Waking up Roland using Social Media?

Started by Baldadi, January 08, 2013, 05:33:56 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Baldadi

Hi all,

Just put this tweet out:

@Roland_US: many users r screaming for updated firmware of VG99! AXE-FX/Line6 are updating very fast and pulling me away...! Any plans?

It is amazing to see that there are hardly any messages about VG99 or GR55 shared by customers.
Roland just shared a new pic from SLASh with his GR55 though, so the marketeers seem to be awake - sort of ;)
If you search on AXE FX there is a lot more going on obviously.

I guess if more start to "ask questions" through social media Roland more fully understands that there is a serious community they will have to attend. So... it would be nice if more of us can use these channels to "wake up ROLAND"!

See if anything happens,
regards, R

PS: not my intention to flood Roland with messages but as a marketeer I know that this might be a good way to get the attention of ROLAND for our whishes!
See if someone reacts!

whippinpost91850

Roland/Social media may just be a good avenue. Nothing else seems to get their ettention ???

Elantric

#2
QuoteIt is amazing to see that there are hardly any messages about VG99 ...  shared by customers.

This is because so very few VG-99's were sold. Not specifically due to cost (Today there are more Kemper Programmable Amps in actual use than the VG-99)

Mostly due to poor marketing and inability of Roland to explain to the generic guitarist just what the VG-99 is and what it actually does.

How a GK 13 pin MIDI Cable destroyed the success of Roland V-Guitar Modeling products
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14088.0

Sadly most will think the only way to use a VG-99 is with a GK-3, and assume it's a MIDI PU , and fall into misbelief that the Roland VG processors have high latency   Then see this pic (with the "borg-like"  GK-3 pickup mounted on a nice Les Paul) ,

then Realize:

this GK-3 is ugly and my LP will never again fit in my Gibson hardshell case!

- then loose all interest in the Roland VG/GR processors.


Baldadi

Good point Elantric!

Even with the new pic of Slash using the GR55 they have molested a Les Paul just like the one in your pic... I guess the marketeers do not have a clue what their customers want and how to appel to them...

Hmmm, just hot an idea... They should hire me  ;D !!! LOL...

I'll get right on it and talk to the CEO. Make some noise ;-)

szilard

Quote from: Elantric on January 08, 2013, 09:56:58 AM
This is because so very few VG-99's were sold. Not specifically due to cost (Today there are more Kemper Programmable Amps in actual use than the VG-99)

Mostly due to poor marketing and inability of Roland to explain to the generic guitarist just what the VG-99 is and what it actually does.


Yeah, I agree. At the local Sam Ash store I was talking to one of the sales people about their vg-99 and they said it might be good in a studio, but they wouldn't use it live.

I think another problem is that some stores didn't seem interested in keeping the demo models setup. When the vg-99 first came out I went to a local GC to try it and the setup was a mess. You couldn't just pick up the guitar and play it. I have a GM-70 & GR-33 so I figured out how to set it up enough that it sold me, but if some one wasn't familar with 13 pin guitar pickups they would have been out of luck - one of the sales people walked over while I was setting it up and said they didn't know how it worked. There also wasn't any documentation with the demo unit.

And another complaint I have - four GCs and a Sam Ash near by and none of them have a Roland GC-1.

mapperboy

Warning - Long post, just have to rant it!

Yeah, I don't think 'pieces' of the Roland org care either, but I also think that other more creative-designer faces in the org do care.
I don't know anyone who's been involved in Roland's yearly marketing strategy sessions or how they decide to handle a product's lifecycle but if it's anything like other electronics companies (I used to work for a major TELCO who also sells their own OEM'd cellphones), then they have some awful pressures bearing on them to be profitable and answerable  to the mighty shareholders.  Musical instruments especially non-traditional instruments (and I consider the VG-99 and GR-55 to be instruments) are SUCH a fussy, myth ridden, promotional endorsement dependent, player hero dependent, traditional and conservative industry it's a wonder that some even manage to survive.  Graph Tech who has a really good piezo pickup line is a local company here and a recent inside article in the local press had quotes from the founder indicating that the instrument industry is so tradition ridden that it took 12 years to convince makers/manufacturers that the black graphtech nut was OK to be mounted as actually worked better!  Seems the makers reported that their buyers couldn't tolerate have a BLACK nut on their instruments like it just looked plain WRONG.

