Author Topic: VG-99 - Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG  (Read 4945 times)

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Offline aliensporebomb

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2011, 08:46:12 AM »
All:  the video finally uploaded - the original one I uploaded is STILL processing!  I deleted that one.

This is a private video for the time being, if you all think it's okay I can make it public:


Let me know what you think I should re-do for the final version.  The real issue for me is that when I start the camera it takes a few moments for it to "ramp up" so it cut off some of the initial words I spoke.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 09:01:56 AM by aliensporebomb »
"this is aliensporebomb" - my instrumental debut with the vg99 now on itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/this-is-aliensporebomb/id391880218
More online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

My VG-99 based music projects:
http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

Offline Brent Flash

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2011, 09:44:42 AM »
Let me know what you think I should re-do for the final version.  The real issue for me is that when I start the camera it takes a few moments for it to "ramp up" so it cut off some of the initial words I spoke.
Good video but....I am not sure you truly understand what the bug does. This is my opinion and please don't take this personal. A better way to demonstrate what happens with the NYLON model is to finger pick a D chord or even the high strings open, very lightly, while showing your fingers picking. At a point the strings will stop sounding as if the volume was turned off. To get them to sound again you will have to pick harder and then they will start sounding again.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:26:20 AM by Brent Flash »

Online Elantric

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2011, 10:15:16 AM »
Quote
Good video but....I am not sure you truly understand what the bug does. This is my opinion and please don't take this personal. A better way to demonstrate what happens with the NYLON model is to finger pick a D chord or even the high stings open, very lightly, while showing your fingers picking. At a point the strings will stop sounding as if the volume was turned off. To get them to sound again you will have to pick harder and then they will start sounding again.

+1

Offline aliensporebomb

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2011, 10:31:41 AM »
Oh then I did experience it once - you'll notice I do an ascending legato run up the high e string and NOTHING happens.  Let me re-do then.  Video taken down for rev2.

I just notice that you really need to use a lot of force to enunciate the notes, if you use light touches like I do with the more crazy legato video with the ES335 model towards the end it will simply not sound if I did it on the nylon model.

Good ideas - stay tuned for rev2.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:36:32 AM by aliensporebomb »
"this is aliensporebomb" - my instrumental debut with the vg99 now on itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/this-is-aliensporebomb/id391880218
More online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

My VG-99 based music projects:
http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

Offline Brent Flash

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2011, 10:51:22 AM »
Yes, you can set the COSM MODEL to STEEL and pick the B string very lightly and it will sound with the lightest of touch with a pick or your finger even be able to hear the pick (or finger) scrap the string. Then try the same thing switching the COSM MODEL to NYLON. The string will stop sounding except for the faintest of sound like a distant reverb then as you hit the threshold (whatever that is) the string will suddenly sound again and continue to sound until it decides to quit again. It is kinda unpredictable and sometimes makes you think you just missed the string. Very annoying if you are trying to play something very soft and expressive.

Offline steadystate

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2011, 01:49:31 PM »
The string will stop sounding except for the faintest of sound like a distant reverb
In my case, this is the sympathetic vibrations of the three bottom strings (which aren't affected by the bug).

Amazing isn't it?  When you pick the top strings, the sympathetic vibrations induced in the three bottom strings are quite audible, while the directly-picked top strings are simultaneously inaudible.  And yet Roland claims nothing is wrong here.  I find this insulting.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 02:10:18 PM by steadystate »

Offline aliensporebomb

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2011, 12:52:59 PM »
Update to my original update - see new message.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 10:18:49 PM by aliensporebomb »
"this is aliensporebomb" - my instrumental debut with the vg99 now on itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/this-is-aliensporebomb/id391880218
More online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

My VG-99 based music projects:
http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

Offline alexmcginness

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2011, 08:08:49 PM »
This is a bug I reported when the unit first came out. Only a few others noticed it....most did not. I tune my guitar to Eb which may add to the problem. The nylon in the 99 is just a toy. I use my ol 88 to record any nylon stuff I need.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP.

Offline aliensporebomb

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2011, 10:35:12 PM »
The levels issue and guitar to midi issues I had previously are resolved. 

I'm not sure I can adequately display the nylon hysteresis bug via video.  I can see someone at Roland tech support saying "stop playing so lightly then!".  Well, some of the lightness of touch is idiomatic to the classical guitar style.

My experiment tonight was with Brent's "Flash Nylon" patch.

But it seems that a good capability that has a problem isn't being addressed.  Or they think it's "good enough".  Realistically with all of the advertising for new products Roland might think "what benefit would we achieve by fixing a problem that affects a minority of users?"


"this is aliensporebomb" - my instrumental debut with the vg99 now on itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/this-is-aliensporebomb/id391880218
More online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

My VG-99 based music projects:
http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

Offline alexmcginness

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2011, 09:53:18 AM »
do you tune to Eb?
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP.

Offline aliensporebomb

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2011, 01:47:28 PM »
I personally do not - I usually tune to standard and do any detuning in the box.  It just makes for a more simplified setup.  The only reason I would detune is for a specific mechanical reason and I haven't really done that with this box.

Maybe I should try it and see if it gets worse?  That might explain things if the instrument is playing outside of the frequency range where the VG is expecting it to be.
"this is aliensporebomb" - my instrumental debut with the vg99 now on itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/this-is-aliensporebomb/id391880218
More online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

My VG-99 based music projects:
http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

Online Elantric

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2011, 02:29:49 PM »
On my VG-99, all I have to do to duplicate the Nylon patch note drop out bug problem is play a guitar with GK-3 with string sensitivity at 20-30 range, then fingerpick ( flesh on strings - no nails or finger picks) old Beatles Dear Prudence tune.

The G string typically drops out randomly, and once it's dead, I must pick the string very hard to make it clear it's throat and make sound again.

It's like there's an internal poorly adjusted polyphonic noise gate, one per string, that becomes enabled during the Nylon patch and not all strings are set correctly. I call it a bug, and after telling Roland about it for 5 years, they claim they can not reproduce the problem, therefore the gatekeepers never informed the actual DSP code writers in Japan that any problem exists.

But I found you can overcome it by raising your Gk String Sensitivity to "65" or above.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 12:34:24 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline alexmcginness

Re: Nylon String "Hysteresis" BUG
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2011, 10:11:00 AM »
you got it. Same exact issue here as well. One of the nay sayers who could not reproduce this flaw is Bill Rupert!
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP.