GR-55 "Initial Impressions" by new owners.

Started by Elantric, February 04, 2011, 08:03:49 AM

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glennfin

How about a new VG-100 model with a V-synth XT engine build-in!  :o :o

....... I'm setting up to use my V-synth XT with my VG99. (MIDI guitar out from the VG99) That synth is just incredible!

ColonelForbin

My initial impressions are that I am doing something wrong! By that I mean, in the actual (temporary) initial installation of the external GK3 on my JTV59 and the subsequent settings in the GR55, with string volumes / sensitivity, etc, as well as the measurements - I need a finer metric ruler, just winged it with converting inches off a tape measure to metric.

Also, the GC-1 is definitely not "plug and play" with the GR-55, so I need to also do that same settings configuration with the measurements, etc.

Overall, I like it. But I am not sure what is causing such latency. By that, I mean, I hit a string or note on the GK equipped instrument, and there is a very noticeable lag time before the PCM sound is produced. It's very obvious with some PCM stuff, less so with others. I also know it comes down to picking technique, etc.

But my concern is that I intended to use the GR-55 in parallel with my JTV-HD500 rig, and that latency - which I am hopeful I can reduce / eliminate with setting adjustments - is a train wreck. The other issue, is I have no interest in learning to play ahead of the beat to accommodate the latency, especially considering I intend to have the JTV-HD500-DT25 rig going along side, which has no latency.

I am going to do a more exacting test tonight where I can run through some Line6 L2t speakers for the GR55 tones, we'll see how that goes - will be doing a multi-track recording of rehearsal with the guys, so I'll be able to listen back later and hear if that latency is obvious or not.

Like I mentioned elsewhere, if anyone can point me toward a thread discussing the best GR55 GK configuration settings for use with a GC-1, let me know! I will get a metric ruler and try to do a better measurement as well.

Toby Krebs

Those measurements are critical almost more so than the sensitivity settings and must be done as accurately as possible.Know that this will take some time.Time spent playing the GR55 getting to know what it likes and what it doesn't. If you stick with it you will be a better player than you were before.

Good Luck!

Elantric

#978
QuoteLike I mentioned elsewhere, if anyone can point me toward a thread discussing the best GR55 GK configuration settings for use with a GC-1,

On GC-1 set the "GK Scale" to "ST" (Strat) 

Read ALL these GR-55 User created docs (at link below) which explain specific settings for best GR-55 operation 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;cat=18


and

GR-55 patches with lowest latency
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12678.0

Deus02

Quote from: ColonelForbin on October 24, 2014, 08:42:52 AM
My initial impressions are that I am doing something wrong! By that I mean, in the actual (temporary) initial installation of the external GK3 on my JTV59 and the subsequent settings in the GR55, with string volumes / sensitivity, etc, as well as the measurements - I need a finer metric ruler, just winged it with converting inches off a tape measure to metric.

Also, the GC-1 is definitely not "plug and play" with the GR-55, so I need to also do that same settings configuration with the measurements, etc.

Overall, I like it. But I am not sure what is causing such latency. By that, I mean, I hit a string or note on the GK equipped instrument, and there is a very noticeable lag time before the PCM sound is produced. It's very obvious with some PCM stuff, less so with others. I also know it comes down to picking technique, etc.

But my concern is that I intended to use the GR-55 in parallel with my JTV-HD500 rig, and that latency - which I am hopeful I can reduce / eliminate with setting adjustments - is a train wreck. The other issue, is I have no interest in learning to play ahead of the beat to accommodate the latency, especially considering I intend to have the JTV-HD500-DT25 rig going along side, which has no latency.

I am going to do a more exacting test tonight where I can run through some Line6 L2t speakers for the GR55 tones, we'll see how that goes - will be doing a multi-track recording of rehearsal with the guys, so I'll be able to listen back later and hear if that latency is obvious or not.

Like I mentioned elsewhere, if anyone can point me toward a thread discussing the best GR55 GK configuration settings for use with a GC-1, let me know! I will get a metric ruler and try to do a better measurement as well.

I have and HD500/JTV69/GR55 set-up and right from the outset never had the latency issues you describe and if any existed they were very small.  Once calibrated
and set-up according to the instructions the combination works great.  Having said that, the only latency that I, personally, have ever encountered is with some PCM string settings, when used on their own,  have a very slight delay at the beginning of the track, however, since strings sounds sustain, realistically, this isn't really audible to any great degree.  I use a looper bringing sounds like strings in and out of the track, so, when recording it is just a matter of making a slight compensation of when you start strumming to implement the string sound which will be just a hair prior to the start of the beat.  Presets which incorporate a combination of instruments in the setting, (i.e. EPF/335/smoothstrings) work very well.  Other than the above minor issue, for me anyway, everything else works together beautifully.

Give it some time, I am sure everything will work out for you. 




HCarlH

[RANT] LOL

I'm not a new owner anymore....I've had mine since they hit the market.  The band is playing some trio gigs (no key player) so I've pulled mine out for live use again.  I've REALLY tried to make passable COSM amp patches so I could take only the GR-55 and have a simplified setup. After 5 nights of trying other people's patches, EQing, starting from scratch with my own, etc., I've given up.

The clean tones are great!

The heavy distortion tones are ok. Not my favorite sounding distortion, but I could get by with it.
The 5150 Drive amp is not bad. But, I don't use heavy distortion that much with what my band plays.

What I can't stand is the slightly over driven and very mild crunch tones. They are downright awful and sound nothing like a real amp. I've even tried putting one of my really good dirt pedals in front of the GR-55 (Fulltone Plimsoul....guitar to pedal back to GK-3 input) using a clean patch and it just doesn't sound good.

So I've decided to quit wasting time and use my A/B box to go between GR-55 synth/modeled guitars and my Kemper.  The Kemper is just superior.  [/RANT]

Other than THAT....the GR-55 is still fantastic for all of the other things it does so well!
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,

whippinpost91850

"hcarlh"
"What I can't stand is the slightly over driven and very mild crunch tones. They are downright awful and sound nothing like a real amp. I've even tried putting one of my really good dirt pedals in front of the GR-55 (Fulltone Plimsoul....guitar to pedal back to GK-3 input) using a clean patch and it just doesn't sound good.

So I've decided to quit wasting time and use my A/B box to go between GR-55 synth/modeled guitars and my Kemper.  The Kemper is just superior.  [/RANT]

Other than THAT....the GR-55 is still fantastic for all of the other things it does so well!"

Couldn't agree with you more. I spent most of yesterday trying, as you said, other's (some were pretty good)patches and programming my own and just couldn't get the sound !!!
So i'll still carry my Kemper and GR55 to every gig.

Elantric

#982
I get excellent "on the verge of tube breakup tone" from my EHX "OD Glove" pedal - I'm working on modifying one of my GP-10's to include a Normal PU Effects Loop ( pre A/D and DSP) so I can get "the tone" for use with my normal pickups with minimal  floor real estate,  - when I cant bring my Kemper!   
http://www.ehx.com/products/od-glove

mbenigni

QuoteI get excellent "on the verge of tube breakup tone" from my EHX "OD Glove" pedal

+1 - great pedal!

Litesnsirens

I have no trouble whatsoever getting good slightly broken up to mild distortion tones directly from the GR-55.  I have a number of patches like that but I think there are so many variables.  I'm playing through a line 6 stage source pa set up so perhaps that factors in.  I do note that my guitar tones sound far more organic since switching from the Bose L1 pa system to the stage source. 

Another recent discovery that works for me is turning the mic sim settings off on all my patches ie; set to flat.  I make up the difference with the treble on the amp sim.  The thing is, after that, there are so many ways to skin the proverbial cat.  I tend to use the Tweed amp or Marshall '59 I on the low gain setting then driving it from there, or not driving it and keeping it clean at the amp stage and using the natural OD distortion in the MOD.  Then it's down to what guitar model and what pick up, maybe rolling back the guitar volume if it's to distorted (in the box not on the guitar) and then make up the gain in the patch volume.  Like I said so many variables but these bluesy barely broken tones are my fav's in this box.  Just the right grit with great note distinction.

mbenigni

QuoteAnother recent discovery that works for me is turning the mic sim settings off on all my patches ie; set to flat.  I make up the difference with the treble on the amp sim

I found the same thing.  Using the flat mic and then a bit of post-EQ brought everything back to life.  COSM amps still aren't my favorites, but that helped a lot.

