Author Topic: FC300 - Using one button to switch rhythm/lead sounds or any two patches.  (Read 4766 times)

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Offline Brent Flash

OK, what this is about is, I wanted to be able to go from one patch to another using one patch button on the FC-300. I don't feel comfortable playing live, dancing on the buttons, and looking at my feet to see what button to push. I do feel fairly comfortable knowing if I have to switch to another patch I just push the one already lit and I will be there. This would allow me to use (for example) a clean sound then switch to a lead sound and back using one button. I would not have to remember what button I need to go back to because it would be on the same button (that is lit up) making sure they are in the same bank of 10 and on the same button, 1/6, 2/7, 3/8, 4/9, 5/10. Using the FC-300 in SYSEX mode does not allow you to do this. Or maybe I just have not found out how to do it in SYSEX mode but so far no deal in SYSEX mode.

What I have come up with may be a way to do it. I have Karis to thank for pushing me to start actually looking into doing it. And so far I have had some success even though it is a lot of work and planning getting it set up.

Maybe a lot of you already know about this but it is new to me.

So here is what I have come up with. You use SYSEX mode and STANDARD mode. I will probably use SYSEX because it shows me what is going on with the VG-99 but to switch back and forth from patches I need in the same song I will use STANDARD MODE.

The first thing you have to do is go into the UTILITY menu of the FC-300 and PARAMETER over to the "SYS: MODE Pdl Seq" parameter. Here you will find it set like this "STD-CC-SYS-PAT" and you will want to change it to this "STD-cc-SYS-pat". Now when you change modes pushing both the MODE buttons or bank buttons, it will toggle between SYSEX mode and STANDARD MODE. In STANDARD MODE the patch buttons will toggle switch you from 1/6, 2/7, etc., when you press them if the UTILITY menu parameter "SYS: Bank Step" is set to "10STEP"

So all is well and good except for the fact that now that we are in STANDARD MODE and it is toggling 1/6, 2/7, etc., it is not getting all the controller events (EXP 1, EXP2, CTL 1, CTL2) because we are now in a standard MIDI mode. We are getting PROGRAM CHANGE but none of the controllers are set up to be controlled by CC#. This is where the work comes in. You have to go into every patch and set them in the CONTROL ASSIGN pane to control volume, effects on and off, etc. This is not that hard but it does take some time and if you know these default setting of the controllers it makes it easier.

EXP PEDAL 1, CC#7, Range 0–127
EXP PEDAL 2, CC#1, Range 0–127
CTL PEDAL 1, CC#80, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
CTL PEDAL 2, CC#81, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
EXP PEDAL SW 1, CC#82, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
EXP PEDAL SW 2, CC#83, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
CTL3, CC#76, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
CTL4, CC#75, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
CTL5, CC#10, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
CTL6, CC#91, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
CTL7, CC#11, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
CTL8, CC#64, Range 0–127, MODE-LATCH
EXP PEDAL 3, CC#76, Range 0–127
EXP PEDAL 4, CC#10, Range 0–127
EXP PEDAL 5, CC#11, Range 0–127

If anyone needs help with this just let me know. Hope this is useful to some of you using the VG live.  :)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 05:52:16 PM by admsustainiac »

Offline Brent Flash

I have discovered something that may be of interest to anyone that is trying this. When you set up the switches to turn on for example WAH. You have to leave them on MOMENT. If you put them on latch you have to press it twice to get it to go off. This is what is happening with the default setting anyway, you may be able to set the switches to operate differently in the UTILITY menu but I think I will leave it like this because it works fine. The light indicates it is on and goes off when it is off so I am OK with it.

Offline Elantric

Excellent work!

BTW - the high end Digitech Gear (GSP-2101 with Footcontroller)) works like this - so glad you found a way to program this in with our VG-99 / FC-300 rigs.

Though looking at the steps - I see I will nag Roland at NAMM show to add the ability to copy Control Assigns from Patch to Patch - for the next firmware Update.


Offline Brent Flash

Excellent work!
Thanks Steve!
Though looking at the steps - I see I will nag Roland at NAMM show to add the ability to copy Control Assigns from Patch to Patch - for the next firmware Update.
Yes, I sure could use something that makes this process a little faster. It is not too bad since I am in the same pane of the editor going back and forth from FC-300 to ASSIGN. But it is working and that is good.

One thing I am finding out though is if you change the VG from it's front panel the FC-300 will not follow until you hit the mode back to SYSEX. I still think this will work better for me using it live.

