VADE's - Synth and midi build questions.

Started by Vade, December 19, 2013, 07:10:28 AM

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Vade

What a great forum and knowledge base you guys have built here; kudos. I'm Vade and this is my first post. I'm hoping to get some ideas on a build almost from the ground up for an unskilled player who's finally decided to get serious about music generally and electric guitar specifically. I'm starting with a gaming PC I built last year still using onboard audio, an iPad 3, a Scarlet 2i2 DAC, Audacity, Reaper, Ableton Lite 8, Rocksmith 2014, Boss Chorus CE-2, Boss Digital Delay DD-2, a couple of Shure 545SD mics, 6 string Yairi Alvarez DY73 & 12 string Alvarez AJ60SC12, a flute, and some harmonicas.

I thought it was high time to grab my first electric so I went out and picked up a used Fender Sig Strat SRV for $1200 (I could've gone a few hundred higher) and I've till January 6th to return it. I was going to grab the Fender 65 Reissue Deluxe Reverb on plastic and follow up next year with a decent PA to double as studio monitors; even though most of my time will be spent at my home studio I want to be able to go and sit in with friends if nothing else. Then I ran across you guys and it just makes no sense to me not to include some of the great synth and midi options along with the ability to plug into a good tube amp if I want. Problem is every time a think I've got a build in mind I find that there are issues that arise that I was unaware of 15 minutes before. So I'm looking for recommendations from folks who know what they're doing. Do I exchange my SRV Strat for a good Godin, or is there a better choice; GC-1 perhaps? Do I go with a GR-55, a VG 99, or wait to see what's announced at NAMM 2014? Perhaps the TriplePlay coupled to my PC and iPad's the best bet. So thanks' for putting up with this wall of text while I outlined my gear, budget, and goals; any feedback will be greatly appreciated; think Gollum gamboling around Master...

Edit: changed very poor player to unskilled player for clarity.



P.S. (11-21-14) Place holder for threads I find useful to bookmark.

To Do:

GP-10 BOSS TONE STUDIO bugs/errors/issues

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17889.msg129316;topicseen#msg129316

1. 13 Pin to FTP adapter

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0

1.a. Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0

1.b. Roland Internal GK-Kit-GT3 @ Andertons UK - (75 British pounds) or $135.03

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11241.0

1.c. Gumbo connectors

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.0

1.d. Install Internal GK-3

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133.0

2. Super Vee Tremolo

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5152.0

3. Sensomusic Usine

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6296.msg87723#msg87723

4. MIDI controller Setup / Debug

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2977.0

5. Set List Maker - Lyrics and MIDI Patch change control setup

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9090.0

6. Measuring Guitar FX Audio / MIDI / iPad Latency - How?

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8929.0

7. Add MIDI I/O to Boss GP-10, Simple Raspberry Pi Setup

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12067.0

8. Computers and audio latency.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12835.msg93210#msg93210

9. GP-10 USB Audio/MIDI out/configuration.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?
topic=10805.0


10. Are Windows Tablets Ready for Prime Time?

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10380.0

11. Use the right USB cable.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11086.msg86392#msg86392

12. StaffPad

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14312.msg102959#msg102959

13. Tripleplay - MidiMapping the Guitar-Mix-Synth lever in Ableton live

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14289.msg102979;topicseen#msg102979

14. FTP Modes & Midi Implementation

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13653.0

15. How to embed YouTube videos in the forum?

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4675.msg31529#msg31529

4 )  Edit the "https:" link and remove the "s"  = so its "http:"

16. Reply #23 "Read Christoplast"s post for getting Roland/Boss USB Drivers for Windows 8.1 to work with Windows 10"

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9763.msg113297#msg113297

17. Evenharmonic GTAK - switch instruments by playing notes on your fretboard

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3339.msg127074;topicseen#msg127074

