What do you REALLY think about Boss FX?

Started by Rhcole, August 28, 2016, 06:30:33 PM

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Rhcole

Every once in awhile I get hired by some magazine to review guitar technology/synthesis/modeling products. It's great fun for me, and I've learned a few lessons along the way. One lesson I learned the hard way was to not be TOO eager to point out faults in a product from a company that advertises in the magazine. No words were ever spoken, but there went that gig...

My bad, my fault. What was I thinking?

By contrast, some time back I wrote a review of a Roland/Boss product and the editor said "I want you to be honest. After all, these are BOSS effects we are talking about!", implying his own less-than-stellar take on Boss FX.

It made me think: how good/bad are Boss FX, really? Personally, I think most of them are "just fine", although I have never heard a Boss overdrive or distortion effect that I thought was terrific. They seem pretty good at mod FX, but then again, their Leslie effect, especially in the GP-10, has caused me to consider an outboard substitute.

At the end of the day, my opinion is that they are... Moderate... I could "damn them with faint praise", but instead I'll just get out of the way and let you consider.

mchad


Great question. Boss is so ubiquitous in our guitar world that maybe we don't stop to consider the fundamental question.

Like all of you here I've owned my fair share over the years. Right now I have a CS3, a PS3, an EQ7, a Slicer and a GP10. I pretty much use the GP10 and the Slicer now and then. The effects in the GP10 are ok but as we know a bit hobbled. The GP10's golden goose for me is the alt tuning and after that the modelling.

I love the Boss pedal stomp switch. And they are smallish and tough. Ultimately though Boss stuff is okay but my attention usually gets diverted by more sophisticated stuff that does different things as well as the bread and butter sounds.

Let's see what they come up with on the 9th of Sept. Can Boss launch themselves into the Fractal space? Are they even interested?

aliensporebomb

What I see is that there's a longstanding bias by "Regular Joe Guitarists" who use vintage axes, tube amps and the like that "boutique" effects made in small quantities have to be better than Boss effects.

This bias seems to be perpetuated by mom and pop music stores who sell boutique guitar effects!

Never mind that many name players use Boss effects and to good effect.  It's common knowledge around town that Prince loved Boss effects pedals because they were easy to obtain, easy to use and got him the sounds he wanted. 

But I look onstage from time to time when local bands or touring acts visiting are around and nearly everyone has at least one piece of Boss gear.  Some of them have a veritable showroom of Boss gear. 

I tell you, I can do a lot of stuff with that VG-99.  At least as good as any boutique stuff you can name.


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

chrish

If you're talking boss and roland here's my take. GR-50 reverb-poor:  GS-6-distortion poor, reverb ok, delay ok, chorus-ok, DR-5 Yuck, VG8s1 reverb poor, delay ok, chorus poor, pitch shift excellent, cosm models ok, HRM good, SY-300 all good,  RC-300 never use em, VG-99 excellent, korg wavestation ad- ok to good, korg triton rack excellent. (both korg tone modules allow for analog input through fx.)

Chumly

#4
I think Boss effects are great if they get you want you want, and not great if they don't.  It's entirely up to the player, and it makes no difference what anyone else likes or doesn't.

I own / have owned products by: DigiTech, Korg, Roland, Yamaha, Line 6, Electrix, Casio, Behringer, Roland / Boss, etc. and the question of what I think about Boss FX has as much meaning as asking what I think about the horizon i.e. you cannot get any closer because the distance to it remains the same.

For example sometimes a harsh, buzzy, non-dynamic distortion may be what the doctor ordered, and sometimes a liquid, dynamic overdrive may be what's prescribed.

Too much is made of the tools of the trade, and not enough on the artful use of them. Oftentimes Vguitar.com emphasizes the tools of the trade over the artful use of them, and I find as I get older and gear becomes more plentiful, cheap and powerful, I fall into the seductive trap of gear acquisition more readily.

I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Rhcole

Responding to my own thread, I just picked up a Roland Cube Street EX, phenomenal amp.
But, the FX are marginal: the COSM amp models sound "fizzy" and have NO gain adjustments;
The chorus is a great liquid sound but has no depth control and thus is overwhelming;
The reverb is not very smooth and emulates a spring reverb digitally, which is slightly cheesy.

Don't get me wrong, the amp is an amazing accomplishment and is a terrific box. But, Roland seems to just miss the point sometimes. They cut corners where they shouldn't, and for my money could just leave some of this stuff out rather than put in a knob in that I will never turn.