Offline Brent Flash

Here is something else I ran into. If you are using any of the extra CTL pedals for CTL 3, CTL 4, etc. they default to EXP type in the Utility menu of the FC-300 and should be changed to CTL. This is done by hitting the UTILITY button and scrolling with the right parameter button till you get to "SYS:E3/C3 TYPE". The default is EXPRESSION PEDAL and you will need to change it to CTL. Now if you are using an external expression pedal leave it the way it is.

Offline Brent Flash

I have been running into some difficulties with the ASSIGN HOLD parameter. It seems to hold over into other patches (I guess like it is suppose to) and has been giving me some trouble when I want the patch to reset with some things off they are not. It really makes you have to think about what is more important. The volume you have set on EXP 2 carrying over to any patch you switch to or being able to switch to a patch that has some things turned on when you want them off. I still think I can use it but it won't be as elegant as I had invisioned.

Another thing is when you go to SYSEX mode and change to another bank, then go make to STANDARD mode the FC-300 is on the patch you left it at in that mode. This may be handy but I think I would rather it follow the VG to whatever bank it is in. I may be able to connect a MIDI cable from the VG to the FC and have it follow that way but I am not sure.

More to come.

Offline Brent Flash

Re: Using one button on the FC-300 to switch rhythm/lead or any two patch
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 09:29:49 PM »
I may be able to connect a MIDI cable from the VG to the FC and have it follow that way but I am not sure.
More to come.
Well it happens that the FC-300 does not recognize Program Change # on its MIDI in, only SYSEX mode so the MIDI cable is out.

So now it is getting the patches I use on the 1/6, 2/7, 3/8, positions in each bank. The Librarian software is coming in very handy for that.



Offline Karis

Great work ! I will surely program it tomorrow.


Though looking at the steps - I see I will nag Roland at NAMM show to add the ability to copy Control Assigns from Patch to Patch - for the next firmware Update.


Could you ask them to add the "10 step" feature in sysex mode ? It would solve many things and i'm sure it's pretty easy to implement for them...

Offline Brent Flash

Great work ! I will surely program it tomorrow.
Thanks Karis! I am having success with this method. The only things that are a little tricky are not being able to use the ASSIGN HOLD feature. I have too many unexpected states when switching from patch to patch so I had to turn it off. It would be nice to have a way to exclude some controllers from this so you could at least keep volume carrying over from patch to patch.

Also if you are in SYSEX mode and get a few banks away from where you were in STANDARD mode and then switch back you will be back where you were then. (EXAMPLE: Lets say I am on bank one patch one in STANDARD mode. Then I switch to SYSEX mode and go to bank five patch 23. If I switch back to STANDARD mode the FC-300 will still be on bank one patch one but the VG-99 will be on patch 23 until I hit a patch button. Then it will switch to one. Go back to SYSEX mode and you will still be on one.) Any time you go from STANDARD mode to SYSEX you will be in the right place. But when you go from SYSEX mode to STANDARD you will be where you left it last. Clear as mud?  ???

Anyway I am happy to be able to switch back and forth between two sounds with one button. Sure makes it easier to keep track of where I am.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 11:43:21 PM by Brent Flash »

Offline Brent Flash

I have been running into some difficulties with the ASSIGN HOLD parameter. It seems to hold over into other patches (I guess like it is suppose to) and has been giving me some trouble when I want the patch to reset with some things off they are not. It really makes you have to think about what is more important. The volume you have set on EXP 2 carrying over to any patch you switch to or being able to switch to a patch that has some things turned on when you want them off. I still think I can use it but it won't be as elegant as I had invisioned.
Here is an update to this thread. When using STANDARD mode I have found that if I turn on an FX with a CTL then switch patches, I have to hit the CTL twice the next time I use it to make it work. If I turn it on then back off and switch patches I only have to hit it once. I am seeing this pop up in other threads with other controllers so this must be a common problem when not using a foot control that has SYSEX mode like the FC-300 has.

Offline bob e

Brent, This seems pretty complicated and confusing tom me; the switching between MODES of the FC300.  Perhaps, this reflects my hobbyist status vs. your professional musician & technition accomplishments.  I am writing not to complain, but to thank you for your ongoing efforts to contribute to the knowledge base of newbies like me.  I've benefited from many of your posts and patches.  Several of them are in my 5 favorite settings.  I just wanted to take this moment to thank you for sharing what you learn be it simple or complex.  I wish I lived nearby so I could meet you, listen to you play, and hire you to be a VG99/midi/music tutor.  Do you ever come to the NYC/Boston area?  Wanna come over and get a hansome consultants' fee???