18. David Gilmour Rig Rundown

http://www.kitrae.net/music/David_Gilmour_Tone_Building.html

19. Search forum for "Breath Controller"

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=search2

Pearls

1. Elantric; "Most patches on VG/GR gear map GK Vol pot to "Patch Volume",which does not clean up like a normal guitar volume pot. Remap GK Vol to Modeling Guitar Volume or Amp preamp Volume returns typical guitar volume functionality. However this creates problems if you employ Roland US-20 13pin A/B/Y switch box. The US-20 will only work when  GK Vol pot is mapped to "Patch Volume""

2. Elantric; "The "LINE/PHONES" Setting always applies a bandpass filter to the output signal of the VG/GR/GP device - to make the signal  more pleasant when feeding flat response amplifiers and Headphones. You want to avoid using "LINE/PHONES" setting when feeding a normal guitar amp"

3.  MusicOverGear; Okay apparently on GP-10 when you change "String Ch" (System Settings) the GP-10 also looks for incoming MIDI CC# Data on that channel as well. For simplicity I just set it back to 1 and it started working again.  Anyway on my GP-10, incoming MIDI CC data stopped working in the Assigns when "String Ch" mismatched the MIDI channel on my foot controller (Roland GFC-50, very non-flexible). Program Change never stopped working - 

4. KMI RE; SoftStep 2
"Windows Class-Compliant Device Limitation
Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 do not allow a class-compliant MIDI
device to be connected to more than a single application at a time. As a class-compliant MIDI
controller, this applies to the SoftStep.
The result of this is that if you have two or more audio/MIDI applications open at the same time
(the Advanced Editor and Ableton Live, for example), only one of them will be able to connect to
the SoftStep. Because of this it is highly recommended to never edit the SoftStep with other audio
applications open — it could lead to connectivity issues, and a very confusing, frustrating
experience."

5. Re: Patch Cloning by Aliensporebomb

-Download the .MID file. (VG-99 Patch from our Forum)

-Download the Roland VG-99 Editor. (The VG-99 Editor will run and load VG-99 patches - even if you do not have an actual  VG-99 connected.)

-Once the editor is launched select FILE then IMPORT SMF.

-It will pop up a box that allows you to point to files on your hard drive.  Search for the SANTANA.MID and select open.

-Once opened you can see in the VG-99 Editor the various settings for the preset/patch. - write them down.

Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#1
Welcome Vade,

Its exciting times, with too many options.

If you returned the SRV Strat We do have a GC1 Group Buy
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5279.0
That would give an extra $475 to play with, - if you wanted to go the 13 pin route - and then connect to a gently used VG-99 ( $650) or gently used GR-55 ( $450)
http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedGear/index.cfm


Since you already have a Scarlet 2i2 and iPad 3 - then I would get Bias  + Jamup Pro + a pair of Alto TS11A Powered cabs
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9903.0
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8378.0
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9882.0

the best Guitar to MIDI at this hour is Fishman Tripleply
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.0
( we have group buy too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7940.0
Check your Inbox for details

and read the links in my signature to find what you are looking for
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6125.0

Vade

Thanks for the quick response and suggestions Elantric. The problem is I don't know which way I want to go because I'm unsure of the issues surrounding various builds. For instance, if I go with a CG-1 and a GR-55 will I have lag issues? If I went with a Godin instead would it sound as good with its Piezo pickup? Would the triple play and iPad make the GR-55 etc redundant? I want to get a mobile rig I can grow into and I guess I'm asking what you guys would buy if you were designing a decent system from the ground up.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

mbenigni

#3
When I read "very poor player" I thought you meant you had no money.  The rest of your post really threw me for a loop.  :)

My 2 cents:  If you genuinely think your playing needs work and you want to get serious, don't get too worked up about gear.  Learn some more songs, learn some more theory, play the guitar.  A strat is a fine place to start (as is that 6-string acoustic for that matter) and the SRV is a nicer strat than many of us can afford.  (With the factory set up it's a little specialized, e.g. heavy strings, etc. but if you bought it I assume you like playing it.)