Now_And_Then

Quote from: Chumly on August 28, 2016, 09:11:21 PM
I think Boss effects are great if they get you want you want, and not great if they don't
It can't be said better than that.

Quote from: Rhcole on August 30, 2016, 11:00:11 AM
But, Roland seems to just miss the point sometimes. They cut corners where they shouldn't, and for my money could just leave some of this stuff out rather than put in a knob in that I will never turn.

Featuritis. (Also spelled "feature-itis". Hard to decide which spelling is worse, really.) Marginal players are more abundant than professionals. And Roland wants that market too. A pro will ignore the junk, while a marginal player might find them enticing, thinking that he's getting more for his money. (And really, this added junk might be very handy and useful for a beginner.) But you already knew the reason, right?

It's my opinion that it was featuritis that sunk the VG-99 and, arguably, the entire 13-pin ship as a consequence: by putting in that useless-for-nearly-everyone V-Link, and the D-Beam, and the Ribbon Controller, and the guitar-to-midi converter, I think that they increased the price of the VG-99 to such a degree that they limited the appeal of the unit to a small segment of an already small market.

Not a terribly smart strategy.

alexmcginness

Quote from: aliensporebomb on August 28, 2016, 07:57:20 PM

I tell you, I can do a lot of stuff with that VG-99.  At least as good as any boutique stuff you can name.

Ditto. I modeled my Guyatone TO-2 into the 99 along with my American Standard strat.

Quote from: Now_And_Then on August 28, 2016, 07:57:20 PM
It's my opinion that it was featuritis that sunk the VG-99 and, arguably, the entire 13-pin ship as a consequence: by putting in that useless-for-nearly-everyone V-Link, and the D-Beam, and the Ribbon Controller, and the guitar-to-midi converter, I think that they increased the price of the VG-99 to such a degree that they limited the appeal of the unit to a small segment of an already small market.

I live on the D-Beam as its my whammy bar at least until the virtual Jeff comes along and the guitar to midi converter over USB into a MAC ( not a PC ) is just fine. Theres guys doing videos on Youtube and the only GT 2 Midi interface is the 99 and the tracking is great. I agree that 13 pin tech only appeals to a small segment of guitarists. Most of them dont want to dig in to a piece of deep kit and experiment. Too bad for them. You can give the masses the tools but you cant make them learn how to use them.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

chrish

Featuritis is good for people with gearatosis.

The vg99 and the korg triton rack (both recently purchased used) are so capable and deep with excellent quality features
that any sound is possible.
Why buy more stuff where the manufacturer cut corners and try to convince us with marketing hype to buy the latest greatest thing.

My best gear was designed  a decade ago and my best pitch to midi controller is still the gr-50.   

rolandvg99

Nothing bad with Boss FX at all. Problem is people buy a Metal Zone and think: "This will make my 10 watt amp sound like a Rectifier". Regular Joe buy some stuff without knowing what does what. Had a Boss shop display with all boxes mounted in the store where I used to work, and quite often costumers ended up with a different box from what they thought they needed. Especially when it came to OD/Dist stuff. Loads of metallic heads found out there was more to Zack Wylde's sound (pre MXR) than a Boss SD-1 and some chorus.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

whippinpost91850

When I had my store . I had some really good players ,with great ears that worked for me. Very often customers would walk in asking for something and leave with something else, because what they asked for would not do what they wanted

alexmcginness

Quote from: chrish on August 30, 2016, 12:44:07 PM
my best pitch to midi controller is still the gr-50.   

  Still have one in my studio. I use it for lots of stuff and my Axon for the basslines. Ive got a ton of sounds for the GR 50 and they work well for certain projects.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

rolandvg99

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on August 30, 2016, 01:03:10 PM
When I had my store . I had some really good players ,with great ears that worked for me. Very often customers would walk in asking for something and leave with something else, because what they asked for would not do what they wanted


Exactly!  Staff knowledge is gold, but sadly of less importance today in this modern, turbo charged, money driven world we all live in. I miss those days when you could walk into a store and learn something new and experience something dazzling.
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

whippinpost91850

Yep! Those were the days, That was a driving force in me selling my store and getting out. It's truly a sad state of affairs out there now :'(

Now_And_Then

Quote from: alexmcginness on August 30, 2016, 12:16:04 PM
I live on the D-Beam as its my whammy bar at least until the virtual Jeff comes along and the guitar to midi converter over USB into a MAC ( not a PC ) is just fine.