Then there's the technology expense curve to contend with where only big headlines can budget for the new tech (early samplers and jaw dropper keys like the Fairlight were about $50-100K fully loaded, Stevie Wonder could afford one, could you or I?). Should a new VG-99 really have to cost more than a well loaded PC or MAC several years after it's introduction? Probably yes if you don't sell very many. Even at the deep discount of $1,100 it's still not a snap decision for many to 'experiment' with. 

Then add to the mix a bit of the never ending corporate cost cutting mania, restructuring and outsourcing and what you get is a few rapidly selling products being given proper care and feeding at all the supply chain levels but the slow moving market dogs are treated lukewarm or ignored at best.

At the local Long and McQuade (the biggest big-box musical dealer in Canada) here in the Lower Mainland of BC I've been told numerous times that they have sold at most 4-5 VG/GR units a year and it's a big elephant expense to have a demo unit and backroom stock taking up space (but they at least did maintain the official Roland display for quite a while which really helped sell me).  It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.  You can't get the artist exposure so nobody's interested and because the Major Jazz/World/Folk/Grunge/Metal whatever Gods are not making it obvious that they are getting great sound innovations by using them...so then you claim there's no interest or demand.

I was told by another old, reputable and passionate but smaller local guitar shop who I really wanted to buy a GR-55 from that they weren't even 'allowed' by Roland to carry anything but the Boss line because their dealer arrangement would require them stock upwards of 10 units or nothing at all. Of course given the estimated sales they might have they backed down. Now these guy do have the time and patience to sell the technology...If they could get the units from Roland (Canada) to demo on their floor! I wonder if the stocking quantity is same for dealers in the States?

As far as the big name and visibility endorsement game strategy working...I overheard a salesman sincerely recommend to a knowledgeable quitarist who was undecided about getting a new rather expensive dedicated Wah pedal that they should keep in mind that 'the guitarist in Letterman's TV band, is using one of those and therefore it's becoming the pro standard now!' Hmm, he bites -Sold.

Yeah it's a really tough sell to traditional players who are happy with a Strat, a LP and a couple of $3,000 custom overdriven tube amps (they're hand wired with $100/ft oxygen free wire, wax dipped and baked for 7 days, and blessed by the spirit of Les Paul you know!)  and veritable suitcase full of vintage pedals just like the Jimmys used.  And what's this synth clean touch technique thing. "Why the damn thing just respond to my playing without the mouse up and dying in there as well.  I've been playing for 25 years and my techniques good enough for blues/folk/classical/shedding...isn't it?
So all of you are right; what Roland should be investing in is really good expert sales Rep with great people skills who can work the VG and GR boxes backwards and are experienced as good teachers to be able to give intelligent answers to prospective buyers.  Are they going to do that? ...or just move on to what they hope will be the next more profitable pedal or beyond concept.
BTW anyone heard the latest on the next midi miracle, the Fishman Triple Play? I fear there's even worse corporate marketroids, Catberts, Dogberts and Pointy hair bosses at work there.

When a TV or Cable Network cancels a show but has unaired episodes, they sometimes 'Burn' it off by broadcasting those episodes in some early morning AM or other largely ignored time slot just to fulfill the contract.  Lets hope that never happens to our favorite pedals and boxes!

