GR-55 - Why I returned my GR55 and Went Retro

Started by Davis, December 04, 2012, 11:25:20 PM

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Davis

I purchased the GR55 about 3 weeks ago and gave it an honest field test. I tweaked and played and really wanted to love it. For the first few days that shiny LED screen greeted me like a puppy waiting to play when I got home. Over the days, I was less and less enthused about it and when push came to shove, I ended up returning it. I didnt make this post to whine about my experience, but more as a constructive way for Roland to improve their next gen of synths. Its a tough call for them, there is only so much demand for this kind of gear and they cannot really segment the market but segment they must to retain customers like me.

The positives have all been spoken here and there are many. It is not a bad rig, far from it. So I am not dissing the machine, or attempting to throw a wet blanket on those of you who are loving the rig. You have every reason to, it is a fine rig, for some people.

So why did I return it? For one, I had no use for the extensive COSM sound banks. A performer would love them, no doubt about it. But try as I did, they always felt artificial to me and I got much more nuance out of my regular guitar output into a simple effects system. This loss of nuance, that manufactured COSM sound, just really got on my nerves. Its hard to put into words, how subtle changes in my pick angle and attack on the fretboard yield huge dividends through a regular effects rack, but limited ones through COSM. I know this can be debated, but my ear doesnt lie. Its a preference thing, tweak as I may, I did not take much pleasure in ripping solos with the COSM models. And so much of this rig are the modelled sounds. I just didnt relate the sounds and couldnt express my musical ideas transparently through them. So given that I had no use for the COSM library and that I could obtain much of the same sound by tweaking my current rig, for my purposes, that was alot of wasted features. Wasted, in that a used GR20 goes for 300 or so and gives me what I really wanted, synth sounds.

Lets get on to the synth sounds. Try as I may, the 3 sounds per bank setup just got under my skin. The factory patches were not so interesting for me, mixtures of vibraphone, EP and guitar, just did nothing for me. Okay, so its time to tweak. And tweak you must, for every inch of sonic ground. The GR20 setup, with related sounds nicely arranged and good out of the box, make sense the way I play. The ability to access the front panel and change resonance and some other parameters such as delay, lead to a more fluid playing experience for me on the GR20. I would find the woodwinds and swap sax and other sounds until I found something I liked. The sounds on the GR20 to my ear, out of the box, are just as good and in some cases better, ie. Moody Sax, etc..than the GR55. Now I know that one can create their own sound, but this is alot of work and essentially involves replacing almost all of the presets with your own user bank sounds. Options anxiety sets in and one gets lost in menus for a long time.

The next issue relates to editing on the GR55. It is, for me, cumbersome and tiresome. Some folks like the options and I can understand that. But to me, the endless menus seem to detract from the music creation and I wasnt able to enjoy the process. The endless menus and sub menus were not intuitive and involved a real switch to left brain thinking. For me that was a big minus. I get more enjoyment using the microkorg analog dial setups, even with their dizzying matrix. There is somethign I like about turning a knob and hearing an immediate result. I can trigger the microkorg using the GR20 interface and get that instant gratification. In other words, if I want to do some sonic exploring, there are far more intuitive and just plain easy ways to do that using a the microkorg, at 250 used, with its vocorder, I can get that immediate sonic fix.

I think the GR55 suffers from this endless menu diving far too much. I did not want to hook it up to my laptop to use the floorboard editor to do simple things like program a fresh patch from scratch, oscillator by oscillator. I come from a long history of synth use, my first synth was a Peggity, we had to link oscillators and VFOs etc using cables! I still like to have access to this kind of tweaking and I think this way. Menu navigation to tweak sounds just doesnt feel right to me. For many it is just fine, dating back to the FM synthesis style of the DX7.

The lack of an arpeggiator was a negative, I feel that for this rig it would make it infinitely more usable for modern trance, house, dance and other genres. The lack of an input to control the synth via keyboard was another minus, it made the drum sounds virtually useless. How simple it would be to have it accept midi data to use an octapad or another device. Instead the drum bits are basically useless and involve a fair amount of tweaking in play style and setup to use. Tweaking is too generous here, I should say workaround!

The bundling of COSM libraries with the rig seemed to bias its design and I think detracted from the pure synthesis aspect of things. How delightful it would have been to have a set of programmable control knobs on a separate unit, connected to the floor board. Using the pedals is one thing, having to either forget them or bend down to make adjustments on the fly to change parameters like VFO freq, resonace, LPF etc...is silly. This rig does not encourage on the fly tweaking for performance, you have to program it all ahead of time and then painstakingly organize it for performance. And what to do with the gazillions of bad presets, that sit idle and rarely used.

