GR-55 volume jump switching patches - solved!

Started by Jim Wintringham, April 18, 2013, 03:20:42 PM

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Jim Wintringham

I am trying to smooth out the volume transition, when changing patches. What I am experiencing is a big volume drop when I move the Pedal...like it goes to the '0' level, not good for live play. I am getting around the problem by quickly taking the pedal full heel, then back up. It looks like the system assign hold 'on' is supposed to keep the same level of volume as I switch patches (like if the pedal is in the 'middle' of it's range...the volume would be in the middle on the next patch I switch to). And then, be controlled from that point ( no level drop when I move the pedal...just a smooth level change). Am I understanding the function of the system assign hold 'on' correctly? If so, is there another setting that I need  to make for the result I am after? ???
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

Brent Flash


Jim Wintringham

#2
Yes, the one on the system page. The question is still, is there other settings needed to make it work as I wrote in the first post ???
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

Cricket

Assuming you are using EXP primarily for volume, you want assign hold ON, but you may need to tweak individual patch volumes for consistency.

Assign hold remembers the pedal position when you switch patches.  So, if you are using it for volume, you should be in the same position when you change:  i.e.  halfway up, full vol, off &c.   The actual volume is a more subjective thing.

Also, on any patches where EXP is a different function, assign hold will still remember pedal position.  So, if you switched to a patch where, say, it was set to cross fader, if it was full heel vol off, when you switch patches, it will be whatever you have assigned to full heel on the fader... a PCM voice or something.

Hope this helps.

Cricket

#4
Also... if you're getting weird volume jumps and have to rock the pedal to fix, AND you have assign hold ON,  you probably have a conflict in your assigns, f'rinstance both GK VOL and EXP set to patch volume.  I'd check that, too.

For myself, I set GK VOL to tone volume and EXP to patch volume as a rule.  Not always, but it's my default.

Jim Wintringham

I think you have given me the answer...will try it out tomorrow ;D
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

Cricket

One other thing to remember:  SYSTEM settings override patch settings. So unless you're committed to using a given assignable control one way all the time, it's best to have these set to "patch setting."  The only system settings I use are S1 and S2 for inc/dec.   All my others are "patch setting."  Then you assign as desired from MASTER.

Works for me.

Jim Wintringham

Thanks again for the ideas :)
What I have ended up with, is leaving the system assign hold 'off', and just setting my pedal to full 'toe' when I switch patches. The back off to where I want. Most of the time I will be close to full 'toe' anyway. I will normally be using only three patches on a Sunday service, but I had not thought of enabling the GK up/down patch select. I turned that on to bank select...and ended the 'toe tapping bank select'. Your way is much better! ;D
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

seanhogge

I had this exact problem for a short while. I am pretty meticulous about making sure the volume between patches is equivalent so that when I got from acoustic to electric, I don't suddenly overpower my band or disappear.

For me, it was exactly as Cricket describes. I had the synth knob on my Godin LGXT set to patch volume and the EXP pedal set to patch volume. Well, one of them had to win on patch switch, and the GR-55 was choosing the synth knob. Once I changed the knob to tone volume and the pedal to patch volume, I now have flawless patch switching (excepting the 750 ms or so mute transition).

Just wanted to let you know it's possible so you don't have to do the pedal adjustment unless you want to.

Jim Wintringham

I did have some setting conflicts :o  After getting them cleaned up, the system assign hold set to 'on' is working great...I have smooth transitions between patches. I mainly use the 'pedal' for the tone volume, synth patches....and the modeled guitar tone volume controlled by the gk volume knob. I am using the normal pickups set to the 'bypass' option...to the guitar out, and then use my Zoom G2 to apply any effects I want on that output...cabled separately to my Roland kc-300 keyboard amp. :)
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

Jim Wintringham

#10
I was playing around with settings, to see what they do. I changed the SYSTEM HOLD assignment to "off" and found that in the off setting....the patch volumes jumped to "full on" volume when switching patches. Not nice! So I learned to have that setting to the "on" position, to keep things smooth when changing patches :)
Roland GR-55
Wechter Pathmaker PM 7354
Brian Moore i91.13 (China)
Zoom G2
Ventris Dual Reverb
Roland kc-300

Elantric

#11
Assign Hold  is designed to help maintain the current value of the Expression pedal  and  or GK-Volume and maintain levels across patch changes

But know either of these traditional "volume controls" can be totally reassigned to completely different purposes on every GR-55 patch to control many other things  - like Delay Time or Tremolo Depth., or COSM PU "Tone"


*GR-55 Control Assignments
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10677.0



When your live gig patches are obtained from diverse sources,  collisions do occur and Assign hold might not always work for all situations

i prefer to reassign my GR-55 Expression pedal to non volume tasks, and  use a separate dedicated analog stereo Volume pedal on the final outputs of the GR-55,


and then design my live gig patches to have consistent Control Assignments across all patches.


