VG-99 Guitar -> MIDI "Patch Remain"

Started by computone, January 08, 2010, 01:53:47 AM

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computone

Hi,

Is anyone out there familiar with Roland's "Patch Remain"???

It's when you change sounds, any sounds from the last sound keep playing out instead of an instant cut off, plus a number of parameters such as volume (CC#7) remain.   So if you're on a piano patch, and with a foot controller have modified the volume to about 80%, when you change patches on the VG-99 which may in turn change patches on an external MIDI sound module, such as the Roland Fantom-XR, the volume (CC#7) of the new sound will remain at 80%.

I'm using the Fantom-XR with the VG-99, and Patch Remain is enabled on the Fantom-XR, but when I change patches, the volume of the new MIDI sound is resetting to 127, instead of retaining it's level on the last patch.

It's something inherent in the VG-99, as Patch Remain is definitely enabled on the Fantom-XR, and I've verified the foot expression pedal is modifying CC#7, as that is one of the parameters that's "remained" with patch changing.  It's something else, which I haven't to date located.  I'm nearly up to pulling my hair out!!!

If anyone has been down this road and could share their experience, it'd be life saving!!!

Thanks!!

aliensporebomb

Are you using the VG-99 via USB as a soundcard for your PC by any chance?

It's the patch changing that is causing the sound to cut out.

If you modified a single patch on the VG-99 to change the sound without changing the patch you'd be okay.

It's done intentionally - my understanding is if you went from a patch with a clean quiet sound to a patch with a huge giant
roaring distortion it could cause damage to a speaker system.

How to get around it?

Stay on one patch.  Example:  Patch 31 - have it so the FC300 is adding or removing bits to a sound you can use one patch
to get around this.

Set it so CTL A or CTL B or the pedals add or remove elements to this sound...

Example:

31 hypothetically being a meat and potatoes compression/chorus/delay sound.
Then CTL A adds a crunch rhythm sound
Then CTL B adds a punchy lead sound
Pressing both changes to a 12-string shimmering sound

Have the pedals control other elements.

My understanding is: if you're using the VG99 as a soundcard it isn't going to work the way you want if you
change patches.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Brent Flash

#2
Quote from: computone on January 08, 2010, 01:53:47 AM
Hi,

Is anyone out there familiar with Roland's "Patch Remain"???
It's when you change sounds, any sounds from the last sound keep playing out instead of an instant cut off, plus a number of parameters such as volume (CC#7) remain.   So if you're on a piano patch, and with a foot controller have modified the volume to about 80%, when you change patches on the VG-99 which may in turn change patches on an external MIDI sound module, such as the Roland Fantom-XR, the volume (CC#7) of the new sound will remain at 80%.

I'm using the Fantom-XR with the VG-99, and Patch Remain is enabled on the Fantom-XR, but when I change patches, the volume of the new MIDI sound is resetting to 127, instead of retaining it's level on the last patch.

It's something inherent in the VG-99, as Patch Remain is definitely enabled on the Fantom-XR, and I've verified the foot expression pedal is modifying CC#7, as that is one of the parameters that's "remained" with patch changing.  It's something else, which I haven't to date located.  I'm nearly up to pulling my hair out!!!

If anyone has been down this road and could share their experience, it'd be life saving!!!
Thanks!!
Yes, this road has been traveled and no good destination has been reached. At least in most users minds. One of the VG's most frustrating things is the way it handles MIDI Control #7 on patch change. Without going over everything again in this thread, see this one please: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,915.0.html

The closest thing to the feature that you are looking for is the ASSIGN HOLD parameter in the SYSTEM CONTROL ASSIGN settings. This will allow you to switch from patch to patch on the VG-99 and maintain control settings from one patch to the other in the VG-99. Sadly this does not happen for MIDI Control #7.  ???

Brent Flash

I'm sorry, I forgot to welcome you to the group computone, welcome!  :)

I try to do that when someone does their first post.

I have a little good news. I did figure out a way (a while back) to keep the volume of your MIDI sounds from resetting but it is only in the VG's MIDI POLY MODE not MIDI MONO MODE.

You can read about it starting at REPLY #21 on the thread I put a link to above. Hope this helps!  :)

paults

#4
Try using assigning a MIDI CC# to the VG pedal, and then assigning that control number to one of your synth's Global Controllers. Assign that controller to either "Patch Level", "Performance Level", or the output of an effect  - something like "Level#" of the Stereo EQ, and enable the EQ in your Patch/Performance.

The MIDI Implementation section of my XV-5050 manual mentions "Receive Volume"  in the "Performance MIDI" section.  Your Fantom may call that parameter the same thing. 

   


computone

Guys,

Thankyou sooooo much for your such quick help!!!

Unfortunately, the first response was a bit irrelevant (thankyou so much for your time and input however), as I wasn't using it with a PC at all.  The only time the PC/USB comes into it, is to modify the patches on the VG-99 easily.

Other than that, the VG's only used in combination with the Roland Fantom-XR (for Guitar to MIDI), and the Roland FC-300 Foot Controller (live performance).

I can't wait to sit down and go through everything you've said, which I'll get to over the first half of next week, and I'll come back and let you's know how I go.

What a pain, with the VG just not handling CC#7 properly.  Before I got the VG, I was using the GI-20 + XV-2020, and got it working fine there, so it seems the Guitar -> MIDI Converter in the VG is not exactly the same as the GI-20. I was worried for a bit there I'd have to go back to it, or use it in conjunction, but by the sounds of things, thank to you guys' input, I should be able to work something out without needing to go back down that track, next week.

I did originally have another problem where when playing live, needing to switch MIDI sounds by changing VG patches, but there was a 3-4 second delay, which is useless when performing live and need the change instantly.  Another thing where the GI-20 never caused dramas.

It turns out it did that because I had the USB connection to a PC (as I was newly setting up my patches for the first time).  As soon as the USB link was gone, the patch changing's instant, so that one sorted itself out.

Once again, thankyou guys, and thanks for the welcome to this site.  I'm rapt to see this sort of thing's here to turn to, not only for help, but sharing sounds.  I hope one day to be able to contribute, whether it be support or sharing sounds.

Will let you's know how I go some time next week.

Till then, thanks a mil' & keep rockin'!!!

--
Andrew

paults

You're welcome! I'm pretty new to this particular forum , myself.  I'm in the process of making my live setup as efficient as possible, so your question came at just the right time.

computone

Well guys,

As promised, got around to it mid this week, and presto, both approaches work, but I ended up doing the first one, disabling the "CONTROL CHANGE ASSIGN" parameters under the "GUITAR TO MIDI" page, and instead mapping the "FC-300 EXP1" to CC#7 under the "MIDI" page under the "SYSTEM / MIDI / USB / V-LINK" page.

Of course, it's not an "ideal" solution, because it won't work 100% when we use the Guitar To Midi in MONO mode (perhaps the other way will work), but at this point in time, I only use it in POLY mode, so it does the job.

I've read in places the issue has been reported to Roland, including at one of the NAMM events.  There's quite an interesting page here with quite a number of issues people have.  Whether or not Roland ever end up doing anything about any of them, who knows???

http://vg-8.com/wiki/VG-99_Enhancements

Thanks so much for your help once again.