GR-30 -Another strange GR-30's behaviour

Started by Gaustu, March 11, 2013, 03:17:30 PM

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Gaustu

Hi all, I am just joined to here and very glad to see all you guys who loves MIDI guitar stuff.
I own GR-30 from 2006, got it from the guy in the very good condition and previously I tried Yamaha G50, but could not get the right responsibility from it, gave it back and then GR-30 looked to be w/o all those problems which Yamaha had.
Now I construct a complex stuff combining a midi synths with a live guitar sound processed which controlled by MIDI too...

Ok, I found a very strange thing having something regularity. The wrong notes while 3d string plays. Steps are:

1) turn on midi monitor (I use vst one) for viewing what is going on at every moment.
2) turn on software midi keyboard right there at the same time.
3) pick OPENED 3d string and plus other lower strings (4th and 5th) not matter they are opened or not.
4) look at the midi monitor and midi keyboard and see everything is as it has to be!
5) while strings are decaying, suddenly something unexplainable happens - when midi monitor shows:
6) Channel 3 (on 3d string) NOTE OFF (55, 0)  0 means note off...   Right at this moment the note 73 appears! Along with some portion of pitch bending that goes it unexpectble direction. (If to turn on cromatic mode it ppears w/o bp of course).
7) it may be not only #73 but 74 or 75. But in most case it is 73.

The question is: is that some bug in GR-30 electronics or it is something outside of it?
Why on open G string only?

Another observation. if to hard pick on OPENED thick strings (E, A, D) near to bridge , the output signal chokes very noticeably. It goes just for first 20 milliseconds and then cut. Then apears again after second or so. This makes me think to change my strings to those which sound as much dull as possible but this is bad for a rel guitar sound:(

What do you think about all of this?

Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

PD FX

Open string behaviour of all GR's in general is very bad,
but check your GK pickup! when it resonates at a certain frequency, this would definitely show up in such a manner as described.
A bit of tissue underneath the pickup might do wonders.
Check if the issues dissapear, when you're holding the gk pickup with your fingers.
Also dampen the strings on the non-sounding areas ( between tuners and nut and between stringholders and birdge), they might do the resonating.

When you pluck very close to the bridge, the fundamental component of your tone becomes too weak. You can try alter the analog filters, but I suspect they are best left unmodified.

gumbo

Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

PD FX

Yes, I don think the GR30 should get its own place beside the VG99,VG88,VG8,GR55 here on the vguitarforums..
Now it is in "Other Related Gear", which is not bad, but it feels perhaps a little undervalued..



Elantric

#4
Ill be expanding the new GR30 area at Futureguitarnow

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=467.0



Gaustu

Quote from: Elantric on March 12, 2013, 07:53:47 AM
Ill be expanding the new GR30 area at Futureguitarnow

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=467.0


I thought I am at the right place: Other Related Gear >  Roland GR-30 >  or am I wrong?  Ok sorry, my budget doesnt allow me to get my little dream VG-99
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Gaustu

Thank you for your ideas so much. I use not Roland pickup for feeding GR-30. It's Yamaha G1D hex.
Now I got my old GK-2a from a dusty shelve and changed the magnetic source only (it has the same socket as Yamaha's inside a mounting plastic box.
The difference seems to look huge!
First, picking hard near a bridge does not cause choked notes anymore. Both tested on the same place. Yamaha's is a bit larger (distance between yokes are bigger). So, Roland made more quality pickup. the electronic part are absolutely identical.
As about open strings - a little better result but still the problem presents. I will fix things accordingly your advices.
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.

Elantric

#8
Since I own and use all three, I'll have to take pics and post specs/ measurements of G1D vs GK-2A vs GK-3

Since bulk of my guitars are Gibson style, myself I prefer the Yamaha G1D which has a flatter radius and tighter string spacing compared to GK-2A or GK-3.

Compared to ANY Roland GK pickup, The Yamaha G1D on Gibson style guitars simply works better and is a better mechanical fit in my experience. Its the only 13 pin magnetic hex pickup that allows a Gibson Owner to obtain 1mm string distance to every hex pickup pole piece.


Also this forum "VGuitarForums" was primarily supposed to be a Forum for all Roland hexaphonic COSM Modelling gear only (VG-99, VB-99, GR-55 - only because it also includes COSM Guitar /Amp Modeling) , and several members have written me that they are very annoyed with all the recent "off topic" general MIDI Guitar discussions with older Roland GR-xx  / GIxx that is starting to occur here.

So Ill be expanding the general MIDI Guitar discussions with older Roland GR-xx  / GIxx, and GR-30 area at our sister site, Futureguitarnow.com  - where we encourage wide diverse topics for discussion to all Guitarists.

GR-30 Board
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=467.0

Axon Board
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=461.0

TriplePlay Board
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=458.0

PD FX

Okay, thanks Elantric, I'll move over to futureguitarnow.. I'll transplant my topics there, so that all VG's can dwell undisturbed in their COSMology here ')


audiotrax

I recently purchased a like new (still had the plastic across the display) GR-30 on ebay for $175 including shipping.  Had it for a few months now.  This device is amazing.  The tracking is a huge improvement over my already good Roland GI-10 rack converter. 

Built like a little tank.  Super easy operation.  The tracking is spot on with very few glitches.  Plays equally well with my GK Strat and 2 Ghost MIDI equipped guitars.  Has an input on the back for an external control pedal that outputs to MIDI.

Once you get past the corny factory programs, the built in huge selection of wave forms are actually REALLY good.  Very little throw away gimmick sounds. The sound quality is kind of dark like the older Sound Canvas engine, but that's OK because it gives it a unique contrast to my modern stuff, and it slots sonic-wise really nice right into a mix.

Many of the waveforms are taken directly from my favorite JV expansion board "Vintage Synths" plus ton's of extras that sound like they came from the same sessions that didn't fit on the board.

It also has a beautiful clean separate buffered out so that I can run the straight guitar signal straight thru to my amp or the board right off the back of the unit, and switch it in and out from the GK on board switch.  Only have to run the GK cable from my guitar and not a separate heavy guitar cable.  Very unexpected feature that I use all the time now.

I LOVE the GR-30.  The tracking on this is very forgiving - I would put it up with the best I have experienced yet.  Way happier with this than my frustrating tracking experience on the GR-55.  $175!  Such a deal for keeper technology.  Really, you couldn't go wrong with one of these.

PS>  I have had no problems with hung notes, either internal or MIDI out.
Owner of: VG-88, GI-10, Cubase 5, Kontakt, SampleTank, var VSTI's, Roland JV1080.  Strat with GK-2A, two Roland GR500 analog guitar synths

Gaustu

Quote from: Gaustu on March 11, 2013, 03:17:30 PM
..........
5) while strings are decaying, suddenly something unexplainable happens - when midi monitor shows:
6) Channel 3 (on 3d string) NOTE OFF (55, 0)  0 means note off...   Right at this moment the note 73 appears! Along with some portion of pitch bending that goes it unexpectble direction. (If to turn on cromatic mode it ppears w/o bp of course).
7) it may be not only #73 but 74 or 75. But in most case it is 73.

The question is: is that some bug in GR-30 electronics or it is something outside of it?
Why on open G string only?


I am quoting my own previous post just for a final clearance.
It figured out that the case is overtones of the open string (as was mentioned by Guitarpolson)
Parker PDF85 modified: Sustainiac, SD TB-4, Piezo Hexpander 13 pin out.
GR-55 mod with 13 din thru, 6 analog outputs D-Sub => Presonus FS Mobile  8 analog inputs.
NI Reactor matchHEX Guitar Framer Ensemble custom.