Feliz Nuevo Ano Cheers to all VG-GR dedicated and persevering owners and artists out there, we'll keep this line of gear alive even if we have to DIY.
-m   
"No such thing as spare time.
No such thing as free time.
No such thing as down time.
All you got is life time. Go!"
- Henry Rollins

PD FX

#6
Would be nice if Roland would suddenly stumble out of bed and do the updates and bugfixes the customer wants, but they wont do that, because aftersales doesn't bring any direct money.
Only if the notice they can sell no stuff nomore, they well rethink their strategy, but probably end up with a new product to satisfy us, ofcourse again without a vision of aftersales, updates or anything.
They always did it this way, but now it is more obvious because of the other modern firms that do real updates and stuff. Fishman, Line 6, Axe FX: they do updates and upgrades on a regular basis for their customers. Because they are modern companies.
Even Fender now is more modern as Roland, just take a look at their small Mustang amps, and how you can edit them by nice computersoftware! If gumtown hadnt taken the time, there wouldn't even exist an editor for the gr-55...

Roland will never react to social media, because Roland is not a living person you can talk too, it a huge apparatus, nobody will talk on behalve of it.





aliensporebomb

Quote from: Elantric on January 08, 2013, 09:56:58 AM
This is because so very few VG-99's were sold. Not specifically due to cost (Today there are more Kemper Programmable Amps in actual use than the VG-99)

Mostly due to poor marketing and inability of Roland to explain to the generic guitarist just what the VG-99 is and what it actually does.

Sadly most will think the only way to use a VG-99 is with a GK-3, see this pic - then run for the hills


Yes indeed.  How many did they sell altogether?  Under 10,000?  Under 5,000? 

But my thoughts:

First of all, the marketing was the most tentative thing I've ever seen by a major electronics firm.   I saw two different ads and they both either didn't really picture the product or was something that was easily able to be glossed over amongst the other ads.  And I only saw each ad once and both were in Guitar Player.  None in the other competing guitar magazines of the time.

In fact, I just tried to search for the ads on google images and saw nothing.  So they might have been in one or two issues but honestly - I've never seen such an underadvertised product. 

This is why I maintain that someone made an insult or gaffe towards someone important at Roland regarding this product and they pushed it under the rug. 

What about prominent placement with known players?  With the old Roland GR series you had a lot of major players using them: Andy Summers, Jimmy Page, Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Neal Schon, Edgar Froese [Tangerine Dream] were all prominent users. 

That blue box got a lot of mileage in the hands of known players.  Now we know that there are a certain number of known players using the VG-99 but there's a lot out there to to compete with the 99 for players attention: AxeFX, Kemper, a growing collection of boutique tube amps, the new lines of lunchbox recording amps from many manufacturers.  Lots of new stompboxes out there. 

And factually the expendable income that was available a decade ago for many players just isn't there.  People are fighting for gigs and just getting their music out there.

The facts:
A complicated, expensive device with a heavy expensive floor controller with 200 patches that doesn't play to the devices strengths that requires specialized guitars to use fully that has as many weaknesses as it has strengths is a hard sell even in an up economy.

I love the VG-99 and what it can do but I also realize there's lots of stuff out there that has caught up to it in some ways.  All of this stuff is expensive and I always try to get lots of use out of the stuff I do buy.  But I can't count the number of times I've been out at a gig and people go "how come I haven't heard of this wonder box?"  Why indeed.





My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

musicman65

There is NO single replacement for a well utilized VG99 as of today. It is a unique device that was misunderstood, poorly marketed, not updated, and never adopted by mainstream users. With that, it is still amazing, deep, complex, and addictive. I will be using mine for years to come, even if only as a front end to my Kemper.

bd

PD FX

I'm looking at the demo vid's on youtube of the VG99 (I just own gr30+gr55). Sounds really great ofcourse, but: it looks definitely bad on stage. The thing is actually in the way, it is mostly in front of the player, the angle where the audience is annoyed by it. (the audience is NOT interested in your electronics, they want YOU!)

An important rule is, that the audience should think you are getting it out of your fingers, and not out of some box standing in the way. It is not sexy having a thing that could be mistaken for a keyboard in front of you!
When I'm looking at the demo's, I immediately feel better, at times the VG99 is not in the picture, my eyes then see more of the player, the sound stays perfect ')

If they had put the VG99 in the same casing as the GR55, it would have sold five- to tenfold, I'm sure, because it is a great machine, but it doesnt say "we will rock you" in its looks in any way..  Roland simply disregarded the importancy of "image" on stage.
Just imagine Pat Metheny standing there with a VG-99 in front of him, this would be way less cool than him having a nice blue GR300 out of the way on the ground. Test: Take all artists you know, imagine them with a VG99 in front of them.. Do they look  better with or without it?
The product VG99 isn't self-advertising, if its used on stage, it will be often hidden in a rack somewhere.
So it is not primairly because of how it looks in a graphical sense, but more which part of the stage it wants to occupie!.