I wouldn't rush headlong into guitar synth unless a specific need arises.  Tangling with technology just because it exists, or because you want to plan for any possible contingency (the lure of "total freedom!  total flexibility!") is basically a recipe for chasing your own tail at great expense.  ("...issues that arise that I was unaware of 15 minutes before...")

Cautionary tales aside, if you just have a personal interest in guitar synthesis and want to explore for the fun of it...  Try to get to a store where you can test drive some products.  If that fails (stores with working demos and knowledgeable staff are uncommon to say the least) then be sure to buy with a good return policy.  The reality is that all guitar synths lag and glitch to some extent.  You'd also do well to experiment with that iPad and get a feel for what's possible without investing too heavily.  Jam Origin MIDI Guitar and a decent synth/sampler app (e.g. Sampletank) will get you very good results once you learn to work within the limitations (a requisite for any MIDI guitar solution, with the possible exception of Triple Play).  Both have free/trial versions, and they're only about $20 each if you decide to pull the trigger.  (Incidentally, if you did decide on Triple Play down the road, you'd still need a synth/sampler to provide your sounds, and iPad + SampleTank happens to be a fine solution for this setup.)

To answer your question about redundancy - a hardware-based hex pickup solution will bring certain features that can't be achieved without, e.g. alternate tunings, guitar/instrument modeling, independent instruments per string.  But unless you have a specific need for these, you'd be surprised how much you can get done with the stuff you already own - for instance that iPad.

Elantric

#4
I agreed with what mbenigni said above.

I see you are in Ohio


No doubt there is a Guitar Center in Cleveland (home of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame) 


But I would plan a trip in June to Fort Wayne Indiana to the Sweetwater Gearfest which happens every summer, as they have all the gear we talk about.

Here are details for last year's Sweetwater Gearfest ( rather like a mini NAMM show open to the public) 

http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/gearfest2013/

they make more announcements on their facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/sweetwater

Vade

@When I read "very poor player" I thought you meant you had no money
&
@ "I agree with what mbenigni said above


Morning mbenigni and thanks for your input. I edited my OP to make the meaning more clear; sorry about that. I agree that I could just use my acoustic guitars to skill up and I am beginning to study more seriously. Part of that process involves using Rocksmith 2014 as a teaching tool and practice motivator; that program really would seem to benefit from using an electric guitar. That's why I ran out and bought the SRV Strat upon the advice of GC staff with my only request being that I purchase a guitar I'd still be happy with after five years. Having read hundreds of reviews after my purchase I dare say I would be happy with it, and its' resale value, unless I wanted to use it for synth; but I do want the option to add synth even if I don't get to it right away.  Wouldn't it be simpler to get the right guitar in the first place rather than adding aftermarket mods? My past experience with building PC's informs me that starting a build project without clear goals and a long term plan means you end up replacing expensive parts and/or living with unnecessary limitations. I've been all over this forum during the last week and I've learned a lot but there's no way I can mimic the knowledge base you guys have developed over time. I know there will be tradeoffs in any build but I'm still interested in knowing what skilled and knowledgeable players would choose for an overall build. With that i mind I will then go out and take a listen to the various components and see if it works for me.

Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#6
Its true if you touch any screw on the SRV Strat or mod it in any way, (like installing a FTP or GK-3  it will typically loose $ value.

Sounds like you want to explore hi tech guitar

I would suggest try a You Rock Gen II Guitar ($209) as the fast track to software based guitar skills and MIDI controller that due to being a touchboard is faster than Fishman Tripleplay, but offers zero string bending response (they do include a digital Whammy Bar that sends MIDI Pitch bend messages)
   
http://www.amazon.com/You-Rock-Guitar-YRG-1000-Gen2/dp/B00903HPQ0/ref=pd_cp_MI_0


(more details)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6204.0


Return the SRV Strat and wait for deals on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=s9_hps_bw_clnk?node=11091801,!12923151,1294700011,11971241&field-enc-merchantbin=ATVPDKIKX0DER&field-pct-off=2229048011&page=1&bbn=1294700011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1BVV9NJYGTZ4DYXAZW7T&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1339750422&pf_rd_i=11091801


Last year I got a Godin xTSA for $520, and after the first one arrived I ordered a spare while the "deal" was still active.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9564.0

But myself I view most all gear we talk about as simply tools and means to achieve a wider sonic tone palette.

