGE IS MUCH GREATER AND YOU MAY HAVE TO REMOVE THE BUFFER TO MAINTAIN THE HOLD...IN THAT CASE, YOU WOULD FEEL A SLIGHT DETENT.

blippy41
2 years ago
THIS DEVICE WORKS NO DIFFERENTLY THAN ANY OTHER TREM STABILIZER. IT CANNOT DEFY THE LAWS OF PHYSICS: THERE IS A DISTINCT "HITCH" & AN AUDIBLE CLICK WHEN THE MAGNETS CATCH AT THE NEUTRAL BALANCE POINT. IT IS NOT UNDETECTABLE WHEN YOU WORK THE BAR. PLUS, IT DOES NOT HOLD THE BRIDGE IMMOBILE WHEN DOUBLE-STOPPING AT THE 12TH FRET AND HIGHER THOUGH IT'S ACCEPTABLE AT LOWER FRETS, AND IT DOES HOLD THE BRIDGE STABLE WHEN PALM MUTING. IT IS MUCH EASIER TO INSTALL THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER STABILIZER UNIT.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

admin

post a pic of this "buffer pad" - never seen one on the Mag-Lok I have.