chrisnickey64

had mine since august ...logged in zero fun time w/ this thing and sold it today on ebay....maybe in a year or two Roland will come out w/ something a little more like they advertise this to be ...til then i'll just stick the regular guitar .  i spent hours upon hours tweeking and watching tutorial vids trying and trying to make the GR55 play like i see alex huchings and so many other roland shills ...doing smooth piano runs and funky electric piano jams etc ....NOT   ghost notes ,doubling, drop outs etc....made the piano and all keys for that matter useless to me . i know to alter my playing style and i had the GK pup installed professionally by a certified roland tech . the sad fact is the synth tracking technology is not there yet ...when it is i;ll consider giving roland another shot ...til then it's the latency free Electro harmonix B9 organ machine for me

Elantric

#987
FWIW - The Fishman Tripleplay does Guitar to MIDI MUCH better than any Roland system, rarely get an odd note


Latest FTP Video


vtgearhead

I would be interested in seeing a complete and robust portable solution based on the FTP.  Is carrying around a laptop really the only option?

Elantric

#989
QuoteI would be interested in seeing a complete and robust portable solution based on the FTP.  Is carrying around a laptop really the only option?

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12855.0

Quote
QuoteI might think about taking [Fishman Tripleplay]  out [ to live gigs], but as it stands it's a non-starter for me as a portable rig. I just don't like cartage or setup. I guess everyone doesn't like that part, but for me it's a deal-breaker for some gigs.

Hint:

The FTP USB Receiver plugs straight into the Apple USB Camera Adapter for Ipad, and easily triggers low latency IOS Synth and Samplers on my Ipad Mini, wirelessly. Just feed the Ipad Headphone out the Stereo 3.5mm Aux Input on GP-10!

I own most IOS Synths - and use IK SampleTank for IOS a lot with FTP 
and Z3TA+ is good too.


The IOS Synth Space is very "pro" sounding these days

Read reviews and hear demos of the best here:
http://www.musicappblog.com/virtual-instrument-roundup/
[/i]

Read FTP Top Things to know
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0

Here is a pic of Fishman TriplePlay working with 2012 Ipad Mini 32GB (IOS 6.1.3) and Apple Lightning USB Camera Adapter providing the USB Host port  - triggering IK Multimedia Sampletank (works well), very fast triggering too!

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com


Here is a pic of Fishman TriplePlay working with 2011 Ipad2 64GB Wi-Fi+3G (IOS 5.1.1) and Apple 30 pin Camera Connection Kit Adapter providing the USB Host port for the FTP Receiver Dongle triggering Bismark bs-16i Synth
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
 

There were early reports from iPad3 and 30 pin Apple CCK owners of FTP requiring a Powered USB Hub to work.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5188.msg59419#msg59419

But problem was tracked down to employing a non Apple USB Camera Adapter or Camera Connection Kit.

No separate Powered USB Hub required .

As long as you use a genuine Apple USB Camera Adapter or Camera Connection Kit, the Fishman TriplePlay Receiver can be powered directly by your IPad.



The FTP Controller Volume Control Pot sends MIDI CC#7, and the "Up and Down" buttons on the FTP "D-Pad" send MIDI Patch change commands, Up and Down. 
The default FTP mode will send all Note On/Off events on MIDI Channel #1
If I hold down the "Up" button on the FTP D-Pad while powering on the FTP Controller, the FTP will send each string's MIDI Note On/Off event on Six separate MIDI channels:

MIDI Channel #1 = High E
MIDI Channel #2 = B
MIDI Channel #3 = G
MIDI Channel #4 = D
MIDI Channel #5 = A
MIDI Channel #6 = Low E

HCarlH

#990
Thanks, guys, for the replies! 


Quote from: Elantric on November 17, 2014, 10:41:05 AM
I get excellent "on the verge of tube breakup tone" from my EHX "OD Glove" pedal - I'm working on modifying one of my GP-10's to include a Normal PU Effects Loop ( pre A/D and DSP) so I can get "the tone" for use with my normal pickups with minimal  floor real estate,  - when I cant bring my Kemper!   

Are you using this on top of a clean COSM amp model? Which one? Are you also using the "mic off" trick suggested below?

Quote from: Litesnsirens on November 18, 2014, 08:11:51 AM
Another recent discovery that works for me is turning the mic sim settings off on all my patches ie; set to flat.  I make up the difference with the treble on the amp sim.