But its true  -  if you want to make progress with your guitar skills - you must own an instrument that inspires you to spend  a lot of time playing it. I would NOT classify the YRG in that category (its secret skills are only appreciated by a select few)

If it were me and you simply cant wait, I would still return the SRV Strat and order a GC-1 in the neck type you like (Maple or Rosewood)  - you will have a built in GK-3 internal and 13 pin output. Even in 2013 most agree the GK-3 has better "tone" with the Roland COSM Guitar Modeling compared to Piezo pickups on the Godin.

But hey  - Ive reached a point in my life where I can actually own and use most all types ( notice I  dont list all the gear i own - as it easily scares most non-bachelors, and if I was married  - it would surely be "exhibit A" in the divorce trial ;)



But since this is your first Electric Guitar if you need to watch your budget , here are some sleeper affordable guitars i find inspiring that will hold their value should you eventually discover something new down the road and need to sell to help fund what you really want and can use - AFTER you acquire more experience with electric guitars, you will have a better understanding of what floats your boat.   

http://www.amazon.com/Squier-Fender-Jazzmaster-Rosewood-Fretboard/dp/B005N2BW7K/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1387475344&sr=8-6&keywords=squire+jazzmaster



http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-EPI-DOTG-LIST?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&gclid=CMfr96XtvLsCFciFfgod0n0ABA




and read out "deal alert thread" for history of typical deals that pop up time to time
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3207.0

mbenigni

#7
Quote from: Vade on December 19, 2013, 09:09:15 AM
I edited my OP to make the meaning more clear; sorry about that.

Oh no need to apologize!  Just having a chuckle over the ambiguity is all.

QuoteThat's why I ran out and bought the SRV Strat upon the advice of GC staff with my only request being that I purchase a guitar I'd still be happy with after five years. Having read hundreds of reviews after my purchase I dare say I would be happy with it, and its' resale value, unless I wanted to use it for synth...

Selecting a guitar is a very personal thing.  An SRV wouldn't be my own preference, but you did well in terms of selecting a guitar with a good resale value, and buying it used.  Even if you keep it for a few years, you should be able to get most or all of your money back if/when you do sell it.  But take Elantric's point to heart:  with any stock instrument and especially with an artist signature guitar, any modification - even a costly upgrade - will devalue the guitar considerably.  I would not use the SRV as a test bed for MIDI pickups etc. unless your mods are 100% reversible and you're sure they won't damage the finish.

Quote...but I do want the option to add synth even if I don't get to it right away.

Here's the thing with tech purchases of any kind (as I'm sure you know from your PC experience):  although the marketing and buzz always make you feel like NOW is the time to make your move, you'll always do better by waiting until you actually need the stuff.  Whatever we're raving about right now - I can guarantee it will be replaced by something better, faster, and possibly cheaper by this time next year month.  Buy only what you need "right away" and get back to work/play.  (I really should take my own advice...)

QuoteWouldn't it be simpler to get the right guitar in the first place rather than adding aftermarket mods?

Short answer to that is "yes", but there are a couple of different strategies here.  Before we wade into details, you have to decide whether you really want/need MIDI guitar. Seriously, don't just assume that you do.  It's a very different process/experience from simply playing guitar.

So...

1. You can buy a guitar with a Roland-compatible pickup (GK or piezo.)  The group buy on the GC-1 is a good value for this approach IMO.  (There are great alternatives e.g. from Godin, but if you head into piezo territory, Roland's COSM tones will be different, arguably not as good.)  In addition, you will need to buy a Roland-compatible guitar synth, like the GR55.  Pretty significant expense.

