Amplification recommendations for DSP Guitar Modeling systems

Started by Elantric, February 10, 2008, 07:15:37 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

big_jan

I use a AER Domino 4 inputs. It is designed for acoustic amplication where it shines. But the recent entry of the GR55 made me test it and proved to have great sound projection. It doesn't shine for the low registers but the mid tones of electric guitar modelling makes me happy for the purchase. I am not sure how much it costs in the USA but where I am in Asia in we had a good sale for it for U$1,800. By the way I used the Yamaha Stagepas 300 as my main amplification since 2005. It still does a good job but nothing to the tones I get from the AER. I use a multicart trolley to haul it around.   

atrus

Quote from:  germanicus on June 07, 2011, 09:58:33 PM
Others please correct me if im mistaken, but I believe that while the Jazz Chorus is a 'clean' amp, its not full range. If that is in fact true, synths will not perform as well compared to the Traynor K4. The k4 has dedicated drivers for high frequencies.

Yes Germanicus in fact you are right... the JC isn't the perfect combination if the intention is a full range system...
This leave me with the K4... a little bit expensive but it really seems a good quality amp, my only doubt is just the 300W... excessive for home playing but just need to keep the volume down and if needed for play it in a gig the extra power is there.

I also thought about the AC90, but the price for it here is about 700€... but from thomman i can get the k4 for 900€... i think it can be a better option for the difference...

Jim Williams

If you recorded yourself would you play the CD through a guitar amp or the PA????
Weather you use a Boss GT-X, VG-XX or a GR-XX It is designed to deliver your guitar effects in a CD quality sound so if you plan to get good guitar tone from Roland use a full range amp If you don't you have wasted your money. If you want to use a tube amp get a rack processor that can go in your effects loop you will be happier.

I don't want to sound harsh but amp modeling technology was made for those of us who don't want carry around heavy stacks anymore. So sell that tube stack and get a full range amp or just jack into the PA. after all you want to be the real front man! So get your solos out there and sound like you mean business with the tone of a professional and for the buck Roland gear is the best way to get there.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

montyrivers

Quote from:  atrus on June 14, 2011, 02:52:39 PM
Yes Germanicus in fact you are right... the JC isn't the perfect combination if the intention is a full range system...
This leave me with the K4... a little bit expensive but it really seems a good quality amp, my only doubt is just the 300W... excessive for home playing but just need to keep the volume down and if needed for play it in a gig the extra power is there.

I also thought about the AC90, but the price for it here is about 700€... but from thomman i can get the k4 for 900€... i think it can be a better option for the difference...

I think it's important also to consider that when picking an amplifier for the VG-99 that even the most high quality preamps on "full range" speakers and amplifiers can add unwanted color to the synth/guitar sounds.  I'd say that the best candidate for the VG-99 is a poweramp and speaker or combo amp that lets you bypass any external preamp/EQ entirely.  That's also why the JC-120 is hailed for its ability to run effects pedals and guitar modellers through its send/return, not really because of its clean channel, but because it provides sound reinforcement. 

Even the best PA's and and guitar amps can turn out badly with the VG.  I know that when I ran the VG through the JC120's clean channel that it sounded just as mediocre as when I ran it through a little 30w Fender Frontman.  It wasn't until I ran it through the back of the amp and bypassed the preamp that I saw a dramatic improvement in range and quality.  That was just my experience though.  I'm sure there are those who look at this differently.





loopman

Hi gtrjimmy413, i see that you own two TECH21 Power Engine 60, i'm planning to purchase 2 of them too. Only it's a pity that they haven't the tweeter and in this way i'll haven't the full range spectrum for my VG-99 and GR 33 units, I guess.
I read about your mods made to your power enigines 60 by adding the tweeter and the crossover,are they hard to make?
Let me know,
thank you

Jim Williams

I had my mods done by my local music store they have a very good tech. They do make them with the horn check out the website.
Skype: (upon Request)

