Poll - Would you buy a new Roland "VG-100" COSM Guitar / Amp / FX Modeler?

Started by Elantric, April 08, 2015, 03:37:23 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

vanceg

Yes, I would.

I now have 2 VG-99's because I am so convinced of this technology and that I'll want to use this amazing tool for many years to come. 

I'd buy a VG-100 even if it had very few new features but included just slightly updated and revised versions of the existing feature set. 

I just have zero interest in the "simplified" newer products like the GP and GR series.  I love the dual engines of the VG-99.

I personally like the table top form factor, but I'd be open to floor unit. 

If I did get new features:

I LOVE the ability of the GP to route 6 channels of audio to and from a computer via USB...this was a feature I asked for BEFORE the release of the VG-99 and was told it would "likely" be in the final product. It was not.  I would hope it would be in a VG-100. 

I'd be thrilled if they added more Poly Effects (like the PolyRing Mod that is in the VB99).

It would be awesome if EVERY effect and amp model in the VG-100 would be polyphonic (one instance per string).  AT LEAST make all of the COSM effects and Amp models STEREO so that string panning you do on the COSM Guitar models would carry through to the output...as it stands, as soon as you apply a amp model, everything drops down to Mono again.  Booo.

It would be great if the "freeze" feature would trigger independently on each string (right now it's a polyphonic effect: it has a separate instance per string but it is triggered on all of the strings at the same time). 

There really ought to be more User tunings available (I'd like to switch between multiple User defined tunings easily, without changing presets).

I'd love much more delay time and a proper Looper built in.

I could absolutely go off about more features I'd love but I really do mean it that I would buy a VG-100 if it had the same features but just updated with some minor improvements.

But, again, overall, the VG-99 is still an amazing product and I'll use it for years to come.  But if Roland wants more of my money - It's here for the taking if they release a new flagship.   I couldn't care less for a "simplified" product.   

vanceg

Quote from: mbenigni on April 10, 2015, 11:36:29 AM

- Just dreaming:  A new cable/ connector standard that's more reliable than the familiar 13-pin GK cable.  Optical?  Wireless?  I have no idea - just something that doesn't make me vaguely nervous all the time.


On the new guitars I'm designing, I'm using a Lemo connector on the guitar side, and either a 13pin on the VG-99 side or I'll run to a little converter box which just converts the (very sturdy) Lemo B-Type connector to 13pin DIN on the other side. I'm sick and f-ing tired of 13pin DIN.

http://www.lemo.com/en/standard-range/b-connector-0?domain=%5Bterm_node_tid_1%5D

mbenigni

QuoteOn the new guitars I'm designing, I'm using a Lemo connector on the guitar side, and either a 13pin on the VG-99 side or I'll run to a little converter box which just converts the (very sturdy) Lemo B-Type connector to 13pin DIN on the other side. I'm sick and f-ing tired of 13pin DIN.

This is a fantastic idea.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: vanceg on May 13, 2015, 08:42:27 PM
On the new guitars I'm designing, I'm using a Lemo connector on the guitar side, and either a 13pin on the VG-99 side or I'll run to a little converter box which just converts the (very sturdy) Lemo B-Type connector to 13pin DIN on the other side. I'm sick and f-ing tired of 13pin DIN.

http://www.lemo.com/en/standard-range/b-connector-0?domain=%5Bterm_node_tid_1%5D

Awesome idea!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Cups

I May be alone in this but I think it would be rad if they made smaller, specialized boxes. Ones that can hook up to one another smartly with maybe a special controller. This way you can pick and choose the features you like. Imagine a guitar modeller and then amps, effects etc.....
It would be more expensive in the end and would take up a lot more room on a board but think of the flexibility.

gumtown

Quote from: Cups on May 14, 2015, 11:11:22 AM
I May be alone in this but I think it would be rad if they made smaller, specialized boxes. Ones that can hook up to one another smartly with maybe a special controller. This way you can pick and choose the features you like. Imagine a guitar modeller and then amps, effects etc.....
It would be more expensive in the end and would take up a lot more room on a board but think of the flexibility.
Like these discontinued pedals?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Frank

Quote from: vanceg on May 13, 2015, 05:48:11 PM
Yes, I would.