Thanks again,

MIDIme aka Bob E. from CT

Offline Brent Flash

Brent, This seems pretty complicated and confusing tom me; the switching between MODES of the FC300.  Perhaps, this reflects my hobbyist status vs. your professional musician & technition accomplishments.  I am writing not to complain, but to thank you for your ongoing efforts to contribute to the knowledge base of newbies like me.  I've benefited from many of your posts and patches.  Several of them are in my 5 favorite settings.  I just wanted to take this moment to thank you for sharing what you learn be it simple or complex.  I wish I lived nearby so I could meet you, listen to you play, and hire you to be a VG99/midi/music tutor.  Do you ever come to the NYC/Boston area?  Wanna come over and get a hansome consultants' fee???
Thanks again,

MIDIme aka Bob E. from CT
Hey Bob,
Sorry it took so long for me to respond to your post. I intended to do it promptly and it slipped my mind. First, thanks for the kind words, I have been having fun with this device and love helping others have fun with it too.

Second, yes, this topic is more complicated than it has to be IMHO. I guess the guys that designed the FC-300 had their reasons for making it work the way it does. For me this makes it easier when performing but not easier when writing patches since I have to duplicate the control settings to work both in SYSEX mode and in STANDARD mode.

Third, I would love to meet all the members that actively contribute to this forum. It would be great if we could set up some sort of get together some time in the future just to do that. The Steinberger forum guys meet at NAMM every now and then. Maybe we could do that too one day.

I do go through that area every now and then but it is usually passing through on tour, short stopping through the area. In the mean time you could ask questions here and I would be happy to try to answer them.  :)

Thanks for the offer too!  ;D

Offline vanceg

Here is an update to this thread. When using STANDARD mode I have found that if I turn on an FX with a CTL then switch patches, I have to hit the CTL twice the next time I use it to make it work. If I turn it on then back off and switch patches I only have to hit it once. I am seeing this pop up in other threads with other controllers so this must be a common problem when not using a foot control that has SYSEX mode like the FC-300 has.

Isn't this just a case of the CTL sending out a togging 0 and 127?  So, when you press CTL to turn on an effect, it sends a "127" message - thus turning the effect on. Then you switch patches. Then you hit CTL again and, since it has no clue that you have switched patches (and doesn't care) it dutifully toggles to a value of "0" and sends that "0" to your effect in this new patch. Since "0" means "Off" to that parameter, the parameter stays in the Off position. If you hit the CTL again it sends a value of "127" and your effect turns on. 

Might that not be what's going on?  Have you run the FC-300 signal through a MIDI monitor application to see what values it is sending out?

Vance

Offline Vic1iful

Vance, do you know of any free midi monitor applications that can be downloaded and used off the computer? TIA


Offline Vic1iful

Thank you my friend.

Offline Brent Flash

Isn't this just a case of the CTL sending out a togging 0 and 127?  So, when you press CTL to turn on an effect, it sends a "127" message - thus turning the effect on. Then you switch patches. Then you hit CTL again and, since it has no clue that you have switched patches (and doesn't care) it dutifully toggles to a value of "0" and sends that "0" to your effect in this new patch. Since "0" means "Off" to that parameter, the parameter stays in the Off position. If you hit the CTL again it sends a value of "127" and your effect turns on.
Yes, that is why SYSEX MODE for the FC is so cool. It can determine the state of the switch and also hold over from one patch to the other and still show you the state of the switch. When using STANDARD MODE on the FC or using any of the other controllers I am starting to think that latching switches (not ones that electronically latch but physically latch) with indicatory lights (I hate these because they need a battery) should be used for the best results.

Might that not be what's going on?
Yes, but how do you get it to work in a different way, so that you do not have to keep track of how you leave your switches when you switch to another preset. That is the question I would like to figure out. For now I am just ready to hit it again if the switch does not do what I want the first time I hit it. Not the best I know.
 Have you run the FC-300 signal through a MIDI monitor application to see what values it is sending out?
Yes I just use ProTools to see what gets recorded from the MIDI IN. That is how I was testing the MIDI CC#7 = VALUE 100 bug back when it was first reported. Those issues are the worst thing about not getting a Firmware update IMHO.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 11:58:48 AM by Brent Flash »

Offline Elantric

For reference - this is a known FC-300 / VG-99  "bug"
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=692.msg18023#msg18023
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 01:53:33 PM by Elantric »

Offline Brent Flash

For reference - this is a known FC-300 / VG-99  "bug"
http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=692.msg18023#msg18023

Additional info. This bug is only when using MONO mode in the GUITAR TO MIDI section. If you use POLY in the GUITAR TO MIDI section the VG does not send the unwanted CC#7 event.