So in summary, this market should be segmented, either focus on COSM or focus on real time synthesizer new sound creation. Trying to do both, made the GR55 master of none. A tweakers dream, to me, a real time looper new sound explorer's nightmare.

I have purchased a used GR20 to pair with a Godin Freeway SA. This comes to my last disappointment, the tracking. The tracking for fast solo play is not much better than the GR20. It is a mild improvement and the customization of feel is impressive. BUT, that having been said, I did not see a dramatic increase in tracking compared to the Godin piezo setup with the 20. I missed alot of notes when I soloed fast and thats okay, its an imperfect technology. But to state that it is a huge step forward in responsiveness would be an exaggeration.

The GR20 is not a dream machine by any means. It is a simplistic version of the 55, with no real valid comparisons. But linking it to the korg micro or other brains and then using it this way is entirely doable, there are so many virtual synths as well that one can use integrated with Abelton 8. At the end of the day, my combination of the GR20s easy to use interface alongside an external analog style midi module like the korg, will serve me well.

Alas, GR55, I wanted to love thee. And for another person, it will make them very happy. But I did not see a huge step forward, I saw instead, the merging of COSM libraries with BOSS effects and basically the same synthesizer bundled with it. To me, that did not justify the 500 dollar price difference and I think that the lack of an intuitive, user friendly interface that allows real time control of tones for creative performance, ie, gimme a dial to turn, was a deal breaker. Hopefully the folks at Roland who I have honored by buying almost every gen of the GRs they have made, will look at the massive market appeal seen in the DJ, loop maker and dance, slash/creative synthesist market and rethink the next gen. Leave the COSM and effects for a separate unit and focus on creative sound smithing that can be done by the user.

I love this forum and will remain on board! The GR20 is still a Vguitar!

Thanks folks,

Davis

PD FX

Hello Davis,
I agree, many sounds of the GR55 sounds less than on previous GR versions.. I own 2 GR30's (got a spare own, bought for 35 euro:)   and many sounds of the GR30 are not on GR55. Trumpet on GR30 is really better! And then there are those aftertouch possibilities witch are really cool for synthbass, non the like on GR55...
I dont know the GR20 personally, but I can agree with your comments regarding editing. Why the hell are there all these buttons on the GR55 that noone will ever use? Why are the old double pedal functions gone?
Yes, it is about time Fishman hits Roland severely with his Triple Play. maybe then Roland will rethink his strategy.

Every now and then I compensate my GR55 editing blues by playing pure acoustic guitar music. That way I can say that the GR55 is inspiring in all cases.. ")

pedwards2932

Guess its to each his own.....I have owned Roland synths since the GR30 which I absolutely loved.  I got a GR20 with a purchase of a Godin and absolutely hated it.  There was just no good way to use it live you had to have a patch list and set patches in some order so you could use more than one patch.  They took away my favorite sax sound so I just couldn't find any reason to keep or use the GR20.  The GR 20 gave you virtually NO way to really tweak a sound and NO guitar modelling.  I got the GR55 and for me playing in a band out live it has been a great purchase.  I am not sure what you are talking about artificial sounds.....it is guitar modeling.  Here again in a live situation playing these models against the real thing I would bet that there would be very few if anyone in the audience that could tell the difference.  I carry just the GR55, a guitar, and amp to gig now...it really downsized what I need to bring.  Personally I don't  think 3 weeks is long enough to really know what you can do with the GR 55  I have had mine several months and I am still learning......just my 2 cents.

mbenigni

#3
QuoteMenu navigation to tweak sounds just doesnt feel right to me. For many it is just fine...

Nah, there are two types of GR55 users - those who navigate the menus grudgingly, and those who don't navigate the menus at all. 

I use an iPad and TouchOSC for (almost) all of my editing.  If I didn't have that I'd use

Gumtown's GR-55 Floorboard app.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2951.0




  And if I didn't have that, I'd do the same thing you did: sell the GR55.

QuoteThe bundling of COSM libraries with the rig seemed to bias its design and I think detracted from the pure synthesis aspect of things.... So in summary, this market should be segmented, either focus on COSM or focus on real time synthesizer new sound creation. Trying to do both, made the GR55 master of none.

