VG-99 - Crystal Shimmer Effect [Version I]

Started by aliensporebomb, December 22, 2009, 04:03:45 PM

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aliensporebomb

Update:  March 16, 2013: 

This whole thread was a (then) in vain search for the shimmer effect popularized by Brian Eno and U2 amongst others.

Description: Description: PATCH NAME: Pod Crystal Shimmer

Version: 4.0

Category: Clean

Style: Rock Fusion

Description: Attempt at crystal rain patch ala Bill Ruppert.  Not entirely successful but not bad actually.

FileType: mid

Keywords: Rock Ballad, Eventide H3000, Synthy
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

feloniouspunk

#1
Alien, is this the right patch?  when i load it, it is named BIG KLEEN and doesnt sound like the mp3 example.  just curious.  thanks.
Lots of Gear. :)

Brent Flash

Quote from:  aliensporebomb
Ugh.  I used "Big Kleen" as a jumping off point but saved it I thought.  Working...
Yes, if you don't hit ENTER after you rename the patch it will go right back to the old name. This has got me many times when I am not paying attention. Also something else that gets me is while I am writing a patch I will be playing around with it and save it with the controls set to a state that is not how I want it to come up when selected. So I always test it by going to another patch after I save it and coming back to it to see if it comes up right. This can still not work right if you have the CONTROL parameter set that carries over your controller settings. All these things can be expected in a device as complex as this one. I still love it after all these years!

germanicus

ALL my user presets are overwritten. I wish I had more space! Im constantly overwritting cool stuff.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

maxdaddy

Nice. I'm gonna try to find an excuse to use this patch at church in the next few weeks.

Elantric

#5
QuoteThe basic foundation of the Brian Eno / Daniel Lanois shimmer sound is fairly simple: Create a feedback loop, incorporating a pitch shifter set to +1 octave, and a reverb with a fairly long decay time.
Correct!


Or use gear that has those type patches built in - like Line 6's Verbzilla, M9, M13, or Digitech Expression Factory with XP300 Space Station patch.   

Quote
But the trick, or secret, is not to use the VG-99 pitch shifter in the banks of effects but to use the B side of the preset using the one octave up tuning because the polyphonic pitch  shifter is going to be substantially cleaner and better than the somewhat glitchy harmonist or
pitch shifter in the effects banks.  Does anyone else agree?
+1 !!

Speaking of feedback, I recall many advanced signal routing discussions specific to the VG-99 (on other since discontinued forums) , where we talked about using an external cable, and taking the VG-99's "A Chain"  Output, and sending this back into the VG-99's 1/4" "Normal Guitar Input, and "parallel process" using the VG-99's "B Chain".


There's lots of FX / Sound Design flexibility already inside the VG-99 , but becomes truly mind blowing once you expand it with a few external cables.  Add the VG-99's  re-routable  / user assignable USB Audio Send and Receive points in the VG-99's signal path and ability to augment further using real time computer hosted effects of a VSTi or VST FX plugins and  . . . . .    !!

aliensporebomb

#6
OK - here is the patch I've updated. 

It's been a long, long time since I've messed with it and realized I was completely on the wrong track with how this one is done. 

It's still not the super-clean hi-fi version of the patch Bill put together back in the day but it's a start.  But its still cleaner than any of the stompbox renditions I've heard and is more akin to the AxeFX renditions.  It kind of sounds like an icy flanged Farfisa organ in spots alongside your guitar.  I also added a detuned low E for a bass component.

My understanding is this [the clean hi-fi version] can all be done in the VG-99 without external processing. 

I haven't messed with it in a while but was working on it today and got a kind of low-res type of version of this patch that sounds similar to what people have gotten with the VerbZilla/Eventide Space/Octoverb/ and EHX pedals.  But cleaner.

Attached is a patch for playing around with and an MP3 of what it sounds like.

If anyone wants to try and get it closer to the real thing be my guest.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

#7
Quote from: Elantric on August 25, 2011, 02:26:03 PM
Correct!


Or use gear that has those type patches built in - like Line 6's Verbzilla, M9, M13, or Digitech Expression Factory with XP300 Space Station patch.   
+1 !!

Speaking of feedback, I recall many advanced signal routing discussions specific to the VG-99 (on other since discontinued forums) , where we talked about using an external cable, and taking the VG-99's "A Chain"  Output, and sending this back into the VG-99's 1/4" "Normal Guitar Input, and "parallel process" using the VG-99's "B Chain".


There's lots of FX / Sound Design flexibility already inside the VG-99 , but becomes truly mind blowing once you expand it with a few external cables.  Add the VG-99's  re-routable  / user assignable USB Audio Send and Receive points in the VG-99's signal path and ability to augment further using real time computer hosted effects of a VSTi or VST FX plugins and  . . . . .    !!

[update 2021 - this isn't quite correct past me!]
I thought of using an external cable going from A to B but then also realized two other things: the 99 lets you side-chain by routing A to B electronically inside the device but the suggestion Steve made here I thought would only be monophonic.   *Unless* one takes another set of dual outputs on the 99 and uses that for stereo.  I can't believe I didn't think of that too. 

I've got some new programming ideas afoot too. 