2. You can buy an external GK3 pickup and Roland Synth (e.g. GR55) and put it on the guitar of your choice - even that SRV if you are very careful.  This is moderately expensive.  Pros - play whatever guitar you choose.  Cons - play whatever guitar you choose with a big ugly wart strapped on, with a little bit more fuss keeping the pickup properly positioned.

(2b.  You can add an internal GK kit to the guitar of your choice, but this is serious work; I'd recommend you hire a luthier.  Probably not worth getting into this option here.)

3.  You can buy an FTP pickup and beam straight MIDI to the tone generator (synth/sampler) of your choosing.  This is moderately expensive, but you already own part of the solution in the way of your iPad.  (Elantric can elaborate as to whether you'd need an additional USB to 30-pin adaptor, like the Apple Camera Connection Kit.)  Pros - fastest and most accurate tracking available, or so I'm told; wireless!  Cons - not cheap, adds a little wart to your guitar; none of Roland's COSM goodies (MIDI only); a more complicated configuration and software bundle than I expected (or would have preferred.)

4.  You can stick to software-only audio-to-MIDI solutions (Jam Origin MIDI Guitar) on either the PC or the iPad, and play whatever guitar you'd like.  This the least expensive and most convenient option by far.  Pros - play any guitar and any virtual synth you prefer; you own almost all of it already.  (You might need to hit the App Store or get a suitable audio interface for your iPad.)  Cons - (perhaps) not as fast as some of the hardware solutions, no per-string settings, no alternate tunings.  On the iPad at least, velocity sensitivity is pretty lame and pitch bend is missing-in-action (for now.)

Despite all the cons, 4 is my preferred method right now.  If I needed a solution for serious, live guitar synth work, I'd probably go with 3.  As for 1 and 2... I love my GR55 for the alt. tunings and COSM guitar models, but the reality is that the PCM (synth) tones don't do much for me, and the actual MIDI conversion is not significantly better than Jam Origin's software solution.  Vel. Sensitivity and Pitch Bend are much better, obviously, but it's no faster and glitches as much if not more.  So the return on investment for marrying one guitar or wearing the GK wart is not apparent to me right now.

As for future proofing... my intuition tells me that the software approach will only get better; that this is where the conversion should be happening.  So I'll limp along as is for now, and wait for improvements, rather than buying more hardware.  (But that's just my personal take, and I am not gigging with guitar synth tones at the moment.)


Last and most importantly:  your mileage may vary, and you will hear a lot of different opinions on this topic - none of them wrong.

datsunrobbie

This link will show the used VG-99s at Guitar Center
http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm?page=1&sort=price&dir=asc&srch&q=roland%20vg&distance=100

This one will show used guitars with GK pickups
http://used.guitarcenter.com/usedgear/index.cfm?page=1&sort=price&dir=asc&srch&q=roland%20gk&distance=100

Lots of GK-equipped guitars can also be found on eBay, often for less than the price of a new GK-3 external pickup.

elantric and mbenigni have both supplied great advice, and have a wider range of experience than I do on this topic, as they have spent time checking out non-Roland solutions. I'm firmly entrenched in the 13-pin gear and have an irrational aversion to Apple, so my comments apply only to the Roland solutions.

Having said that, my first recommendation is to find the right electric guitar. If the guitar is right it will be the one you want to grab more than any other one you may own. Check out the forum pages where people have posted their gear and you will see anything from a Squier Strat with an external pickup to the Fender/Roland GC-1 previously mentioned to completely custom one-off guitars that forum members have built or had built. Half the battle is finding the guitar that you want to play,and making sure the intonation is good (a poorly set up guitar will not work well with any guitar-synth setup). Then you have to decide whether to go Roland or another route. If you pick Roland, you can add an external GK pickup to nearly any guitar, and you can move that pickup to another guitar if you want to.  (The Fishman FTP pickup does this too). If you like strats, the GC-1 is probably a great option.