Here I disagree with you.  Yes, the GR55 is compromised, and your complaints are all valid, but I don't think the solution is to give up on a properly integrated solution with both synthesis and COSM.  The solution is to make one or both of these better.  If you're just looking for a dedicated synth or a dedicated effects module/preamp for guitar, there are already plenty of ways to skin that cat.

Then again, I happen to like the COSM instrument modeling - some of the guitars are very cool IMO, and of course they are the ticket if you need alternate tuning for guitar parts.  Even a few (certainly not all) of the COSM amps can be surprisingly good.  I don't especially care for the effects (the part that should have been easy to get right LOL) but even if they're not premium guitar effects they still have utility value, e.g. to apply to synths etc. in order to personalize your sounds.

QuoteHow delightful it would have been to have a set of programmable control knobs on a separate unit, connected to the floor board.
That would be fantastic.  Of course to have it both ways - an all in one floorboard format and a modular format with separate controller - would increase cost signficantly, so I wouldn't expect Roland to provide this out of the box.  As it is, you can make an external controller yourself if you're resourceful - whether it's a tablet, a laptop, or a pile of DIY hardware.

QuoteAnd what to do with the gazillions of bad presets, that sit idle and rarely used.
Sadly, you ignore them.  I don't mind ignoring/ deleting bad presets, but I do mind all of the hardwired controls that serve only to navigate through those same presets in the way that some engineer at Roland arbitrarily decided (Lead, Rhythm, User, etc.)

In summary, I agree with all of your complaints ("left-brained" is a good way to describe the GR55, and the Roland experience in general) but I'd sooner hope for a GR55 successor that does more , not less. 

Deus02

#4
Quote from: mbenigni on December 05, 2012, 06:24:24 AM
Nah, there are two types of GR55 users - those who navigate the menus grudgingly, and those who don't navigate the menus at all. 

I use an iPad and TouchOSC for (almost) all of my editing.  If I didn't have that I'd use the Floorboard app.  And if I didn't have that, I'd do the same thing you did: sell the GR55.

Here I disagree with you.  Yes, the GR55 is compromised, and your complaints are all valid, but I don't think the solution is to give up on a properly integrated solution with both synthesis and COSM.  The solution is to make one or both of these better.  If you're just looking for a dedicated synth or a dedicated effects module/preamp for guitar, there are already plenty of ways to skin that cat.

Then again, I happen to like the COSM instrument modeling - some of the guitars are very cool IMO, and of course they are the ticket if you need alternate tuning for guitar parts.  Even a few (certainly not all) of the COSM amps can be surprisingly good.  I don't especially care for the effects (the part that should have been easy to get right LOL) but even if they're not premium guitar effects they still have utility value, e.g. to apply to synths etc. in order to personalize your sounds.

That would be fantastic.  Of course to have it both ways - an all in one floorboard format and a modular format with separate controller - would increase cost signficantly, so I wouldn't expect Roland to provide this out of the box.  As it is, you can make an external controller yourself if you're resourceful - whether it's a tablet, a laptop, or a pile of DIY hardware.

Sadly, you ignore them.  I don't mind ignoring/ deleting bad presets, but I do mind all of the hardwired controls that serve only to navigate through those same presets in the way that some engineer at Roland arbitrarily decided (Lead, Rhythm, User, etc.)

In summary, I agree with all of your complaints ("left-brained" is a good way to describe the GR55, and the Roland experience in general) but I'd sooner hope for a GR55 successor that does more , not less.

As an old guitar player going back many years when I played instruments that by today's standards one would qualify as "vintage" when it comes to instruments and what to use,I have never really been a traditionalist so with the use of these units,  I enjoy the ever increasing expansion of creativity and the fun that goes along with them and that just what it should be all about, they are "tools" in a computer age, designed for that purpose.  I think back when I was a kid first starting out, I couldn't even dream of the possibilities that units like the GR55  would have provided to me, so now, in my advancing years, I am having more fun with music than I ever have even when I was playing professionally.  Floor pods and their equivalent are a "geeks" delight and if you like "tweaking" their a dream and given the time and patience, one can can achieve quality sounds out of them BUT, given the many options and menus along with all the permutations and combinations of stuff one can do, it does take some time AND patience. I have only had my GR55 now for a few weeks and I have barely scratched the surface.  There is also the obvious issue of the different sounds and what appeals to one won't appeal to another.  Of course, if you just want to take your guitar and amp to a gig and just plug it in and go along with a floor unit that instantaneously gives you all the sounds at your fingertips that will automatically appeal to you, then I guess these products aren't for you.

