GR-55 - Guitar to MIDI "Mono Mode" ( separate MIDI channel per each string)

Started by Elantric, June 29, 2011, 08:52:00 AM

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szilard

Quote from:  Godzizou on October 01, 2012, 08:46:48 AM
You mean that this device will allow me to set either  the Pitch  Bend Range of my  external VST set to +/- 24 (even if limited to +/- 12) or the GR55 to +/- 12 ?

The event processor can map values. So you can map the +/- 24 pbr of the GR-55 to +/- 12 of some synth engine. You can't change what the GR-55 is sending, but you can just look at the +12 through -12 and map that to the whole pbr with software or something like the Event Processor.

Robert

shawnb

Quote from:  szilard on October 01, 2012, 12:35:45 PM
The event processor can map values. So you can map the +/- 24 pbr of the GR-55 to +/- 12 of some synth engine. You can't change what the GR-55 is sending, but you can just look at the +12 through -12 and map that to the whole pbr with software or something like the Event Processor.

Robert

I'd send a quick note to John Fast of MIDI Solutions to confirm this is feasible before purchasing the unit. 

The PBR is a two-byte value, and just implements a number from -8192 to +8192.   It's up to the synths to interpret the PBR, e.g., for the GR55, a value of 8192 = +24 semitones.  But if the other synth is expecting 8192 to mean 12 semitones, then you need to do some mapping/math.   At first guess, I believe you basically want to ignore values from the GR55 that are -8192 thru -4097 and 4097 thru 8192, and double every other value, so the GR55's 4096 for +12 semitones x2 becomes the other synth's 8192 for +12 semitones.   

The problem is that the MIDI solutions processor's mapping features only work on ONE BYTE values, not two. 

Now, I've posed a lot of questions to John Fast, and man is he good at proposing solutions.   I'm sure he has something in mind.  But I'd confirm the solution exists before the purchase!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

szilard

Quote from:  shawnb on October 02, 2012, 09:58:19 AM
The problem is that the MIDI solutions processor's mapping features only work on ONE BYTE values, not two. 

As I said above I'm using the Event Processor Plus to do this. If you select pitch bend as the midi event it has selections for both LSB & MSB. I have a screen capture, but the attachment doesn't seem to show up when I preview. Doesn't hurt to confirm ...

Robert

Godzizou

Thanks for your help.

I ll have a look at GTAK5 as it is cheaper than the hardware solution plus more guitar midi oriented  ;). Furthermore  a demo version is available  8) (with some limitations , like  up to 7 pre chosen Kontakt instruments and the demo was made only for Kontakt 3 users so some errors may occur with Kontakt5).

Cheers,

Godzizou

Hello

Happy new year to everyone  :) !

Just  bought the Gtak. Workw great for circumventing the above mentioned issue and time saving tool on top of that   ;D

Please note however that the demo version of the software does not include the pitch bend remap version, it is only available when you download the software by choosing a custom version of it.

Cheers,


sine_3000

This has always been one of my biggest stumbling blocks.

I like and want to use the USB-over-MIDI ability of my GR-55 to drive VST's on my PC.  But, it seems I have totally lost the ability to do one of the the simplest things a guitarist does - bend the strings, and get a resulting pitch change in the note being played.

Obviously, the PCM synths built into the GR-55 respond to string bends.  But is it possible to get VST's to respond in the same way? 

I have been reading a little bit about the 6-string mono settings.  I am set to mono for MIDI-out on the GR-55, but I usually choose the "omni" settings on any VST synth I am playing.  Would setting up a different VST for every string allow me to send string bend information?  I haven't experimented with that yet.

Anyway, this is HUGE for me, something that has been plaguing me since I first started using my GR-20 to drive VST's.

(Just as a side note, if I can resolve this favorably, and discover the way to pitch bend VST synths via string bends, I might return the GR-55 and get the GP-10.  I think I would rather have the superior modeling of the GP-10, and I could use a laptop for PCM synths, leaving behind the somewhat dated PCM's in the GR-55.)