I just checked eBay for "Roland GK" and found several interesting items, including this Optek Fretlight with an external GK pickup: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FRETLIGHT-FG-200-GUITAR-w-ROLAND-GK2-A-DIVIDED-PICKUP-SYNTH-READY-/271329885394?pt=Guitar&hash=item3f2c857cd2
I have one of these, not a bad playing guitar IMHO, and the light-up fretboard can be useful for learning scales. This one is not mine, and I don't know the seller.

Once you have the guitar chosen and set up, then you have to decide what to plug it into. The VG-99 was Roland's flagship processor, recently discontinued but still amazing. Prices are dropping on used ones and Roland has not yet announced a successor (maybe the next NAMM show?). The GR-55 is Roland's latest, combining some of the VG-99 features with two internal PCM synth engines. And then there are the older Roland boxes like the GR-09, GR-20, GR-30, GR-33, VG-8, and VG-88, all of which have their own cool features and can generally be found at much lower prices than the VG-99 or GR-55.



Elantric


Vade

#10
@(its secret skills are only appreciated by a select few)

Hehe, I like that Elantric. Many thanks; you all have been more than generous with your time. I'll look into that YRG II as I ran across it and noted it had some teaching tools associated with it and that might be of some benefit. I'm going to take some time and try to do a bit of research regarding the many products and suggestions made.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Vade

#11
Thanks again for all the previous help and suggestions. This represents my current build plan although the pedal board design isn't finished. I'm hoping to be able to create overlapping loops live and in studio including guitar, vocals, flute, synths, and harmonica. I returned my SRV Strat and got a better buy on Ebay and used the savings to pick up a Triple Play; found the Deluxe Reverb used on Ebay and it works for me although I probably could have gone vintage instead. Is this a more or less workable setup or am I missing some important points?

Edit: 3-14-16

This version of my rig ended up having flaws and shortcomings. See post #106 of this thread to see an updated version and description.


Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

habious

I am FAR from being an expert on MIDI/Synth guitars, but I've built my own synth guitar, own a VG-99, and have been doing computer/home recording and MIDI setups for longer than I'd care to admit.

With that being said, I'm a little confused by your diagram.

In no particular order:

-  Your diagram lists 2 TriplePlay Dongles (one plugged into the PC, one plugged into the hub)
-  You have a "MIDI Foot Control" plugged into your USB hub.  So, is it a USB controller or a MIDI controller?
- There's the cylinder-type thingy that's labelled "SRV Stratocaster" that shows the Triple Play plus TWO arrows going out of it.  One goes to the pedal board (A/B switch, I think), the other to the mixer.  Most guitars have only one audio out...and the output of the Triple Play is wireless to the dongle (which you have 2 of (see above)).
- There's an A/B switch shown on the pedalboard.  Separate from that, there's a box in the middle labelled "AB Switch on Pedalboard".  They both look like they have 2 ins, and one out.  Are these the same A/B switch, or are there 2 of them?


My suggestion (and I'm uber anal-retentive about stuff like this) is, if you really want to map out how things are going to be hooked up, color-code this.  This will help you sort out what's going where, and what kind of signal it's carrying.

You need to note (by color) what's audio, what's "MIDI" (if anything), and what's USB.

If your "PC" is plugged into a wall outlet, and your amp(s) are plugged into a wall outlet, and I'm assuming your pedalboard is plugged into a wall outlet, why would you run your USB hub off of a battery pack?  That, to me, sounds like you're asking for trouble.  It's going to die at some point...at exactly the wrong time.

The "In" and "Out" directional arrows are a good start.

I think, if you get all of this sorted out, you will have quite a few options when it comes to recording music.  Using a setup like this in a live situation, night after night (including setting it up and tearing it down)?  I don't know. 
-  Greg Custom Guitars "KARMA"
-  FretLight FG-421 (factory Ghost-equipped)
-  Steinberger GL7TA (non-GK)
(all guitars are lefties!)