Hmmm. I'll try this.  With the default models (mic on), it always seems as if the patch has ice pick treble and when you turn down the treble it instantly drops to mud with no middle ground. Thanks for the tip!


Quote from: mbenigni on November 18, 2014, 11:05:17 AM
I found the same thing.  Using the flat mic and then a bit of post-EQ brought everything back to life.  COSM amps still aren't my favorites, but that helped a lot.

I will try this. This particular gig is worth using as little gear as possible since the bar patrons couldn't care less about music in this pool room. Why the bar still hires bands is beyond me, but I take the $$$$ and run. I still can't play when I don't like my tone.
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,

vtgearhead

Thanks for wonderfully detailed response, Steve.  I'm curious how much impact the FTP receiver has on iPad battery life.

HCarlH

Quote from: Litesnsirens on November 18, 2014, 08:11:51 AM
Another recent discovery that works for me is turning the mic sim settings off on all my patches ie; set to flat.  I make up the difference with the treble on the amp sim.  The thing is, after that, there are so many ways to skin the proverbial cat.  I tend to use the Tweed amp or Marshall '59 I on the low gain setting then driving it from there, or not driving it and keeping it clean at the amp stage and using the natural OD distortion in the MOD.

Ok, this is working.     ;D

I've finally gotten some acceptable Tweed and Marshall overdrive patches for the Tom Petty stuff. I think I may be able to use this next week. Thanks to you (and mbenigni for the added comment) for the
tip!
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,

replicand

My first impression, of course, is "where to begin?". I'm still getting used to the fact that my guitar can now layer two synth sounds. Mind Blowing!!!

The GR-300 patches appeal to me very much. The PCM sounds could potentially be inspiring, depending upon the context which they would be used (which I cannot determine until the band starts playing). This aspect is probably most exciting to me; plus the possibility of the bandmates thinking "what is that sound and where is it coming from?!" I might tell them, but I might not, haha!

On the PCM side of the house, *I* think multi-samples would've been great because many sounds have the frequency / time-dependency thing going (time-based effects on the PCM samples are much longer in the lower registers than the higher; perhaps more commonly known as the "chipmunk effect"). I think, though, that once you start adding tones and effects, this becomes less of an issue.

Because several of the presets showcase the fact that the designers understand how much more different a guitar controller is than a keyboard. In this regard, it is an incredible instrument / processor. I've read some reviews that state that access to some parameters have been "dumbed-down" for guitarists, who normally wouldn't deal with them. I understand why things were implemented this way, but as a synthesizer programmer, naturally I want access to ALLLLL parameters.

Do I love it? Of course!!! I'm a much better guitarist than keyboardist. But my exposure to keyboard synthesizers leads me to believe that, in terms of editability, a keyboard will be much more powerful.


supernicd

#994
QuoteBut my exposure to keyboard synthesizers leads me to believe that, in terms of editability, a keyboard will be much more powerful.

You are correct, and I've fought this mental battle with myself 1000x over.  Even compared to my Juno-G, which is kind of a budget version of a Fantom X, and even compared to some iOS app synths that I bought for $20, the 55's PCM parameters are limited.

My tip here would be to not waste any time anguishing over it and focus on what it can do with the tools available.  Because 1) Roland will most likely never add them via firmware update and 2) you really can do a lot with what is there.  Even with all of the great patches on this site, I believe the 55's sound palette is largely an unexplored frontier. 

I also hold the belief that constraints can foster creativity.

Maybe that's an optimistic viewpoint but, for now, that's my story and I'm sticking with it. :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mbenigni

QuoteI'm a much better guitarist than keyboardist. But my exposure to keyboard synthesizers leads me to believe that, in terms of editability, a keyboard will be much more powerful.

But... don't assume that the editing limitations have anything to do with your decision to play a guitar synth vs. a keyboard.  That is, don't confuse the tone generator with the controller.  You can use guitar-to-MIDI conversion to drive any sound module, keyboard, or software you like, with whatever editing they allow, if you find that it better suits your abilities as a guitarist.