I must admit though and I am in agreement with others who complain that the Roland equipment like the GR55 does not have the most intuitive or easiest interface to get where you want to go and given Roland's vast experience, it is a mystery why this still seems to be a problem. For example, compared to the Line 6 Floor Pods(which I also own)the Line 6 user interfaces and the ability to create the sound that you want, for me anyway, just seems to be somewhat easier and faster which also applies to their on line editing as well. 


mapperboy

Well, I haven't sold my GR-55 yet; I got it about 3 months ago and am now after some initial disappointments am quite enjoying it. Sure it has limitations and frustrations all of which have by now been identified and ranted on and I share many of them, but...

After returning to music after a long hiatus (OMG it was 25 years!) -and not having a pro gig career under my belt, I find I can approach this 'instrument' with my new old ears.

My last run with a synthesizer of any kind was a Korg T-1 (cause my original training starting as a 9 yr old was keyboard) and in '85 the Korg was sooo cool it froze every other key synth out.  I still have it and the same issues of menu diving popped up on that instrument as just about every other synth since then.  The whole issue of the use of sampled (PCM) instruments and/or combination with electronic wave generation and analog/digital signal maniupulation is itself a never ending topic of debate.  I attended a few concerts in college featuring the 'radical' musician-philosopher John Cage where his Prepared piano drove people to get up and leave.  Was the piano making real music when he used pickups and contact mics along with tuning forks and things that rattle against strings?  Its all in the beholder and I'm finding that debate still raging here (it always will).  Now having spent the last 25 years (why I was away from music) in the Telecom industry you can geek any technology literally to death and end up never getting any appreciation and enjoyment out of it, and this especially applies to electronics and music.  When I originally did my keyboard training it was on a Hammond B3.  OMG, said many of my classical Pipe Organ teachers, is that thing supposed to be an organ!  Sounds like fake sh***. 

So now 80 years since it's invention, where's the R&B/Soul music lovers appreciation of that 'learned' sound.  Right up there with the Gold Top Les Paul worship I'd say, even to the point that if a sampled and waved B3 imitator doesn't have exactly the key click defect of the B3 (and it was considered by Hammond to be a defect) its just not acceptable.  Again, its in the ear/brain of the beholder.

As has been said in this discussion, the GR-55 is simply a music generation tool and if you learn to use it as such you will be rewarded.  I do love the fact that it as a stand-alone unit I can take it to some improv jams which I've recently joined and with a little woodshed preparation get all the guitars, effects and non guitar instruments (I'm even getting use out of some of the 'Beat and Rhythm' tones) I need.  Oh and the other thing, I can switch to Bass Mode and thunder away on my Godin A4 Ultra Fretless as well!.

The last few years I've been doing backline volunteering for Jazz festivals and the amount of computer gear and associated interface devices even with some of the traditional greats and their sidemen has multiplied exponentially.  But of course there's the next act, the guy with just a beat up Strat and an old Twin, doesn't even bother getting DI'ed into the house mix board and he also rocks the house. Hmm, is it really the gear???

As I overheard in my local big box music retailer recently said by one friend to another while trying out all the acoustics on the racks and almost settling on a new Gibson Hummingbird reissue "I know you don't quite like it now, but wait, you'll learn to love it".

And my recommended reading for today is Daniel Levitin "This Is Your Brain On Music". Its an amazing and wonderful music-brain research summary and especially though provoking reading for musicians coming from the former producer/engineer turned neuroscientist who worked with the likes of Stevie Wonder, Steely Dan, Santana, the Dead, Jacko, Blue Oyster Cult.

Go use your tools!
"No such thing as spare time.
No such thing as free time.
No such thing as down time.
All you got is life time. Go!"
- Henry Rollins

sloopdawg

I like the 55 but understand what your sayin'. I like it for what it is and not for what it should/could be (I've come to terms with that). One thing I can say with confidence is that Roland isn't listening.

Machh_2

#7
Nothing is perfect in this world... But GR-55 is a very nice musical tool...
if Roland sold you a lemon, make lemonade ...

have fun !!!! GR-55 is a great musical experience...

Davis

#8
I take your comments under advisement. You have all made cogent points. I will reconsider my return after reflecting on your comments. Thank you so much, you did address the issues and negated some of my criticisms. After reading your input, I admit to making some judgement errors in my post about the overall utility of the unit.

Thank you for taking the time to address my post. Taking the time to counter mistaken comments does require effort and it is appreciated.