Help is appreciated!  Thanks.

admin

Suggest read this area of the forums for driving SoftSynths with GR-55 Guitar to MIDI in Mono mode


VGuitar Forums > Related Gear > Guitar to MIDI - USB to Softsynth
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=51.0

HANSEL612

Hey I have a question regarding GR 55 guitar Midi out to GR 20.  I am using mono mode channels 1-6 on both GR 55 and GR 20 while Midi out to GR 20.
Is there any way to mute a particular string (in my case Low E #6) so that it does not trigger GR 20 when I hit that string? I won't mind if that requires to mute it on GR 55 as well. I am not quite sure whether PCM settings on GR 55 controls midi out or not. It seems not. Because, I just tried setting both PCM tones on GR 55 with string level muted for #6 and it still triggers GR20.

HANSEL612


Brak(E)man

Im thinking you can't unless you apply a midi filter in between ,
I've looked in the midi settings and the only thing I can think of
To try is to mute the string in the 55 at system gk input
But of course I might have overlooked something
Why not mute the string hands on ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

HANSEL612

The actual reason for my special situation is because, there is a sitar tone (Under Ethnic section, 2nd tone ) on GR20 which is the best tone of Sitar. It is called "Sitar & Morocco Phrase". But unfortunately, in GR 20, if you select this tone, the 6th bass E string triggers this Moroco Phrase which I don't need. Hence, I would like to use this tone but without accidentally triggering the phrase. I do not use 6th strign anyways for Sitar. The other Sitar tones are not as great as this one except for the 6th string phrase unavoidable. I even tried reducing the string sensitivity on GR 20 to be 0 for String#6 E. But it did not help, revealing that, the sensitivity setting on GR 20 only controls GK going directly into it, not for the Input coming in via Midi IN.

admin

QuoteThe actual reason for my special situation is because, there is a sitar tone (Under Ethnic section, 2nd tone ) on GR20 which is the best tone of Sitar. It is called "Sitar & Morocco Phrase". But unfortunately, in GR 20, if you select this tone, the 6th bass E string triggers this Moroco Phrase which I don't need. Hence, I would like to use this tone but without accidentally triggering the phrase. I do not use 6th strign anyways for Sitar. The other Sitar tones are not as great as this one except for the 6th string phrase unavoidable. I even tried reducing the string sensitivity on GR 20 to be 0 for String#6 E. But it did not help, revealing that, the sensitivity setting on GR 20 only controls GK going directly into it, not for the Input coming in via Midi IN.


A MIDI conversion  / filter box will solve that
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13839.msg130180#msg130180

Brak(E)man

Quote from: HANSEL612 on June 03, 2016, 11:22:42 AM
The actual reason for my special situation is because, there is a sitar tone (Under Ethnic section, 2nd tone ) on GR20 which is the best tone of Sitar. It is called "Sitar & Morocco Phrase". But unfortunately, in GR 20, if you select this tone, the 6th bass E string triggers this Moroco Phrase which I don't need. Hence, I would like to use this tone but without accidentally triggering the phrase. I do not use 6th strign anyways for Sitar. The other Sitar tones are not as great as this one except for the 6th string phrase unavoidable. I even tried reducing the string sensitivity on GR 20 to be 0 for String#6 E. But it did not help, revealing that, the sensitivity setting on GR 20 only controls GK going directly into it, not for the Input coming in via Midi IN.

Did you try gk setting on gr55 turning string 6 to zero ?
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

HANSEL612

Am sure that will work as it won't trigger string E
But it will not let me use that string until I change GK settings back. I was wondering how to cut it just for Midi. Looks like midi filter in between may be the only option.

shawnb

Agreed.  A filter will work.   I use the MSEPP & have several scripts I use for different configurations.  MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus - I like the product & the company. 

Two random thoughts for settings on your GR-20 side....

(1) Transpose up on the GR-20 side.  The benefit there is that you could play all 6 strings.  A sitar has lots of strings...
(2) Adjust channels up on the GR-20 & GR-55 to be offset by 1.  So the GR-20 isn't listening to one of the GR-55's channels. 

