Author Topic: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board  (Read 26655 times)

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Offline Elantric

RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« on: March 23, 2008, 06:22:55 PM »
Richard McClish at RMC writes>

Greetings all,

I have successfully completed my experiments with a
4-pole 6-channel subsonic filter and confirmed that
the problem with oversensitivity to tremolo bridge
movements is mostly a low-frequency modulation
phenomenon. With the filter, subsonic interference is
very significantly reduced and operation with piezos is
correspondingly improved for the problematic patches
in the VG-99. The other patches aren't audibly affected
and there doesn't seem to be any detrimental effect.
However, I believe in group experimentation to find out
the bottom line for a class of users.

I can build these for $$$
ea. plus shipping. These are retro-fit VG-99 jackboards
that replace the original part. Very easy to install. No
soldering involved. The modification is entirely
reversible. FYI, that will just cover the parts, not the
assembly labor or the engineering time, but it will help
to determine the true usefulness of the product.


The configuration is Butterworth for maximum flatness
in the passband and the filter frequencies are as follows :

string 1 & 2 -3dB @ 100Hz
string 3 & 4 -3dB @ 75 Hz
string 5 & 6 -3dB @ 50 Hz

This way, the effect on the fundamental frequency of the
open string is less than 1/2 dB, resulting in inaudible
effect on the musical portion of the guitar sound and
dive bombing can be performed without problems.

Hope this helps the ones that need it. Feel free to
contact me personally if interested.

Best regards,

RMC
http://www.rmcpickup.com/
contact Richard directly at :    info@rmcmusic.com




« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 04:18:48 PM by Elantric »

Offline Elantric

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2008, 08:46:21 AM »
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:29:24 -0700
<mos6507@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Your Les Paul has a tremolo? I was just wondering if
> there is any advantage
> in using this filter with fixed bridges and whether there
> is a bypass for
> those who have both piezo and GK instruments.

-=- Greetings,

THere is no need to turn a subsonic filter off since it
removes signals which are below the musical information.
If you don't believe me, make a recording of both (the
before and after sounds) and compare them. Upon listening,
make sure the amplitude (gain) remains the same. FYI, the
human ear can't compare frequency responses accurately if
the level is different.

Best regards,

RMC

Offline charles.monteiro

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2008, 10:06:51 AM »
sorry, this only helps if one wants to dive bomb ?

thanks

Offline Elantric

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2008, 04:50:50 PM »
I'll use it with an Acoustic with RMC PU - I'll report my findings after I install it.

Offline chamav

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2008, 12:27:23 AM »
I am also expecting one to be used with a nylon Godin. I will also report my experience.

Offline charles.monteiro

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2008, 07:23:32 AM »
Hi, about a week ago I decided that I wanted to try out the subsonic filter, I have 2 Godin's and a third coming, I sent out an email to the email address listed above but I have not received a response, checked my spam in case it got stuck there but did not find it.

Is the email listed above still the appropriate email to use ?

Offline Elantric

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2008, 09:35:09 AM »
RMC
http://www.rmcpickup.com/
contact  Richard McClish <info@rmcmusic.com>
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 07:24:06 PM by Elantric »

Offline kenc

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2008, 06:19:18 PM »
Update:

I exchanged a few emails with Richard from RMC regarding this.   

He has productized this modification and they are on backorder- next  batch is due in May 08.

The cost is $130  + shipping - for me it was $10 from CA to AZ

I have a Brian Moore 8.13 with RMC - it has a fixed bridge - I hear the issue the most with GR300 synth patches -- try patch 210 and tap on your bridge - sounds interesting  :P

/Soap Box On/

Its sad that we have to have this mod - Roland could have easily implemented this filter on the DSPs in the VG99 and made it the 1st stage of processing. Roland has known about this for years and OBVIOUSLY has their GK3 agenda.  We are lucky RMC is there to provide a professional solution.

/Soap Box Off/

UPDATE: Received and installed it - Added a detailed account on the end of this thread (page 2)

Ken
« Last Edit: May 30, 2008, 10:52:31 PM by kenc »

Offline Steve Mac

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2008, 10:22:42 PM »
How does one know if their Brian Moore has RMC??  Thanks,

Steve
Update:
I have a Brian Moore 8.13 with RMC - it has a fixed bridge - I hear the issue the most with GR300 synth patches -- try patch 210 and tap on your bridge - sounds interesting  :P

Offline Elantric

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 10:24:34 PM »
Pop the rear control cavity plate - look for the name on the PC board

Its either L.R Baggs, or RMC

BTW - The RMC VG-99 subsonic filter benefits ALL Piezo owners ( Fishman, Ghost, LR Baggs, RMC) and its not just for tremolos = it improves anomalies with GR-300 patches, and MIDI mistracking by removing the subsonic frequencies in the Piezo signal path.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 10:28:47 PM by sustainiac »

Offline ganderpe

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2008, 10:28:06 AM »
Hello,

is the subsonic-filter board replacing the original board (rmc) forr example in a godin steel sa or is it an addon?