Moderators, should we leave this thread up, or truncate it, I think that my impressions are changed by our forum input and some of my points have less validity then I intended. Pedworks made a signicant comment about 3 weeks being an unfair period to judge complex technology. He is correct.

Elantric

I suggest we leave it up - it can serve as a reference for others, and the full thread with counterpoint arguments will help others in the future.

Toby Krebs

#10
3 weeks was long enough to find out what you needed to know and I respect that. However unless you start using only a couple of Japanese made Boss pedals from the 80s' and a 1982 Marshall JCM 800 or a very old Twin and nothing else I don't think you have gone retro. The guitar tones of the GR55 and the newer Line 6 stuff( both of which I use most of the time) are on the guitar side a fully realized recorded guitar sound. Not a "guitar amp in the room" sound. Of course their are differences anyone with experience will notice. I was able to do a 6 hour gig leading a jazz trio yesterday with a GR55-Line HD300 and an alto 10 in. powered speaker. Sounded great and was a lot of fun to use. Did it feel a little funny? Yes. Did any of the 300 people in attendance notice? No.Will I use a small tube amp(Egnate Tweaker-Line 6 M13) setup with the GR55 at my next gig at a huge Casino this weekend? Yes. Because every gig  has a different gear requirement and for me very often the GR55 and other modeling devices will fulfill that requirement. This stuff is not for everybody and certainly not for every gig. If you do the same material all the time with exactly the same players(that would bore me to death) then a Twin and an Echoplex is fine. I love having a large variety of sounds available most of the time. Last week I opened a Cancer Society benefit using someone elses 1970s' Marshall(properly biased and maintained) with a Boss Chorus and Boss Overdrive. Sounded like the harsh scritchey unpleasant tone I had dialed out of my old Marshall. No clean at all just one loud overly distorted tone. Almost unuseable by my standards but I plugged my cheap Epiphone Les Paul into it and got busy!!! Got tons of complements on my playing after the set LOL!!! After that I went over to my club gig down the street and played my M13-Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue and GR55 rig. At both places everyone was happy. I am glad guys buy and then get rid of a lot of this stuff. Makes shopping the used section at my local Guitar Center a bargain. Thankful for all the positive and negative offerings on this forum.I appreciate and consider everything I read on it. As you know Facebook Blows!!! Long Live The V-Guitar Forum!!!

drjoness2001

Well, I did sell my GR-55, but I didn't exactly go retro, I instead focused all my energies on the VG-99.

I frequently find myself trying to explain or defend what Roland does, but I certainly agree that the editing on the GR-55 is pretty off putting.

I can't believe Tony played a 6 hour gig. I'm a marathon runner, and I find doing anything for more than four hours, no matter how much you enjoy it, a true endurance test.

DF400

I guess I am really slow learner, but it took me many months before I really learned to appreciate the main thing the 55 offers - completeness.

I totally agree with the critical observations noted on previous posts: complex menus, a compromise of modeled tones that are perhaps not top-notch and COSM sounds that are arguably of lesser quality that previous units, and packed with patches that I could never find a reason to use. However, where I have found exceptional value is that with some tweaking I cover a huge sonic landscape with that little box. I cover lots of songs and can pull off most with convincing tones with just the 55 - from funk, to rock, to 80's covers, etc.

I still own a variety of amps, including the AxeFx, which is an outstanding unit; however, lugging around all my the cables, cabinets, controllers, and the programming complications has tapped into my playing time. For me there is a time and place for all of my gear - for gigging with simplicity, it's hard to beat the 55. As an early purchaser, I have had this thing for a long time - but I continue to find new ways to incorporate the sounds in my set songs - and am really enjoying it more each day. Three weeks into owning this unit, I was still trying to figure out how to set the sensitivity, nuance and the like - like I said, a slow learner. I have absolutely now regrets on keeping this unit.

I wasn't convinced initially, but have since found tremendous value -

J

musicman65

Davis,

I didn't see where you mentioned what type of amp you are using with the GR55. COSM through a guitar amp nearly always losses nuance and clarity. The COSM sound is high fidelity and guitar amps are lo-fi devices. I like to think of the GR55 as being siilar to a CD player and a CD player (or mp3 for you young pups) amplified through a guitar rig sounds awful no matter how you tweak it!

