Dawn of a New Technology: Audio Holograms and the EHX Mel9

Started by Rhcole, April 03, 2016, 10:38:58 PM

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Rhcole

I'm so excited.

Hey, you old timers! Remember the first time you heard a Poly Synth? a Yamaha DX7? A sample player?

Well you are right in the middle of one of those moments today.

The new Electro-Harmonix Mel9 is a sample player that plays real Mellotron samples as a guitar effect. It is extracting the pitch and envelope information from the guitar, but what comes out is an actual Mellotron, not your guitar. It's like the audio equivalent of a hologram, superimposing an audio image of the Mellotron into the signal. EHX undoubtedly has a cool technical name for it.  The giveaway for me was the slowing vibrato as the pitch lowers on the guitar and then I thought about that "British Beatles" sounding saxophone. Mellotrons were British instruments based on the American Chamberlin. The tapes were recorded in England and featured the musicians of the day from the Sixties. Then I realized that the British Beatles sax sounds that way because EHX USED REAL MELLOTRON SAMPLES to get the sounds.

Great Googly-Moogly. It's not an effects pedal, it's a sample player.

The Mellotron makes perfect sense as a full-on product because Mellotrons didn't have a great deal of high frequency content. They used tapes that probably didn't go much above perhaps 8Khz, if even that. Perfect for a pedal using a new type of sampling technology with design limitations.

So, I wouldn't expect FM synthesis from this approach for a while. Those bright bell-like tones will be too hard to create. What I expect next is either a  "SYN9" or "Min9" featuring - you got it - Minimoog patches that will play polyphonically. They probably will create a portamento type effect on one or two patches, maybe an attack and release, who knows. A Minimoog will actually be harder to pull off because even those old subtractive synths could kick out some high frequency content. That will require higher quality samples and be more difficult.

But, EHX keeps getting better and better at this game.

Don't expect Bill Ruppert to say anything about this, Mike Matthews would personally whack him on the back of the head with a metal chair if he got into the middle of the conversation. When Bill reads this he'll smile because I'm sure I have some parts right and some parts wrong.

Also, the Mel9 is not coming out in a vacuum. The convergence of iPad type products, software emulations and other technologies are acquiring similar capabilities. The times, they are a-changin!

But in this moment and with this product, I tip my hat to Electro-Harmonix.

Great job, guys.


Now_And_Then

Quote from: Rhcole on April 03, 2016, 10:38:58 PM
...a Poly Synth? a Yamaha DX7? A sample player?

One of those things is profoundly different from the other two.

As for the rest, you've neglected to give us the references upon which your technical analysis is based. So it's very hard to know what to think about it...

GovernorSilver

#2
Quote from: Rhcole on April 03, 2016, 10:38:58 PM

The new Electro-Harmonix Mel9 is a sample player that plays real Mellotron samples as a guitar effect. It is extracting the pitch and envelope information from the guitar, but what comes out is an actual Mellotron, not your guitar.

Sorry, but Bill Ruppert clearly states in the official MEL9 intro video that the MEL9 does not use samples. 

You might be thinking of the Kemper Profiler.  We know that Bill made Kemper profiles of his VG-99 patches.  I don't think though that a Kemper "profile" is really a sample.  Perhaps Kemper owners can explain this more effectively.

Regarding the bell-like tones of FM synthesis, Bill already showed us how to do that with a ring mod and other pedals - it's one of his Effectology videos on Youtube.  I'm sure they incorporated his techniques into the design of the KEYS9.  I'd be curious as to what is it you're looking for from FM synthesis that isn't already satisfied by the KEYS9, given that you're just looking for "bell-like" sounds.

For Minimoog sounds, the EHX Microsynth is available.  Bill also showed us how to use it. ;)

whippinpost91850


Rhcole

It's true, these are not samples and the Mel9 is not a sample player as we've come to know them. They are not time-based slices, meaning a sample runs for a given length. It is something new, and that's why it's exciting. But, when describing the new, it can be useful to use familiar technology to help describe it. That's why I used another familiar analogy- holograms - as a descriptor as well. A hologram contains the entire image in each section of the picture. If you break a piece off, you still see the entire image in each fragment. It's like the audio image of the Mellotron overlays the guitar. You can run your pick up and down the strings and the noise will be "Mellotrony".

But here's my point on this: If EHX wanted to make a pedal that could reproduce John Kennedy's Berlin speech in his voice, I'll bet they could do it. You could play it up and down the neck, it would change pitch and it would respond to your playing dynamics. It might not be easy but this is where they are headed.

Pre-order your very own JFK-9 today!

szilard

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on April 04, 2016, 09:12:44 AM
Kemper is not sampling or playing a sample

The basis for the Kemper seems to be convolution, but they are doing more than that. The mathematics for convolution is fairly old; back to Fourier and probably older. I used it in image processing when I was in grad school in the mid-80s. What is fairly new is applying it in real time. It is basically multiplying two signals together. In synthesis it is sometimes referred to as cross synthesis.

See the section How does the profiling technique compare to classic modeling?
http://www.kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang/en/p/163/do/Kemper_Profiling_Amplifier___FAQ.html

GovernorSilver

Quote from: Rhcole on April 04, 2016, 09:28:28 AM
But here's my point on this: If EHX wanted to make a pedal that could reproduce John Kennedy's Berlin speech in his voice, I'll bet they could do it. You could play it up and down the neck, it would change pitch and it would respond to your playing dynamics.

I do agree they could do something close to that.  Korg did something similar with the Miku Stomp -  you trigger an anime girl's voice with your guitar (no hex pickup needed), albeit with reportedly questionable tracking.