I don't have a GR-20 so I can't test these, but they may be worth trying...
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Brak(E)man

Quote from: shawnb on June 04, 2016, 08:18:19 AM
Agreed.  A filter will work.   I use the MSEPP & have several scripts I use for different configurations.  MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus - I like the product & the company. 

Two random thoughts for settings on your GR-20 side....

(1) Transpose up on the GR-20 side.  The benefit there is that you could play all 6 strings.  A sitar has lots of strings...
(2) Adjust channels up on the GR-20 & GR-55 to be offset by 1.  So the GR-20 isn't listening to one of the GR-55's channels. 



I don't have a GR-20 so I can't test these, but they may be worth trying...

Both should work

But 2 is global so it has to be changed back for all other patches , same as cutting gk volume on string 6
Number 1 might work but it'd be a whole octave or it as to be transposed in the gr55 to if used together ,
And sitar has a lot of strings but only four melody strings  often tuned 1, 5th, octave and 4th above octave , reaching about 4 octaves , three comp strings the rest sympathetic strings
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

sine_3000

Quote from: HANSEL612 on June 03, 2016, 11:22:42 AM
The actual reason for my special situation is because, there is a sitar tone (Under Ethnic section, 2nd tone ) on GR20 which is the best tone of Sitar. It is called "Sitar & Morocco Phrase".
Are you sure that the sitar patch with the "Morocco Phrase" isn't just the same patch as one of the other patches, minus the 6th string?

I have a GR-20 and I remember playing and enjoying that "Morocco Phrase" patch quite a bit.  But I also seem to recall that there were two different "solo" sitar sitar patches, in addition to the "Morocco" one, and that one of them was the identical patch used in the "Morocco" patch.

I think if you listen carefully you will realize this is so.  Of course I could be misremembering, it's been a while since I used my GR-20, but I really do seem to recall the identical patch recycled for the "Morocco" patch.  It really does make sense, you know?  Why would Roland go to the trouble to make a brand new patch for one of the "combo" patches -it would save memory to just use a patch already on the device.

HANSEL612

To be frank, there are in total 3 pure sitar patches. But unfortunately, the one on the Morocco Phrase is the one is better for the realistic sitar tone as (1) this is a more full rounded real sitarish tone than a synth'ish/artificial tone (2) The volume level is high on this patch which is important to me (even you were to max the volumn and see the level difference).

As you very well doubted, why should Roland make two patches exactly identical with just a phrase additionally? You are right. The phrase one's patch is different from the other 2 tones.

I have a question on one of the options given to me. "(2) Adjust channels up on the GR-20 & GR-55 to be offset by 1.  So the GR-20 isn't listening to one of the GR-55's channels. ". As of now, I have both GR55 and GR20 set as Midi channels starting from #1. You mean to say, in the midi chanel settings on Let's say GR55, make it start from #2 keeping GR20 same?

shawnb

Quote from: HANSEL612 on June 14, 2016, 11:07:38 AM
I have a question on one of the options given to me. "(2) Adjust channels up on the GR-20 & GR-55 to be offset by 1.  So the GR-20 isn't listening to one of the GR-55's channels. ". As of now, I have both GR55 and GR20 set as Midi channels starting from #1. You mean to say, in the midi chanel settings on Let's say GR55, make it start from #2 keeping GR20 same?

Yes.  Or vice-versa (shift the GR20 up by 1); either will provide only 5 proper channels of overlap.  Experiment. 

Brak(E)man's notes here are valid.  Still, I'd experiment a bit until I found something that worked for me. 

Quote from: Brak(E)man on June 04, 2016, 09:29:12 AM
Both should work

But 2 is global so it has to be changed back for all other patches , same as cutting gk volume on string 6
Number 1 might work but it'd be a whole octave or it as to be transposed in the gr55 to if used together ,
And sitar has a lot of strings but only four melody strings  often tuned 1, 5th, octave and 4th above octave , reaching about 4 octaves , three comp strings the rest sympathetic strings
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

HANSEL612

Wonderful !!!! Let me try and let you know hopefully the good news  :)

Brak(E)man

If you have 55 on midi channel 1 than the 20 should be on 2
If you do it the other way around you want be able to play the first string on 55 and trigger 20
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