Of course, you may be using headphones, studio monitors, or powered PA speakers which are a much better solutions.

bd

captain nemo

i have similar issues, i sing and play pubs and clubs, with backing tracks up to now ive used various SEt ups with guitar including pods, boss boards and now valve amp and a handful of pedals,

i bought the GR55 so that i could broaden the sort of material i do from guitar based stuff and do something different, but im having real difficulty getting it to sound real through a PA,

dont get me wrong, i can sit with the headphones on and noodle along in amazement to what the GR55 can do, but actually getting the patches to sit right and be "real" is driving me up the wall, it more or less means that patches have to be programmed at gigs through the full PA and at a working volume level, otherwise i set an awesome patch up in the house and when i get to work its either dull, over processed or just taking the top of my head off.

i know how to EQ, i know how my pa works, thats not the issue, im just struggling to get it to sound as good as i know it can, you open it up and theres so many options and levels for this and that , that when combined do more than the sum of thir parts, i use gumtrees editor (awesome) but even then theres still a lot of stuff to tweak.

not so much disappointed wit the unit, more disappointed that im struggling to integrate it

PD FX

Quote from: captain nemo on December 07, 2012, 01:13:08 AM
i have similar issues, i sing and play pubs and clubs, with backing tracks up to now ive used various SEt ups with guitar including pods, boss boards and now valve amp and a handful of pedals,

i bought the GR55 so that i could broaden the sort of material i do from guitar based stuff and do something different, but im having real difficulty getting it to sound real through a PA,
Yes, it is hard, and I struggle with it too.
.. a small mixer with eq and reverb, using rather dry presets is what I use to make the GR55 manageable in a live situation.. but dynamics is something you can't really predict when you're programming with headphones on..
There's no general rule for fixing this, it depends on your music and playing style too much..
It is drag they didnt add "global" parameters in the GR55.. there was an overall eq and wettness control in the VG88 I owned (before it got stolen..), and that was definitely much much easier to handle!

mbenigni

"so many options and levels for this and that"

This is a HUGE issue.  There are effectively a million and one gain stages in any GR55 patch, and no metering to keep it all under control.  Half the time I think my monitors are clipping, then I trace it back through my mixer... my PC if that's in the chain... then ultimately find myself looking at the GR55 with a huge question mark hovering over my head.  I consider myself very familiar with the GR55 by now, but finding the best levels between each individual tone/effect module is basically a process of guesswork.  This drives me nuts.

musicman65

Captain,

You just brought up the #1 problem with managing any type of modeller. It took me years to get a good feel for how my patches translate when moving from my studio to live situations. If you aren't using a Real Time Analyzer and calibrated mic to set your PA's EQ, it wont be anywhere close to your headphonrs. No way, no how.

My PA faithfully reproduces anything I run through it....but only after RTA treatment for that venue. When I cant "shoot the room" during setup, our sound suffers. We then shoot the room after the venue closes and the next time we are there, recall it and its perfect (ok, really good....nothing is perfect)

Also, headphones are all imperfect as well....you tweak to perfection with headphone A and its too bassy in headphone B. I am using Behr 770's lately. I tested several by sweeping them with a signal generator and many had significant differences across the full spectrum. Dr. Dres, Bose, and other consumer brands arent Generally suitable due to "enhancements" in their response.

bd


Deus02

Quote from: musicman65 on December 06, 2012, 07:39:07 PM
Davis,

I didn't see where you mentioned what type of amp you are using with the GR55. COSM through a guitar amp nearly always losses nuance and clarity. The COSM sound is high fidelity and guitar amps are lo-fi devices. I like to think of the GR55 as being siilar to a CD player and a CD player (or mp3 for you young pups) amplified through a guitar rig sounds awful no matter how you tweak it!

Of course, you may be using headphones, studio monitors, or powered PA speakers which are a much better solutions.

bd

Since floor pods like the GR55 operate with a variety of sounds generally requiring a much wider frequency range, such a device plugged in to a limited frequency range guitar amp, to me anyway, is defeating the purpose in getting the most out of the unit.  I have never liked the sound used in that capacity. Aside from the PA, and since, for the most part, floor pods have pre-amp functions anyway, I gravitated to a small mixer along with a stereo power amp and a couple of speaker cabinets with much superior and more consistent sound, live or rehearsal.

Davis

Hey there

I was using headphones, good ones, through a headphone preamp.

UPDATE!!!

As a result of your responses I went back to the shop and RE BOUGHT the GR55. Yeh, I know, after all that....but I think this is an interesting turn of the thread dont you? Back went the GR20, and in came a newly boxed 55. When I am right I am right. When I am wrong, I am wrong.

I realized that my impressions were based on too brief a period for evaluation and I decided to learn to work with the imperfections to create perfection, if that makes sense.