To avoid the long silent gap on  every GR-55 patch change, many resort to  multiple assignment for the different arcs of the Expression pedal range - sweep the pedal in one patch and and get 4 different Guitar tones  - but typically its these patches where "Assign Hold" raises a whole new set of problems and issues. Thats why Roland gave use the feature turn Assign Hold On  or Off - as needed for your specific needs.

==

* GR-55 Ultimate Multi Control patches (solves the GR-55 long Patch change delay (with mute) issue)
Jim Williams GR-55  - Multi Control Patch  (step by step)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5647.msg38806#msg38806



* Guitarplayer_10's  GR-55 Ultimate Multi Control patch (step by step)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7267.msg50612#msg50612

   

* Fast method to reset the patch level

use the EZ edit to set overall patch volumes, then 'write them into memory' ...so that switching between patches keeps the same levels.

tillthen

#12
When I adjust this volume here, and then I hit "write",  It doesn't save the patch volume it reverts back.  Is there anyway of saving these volumes. etc

Elantric

Must press write twice
and be sure you are on a patch in the User Area 

tillthen


GuitarForLife

#15
Hi all, just having a little trouble trying to set my various patches so that they all output at the same volume level. There seems to be a number of settings for volume/gain, but no master??   As a solo act I dont have a front of house guy and would rather not adjust my mixer for every song. In some songs I switch between 'guitar only' and the effect patch and the volume should remain the same, except of course when I want some lead gain.
In summary any thoughts on how to set a master output level which gives the same level for every patch?
Thanks guys!

Mrchevy

#16
Most of your patch mix and levels can be set in the EDIT mode......... EDIT > TONE tab > use scroll wheel and up/down, L/R buttons to navigate to parameter levels. Right above the PCM 1 is PATCH LEVEL, highlight this and use the scroll wheel to adjust. You can further tune your patch levels buy adjusting the EQ level which is at the end of the signal chain.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

JolietJake

Ensure you have "Assign Hold" switched on or the GR-55 wont carry volume parameters between patch changes which can result in sudden volume changes. Check out this:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8375.0

Mrchevy

Quote from:  JolietJake on April 30, 2015, 06:09:55 AM
Ensure you have "Assign Hold" switched on or the GR-55 wont carry volume parameters between patch changes which can result in sudden volume changes. Check out this:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8375.0

if you set your patch levels equally and save the settings by WRITE to memory, you shouldn't have this issue.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

JolietJake

Quote from:  Mrchevy on April 30, 2015, 06:17:02 AM
if you set your patch levels equally and save the settings by WRITE to memory, you shouldn't have this issue.

Yes, but if you have a controller such as the foot controller volume set to half way (for instance), unless you use the "assign hold" function this controller level will not be "carried forward" to the next patch and a patch change will result in a suddenly jump to full volume.

GuitarForLife

 :) Thanks everyone for your fast and helpful responses. I've got a gig tomorrow night  so will play around with these settings in the morning. Ive not used the GR55 live before so am looking forward to the response! Cheers

Elantric

#21
GR-55 F.A.Q.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3137.msg81010#msg81010

* Fast method to reset the patch level

use the EZ Edit to set overall patch volumes, then 'write them into memory' ...so that switching between patches keeps the same levels.



GR-55 volume jump switching patches - solved!
Jim Wintringham wrote>
Quote
I was playing around with settings, to see what they do. I changed the SYSTEM HOLD assignment to "off" and found that in the off setting....the patch volumes jumped to "full on" volume when switching patches. Not nice! So I learned to have that setting to the "on" position, to keep things smooth when changing patches :)

gumtown

I would also check the patch levels at FULL VOLUME, at the level you will play live at.
The level differences between patches will become more noticeable and pronounced.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

JolietJake

#23
Quote from: Elantric on April 30, 2015, 06:58:30 AM
GR-55 F.A.Q.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3137.msg81010#msg81010

* Fast method to reset the patch level

use the EZ edit to set overall patch volumes, then 'write them into memory' ...so that switching between patches keeps the same levels.

Good idea.
It's amazing how much I forget about EZ edit and instead jump straight into menu's to adjust volume or change the tone a little.




katmando64

#24
Hi all, I'm having some issues with programming..Some patches the volume pedal works normally other patches it only works as a volume if i click down hard enough (exp pedal) Very frustrated and have a gig tomorrow night. Any help on how to program patches so that the volume pedal is just that...a volume pedal.  I use it to bring patches in to certain parts of songs and out.. HELP!! lol