HANSEL612

 >:( Unsuccessful . I tried both transposing but it gives me undesired tone from GR20. Then I played around with channel deliberate mismatching.
When GR55 was on channel 1 and GR20 was on channel 2, then the morocco phrase gets triggerd when I play A string !!
When I changed GR20 channel 3 (with GR55 ON 1) , then Morocco phrase came in on D string as I was expecting from here onwards :)
Now, I switched GR55 to be on channel 2 and GR 20 on channel 1. Then problem is solved, but the string that got muted was First string E not 6th string E.
When I changed GR55 to channel 3, then Both 1st E and 2nd B strings got muted as I expected.



Brak(E)man

Then you have two options , turn down string input on GR-55 , it'll almost be the same as changing midi channels since both affect globally , or get a midi filter that can mute the channel string 6 is sending on. Unless there's some way to change the Moroccan phrase , I can't see another way.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

RussM

Can I explicitly set the MIDI channels for each string in Mono Mode?
As best I can tell from the user manual, it's automated and increments based on the selected starting channel.

My new organ emulator (Ferrofish B4000+) HATES default mono mode and I get why.  It's perfectly happy with everything coming in over one channel in Poly mode but simply ignores any sting that doesn't correspond to an external controller assignment when the GR-55 is in Mono mode. This is a shame because it seems like the perfect configuration to take advantage of its fundamental features.

Since it's exclusively a Hammond B3 modeler, the Ferrofish is set up to be connected to two keyboard manuals and an organ pedal board based on MIDI channel.

It can also be set up to split controller "registers" at a specific pitch.  Specific pitch slitting is clunky on guitar because the neck is awash with harmonic equivalents.

Is there a way to explicitly assign the MIDI channels per string so that I can, for example, drive the Ferrofish's pedal register with strings 5 and 6; the lower register with strings 3 and 4 and send strings 1 and 2 to the upper register?

Thanks!

Elantric

QuoteCan I explicitly set the MIDI channels for each string in Mono Mode?
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GR-55_OM.pdf

No - you get to assign the MIDi channel for the high E string, and the other 5 strings will automatically be assigned the next sequential MIDI channel numbers

if you set the GR-55 to be on MIDI Channel 1 , then enable GTR- MIDI and  set up mode to "Mono"

The following MIDI channels will be used

MIDI CH #1  = High E string
MIDI CH #2  = B string
MIDI CH #3  = G string
MIDI CH #4  = D string
MIDI CH #5  = A string
MIDI CH #6  = Low E string

For example - if you want to transmit separate strings on individual MIDI channels (MIDI channels 11 thru 16) - assign the GR-55 to be on MIDI Channel 11 

MIDI CH #11  = High E string
MIDI CH #12  = B string
MIDI CH #13  = G string
MIDI CH #14  = D string
MIDI CH #15  = A string
MIDI CH #16  = Low E string




https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12317.0



Use the GR-55 as a Guitar To MIDI Controller
From the Owners manual:

MIDI Settings
You can make MIDI settings that apply to the entire GR-55, such as
specifying the MIDI channel. For the procedure, refer to "Settings for
the Entire GR-55 (SYSTEM)" (p. 69). For details on each setting, refer to
"MIDI/USB" (p. 79).


See GR-55 Owners Manual page 79
You Must enable GTR to MIDI and set the Mode assignment type:

To Send MIDI Notes from the GR-55
Knowledge Base ID: 105346
Product: GR-55


By default, the GR-55's Guitar-MIDI switch is turned off. To send MIDI notes from the GR-55's USB port or MIDI output, this switch must be turned on.
Here's how to do this.

1. Press EDIT.

2. Press the right-hand PAGE button to the select the SYSTEM tab.

3. Use the cursor buttons to highlight "MIDI/USB," and then press ENTER.

4. Use the PAGE buttons to display the GTR-MIDI tab.

5. Use the cursor buttons to highlight "SWITCH."

6. Turn the dial clockwise to select "ON."

7. Press EXIT when you're finished—the new setting is saved automatically.