So here's my message to the Roland world:
Be more sexy, Roland! Your #VG apparatus should be floorbased, sturdy and compact!

PS: by no means I want to offend any user of the great VG99, but since so many of you are concerned with the relative unpopularity of it, it seems right for me to point out what's wrong with the image of the product, the image that prevent the majority of interested people from buying it.















musicman65

"An important rule is, that the audience should think you are getting it out of your fingers, and not out of some box standing in the way. It is not sexy having a thing that could be mistaken for a keyboard in front of you!"

Wow....that is an insult to keyboard players. What about all those guitar players with elaborate stomp box setups in front of them? Must I have a 412 cab also? I think this "important rule" is not universally held. Its like saying "only drug skinny, long haired, tatooed guitar players are sexy"...lol!

Of course, the VG99 can be run BEHIND the user by using the FC300 midi pedal which is designed as the perfect match to complement the VG99...and has lots of I/O.

Comparing the VG99 as a desktop console device to the GR55 reveals they are nearly equal due to the HORRIBLE I/O limitations agrivated by massive switching lag of the GR. Roland should have either designed plenty of I/O in the device so staying a single patch is easy or switch patches fast. It has few inputs/outputs and switches too slow rendering it as a compromised system requiring mods and workarounds.

bd






cynegetic

I actually find that the design of the brains on a stand for easy access to be quite ingenious .

tekrytor

Quote from: cynegetic on January 13, 2013, 09:31:48 AM
I actually find that the design of the brains on a stand for easy access to be quite ingenious .
That concept with a 7 inch diagonal touchscreen and a wireless/Bluetooth/similar foot controller would be perfect for the GR/VG-77, whatever they call the next-gen device. Or better yet, all in a floor unit with an app that runs on Android and iPad for touch control/editing/etc. Enough with the dog UIs. Give us VG/GR users finally what the keyboard players have had for DECADES.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

aliensporebomb

#13
Quote from: musicman65 on January 13, 2013, 09:21:52 AM
"An important rule is, that the audience should think you are getting it out of your fingers, and not out of some box standing in the way. It is not sexy having a thing that could be mistaken for a keyboard in front of you!"

Wow....that is an insult to keyboard players. What about all those guitar players with elaborate stomp box setups in front of them? Must I have a 412 cab also? I think this "important rule" is not universally held. Its like saying "only drug skinny, long haired, tatooed guitar players are sexy"...lol!

Of course, the VG99 can be run BEHIND the user by using the FC300 midi pedal which is designed as the perfect match to complement the VG99...and has lots of I/O.

Comparing the VG99 as a desktop console device to the GR55 reveals they are nearly equal due to the HORRIBLE I/O limitations agrivated by massive switching lag of the GR. Roland should have either designed plenty of I/O in the device so staying a single patch is easy or switch patches fast. It has few inputs/outputs and switches too slow rendering it as a compromised system requiring mods and workarounds.

bd

Yeah - behind is fine.  This is the big rig configuration of my setup (basically set-up for recording in the pict here but but using the JC120 for live use with my band...):

It's fine...

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

PD FX

#14
@musicman65: Standing behind a keyboard if different from standing behind a vg-99, imho.  A keyboard is an instrument, recognized as such by the audience, just as a guitar is recognized as such.
@cynegetic: I never suggested that having a console in front of you wouldn't be genius or the like, it just not mainstream/widely accepted
-Stuff on the floor is less visible for the audience, whe all know those pictures from our gigs where the mike stands actually spoil the image!
But hey, those where only my thoughts on it! I'm just a guy who likes to have the stuff on the floor
Maybe the next generation is just a 5mm thick touchscreen on your guitar, thats also allright with me too! ')

I was just analysing why the VG-99 is not as vast a succes as it should be, and I think it lies mostly in its non-standard appearance, that's all. If I had the money I would have bought a VG99 long ago, and would put it behind me with a remote in front of me on the floor, or perhaps I'd use a midiremote glued to my guitar ( Glueing things to guitar is also not widely accpeted, but I just happen to like that..')