Well, let me ask you this: Which would you prefer?:

Situation A: You have a very expensive VG-99 with the D-Beam, Ribbon Controller, V-Link, and Guitar-to-Midi with a very limited market, or:

Situation B: You have a VG-99 without the D-Beam, Ribbon Controller, V-Link, and Guitar-to-Midi but with a significantly lower price, and a far larger group of potential buyers.


Elantric

#15
QuoteSituation B: You have a VG-99 without the D-Beam, Ribbon Controller, V-Link, and Guitar-to-Midi but with a significantly lower price, and a far larger group of potential buyers.

Too much mis information here -

In reality  VG-99 / VB-99 features  such as D-Beam, Ribbon Controller, V-Link did not contribute much $$ to the final cost
D- Beam (adds $15) it was on every Roland gear that cost over $600 between 2002 and 2009


Ribbon Controller (adds $15) - they use this on many Synths including those today

V-Link (Free) - its was built into Roland's 2005 era Guitar to MIDI code


chrish

I chose A. If i had chosen B, i would have purchased a gp-10 instead of a used vg99 which still cost more than a new gp-10. I like the dbeam and ribbon controller.

rolandvg99

Quote from: chrish on August 31, 2016, 10:13:36 AM
I chose A. If i had chosen B, i would have purchased a gp-10 instead of a used vg99 which still cost more than a new gp-10. I like the dbeam and ribbon controller.

Agreed. I don't use the D-Beam a lot, but the ribbon is brilliant for quick parameter changes. I use it mostly for quick pre gain changes. I still prefer the VG-99 form factor to a 100% floor based unit. The older I get the longer the distance to the floor. At least so it seems. ;)
To V or not to V: That is the question.

My little Soundcloud corner

Rhcole

Am I correct that Boss frequently changes the programming for its FX device to device? I thought that they would just use the stomp box pedals as the formulas and drop them into different configurations. But another thread complaining about the GP-10 Rotary, which is not very good, and my own experience with the SY-300 Rotary, which seems better, leads me to believe that you don't necessarily know which flavor of FX you are getting in a given box.

Another example is the Slow Gear in the SY-300, which performs and sounds different than in the VG-99.
That is certainly also the case with the COSM amps, which have been all over the map in the various devices I have owned.
I thought the amps were just getting consistently better over time, until my recent Cube Street EX, where they seem to have devolved.

Elantric

#19
For any given DSP FX, they have "good, better, best" versions of the DSP code and they attempt to fit what they can in specific Roland/ Device DSP allocated speed, memory for the specific Roland / Boss product
They have finite room - and often a few features that were in beta versions dont make the final production firmware - typically due to lack of time to tame the bugs or  to make more room for a critical function.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13.msg3073#msg3073


This post has attachments pics of features that did not make the final cut for the 2007 VG-99

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141.msg427#msg427

(Gretsch COSM Guitar)


(LP Custom Three Humbucker PU COSM Guitar)


Updated version of the old  Boss GT-3 AutoRiff Generator

aliensporebomb

It bums me out because there might concievably be a way to "revert" a VG-99 to that version of the software with those cool features.  Sigh.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

alexmcginness

Quote from: Now_And_Then on August 31, 2016, 09:50:08 AM


Well, let me ask you this: Which would you prefer?:

Situation A: You have a very expensive VG-99 with the D-Beam, Ribbon Controller, V-Link, and Guitar-to-Midi with a very limited market, or:

Situation B: You have a VG-99 without the D-Beam, Ribbon Controller, V-Link, and Guitar-to-Midi but with a significantly lower price, and a far larger group of potential buyers.

Obviously situation A. Im not concerned with what other people may or may not like or what they can or cant afford. I buy kit based on what it offers and the potential in it. Most guitarists dont care to learn and utilize guitar to midi, sysex, or take the time to alter their playing technique to accomodate this kind of tech. Thats fine by me. Their unwillingness to adapt and utilize those features is their loss and my gain.
   The VG 99 will keep me going for some time to come and since a few guitarists that bought the 99 have dumped them in favor of individual pedals or easier to use rack gear, there more than enough 99s on the used market at deeply discounted prices. I have a few spares and Im good for a while.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.