Everything from modeling to the real deal, my house looks like a music store.

ntblade

Quote from:  gtrjimmy413 on June 07, 2011, 02:53:22 AM
I use a pair of Tech 21 powerengine 60's moded with a pizzo horns and a crossover. this is a great full range sound and a real stereo sound. You can place them next to eachother or seperate them and I put pole mounts on the bottom of them. the nice thing about them is they have XLR ins and outs as well as the 1/4 inch in. You can daisy chain them and run them to your mixer and save yourself the trouble of useing mics and solves the lack of XLR outs on the GR-55.

Sorry to dig up an old post but what horns and crossovers did you use?  Did you keep the original Celestions?  How do they sound with acoustic guitar tones?

Thanks,
NTB

mikelara


atonal

Hi everyone and Happy New Year a congrats out to gumtown on the new addition,I;m a little stumped..I have been playing my gr300 and gr55 thru a jc-120 and various tube amps for guitar out,everyone one seems to be big fans of the traynor k4 but most post's are old.Elantric mentioned the alto powered wedge monitor,I've heard people talking about the @Qsc k12's and of course the traynor..currently looking for some advice from all you tone guru's as too some of plus's and minus's of some of these units and any others that come to mind.not a tech 21 guy.In reference to Qsc k12's the k12 or wood cab kw122.need something moderately loud and something I'm gonna feel good enough about leaving my vintage tube amps home..All the options I've seen are pricey with exception of the alto wedge.But tone comes fist if i can save some by making an educated purchase great but not paramount..Thank you all for your help,I've learnt so much here and I'am just scratching the surface

Elantric

Amplification will be a personal choice.


We recently had a thread that highlighted the success of using the recent era Roland Cube amp's with "MP3 Player Input" as a successful amp for the VG-99 / GR-55.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5077.msg34540#msg34540

This is due to to these modern Cube Amps being " DSP modelling Amps" and they do have a wider  / flatter response speaker than a typical guitar amp.


In general -

If you seek better Guitar Tones - you will probably be happier using one of these Cube Amps.

or

If you seek better Synth / Acoustic tones- you will probably be happier using amplification that has a separate tweeter (Self Powered PA Cab/Keyboard Amp.)


atonal

Really glad i caught your you have a traynor k4,do you still loveit?also you mentioned the alto wedge how doe's it compare?thanks elantric!!

Elantric

alto wedge is underpowered in my opinion.

I have many amps - and try to use the best one for the occasion.  So its best not to use my posts as the last word reference for amplification.

"Germanicus" uses the  Traynor K4 a lot and like it.

But others have tried it and seem to have problems taming the harsh High end frequencies - but thats typically due to an over stressed tweeter Horn Diaphram

Here is how to replace these:

Foster / Fostex HF Driver repair (Traynor K4)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9493.0




atonal

Thanks ,you didn't mention the traynor is the love affair over or is it still your go to!!

Elantric

I currently play 80% of my live gigs in a surf band and use the Roland Cube 80XL - (so I do not have to lug a Twin or Super Showman)
and do not use the VG-99 / GR-55 at live gigs for various reasons. Mostly because I need my real '63 Fender Tube Reverb as the first thing in my signal chain to duplicate authentic 1962 surf tones. and 90% of tone is in your fingers ;)


atonal

Agreed !!going to alto tomorrow will abc everything and make a decision thanks for your help!!

Elantric

For GR-55 / VG-99  here's a brief review of what I feel works and what does not.

Traynor K4 - works well, but must use "Line / Headphones" and cut the high frequencies.

1999 era JPL EON P15  - works very well.