I've got a VG-88 and think about upgrade to the VG-99. Because of all the "stories" i've read about the problems with piezo-pu's I've tested the GK-2B on my Godin to compare the sounds (optimized for rmc-pu)
and I came to the result, that I'd like to use the rmc furtheron, becaus some sound I made, sound better with the rmc.

Under the bachplate of my godin, there are 2 Boards (sandwich) one probably for the locigal thing like pushbuttons and switches on the godin, the other is just the hex amplivier for the 13-pin output.
Would be nice, if the subsonic-filterboard would be as a replacement for this...

Peter Gander
Fender Stratocaster Eric Johnson, GK-internal,  VG-99 fw1.04, FC-300

Offline Elantric

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2008, 12:30:42 PM »
The new VG-99 filter board actually goes inside the VG-99, and replaces the existing Roland VG-99 GK-13 Jack board.

Offline pookie613

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2008, 01:55:45 PM »
Does anyone here have any "hands-on" feedback on the mod, as it compares to the stock GK-3? 

I've recently added a GK-3 to my piezo guitar because the synth sounds were so adversely affected by the subsonic noise, and I didn't want to wait for the filter (it also let me run my GR-33 in parallel without getting a splitter box).

For the GR-33's MIDI, I'm convinced that the piezo system works better.  If the filtered piezos don't produce equal or better performance than the GK-3 thru the VG-99, I'm not sure if I'll go for the mod... (until more $$ flow my way)

I sure do appreciate RMC taking care of Roland's shortcomings though!

-Jim

Offline hupur

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2008, 10:28:43 PM »
I've recently added a GK-3 to my piezo guitar because the synth sounds were so adversely affected by the subsonic noise, and I didn't want to wait for the filter (it also let me run my GR-33 in parallel without getting a splitter box.

Thats the setup i want to get!I asked a few weeks ago if anyone considered doing it.are their any problems with the gk and piezo?seems to me with that combo you have limitless creative possibilities
G&L Legacy special,Switch Ultima EQ with gk3,Switch Innovo IV signature,Switch Innovo III Custom,Switch Wild IV signature ,Switch Stein IV signature,Switch Oscar ,Fender Blues Deville,Roland GP8,VG99,GR33,V-amp2,Virtualizer 1024,sc50,yorkville elite 500p'vox ad100vth,behringer bg412

Offline charles.monteiro

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2008, 11:26:42 AM »
Does anyone here have any "hands-on" feedback on the mod, as it compares to the stock GK-3? 

I've recently added a GK-3 to my piezo guitar because the synth sounds were so adversely affected by the subsonic noise, and I didn't want to wait for the filter (it also let me run my GR-33 in parallel without getting a splitter box).

For the GR-33's MIDI, I'm convinced that the piezo system works better.  If the filtered piezos don't produce equal or better performance than the GK-3 thru the VG-99, I'm not sure if I'll go for the mod... (until more $$ flow my way)

I sure do appreciate RMC taking care of Roland's shortcomings though!

-Jim

I ordered mine, but confused, the mod also helps with tracking ? i.e. it will help in the triggering of external sound modules i.e. whether soft synths via the usb interface or hardware via the midi outs ?

Offline pookie613

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 01:08:25 PM »
Thats the setup i want to get!I asked a few weeks ago if anyone considered doing it.are their any problems with the gk and piezo?seems to me with that combo you have limitless creative possibilities

Well, the equipment may have the possibilities, but my brain isn't quite so limitless...  ;D

The Piezo/GK setup works very well for me. The GK-3 pickup works better with the VG-99 and my piezo system works better with my GR-33.  I pluck off MIDI output from my GR-33, which isn't as good as the GR-33's internal Synth manipulations.  I think you'd have to use a piezo/AXON system to get optimal MIDI output, but I can't say from personal experience.

As I see it, the main disadvantage of using two pickups instead of one pickup + a fanout box is that you have two cables connected to your guitar.  It also means that you're probably using an external GK-3 (unless both systems were installed internally?), which some folks feel looks funky and creates problems when storing your guitar in a case.

I've never tried a fanout box configuration, so I don't know how the single pickup's controls operate when they're driving two devices.

With two pickups, it's very apparent-- you have two sets of pots and switches, and it's clear which set controls which device.  That makes it easy to adjust balances, fade one out, switch patches and fade back in, all from the guitar. 