I now have 2 VG-99's because I am so convinced of this technology and that I'll want to use this amazing tool for many years to come. 

I'd buy a VG-100 even if it had very few new features but included just slightly updated and revised versions of the existing feature set. 

I just have zero interest in the "simplified" newer products like the GP and GR series.  I love the dual engines of the VG-99.

I personally like the table top form factor, but I'd be open to floor unit. 

If I did get new features:

I LOVE the ability of the GP to route 6 channels of audio to and from a computer via USB...this was a feature I asked for BEFORE the release of the VG-99 and was told it would "likely" be in the final product. It was not.  I would hope it would be in a VG-100. 

I'd be thrilled if they added more Poly Effects (like the PolyRing Mod that is in the VB99).

It would be awesome if EVERY effect and amp model in the VG-100 would be polyphonic (one instance per string).  AT LEAST make all of the COSM effects and Amp models STEREO so that string panning you do on the COSM Guitar models would carry through to the output...as it stands, as soon as you apply a amp model, everything drops down to Mono again.  Booo.

It would be great if the "freeze" feature would trigger independently on each string (right now it's a polyphonic effect: it has a separate instance per string but it is triggered on all of the strings at the same time). 

There really ought to be more User tunings available (I'd like to switch between multiple User defined tunings easily, without changing presets).

I'd love much more delay time and a proper Looper built in.

I could absolutely go off about more features I'd love but I really do mean it that I would buy a VG-100 if it had the same features but just updated with some minor improvements.

But, again, overall, the VG-99 is still an amazing product and I'll use it for years to come.  But if Roland wants more of my money - It's here for the taking if they release a new flagship.   I couldn't care less for a "simplified" product.

I agree with all of this.
One thing I'd like to add is the desire to have a polyphonic pitch shifting delay, you can hear a similar non polyphonic idea in 'Ballerina' by Steve Vai.
To get an idea of what I mean, (if you have a VG-99):

  • Set up both channels with identical modelled sounds (no mag guitar, at least not on the channel to be delayed).
  • On one of the channels, insert the delay block at the beginning of the chain and set the mix to 100% wet.
  • Set a delay time to an 8th note for example.
  • Turn on harmony in ALT tunings, set the desired interval.
  • Play arpeggiated chords and hear the delayed polyphonic harmonies/chordal extensions.
I'd also like a feedback control on this delay so one could get closer to a polyphonic version of the classic crystals/shimmer where the delays spiral up/down in pitch.
This isn't currently possible on the VG-99 as there is no way to create a polyphonic feedback loop back to the pitch shifter.

Frank

I'd also like to see a return of the VIO guitar and more advanced parameters such as the 24 resonators from the acoustic modelling of the VG-8EX.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Frank on May 15, 2015, 02:58:16 AM
I agree with all of this.
One thing I'd like to add is the desire to have a polyphonic pitch shifting delay, you can hear a similar non polyphonic idea in 'Ballerina' by Steve Vai.
To get an idea of what I mean, (if you have a VG-99):

  • Set up both channels with identical modelled sounds (no mag guitar, at least not on the channel to be delayed).
  • On one of the channels, insert the delay block at the beginning of the chain and set the mix to 100% wet.
  • Set a delay time to an 8th note for example.
  • Turn on harmony in ALT tunings, set the desired interval.
  • Play arpeggiated chords and hear the delayed polyphonic harmonies/chordal extensions.
I'd also like a feedback control on this delay so one could get closer to a polyphonic version of the classic crystals/shimmer where the delays spiral up/down in pitch.
This isn't currently possible on the VG-99 as there is no way to create a polyphonic feedback loop back to the pitch shifter.

Crystal Shimmer is possible already on the VG-99 as is:



Unfortunately this forum isn't letting me post the link and it keeps failing.

Bill Ruppert did an even better one.  I can't share the audio but it's spectacular in my opinion.