Fusion

I just got my GR55 last week and beforehand I had been reading everything I could find and studying up to hit the ground running.
I am a guitarist of many eons and have pretty much got my traditional rig optimized. I was not so interested in the COSM modeling stuff just more so patches to combine with my std guitar rig to make for some powerful tones. I had a GR33 previously and did some rather cool things with it. This new one has much superior tracking and features to be sure. Rather amazed at the depth it has and the PC editor is a jewel. Although it does have some bugs I am learning to work around. You have to be sure you are locked into the preset and sometimes making switch assigns gets weird, have to toggle PCMs on and off and the switch to get it right and saved properly. Still an amazing asset to have.

I am not using guitar amps these days. I was inspired by John McLaughlin in that he stopped using guitar amps years ago. I expanded on a non traditional rig and mainly use power amps to run my guitar rig and the synth rig. Each is individual from one another. I have this little trick I use to make the power amps using using Presonus preamps w real tube to convert the signal to XLR into the power amps. Works great, adds a sense of tube to the sound without having to use guitar amps. Not for dist or gain just a cleaner tube preamping for enhancement and warmth.

I have been wondering if I need to just run a std guitar cable off my guitar into my board to maintain my normal sound which is too good to mess with. I am thinking the guitar out on the 55 might be buffered, or not a straight through out which will alter my sound. Since I do not intend to pipe the 55 into my normal chain I am not concerned otherwise. Anyone know if the guitar out is a pure output or is it buffering down the signal??

I have been up all night several times now programming some patched and figuring out all the tips and insights I have been collecting.
So far I have a mind boggling Kasmir, several modeled acoustic 12s and switchable 12s with strings under and choir background using various control switches for options. Have about 10 patches now and it is a slow process to build ones I can use with my entire rig. A few are just using the GR55 system but not really using any distorted guitar stuff, my main rig has that full up and better. I so dig the beautiful 12 string capability this puppy has and the alternate tunings which are amazing (discovered you cannot 12 string an alternate tuning). Still DADGAD D-modal on a toggle. amazing.

I used to have my older 33 set up to play massive choir sounds under my uber high gain stuff. Think Diary of a Madman on one guitar, pretty cool. Was really heavy I used to scare the bejesus out of some of the hangers-on in the rehearsal room testing out  some of the more spooky tones combined with my main rig.
Things have changed a lot and now I am just working on my studio and building a massive guitar rig yet trying to keep it usable. It's pretty cool to create sound effects for backgrounds with the normal guitar. I am just not giving up my std rig as I have made that mistake too many times in the past. I want each rig to have its own thing.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

HCarlH

Quote from: Fusion on December 07, 2014, 07:43:52 PM
I have been wondering if I need to just run a std guitar cable off my guitar into my board to maintain my normal sound which is too good to mess with. I am thinking the guitar out on the 55 might be buffered, or not a straight through out which will alter my sound. Since I do not intend to pipe the 55 into my normal chain I am not concerned otherwise. Anyone know if the guitar out is a pure output or is it buffering down the signal??

The Guitar Out jack is a steaming piece of..........a mess.   ;D 

It's very noisy when run into a high gain setting on your amp.  There are one or two threads about this and a mod you can do to separate your guitar's signal before it hit's the internal buffer.

What I have been doing, however, is to use two cords (1 for the GK, 1 for the guitar) for each signal and using Velcro tape to keep the cords together as they leave the guitar. I'm not exactly sure how you would switch between GR-55 and amp as I use a Kemper modeler. I take the outs of the Kemper and GR-55 into an A/B box and switch that way.
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,

Fusion

#998
Thanks for the info. Mine is too new for me to really tell if my guitar signal is being whacked. Not that buffers are a bad thing but to many in a chain builds a problem. Noise I do not need and interference with my pedalboard is not cool.
I have thought about just running my straight guitar jack to my board and just keep the two independent from each other. Seems I have heard of a couple chaps doing that seems to be the true signal but I would like some specs on the guitar out and what sort of buffer is going on.
I am looking for those threads on the guitar out. Man what a marvelous website and "gumtown" is it, that created the floorboard editor software,  he should be Knighted by the Queen. That software is a quantum leap in comprehending this unit and working out the complex assigning features.

"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

HCarlH

#999
Quote from: Fusion on December 08, 2014, 04:06:12 AM
I am looking for those threads on the guitar out.

Be sure to spend an evening reading the threads in the Top Things to Know area....the output issue is the first sticky I believe.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=61.0

Elantric and a few others are amazing sources of information and the reason anybody is using the GR-55 and other V gear successfully. 
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,