Macciza

Seriously . ..
Having it 'in front' is a problem? Then just put it to the side . . .
Thats what I usually do on my right side - with the FC300 a few feet away on the floor in front of me . . .

If I want to tweak an amp setting - the knobs are there at hand height
Using the DBeam is pretty simple too, how do you use it on the floor?

The biggest problem re the VG is your standard guitarist . . .
'70s Strat, Brian Moore iM, VG-8, VG-99, FC-300, VL-70m, StringPort, SoftStep, Sentient6, iMac QC i7 27".

Piing

Do we have a post with a Wish List of all the things that we would like to be corrected/included in a future firmware revision? I have used the search function but I could only find scattered information.

It would be nice to have everything in one post, so it would be easier in the case that they ever listen to us. Another separated thread with a VG100 Wish List would also be interesting. I do not open it myself because firstly I would like to confirm that it doesn't already exists.

musicman65

"The biggest problem re the VG is your standard guitarist . . ."

So very true. As a whole, guitarists are stuck in the past. Who gives a rip if a guitar rig meets audience expectations on how it should look? Look at Jeff Healy. He was blind and played his Strat overhanded face up on his lap while sitting. It sounded great. RIP Jeff.

bd


Brent Flash

#18
Quote from: Piing on January 13, 2013, 06:07:59 PM
Do we have a post with a Wish List of all the things that we would like to be corrected/included in a future firmware revision? I have used the search function but I could only find scattered information.

It would be nice to have everything in one post, so it would be easier in the case that they ever listen to us. Another separated thread with a VG100 Wish List would also be interesting. I do not open it myself because firstly I would like to confirm that it doesn't already exists.
It is here: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=256.msg176901#msg176901

Piing

Thank You Brent Flash.

I have planted one seed at the Roland UK Forum:

http://www.rolandforums.co.uk/forums/viewthread/5992/

Elantric

#20
 WISH LIST FOR NEXT ROLAND UNIT ? What's your ultimate pedal?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=256.msg176901#msg176901

gumtown

#21
Quote from: Piing on January 13, 2013, 06:37:14 PM
Thank You Brent Flash.

I have planted one seed at the Roland UK Forum:

http://www.rolandforums.co.uk/forums/viewthread/5992/

And I answered your question there to add a little more fuel to the fire.  ;D

You are more likely to be better results from either some prayer, or beating a dead horse with a whip.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Baldadi

I got a message that @RolandUS had "favorited" my tweet.

What does that mean... Well nothing specific really, but it is sometimes used to lift s tweet from the mass of tweets to be addressed later... Sigh...

It least it was actually read. :o

I really urge you all to retweet or to post your own tweets.
I know that social media is high On the agenda of managing/communication/marketing boards to monitor all activity and brandimage! A forum is is read by only à few, social has a far wider and 'out in the open' impact!

Good to see everyone is so involved!

R


Piing

Quote from: Baldadi on January 14, 2013, 02:36:58 AM
... monitor all activity and brandimage!

Funny thing: I read it twice, and twice I read "braindamage". Think I need to adjust my eye glasses!  ::)

Hennisdk

I saw they released a Windows 8 Driver for the VG-99, so maybe they are lurking!  :o
Ibanez CT Series (Very Old)
Ibanez EDR470 Ergodyne - Cosmic Black (GK-3 PUP)
Epiphone Les Paul (Zakk Wylde)(GK-3 PUP)
Takamine EG523SCB (Warm sound with 12 Gauge Strings)

Line6 Spider IV 15 amp
Studio Monitors for VG-99

Roland VG-99
BOSS DS-1 Pedal
Sennheiser Wireless Guitar System