Though I have no confirmation on this, I suspect he routed audio from A to B and was able to fudge feedback of the polyphonic pitch shifter by using a reverb but I can't be sure (I did a similar trick with my Voxy Valhalla patch).  But listening I wonder if he might have routed audio outside the machine and back in although the audio is full stereo.  Anyway.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

imerkat

I'm one of the very few that said no because of several reasons come to mind;
The GK system- unless they change this entirely, a 13 pin cable is less than ideal at this point in the game. Not very reliable in my opinion
Amps and Cabs- This as been done so well already in other devices
FX- Again companies like Strymon and Eventide have really come into there own I don't see Roland ever putting the same effort into there FX blocks

I would be more interested if they took a crack at a flagship G5. If you cross the technology of a Moog E1 with COSM guitar Engine(s) and built in Polyphonic effects. Get a wireless system and plug it to whatever devices I prefer.. just wishin'  :)

vanceg

Quote from: Frank on May 15, 2015, 02:58:16 AM
I agree with all of this.
One thing I'd like to add is the desire to have a polyphonic pitch shifting delay, you can hear a similar non polyphonic idea in 'Ballerina' by Steve Vai.
To get an idea of what I mean, (if you have a VG-99):

  • Set up both channels with identical modelled sounds (no mag guitar, at least not on the channel to be delayed).
  • On one of the channels, insert the delay block at the beginning of the chain and set the mix to 100% wet.
  • Set a delay time to an 8th note for example.
  • Turn on harmony in ALT tunings, set the desired interval.
  • Play arpeggiated chords and hear the delayed polyphonic harmonies/chordal extensions.
I'd also like a feedback control on this delay so one could get closer to a polyphonic version of the classic crystals/shimmer where the delays spiral up/down in pitch.
This isn't currently possible on the VG-99 as there is no way to create a polyphonic feedback loop back to the pitch shifter.

I too would like this feature. Right now I just use the Harmonizer in the FX chain which DOES have a delay associated with it.   But yes, absolutely.

vanceg

You surely don't need Polyphonic pitch to do a crystal shimmer effect - You can just use the delay in the Pitch FX block, no?  I mean, the original Eventide Crystal Shimmer isn't polyphonic....

Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 15, 2015, 07:09:35 AM
Crystal Shimmer is possible already on the VG-99 as is:



Unfortunately this forum isn't letting me post the link and it keeps failing.

Bill Ruppert did an even better one.  I can't share the audio but it's spectacular in my opinion.

Though I have no confirmation on this, I suspect he routed audio from A to B and was able to fudge feedback of the polyphonic pitch shifter by using a reverb but I can't be sure (I did a similar trick with my Voxy Valhalla patch).  But listening I wonder if he might have routed audio outside the machine and back in although the audio is full stereo.  Anyway.

Now_And_Then

Quote from: imerkat on May 15, 2015, 10:27:36 AM...companies like Strymon and Eventide have really come into there own I don't see Roland ever putting the same effort into there FX blocks

Not to hijack the thread but I am actually more interested in the SY-300's FX sections than its synth engine. (Whether this interest will survive hands-on experience with the device, or even survive a reading of the manual, is another question, of course.)

Frank

Quote from: vanceg on May 15, 2015, 11:13:02 PM
You surely don't need Polyphonic pitch to do a crystal shimmer effect - You can just use the delay in the Pitch FX block, no?  I mean, the original Eventide Crystal Shimmer isn't polyphonic....
I agree, it isn't polyphonic but the point of my wish was (polyphonic/hexaphonic), I own an H9 and have the Crystals and Shimmer alogrithms and as much as I love them I'd like a polyphonic version, imagine the rich timbres such algorithms could render.
Also consider the 12 string section of the Alt tunings page, with longer delay time and a feedback loop back into the pitch shifter.
Poly up/down or both detune/full intervals, I think that would be great and not that much work for Roland (although I agree it's unlikely).


aliensporebomb

A lot of the shimmer effects on stompox style effects I hear are kind of coarse and not very high-fi.