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

admin

My only issue is the name of the patch

" Pod OTS Shimmer Test.mid " --

it sat on my hard drive and finally got deleted because with the name "POD",  I assumed this was a Line-6 POD "off the shelf"  patch

mooncaine

Quote from: aliensporebomb on April 10, 2017, 05:34:02 PM... the 99 lets you side-chain by routing A to B electronically inside the device ....
Wha? I'm still puzzled. How do you do that inside the device? I want to try it! I'm looking at the settings in the editor app and can't see how you get signals from A *in* to B.

admin

Quote from: mooncaine on April 10, 2017, 06:28:07 PM
Wha? I'm still puzzled. How do you do that inside the device? I want to try it! I'm looking at the settings in the editor app and can't see how you get signals from A *in* to B.

Speaking of feedback, I recall many advanced signal routing discussions specific to the VG-99 (on other since discontinued forums) , where we talked about using an external 1/4" cable, and taking the VG-99's "A Chain"  Output, and sending this back into the VG-99's 1/4" "Normal Guitar Input, and "parallel process" using the VG-99's "B Chain".


There's lots of FX / Sound Design flexibility already inside the VG-99 , but becomes truly mind blowing once you expand it with a few external cables.  Add the VG-99's  re-routable  / user assignable USB Audio Send and Receive points in the VG-99's signal path and ability to augment further using real time computer hosted effects of a VSTi or VST FX plugins and  . . . . .    !!

mooncaine

Oh, OK... we still have to use a patch cable to get A's signal into B?


mooncaine

Thanks. Had me worried for a few minutes there that I was even stupider than I had already previously suspected. ;)

I kept squinting at those settings, wondering, what the heck?

aliensporebomb

#14
Yes that is possible but there is also another way.  Built into the box.

You can use the A/B link feature in the editor.  Wait, what's that?  It gets glossed over a lot. 
Bill Ruppert used that feature to tame the spring reverb model so it didn't clang so much and it worked (guitar, amp, effects and such on A then set up the spring reverb model on B).   So, you can use it to "sidechain" in a way like you can in DAW software apps.  But there's other things you can use it for too.

What it looks like in the editor:


That little button.  A/B Link.  Click it.  Then click it again.  With it off, you get A and B separately.  With it on .......

Well think about that a second.... 

Edit:  Lots of patches allow you to mix a combination of signal path A and signal path B separately and that's pretty powerful and cool (yes that means layering two different sounds simultaneously as we've heard before) but did you know you can route A-B as setting the tuning and bend for the two guitar paths?   

And by doing that, it allows you to route the paths in a way that isn't easily done just by using A and B separately - it unifies them.    And Ruppert was still able to use that feature to sidechain the spring reverb.

Routing effects in multiple orders until you find one that makes you say "hey, what on earth was that?" - it's cool.  Another thing: I frequently use the polyphonic pitch transposer as an effect.  I just pitch things up or down or thereabouts and process the daylights out of it.

Any questions?  Beuller?  Beuller?





My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

mooncaine

WHOA!!! My head was already splitting open (incredible allergy headache) but now, kaboosh, it's blown.

You can only do that with the VG-99 Editor, right? Ugh, I've clicked that before and forgot all about it.

Thanks loads, mate!

admin

#16
Quote from: mooncaine on April 10, 2017, 08:55:41 PM
WHOA!!! My head was already splitting open (incredible allergy headache) but now, kaboosh, it's blown.

You can only do that with the VG-99 Editor, right? Ugh, I've clicked that before and forgot all about it.

Thanks loads, mate!

See VG-99 Owners Manual page 26


mooncaine

Ah, thanks.

Oh, I got too excited & misunderstood. This does not route the sound from Channel A into Channel B. It only links the Alt. Tuning choice and Bend settings.

Oops! ::)


aliensporebomb

#19
Which is how I do some of my "tricks" for programming.   I didn't mean to mislead - yes you can use the external cable as previously described.   I still need to do that.

But with A-B link - once that's selected look at what you have here:



Look at what you can do with that (unifying the tuning/bend for each guitar path) - and then adding pitch detune or 12-string simulation on (pitch that thing up or down and process it and use the pitch transposed signal as the "effect" and process!)

Take a patch you already have and turn A-B on/off and listen to the difference.  There's so much you can do with this.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: admsustainiac on April 10, 2017, 06:12:21 PM
My only issue is the name of the patch

" Pod OTS Shimmer Test.mid " --

it sat on my hard drive and finally got deleted because with the name "POD",  I assumed this was a Line-6 POD "off the shelf"  patch

Sorry about that.  Pod was a family nickname so it was a way to identify a patch from me in only 3 characters.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

admin

I'll rename it "ASB_Shimmer" locally
ASB   = AlienSporeBomb


Smash

#22
Quote from: aliensporebomb on April 11, 2017, 05:04:05 AM
Which is how I do some of my "tricks" for programming.   I didn't mean to mislead - yes you can use the external cable as previously described.   I still need to do that.

But with A-B link - once that's selected look at what you have here:



Look at what you can do with that (unifying the tuning/bend for each guitar path) - and then adding pitch detune or 12-string simulation on (pitch that thing up or down and process it and use the pitch transposed signal as the "effect" and process!)

Take a patch you already have and turn A-B on/off and listen to the difference.  There's so much you can do with this.

You can do all that on a individual A or B basis - all that happens is you get one dual set of controls with link - anyone using the PC editor will (should) be aware of this. You have to use an external patch cable to do A into B - it's the only way.

I think maybe you were talking about using COSM B as an effects only channel? (probably best not to do the Bueller? Bueller? thing just in case of times like this lol :D)

I am looking forward to some new patches from you tho - way overdue *hint* - if ever I demo the VG99 to anyone it is guaranteed I'll use one of your patches at some point ;)

mooncaine

It's all so clear to me now.

Gotcha. Thanks!

admin