-  VG-99
-  VGA-7 (for gigs)
-  Line6 SpiderValve MkII 212

Vade

#13
Afternoon Habious; Thanks for taking the time to comment. I think what's a bit unclear from my diagram is that it represents major available pathways rather than all the gear that will be connected at once. I may look into some color coding to make that clearer. So let me respond to some of your points in the context of what I just clarified.

@Your diagram lists 2 TriplePlay Dongles (one plugged into the PC, one plugged into the hub)

The dongle would be placed in the PC for input into Sonar X3 Producer or, alternatively, it would be placed into the usb hub to feed the IOS gear.

@There's the cylinder-type thingy that's labelled "SRV Stratocaster" that shows the Triple Play plus TWO arrows going out of it.  One goes to the pedal board (A/B switch, I think), the other to the mixer.  Most guitars have only one audio out...and the output of the Triple Play is wireless to the dongle (which you have 2 of (see above)).

The strat gets input either into the Scarlett 2i2(2i2) and then to the PC for Sonar X3 or into the pedal board. Many other options would be available such as mic from amp to 2i2 or pedal board to 2i2.

@You have a "MIDI Foot Control" plugged into your USB hub.  So, is it a USB controller or a MIDI controller?

I'm thinking I might want a separate control for selecting synths and/or loops on the iPad. The Fishman site had some info on that which I will look into and I'm certainly open to suggestions on the matter.

@There's an A/B switch shown on the pedalboard.  Separate from that, there's a box in the middle labelled "AB Switch on Pedalboard".  They both look like they have 2 ins, and one out.  Are these the same A/B switch, or are there 2 of them?

The first AB on the board would switch between guitar and the impedance matched mic for harmonica. The AB switch with the circle labeled Shure 545 SD would be to send the signal to the pedal board or to the 2i2.

@If your "PC" is plugged into a wall outlet, and your amp(s) are plugged into a wall outlet, and I'm assuming your pedalboard is plugged into a wall outlet, why would you run your USB hub off of a battery pack?  That, to me, sounds like you're asking for trouble.  It's going to die at some point...at exactly the wrong time.

I'm going to need to see if I have issues with AC power as noted by Elantric and if I do the battery pack is to counter that. I'd pretty much just be implementing the system he described...   "An important thing to consider -the noise floor of your audio signal will be directly impacted by the quality of the power supply you intend to use. I'm getting much lower noise using this Limeade Lithium battery pack  - and when I attempted to try alternate types - I noticed either a whining type background noise from a poor quality Power pack - due to the DC-DC HF Switching Power supplies used these days, or much 120Hz AC Power Hum, particularly if you use a guitar with Single coil PU's"


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.msg74428#msg74428

I'm practicing every day, and if I ever get good enough to play live, I'd be going with the pedal board, amp, and iPad setup; leaving the PC at home. I'm not so concerned that I have every AB switch designed flawlessly but more like "is this a good general outline for what I have in mind?" There's not a whole lot more I'd need to build this system, some software, pedals, CCK, and portable PA would pretty much do it. Once I've decided on the general outline I'll get to the specifics of which pedals I need to add a bit of grit, distortion, and especially looping if the IOS looping software isn't to be relied on. At any rate thanks again for your response and I hope everything is a bit clearer now.




Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Vade

#14
Afternoon guitar masters. I'm looking for advice on the best way to eliminate what I suspect is a ground loop buzz coming from my amp. Stratocaster out is buzz free, using either of the following paths alone, but a buzz occurs when I split the guitar signal with the first leg going to my amp which has a microphone feeding to my Scarlett 2i2 audio interface (2i2) left input and the second leg going directly to the 2i2 right input; usb out to PC. I eliminated the buzz by bypassing the amps ground prong in a test but I'm unwilling to have that as my permanent setup. So I'm thinking perhaps a passive Direct Box (DI) will suit my needs? If that's a good solution then which DI?
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BigShotABY?device=c&network=g&matchtype=&gclid=CMKGlJvtnL0CFdBcMgodUFgAzQ
http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-aby.htm


True Bypass Switcher
Designed for the purist, the Radial BigShot ABY is an ultra-compact, 100% passive foot switch that provides true bypass ABY amp switching capabilities with A or B toggle and A + B combine functionality. This assures the guitar signal is routed directly to the amp without any buffering, loading or tone altering circuits.