The one I did on the VG-99 is pretty rich and hi-fi sounding but the one Ruppert did was richer yet.  He knows a lot of tricks revolving around parallel fx processing.  He always said something that kind of struck with me and I remembered it in that he said "Think of the A-B channels as a parallel effects line!  Kind of like thinking horizontal instead of vertical."

The trick is with shimmer is that the polyphonic pitch shifter for example B is always the front of the chain.  This introduces challenges.



My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

Dont forget the other VG-99 "tricks  - (Must use a 13 pin guitar !)


1 ) Extend the available VG-99 FX blocks-  Connect a guitar cable from the VG-99 Left 1/4" main Output and feed it into the 1/4" Normal Guitar input. Opens up new sounds

2 ) Mono Insert FX Loop = Use the strategy in above - but swap the guitar cable for any third party effect
 

Also read
* Use Laptop as Virtual VG-99 Expansion for Advanced Processing. ( VST/AU FX plugins)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1667.msg9135#msg9135



QuoteThis is really cool because if you think for a moment this opens crazy possibilities. You can actually define from which portion of the 99's signal chain you want to send the signal from over the USB. If you send it right after say COSM A, then you actually can use completely different amp modelling and effects simultaneously in the 99 (by reactivating the 99's direct monitoring), and use completely different amps and effects in your software, route that back into the 99, and you have another complete layer of modelling. Its the ultimate 'expansion' for the 99. Use whatever software guitar modeller you want. My head is spinning now.

mike_e

gp10 is a really nice virtual guitar processor.

And i also would love a COSM VST plugin !

Elantric

Pure speculation

Gundy Keller reports

Quoteinsane times here ... went to japan for some new development, came back and the work-tsunami won´t stop.




Who knows what 2016 Winter NAMM might bring -
Gundy is up to something new


vanceg

Quote from: Frank on May 15, 2015, 02:58:16 AM

I'd also like a feedback control on this delay so one could get closer to a polyphonic version of the classic crystals/shimmer where the delays spiral up/down in pitch.
This isn't currently possible on the VG-99 as there is no way to create a polyphonic feedback loop back to the pitch shifter.

Me too!  I do the same trick with the two channels of the VG-99.

vanceg


Now_And_Then

 It's been literally years since Roland / Boss released something that really grabbed my interest: the SY-300 was the first product since the VG-99 that seemed that it might be useful for me - and I'm am not really enthusiastic about it, only kind of lukewarm. (Part, but only part, of this might be due to a reason that I will discuss in another post in the SY-300 forum...)

clearlight

I would be happy with the updates from the gp10 applied to the VG99 somehow , although I doubt this is a possibility.
Who else makes anything like the COSM instrument modeling? I know of only Line 6 and I'ce heard something about Antares doing some modeling.
Is it just between Line 6 and Roland?
Its a shame with all the available processing power that there doesn't seem to be much available.
SO many possibilities these days.
EDIT:
I just checked out the Antares ATG1 videos. The pitch effects seem solid but the models didn't seem like anything my VG99 could'nt do as well or better.
Especially if it had the newer GP10 models added.

How on earth can a company be sitting on such awesome technology and do so little with it. All the new products seem like VG99 "pieces" split up and updated a bit.
Makes me sad
My Music
My Band Website
GUITARS: 2x RG1521, 3x RG321 w/gk, Rg721 Fretless Modified, AmStd FatStrat w/gk, various others....
XV5050,Triton etc..
KOMPLETE 7
VGUITAR Stuff: VG99, FC300, RC5-

yuri

I avoided buying, Helix, Kemper, Ax 8 etc  - but  Roland VG 100 , I voted Yes! My desire is an compatible function with  FTP.

Cups

A GP10xl would do it for me. Add an extra fx block and another row of footswitches and I'm good.

Redvers

For me it would have to be floor based, complete dual cosm path, plenty of fx, two expression pedals, pcm sounds, an fx loop for sending guitar to an amp like on the gt series. Oh and more poly fx. A hexa delay with six different bpm synced times would be awesome.