In addition, you (may) have the option of mixing in the straight "acoustic" piezo sound, in addition to the guitar's native magnetic pickups.  That's a total of 4 separate "sounds". If you consider that the GR-33 and VG-99 have two layers to each patch, that's actually a total of 6 different sounds.  In practice, that's a little too much, and the mag pickups will probably get lost in there.  But if you like excess, it's something that you'll have to try just for the heck of it!

-Jim
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 06:19:38 AM by Elantric »

Offline hupur

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 05:21:34 PM »
Thanks for the info.I don't have a piezo rig yet,but it sounds like its what i need to get,unless roland comes out with a gk3 with 2 13 pin outputs
G&L Legacy special,Switch Ultima EQ with gk3,Switch Innovo IV signature,Switch Innovo III Custom,Switch Wild IV signature ,Switch Stein IV signature,Switch Oscar ,Fender Blues Deville,Roland GP8,VG99,GR33,V-amp2,Virtualizer 1024,sc50,yorkville elite 500p'vox ad100vth,behringer bg412

Offline dhaiphi

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2008, 02:21:50 PM »
I ordered mine

Have you received your RMC filter ?

Offline charles.monteiro

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2008, 07:54:50 AM »
Sorry, for late reply , been sick for about a week, no not yet,  I forget what the ETA was meant to be. I'll check again.

Offline chamav

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2008, 12:48:57 AM »
While still waiting to receive the filter, does anybody have any experience with it that could share?

Offline hugowester

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2008, 02:41:40 AM »
i´m trying to get one of these filters.as i live in spain,shipping costs and money transfers are quite expensive,so i would like to know if anyone has one already installed and their feedback about it.thanks hugo

Offline kenc

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2008, 10:51:06 PM »
Received my Subsonic filter board today as promised by RMC ( end of May).  Installed it in about 10 minutes and all is well.

Here is a summary of my experience : 

-  My background - lots of experience tinkering with electronics-- if you can install a hard drive in a pc you can do this mod

-- Board by RMC is well made, clean board - looks to have a few op amps, resistors and caps and a new 13 pin connector-- no installation instructions included- thats why I will detail it here- NOTE: if Richard of RMC sees this - I suggest adding a sheet of instructions :)

-  Lay VG99 knobs down on a towel-  remove 11 small screws to remove back panel, note each row of screws is different - I suggest laying them out in the same pattern that they will go back in on your workspace

- Gently pry off back cover -- and take a moment to marvel at the cool technology

- Locate small board that has the 13 pin connector mounted on it and remove the 2 screws (note there is a ground strap connected to the screw on the right side)

- Gently remove the board out of place - it is still conneced by a cable to the VG-99-  At this time I carefully removed the D-Beam's ribbon cable from  its connector on the main circuit assembly - it was in the way ( Note: the black fingers of the connector are on the top side and the yellow ones go on the bottom)

now comes the hardest part- remove the existing connector from the board- You will have to use a very small flat screwdriver to pry off the connector. This took a good 5 minutes- I worked it side to side.  The trick is to realize that part of the white connector stays attached to the board.  Before taking it off, Note which side the one brown wire goes on (its pin 1 on the Roland board and its marked- RMC board is not marked) To make sure I visually aligned the Roland board and figured out what was the correct side - good thing I had it on backwards  :o

-  attached the flat connector to the RMC board and position it back in place - it only fits one way

- attach the 2 mount screws and ground loop

-  re-install the D-Beam ribbon cable if you chose to get it put of the way ( black pins up) .Note : there is a piece of tape holding down the ribbon cable - I moved mine a bit

-  pop on the back cover - put in the 11 screws (remember not to mix the rows)

-  connect it up and try it out ......


--- Funny part - I hooked mine all up turned it on --- no sound  ???   - Then I realize that I dd not plug in the 13 pin cable to the VG --- DOH!!!

So I gave it a test run - sounds great - the acid test was go to patch 210 -- no more GR300 wacky artifacts- plays as expected.  Compared it to my GK2A and it responded the same.

Just wanted to share the experience in case anyone else was thinking about doing the Mod.

Cheers,

Ken

Offline charles.monteiro

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2008, 10:01:21 AM »
just got mine today, literally few minutes ago, I have built PCs before but must say that I am frightened :)

btw, I know that its totally un-related but should I bother flashing the VG-99 first and installing the new version of the editor. I guess that they are totally independent unless flashing the rom may be required to properly test the installation of the RMC filter.

thanks

Offline Elantric

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2008, 10:48:33 AM »
You should  have the latest VG-99  rev 1.04 firmware installed first - to get the most benefit for your piezo PU

Offline Elantric

Re: RMC V9SF-001 - VG-99 Internal Subsonic Filter board
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2008, 10:49:51 AM »
And - YOU MUST download use the latest version of the VG-99 Editor (not the one in the box) in order to use ANY of the patches we post here.

 

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