2006 Behringer B212D  - not too bad

Tapco / Mackie TH15A Thump  - gets very good reviews

Roland AC-60 - underpowered and "speakers crackle" when cranked up.


atonal

Thanks I'm starting to see the light Alto an hour drive away from me but i have a good amount of friends that work there,Ill be putting them through the paces tommorow!!

prsrick

Yes, it seems to work better.
i also try plug in to the AUX In of my Genz Benz Shutle 310 Bass Amp, and it is even better and much lighter for me to carry to the gig!
thanks for the tips!

Elantric

Many modern Bass Amps make excellent choice to amplify the VG-99 / GR-55 - due to the flat response 2 way woofers and tweeters employed on most Modern Bass amps today.

gumtown

Quote from:  Elantric on January 03, 2012, 03:23:41 PM
Many modern Bass Amps make excellent choice to amplify the VG-99 / GR-55 - due to the flat response 2 way woofers and tweeters employed on most Modern Bass amps today.
I use a Marshall MB450 Bass head with a 4x10 and 1x15 both with the tweeters enabled, the GR-55 output plugs into the Amp's FX Return.

My GR-55 is also modified with two extra jack sockets (waranty now invalid) inline with the Normal PU wiring, so i can use my rig in 4CM (four cable method), which allows the amp's external preamp to be used just before the Normal PU input of the GR-55, and not have the GR-55 synth tones colored by the external preamp.
A nice flat response for the internal PCM synths and Modeled tones, and a scooped preamp tone applied to the normal pickup tone which can be adjusted on the fly.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

kenact

Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

WOODIESGBAND

I have a trace elliot ac40cr with a 10" speaker replacing the 5" speakers. I can use one channel for guitar and the other for gr-55. I get a good range of tones for both so hope this works[ put through pa mix for live}

atonal

WELL SPENT MOST OF THE DAY PLAYING THROUGH THE TRAYNOR K4,MACKIE THUMP 15 AND A QSC KW122.THE QSC WAS HANDS DOWN WINNER TO MY EARS A/B AGAINST THE MACKIE AND THE QSC IS NOT ONLY MORE ORGANIC SOUNDING BUT HAD WAY,WAY MUCHO POWER.THE MACKIE SOUNDED OK AND PROBABLY DO THE TRICK BUT I HAD TO TRY THE QSC NOW SPOILED.AS FAR AS THE TRAYNOR THEY OFFERED ME A GREAT DEAL ON THEIR FLOOR MODEL BUT HAD ISSUES PROBABLY THE ONES MENTIONED IN THE POST HERE ABOUT THOSE SHIPPED EARLY ON,STARTED LOOKING IT OVER AS SALES REP WAS WRITING IT UP,WITH THE KNOWLEDGE IT WAS GOING STRAIGHT BACK TO WARRANTY BUT COULD ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE TOP OF THE CHASSIS WAS DENTED DOWN AND FACE PANEL BULGED BY CHANNEL 1$2,CHANNEL 3 SOUNDED REAL GOOD BUT PC BOARD DAMAGE SCARED ME AWAY,ONLY THING LEFT TO TRY YAMAHA STAGEPASS AND A CUBE 80XL UNLESS ANYBODY'S GOT ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS.THANKS

DF400

I presently use the Traynor K4, and it does a decent job with sound quality. Although overall, the sound can get harsh with high frequencies. It does offer stereo amplification though (which I find of little value when playing live). The distortion/drive is completely worthless.

Where is excels is in the ability to run multiple stereo (unbalanced) inputs, then mix those inputs to a common balanced output - so eliminates the need for a DI box. Another added feature is that it can be simultaneously used as a monitor with a forth input that does not feed into the balanced outputs. I also use it for small backyard acoustic gigs, since it has a mic input.

atonal

my initial thoughts on the k4 were to be able to use it as a pa and amplifying my acoustic for my solo shows and really fit the bill for all the modeled tones,i definately tried a bad one today but nobody's got one to try out other than the damaged one but for the the modeled tone the qsc kw122 sounded like a perfect fit but pricey,I'm definately on hold now till I can research more options.Thanks for your input on the k4 would like to play thru a proper one.