Now, and update on my new impressions; I have spent many hours studying the editing menus and I now have a basic command of them. I have rigged up a pretty outstanding music design studio, and it is that which really spun me around. I use the Micro Korg synched to an RC300 looper drum midi out. I was content in the past to loop from that rig and add acoustic or electric guitars in the looper. I put the GR55 to a solid test and you are gonna laugh or raise your eyebrows, but it is blowing me away.  Each day I find nuanced ways to use the GR55. I also found a great way to attach the GK3 pickup, best way yet.

I bought some double sided hanging plasticene, its this stuff used to hang pictures which is basically like a few thin strips of plasticene. It holds well. I just tore off a little hunk of it and stretched it out until it made the pickup 1 mm from the string. Easy as hell, blows double sided tape outta da water. Very easy to adjust its height, just insert another little ball of the sticky plasticene. Installed the whole thing in record time, about 15 minutes. I have done my own installs for many years and this one was by far the easiest.

I dont have much more to say other than crow tastes good with jalapeno sauce on it.

I am not going to return it again. Giving it more time and listening to your input set me straight. My comments are still true, the editing is cumbersome, the presets are lame and suck up most of the dashboard and I have a new thing to bitch about....ROLAND>>>>please, next time you set up a USER bank...please, for the love of Mike, do not assign control settings to them. We use the user bank to initialize new sounds and its annoying to have to check the assigns for each one before our edit goes in. Yes, I will be initializing from now on, but that user bank control assign is annoying, prevents you from storing sounds fast withouit checking all the control assigns first.

My criticisms notwithstanding, there is far more good in this rig than bad. Much more.

Machh_2

did you see?

you started to make lemonade ...

[]´s

Machh_2

Litesnsirens

I guess a huge part of this really is familiarity when it comes to tweaking.  It's like learning a new language, at first it's a lot of stumbling and remembering, but eventually you just think in that language.
As far as COSM tones go I love them,  I play in 3 different rock bands and its happened on many occasion at rehearsal that the other guitar player in the band (happens in all 3) will say "f***" that's a killer tone".  Now, that said I usually play through Bose L1 PA systems which in my experience is the ultimate for modelling, but for quick small set ups I also have a Yamaha DXR10 powered monitor speaker and my guitar tones are great through that as well.

I will concede that to use this unit live it does take prep planning but I have found it worth the effort. And I do build my patches with my PA set up in my basement.  Tweak at lower volumes the patch Stn done until it sounds good cranked.  So I do most of the tweaking at lower volumes then just crank it for some final adjustments.  I find the EZ edit priceless for those final tweaks.

lespauled

I see the GR-55 as a tool.  It's a tool with many uses, but it takes time to get acquainted with its power.  I have a ton of frustrations with it, but the sounds that I get from it way outweigh the frustrations.  But when I first got it, the frustration level was enormous. 

Thankfully, i already went though this frustration with my Digitech GNX3.  I was completely lost at the beginning and almost gave up.  Thankfully, I hung with it and saw its true power and potential.  Going from frustration to awe with the GNX made me stick with the GR-55.  I'm nowhere near being completely comfortable with everything, but I'm already amazed with the GR-55.  I can only imagine how amazed I will be when I make any sound I want, whenever I want.



bobdullam

I am only a few weeks into the gr-55 myself. but I have been using the librarian to grab patches off of this site, and wow. I can't put the darn thing away. I think that one thing that will make the gr-55 more plug and play is grabbing some of the great sounds that people here have come up with. It seems that most of the people here are, or have been working musicians, that have to make stuff work for an audience, and a lot of the sounds reflect that. i.e. thanks to the librarian, and the stuff submitted here, I am having a blast. I got the latest slew of eric johnson sounds, what a hoot. I got strat sounds I've always wanted but couldn't afford. wow. and then there's the drop tuning thing. what fun to be able to do a cover tune live, and then in the middle of your solo sect. break into a drop down mega metal thing, and then back up again. what a hoot. and then the next tune is "spain" by chick corea, using a jazzbox sound w/ vibes. How can you not love that?
  Yes the factory sounds seem to lack a lot of practical sense. My guess is that they want to show off all the way-out-ness they can on the floor of a music store, or something. But this is probaly why they hired a gun like Alex Hutchings to show it off in a real-world-musical way. here it is:
  My suggestion(keep in mind I am a newbie), is to grab stuff from this site, get the sounds in the order you need them on the 55, and start workin' it. understanding and familiarity with all the possiblities will come with time, and nesseccity.

Davis

#24
Well, I am certain that you will all now consider me bipolar now, with what I am about to say. But in the interest of a real thread, with some legs on it and to reflect on things, I have to put in my final comments.

I took it back, again. The matter is settled.

I cannot put my finger on exactly why it went back. Why I felt compelled to return it within its return window, even though it did cost me a restocking fee this time around!

I think it just overwhelmed me. But thats not the whole story, playing guitar overwhelms me with its possibilities. No it was something else, the way that the COSM sounds were so perfect that they took over and i just stopped using the guitar out. But then when I used them, they somehow, were, soul less. And I think thats what hit me along the way, somehow it was just too easy to create good music. It felt like cheating. Within 6 minutes with the looper I had a recording quality song down with all parts, arranged. It was too good. It seemed to take all the challenge and satisfaction out of playing for me. And then I noted that the tracking was such that you couldnt play most instruments naturally and with nuance. Every sound was manufactured. You had to play that sound, not the instrument. With older gens, the 33 had its place but didnt take over. The COSM sounds took over and had no nuance. It was hard not to play the strat with effects from the GR, but all the time I did, I felt disconnected to the guitar. When I finally took the pickup off and was forced again to use my Ibby with my effects board, I was suddenly creating again. Nuanced passages, really working the neck, working the whammy bar, working the wah. Creating something new ouit of the sounds. There is not much new to create with the GR without a cerebral excursion. And for that I have Ableton Live 8, which is already too cerebral and is something I do for its own sake from time to time. And I leave those sessions without a sense of emotional expression.

The GR55 takes over, tis hard not to let it. It has this immense sound pallete, of artificial sounds, to my ear. They are all convincing, like the cello, the horns, etc...but convincing in the one tone they create. You cannot take that tone further, it is hemmed in by its algorithm. There was something missing, my music felt easy to create and emotionally dead. Its very very hard to put this into words and when i read them I wonder at my sanity, or at least my reason for playing. The 33 was like having a pet, that you could take out and do some jamming with or for a break from guitar sounds. But the 55, due to its complexity and range of options, took over. It was hard not to let it take over, it was like owning a Great Dane, Marmaduke ran the house when I had it. I left every session more and more let down, like the sounds had run the music and not the music the sounds. It felt too easy, like the Korg Kaosiilator, which just produces music with a few twitches of the finger.

When I took the pickup off, repacked it and returned it, along with the looper, I felt a sigh of relief. I was no longer at the mercy of menus, settings, tweaking and dictated sound palllettes that commanded my attention. I think the closest analogy was like smoking, it was addictive but somehow not good for me. And that wart of the GK3 pickup, it just bothered me, I had to carefully set the guitar down as not to destroy the thing. If I go MIDI guitar again it will be with the Godin Freeway or a MIDI Strat, and the 33.

Its very hard to articulate the sense of relief I had when I returned it. It was like returning to honest tone generation. Which is odd, because I have had many keyboard synths. But I didn depend on them as a lifeline to sound. Keyboard players are used to this, using a large sonic pallette. For me, as a guitarist, I just found myself dedazzled by it all and captivated by it in turn, and in turn, limited by it. I found many nuanced new sounds in my good old Ibby through the pedal board since I returned it, and now began to play music again. I feel while I had the GR I wasnt playing music, it was playing me.

So thats the end of my woeful tale. I will grab a used GR33 when it comes up again and one day a used GK enabled guitar without the nasty wart. I am as shocked as this as you are reading it, and just as confused. Something about real wood, real sounds and real simplicity makes you reach as a musician and when you dont have to reach as hard, you get seduced by the ease of sound creation, and then somehow, there is no feeling for me of accomplishment. The same comments apply to the looper, so its not the GR, its a general reflection on how technology warps our interaction with the world. As McLuhan said, the medium is the message. And never did I understand it clearer than through this process.

Weird eh?

On the suggestion side, the next GR66 needs to include;

a. midi in to control it from a keyboard
b. an onboard set of knobs to make on the fly tonal adjustments without menu surfing, an outboard box would be fine
c. a decent, easy to use and access arpeggiator, comparable to the Korg Micro
d. an onboard drum machine with 100 or so decent sounds and a trigger input to control the GR drums with an after market control surface
e. a better looper

Overall theme, easier to use and less cerebral programming.

Okay, done....and I will stick around because I still have a great love for guitar synthesis. This just did not cut it for me. For all the confused reasoning above.