To add versatility, the BigShot ABY has a built-in transformer that can be engaged to eliminate troublesome ground loops. Once on, you can also ensure your two amps are properly in phase using the 180-degree polarity reverse switch.

The compact yet ultra-rugged design makes the BigShot ABY ideal for pedalboard designs where space is always at a premium. Furthermore, because it does not require powering to make it work, it eliminates the need for batteries and space hungry power supplies.


Radial BigShot ABY True Bypass Switcher Features:
True bypass ABY amp selector with tuner out
On-board transformer to eliminate ground buzz
180-degree polarity reverse to phase-match amps
Compact and rugged for pedalboards
Plug and play easy to use

Vade

#16
It'll be here Thursday so many thanks for the link and your time.

There's much more to be done, but by the end of January I had cleaned and set up my Ebay SRV Strat, Triple Play, and DAW; that's where I mark the real beginning of my electric guitar journey. Thanks again to all who gave advice and helped me get my system up and running. Cheers!


Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Vade

#17
I'm looking to replace my generic power strip with an adequate but economical power conditioner. I've very little noise here in my home studio but I'm not sure it's wise to expect clean power when away. Any favorites?
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

#18
I like small UPS that have Sine Wave out

Often  UPS/ AC Power conditioners designed for A/V  gear go on sale

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-SX500G-Simulated-Sine-Wave/dp/B00L1FOKJ0/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1410282547&sr=1-14&keywords=ups+sine+wave



https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3207.msg83159;topicseen#msg83159

Ends 6/3. World Wide Stereo has the Monster MP HTS 5100 MKII 10-Outlet Home Theater Reference PowerCenter Surge Protector with Clean Power Stage 4 for $800 - $520 off with coupon code DAILYDEAL = $280 with free shipping. 6814 Joule surge protection.

Currently sells for around $500 or more online.

http://www.wwstereo.com/Monster/MP-HTS-5100-MKII?source=pepperjam&publisherId=6473&clickId=931503008






Vade

#19
Hehe, my light mobile rig just got heavier. I'll look into those and keep my eyes peeled for a sale. Thank you.

Edit; Done @ $39.99

http://www.walmart.com/ip/37832936?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227026455239&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=56093388249&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=88698989049&veh=sem
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

I like this version with built in voltmeter.
Allows you to debug why the lights dim and DSP gear reboots when the ice machine kicks in at the club

Vade

Well I searched using the extended product name and got an exact name match. I just failed to notice that it wasn't the exact same model. I'm assuming both will deliver clean power and backup so I'll just have to make do without the led unless it's important enough to return the unit.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Vade

#22
Looks like Amazon messed with me and labeled the LE825DG as the SX500G. They're different enough that I stopped the shipment.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

The Voltmeter can save the day and provide confidence  at many gigs

Vade

There's a big difference in the specs as well so thanks for helping me catch the error. I guess I'll try to download the manual and see how to use that Volt meter. It does sound handy but at 14lbs added on to all my other gear my pedal board is going to be topping 50lbs unless the ups can be fit into my guitar backpack. Even then it's something like 35lbs per hand plus the backpack. Either I'm going to get into shape pretty quickly or I'm going to need to go with some sort of a cart rather than trying to carry everything by hand in one trip. I kind of like the look of these...

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Rock-N-Roller-R6RT-Multi-Cart-8-in-1-Equipment-Transporter-Cart-110723137-i1748320.gc
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie