Looking for a Guitar Synth

Started by PeterPan8, October 30, 2016, 02:06:20 PM

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PeterPan8

Got the idea to write my questions here from Line6 forum.

I've been playing acoustic guitar (as a hobby) for the past 30 years, mostly classical. Then I got a cut-away acoustic jazz guitar which I've been playing for about 5 years. I play by myself, got no one around to play with (I live on an island!) Nowadays, I mostly play the cut-away steel strings jazz guitar.

Questions :

I'd like to "expand" my horizons by getting a guitar synthesizer. I've seen plenty of Roland GR-55 YouTube demos, and Fishman Triple Play. Just found out about James Tyler Variax.

I'm thinking about buying an electric guitar (another one? says my wife!)

My idea is to compose and play "new age" style pieces, mixed with soft classical jazz. And would love to play and mix with other instruments, piano, violins, voices, etc.  Probably with a looper.

I can read sheet music, but can't play any piano. I'm looking for "real" sounds, not "canned" ones, like brass, violin, piano, voices, etc.  If I play violin, I would like for the listener to think it's a real one (or close to). Same with piano, etc.

What should I get? A Fender G1 coupled with a Roland GR-55 synth? An electric guitar (which one?) with the Fishman Triple Play software?  Or something else.

I would also have to get an amplifier!  (Remember, I'm all acoustic!)

Thanks for any ideas and suggestions...

Brak(E)man

I'd go for a vg99 or a GP 10 with a GK 3 pickup on your guitar.
a laptop , Soft synths and a sampler and the USB audio + midi from VG or GP 10
And a software looper ,
You can perform live or record in a daw
Or both at the same time
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

admin

#2

stratrat

I'd say slap a GK-3 on your favourite guitar and use with a GR-55 and take it from there. For all its imperfections, the GR-55 is a good all-in-one (guitar modelling, guitar synth, amp modelling and FX), is fairly easy to use (as these things go) and is road-ready and robust for gigging. So IMO, it makes a pretty good "introduction" to these worlds.

Then if you want to expand at a later date, you can add in a VG-99 or GP-10 for extra guitar/amp/FX modelling and use the GR-55 just for synth voices.

AngeloEvs

If you don't need the COSM features of the GR55 and prefer the hardware option,  I would recommend thinking about the earlier GR models such as the GR30 and GR33.  There are sections for these in the forum, have a read through the various threads and you will see that for many, they have better PCM tones, tracking, etc.   Unlike the GR55, you can also access the PCM tones via midi.

I have a GR55  but still prefer my GR1 tones for Brass, Strings and piano but "which synth sound best" is a very subjective topic.   

ITL

My recommendation is the Fishman Triple Play(FTP)  I have the Godin Session Custom with ithe FTP built in, I added a Fishman Power Bridge with piezo.  This is a true three voice guitar, with Mag pickups for electric guitar, Piezo for acoustic and the Triple Play for Synth.  I would then recommend Mainstage 3 as your "synth plug-in" hosting app, which opens up the possibilities to any "real" instruments you want. I use Omnisphere 2, Keyscape and Komplete 10. I also have a couple of hardware synths, but the plug-ins IMHO are better quality. That being said, you will need an Apple Macbook of Macbook Pro to run  the plug-ins. For an amplifier, I would recommend a "Full Range Flat Response" FRFR  powered speaker system to give you the best dynamic range for your synths and virtual instruments.  By the way I also have the Roland GR55, which is ok, but I like the FTP better. 
LGXTSA, Godin Session Custom TriplePlay w/ Fishman Piezo, JTVariax59, Axe-FXII, Integra 7, Motif XS, VoiceLive 3

PeterPan8

Thanks for all your answers!
@ ITL: You give me lots to think about! Coming from my acoustic background, it seems to be quite a step to dive into. And I think I have many hours of surfin' the Web in front of me....

PeterPan8

I have checked most of the link you guys provided me, and the only thing I can say is, "I'm overwhelm!"  Simply said, I don't know where to start.  Here is a bit more of where I come from:

I'm all acoustic at the moment. I've been playing classical guitar as an amateur for the past +40 years. Played a bit of "jazzy" tunes for the past 5 years. I now want to expand my horizons by adding other sounds while still playing the guitar. I don't know how to play keyboards, and have no intention of going into that direction. My main instrument is the guitar.

I play by myself, not in a band (I'm my own band!)  I've read about GR-55 and FTP (and tons of others), and I want to start simple. Here's what I need to do (I think):

1) Buy an electric guitar, ideally including a guitar synth, such as FTP (Fishman Triple Play).
2) Buy a decent amplifier.
3) Get a portable PC computer (so I can bring my own "studio" with me, anywhere I go.)
4) Hook all of this together.... and have fun!

As for the electric guitar, I think the Godin Custom might do the trick, since it includes FTP, so no need to buy it separately. I'll save a bit of $$ from that purchase.

So, after I get the amp and hook the software on my computer, is there anything else I have to look for? Am I missing something?

Thanks for your help!

Elantric

#8
QuoteI'm all acoustic at the moment. I've been playing classical guitar as an amateur for the past +40 years. Played a bit of "jazzy" tunes for the past 5 years. I now want to expand my horizons by adding other sounds while still playing the guitar. I don't know how to play keyboards, and have no intention of going into that direction. My main instrument is the guitar.




find a gently used Godin Nylon string with GK 13 pin jack

Originally this was the Godin MultiAC , but the line has been expanded to incur many models with "SA' (Synth Access) in the product name

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4946.0


and I would get a gently used Roland GR-33,

https://reverb.com/item/2808677-roland-gr-33-effect-processor


because frankly for most players that model Roland GR guitar synth  tracks better than the GR-55 

The GR-55 tries to be too many things  and its a handful for your Classical background and goal for a good 1st exposure to guitar synths.

whippinpost91850

I agree with Elantric my GR33 tracks way cleaner them my GR55. And if you're looking for string and horn, non guitar parts the GR33 is a better choice

slooky

Are you going to be recording? IF you are my choice would be Reaper as the DAW.

stratrat

I stand by my earlier recommendation of a GR-55. I'm a fingerstyle nylon and electric pop/rock player with leanings to styles as diverse as classical, flamenco, reggae, ska and jazz. The GR works well with my piezo equipped nylons and steels as well as my GK and piezo equipped electrics. If it helps, I'm less interested in playing blazing fast guitar solos that sound like a trumpet/sax/synth than I am adding bass on my lower strings and keys on my trebles and/or layering pad type sounds to fill out the space and then orchestrating to get all of the important elements of the composition in a solo performance. Like a classical or jazz player, I view my trebles and my basses as different instruments anyway... To this end, the modelled bass sounds of the GR are perfect for the low end, with no delay and more expressiveness than synths can have. The tracking and sounds are also good enough that I can have funky percussive organs or clavs and make them work.

Not your main concern, the GR-55 is also robust enough to gig with (even with the potentially flaky 13-pin connectors). I've gigged with laptops and even rackmount PCs before and moved away again because I couldn't trust them with mission-critical stuff. The FTP is not robust enough or designed well enough. Also, being fingerstyle, I don't get as much benefit from the (otherwise wonderful) FTP pitch-to-MIDI conversion as a plectrum player does - and I am flat out of luck with the FTP as far as my piezo equipped guitars are concerned. If I was doing more scoring work, I'd probably get an FTP for one of my electrics, as then it would live in the studio and I could make the most of the power of the PC and the faster, more accurate conversion.

I'm also based in an out-of-the-way area (Cape Agulhas) in an out-of-the-way country (South Africa). One great advantage of Roland products is they tend to have representation everywhere - I gig a lot, so after-sales service and backup are important for me.

PeterPan8

@Elantric: Thanks for the advice. I already have nylon strings with my classical guitar, and steel with my "jazz" guitar. Though the idea of "gently" moving into synth may be interesting for a younger player, I'm in my 60's and don't want to go that way, since I want the "whole" thing now... at my age I'm not ready to wait & try :)

And going with a "slightly" used Godin and GR-33 would be too much trouble to find them from where I live (small mid-town on Vancouver Island). Our local music stores sell some used instruments, but nothing fancy. But they can get me "anything" brand new!

Moreover, I don't want to get too many tools. An electric guitar, a guitar synth (such as FTP), and a decent small amp, and other simple stuff (guitar case and stand, shoulder strap, etc.)

The GP-10 sounds nice, but from what I've heard, it doesn't seem as versatile as the GR-55 or FTP.

I guess the most important points for me is to be able to play "other" instruments as real as possible: violin, brass, voices (choir), bass, and maybe "simple" drums.

I still didn't figure out what would be the use of a "Fishman Power Bridge with piezo".

From what I read so far, I'm leaning more toward the Godin Session Custom with built-in FTP. With that Godin, no need to get a separate GK-3 and GR-55.  My only concern would be to get a new laptop computer (I could always  give my old one to my wife!  :))

@slooky: Sure, I'll probably try my hands at recording, but nothing fancy to post on YouTube. I'd rather have a looper to play all parts of my own one-man band.

Rhcole

Consider using an iPad instead of a laptop. It is a simple interface and the experience is more like using a synth module.
I have both, an iPad and a Win 7 laptop.
The iPad is just simpler to use.

Brak(E)man

If you don't mind hooking the GP10 up to a laptop , then you have all the modeling , fx , amps etc from the GP and midi to use soft synths , and software looper.
IMO the midi from GP10 works just fine for most things, I'd never consider a FTP
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

PeterPan8

From what I've heard so far on YouTube, the GP-10 is more a guitar effect machine than an "all-instruments" synth. Their brass sound is not great, no decent piano or violin sound. That's why I was looking for the FTP (Fishman Triple Play).

The iPad idea looks interesting. Just wondering how much CPU power I would need to run FTP.


Elantric

#16
QuoteFrom what I've heard so far on YouTube, the GP-10 is more a guitar effect machine than an "all-instruments" synth. Their brass sound is not great, no decent piano or violin sound. T
That's why we mentioned using GP-10 for Guitar to MIDI with a laptop running third party softsynths


QuoteThe iPad idea looks interesting. Just wondering how much CPU power I would need to run FTP.

No official Fishman Tripleplay apps run on the iPad

Using the FTP will require owning a Win/Mac laptop to setup and calibrate the string sensitivity with the official FTP App

But once you connect the FTP USB Receiver to the Apple USB Camera Adapter connected to an iPad, the iPad "sees" FTP as a a generic MIDI Input device to be used to trigger any IOS Soft Synth ( Apple Garageband , IK Sampletank, etc) that accepts MIDI Note on/ off messages

And remember FTP does not work with Nylon string instruments

Headless68

If you already own a laptop or PC worth checking out the Jam Origin midi guitar software - no special hardware required
Any guitar can be used
Tracking is very good
It's polyphonic
Full licence is about £75 - you can download and try it for free

PeterPan8

Geez, and I thought Fishman Triple Play was the only kid on the block. Now, I have to look into Jam Origin!

As a matter of fact, I'm quite impressed with both of these products. So, my choice is getting larger.

I still need an electric guitar (with amp), but now I have to check out between FTP and JO.

One thing I'd love to do is something like this:
Piano and background choir... or violins +choir... or piano + bass... or.... well, you know what I  mean!

What should I chose between FTP or JO?
If one over the other... why?

Thanks for any ideas!

gumtown

You can try out Jam Origin free demo download, all you need as an analog/digital audio  interface with your computer (hex pick not required).

I would choose FTP over Jam Origin, much more solid results with better performance and latency specs.

Then I would choose the GP-10 over the FTP for the added features of acoustic and electric modelling guitars and bass (zero latency from HRM type modelling).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Headless68

It is a subjective choice, and how you like to play will have a great effect on which system is right for you. I have owned just about all of them and end up with Jam Origin because it 'feels' better for me (inc over the FTP).
Have a play & see what you think
:-)

Brak(E)man

#21
Only to clarify
In order to use soft synths in a laptop
You don't need FTP or Jamorigin , unless you want either of them for a specific reason
GP10 works just fine with midi and as a soundcard , and you get audio and midi USB to the computer
and you get all  modeling , fx , amps etc from the GP and  , and you can use software looper
with the USB audio to and from the GP10


And as far as amps go, if you're going to use synths you need a full range amp.
Electric guitar usually sounds crap in a full range so you need 2 amps at least unless you want full stereo
That means 4 amps.
But using GP10 means you can use full range amps for both soft synths and guitar due to amp/ speaker emulation
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

PeterPan8

Just found out that Jam Origin doesn't split each guitar string by itself. It uses the whole sound (audio) coming out from the guitar.

On the other hand, FTP has a separate channel (pickup) per string, which gives the possibility to play a different instrument on each string. E.g. bass on the 6th string, piano on strings 1-2-3, and maybe add "choir" on the 5th string. Jam Origin can't do that apparently.

FTP can know which note you are playing, on which string. JO cannot do that. It wouldn't know if  G was played on the 4th string, 5th fret, or on the open G string. For me it's important, since I want to write music.

gumtown

The Jam Origin limitations are well known (around here), you can't get something from nothing.
The FTP has certain limitations too, as does all equipment.
I would refer back to the first 3 replies in this topic.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

#24
The characteristics you attribute to FTP (separate MIDI Channel per string ) apply equally to GP-10 when GP-10 is used as a Guitar to MIDI Interface with a laptop running soft synths

I typically use a 2011 MacBook Pro running Logic-X