Rhcole

You're right, the Miku Stomp is exactly in the ballpark of what I'm describing. Terrible tracking and bizarre to boot, but the same idea. EHX is refining this and turning it into a real usable technology.

GovernorSilver

#8
Also you could enter custom lyrics into Miku Stomp, albeit via a bizarre UI (for her to sing in English, you must enter the lyrics as Romaji, then she'll sing in English with a Japanese accent). 

https://itunes.apple.com/jp/app/lyrics-for-miku-stomp/id927422952?l=en&mt=8


admin

#9
QuoteAlso you could enter custom lyrics into Miku Stomp, albeit via a bizarre UI (for her to sing in English, you must enter the lyrics as Romaji, then she'll sing in English with a Japanese accent). 

http://www.vocaloid.com/en/lineup/vocaloid4/cyberdiva.html

CYBERDIVA
VOCALOID4 Library CYBER DIVA
It is the first Yamaha genuine library which provides "native" English woman singing voice.
With clear speech, smooth pronounciation, and powerful tone, CYBER DIVA can cover almost all genres of the music you can imagine.
There is a strong advantage that it has a good compatibility with one of VOCALOID4 specialized feature, "Growl".
You can express any type of voice, such as "Rough Tone", hoarse and husky voice, and "Harsh Tone", violently deafening voice, that enhances the expression of Rocks, Souls, Blues and many other.
If you setup the library with "User Dictionary for CYBER DIVA" included in the package, you can receive more natural English pronounciation and other enhancement of expressions.
VOCALOID4 Editor or VOCALOID4 Editor for Cubase is necessary to use this product.

Rhcole

Here comes...

Singing into a microphone and having Adele's voice coming out, even if you are a man! In perfect pitch!
Having a library of anything and everything that you can play from your guitar!

I hope people don't forget to learn how to play and sing...

GovernorSilver

Quote from: GovernorSilver on April 04, 2016, 12:48:07 PM
Also you could enter custom lyrics into Miku Stomp, albeit via a bizarre UI (for her to sing in English, you must enter the lyrics as Romaji, then she'll sing in English with a Japanese accent). 

https://itunes.apple.com/jp/app/lyrics-for-miku-stomp/id927422952?l=en&mt=8



I love having two brains.  I can post, then the other "me" can edit it. 

*Although this iPhone app can be used with an English system, MIKU STOMP's vocal functionality only supports Japanese. While it does not support input of English lyrics, it does support input of "romaji" - the method of using the Latin alphabet to express Japanese. When entering Japanese directly, "hiragana" and "katakana" input are supported.

GovernorSilver

#12
Quote from: Rhcole on April 04, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
Here comes...

Singing into a microphone and having Adele's voice coming out, even if you are a man! In perfect pitch!
Having a library of anything and everything that you can play from your guitar!

I hope people don't forget to learn how to play and sing...

We do have one local band (DC area) that uses a virtual vocalist.  The vocals are triggered by some sort of sequencer.  The lineup is drummer, keyboardist, and guitarist.  The keyboardist has a mic plugged into a vocal transformer app or device so when she talks, she sound like James Earl Jones in seduction mode.  But she doesn't actually sing into the mic during song performances, which led me to believe the vocals are sequenced.  Whenever I look at her, she's playing keyboards and/or MIDI controller of some sort - something other than singing or talking.

Nobody complains about their use of sequencers, invisible vocalist, etc. because they put on a killer live show.  A drummer visibly pounding away at stuff and a guitarist playing a Les Paul loudly can cover up a lot of things.


Now_And_Then

Quote from: Rhcole on April 04, 2016, 01:08:35 PM
Here comes...

Singing into a microphone and having GLADoS's voice coming out...

I'll buy it!

chrish

Yes i can see that the transition over to the machine world will go smoothly. Why didn't i take the blue pill :-) ?

Chumly

We have always been machines, free will is an illusion; model-dependant realism is the "reality" of the situation.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

chrish

Or, reality is simply reality, it's how we percieve it (including the machines we design to measure it) that is the illusion.

gumtown

or the entire universe is just an alien  computer simulation... but I'm just going to live for the moment and enjoy it.. and not think too much about things that make my head hurt thinking too much into things...

so what is this new magical box.. wizardry??  voodoo?? gold from carrots??  Creativity and innovation is still required to drive it ... right??
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Autana

Quote from: gumtown on April 05, 2016, 12:18:35 AM
so what is this new magical box.. wizardry??  voodoo?? gold from carrots??  Creativity and innovation is still required to drive it ... right??

Exactly! I agree totally...and (hope my 8 bit English make sense) I think no one can deny that creativity, music love, and enthusiasm for innovation is the fuel behind minds like Mike Matthews and others illuminated in the musical industry's. And correct me if wrong but I'm noticing we are running a little behind the days where could read in a promotional of a new and "innovative" musical gear, phrases like "your imagination is the limit" "A launcher tool for your creativity"
Now almost everything from the big industry names is more focused on "You'll sound like x" "Become the center of the fame" "You'll look like a pro"
I think no matter if you have in your hands the most groundbreaking invention, or a cheesy device claiming to be the century innovation. The important thing is how the mom in you can use that amazing new kitchen assistant to cook cool recipes, and bring smiles in diners face...or puajh.
It is surprising the number of musicians who buy an outstanding piece of gear, then throw it away in the attic caused they cant get "instant magic"(GR-55 comes to mind). Ok, if I buy it, I can use as I damn want to, but I think many should try "Guitar Hero" first before a VG-99.
You can even play with an orchestra of robots and still be yourself, so when I look at these two videos, I thank the universe we can still get our hands the baton to conduct the orchestra of our creativity, either with a CryBaby or a EHMel9.

In the first video robots even overcome and improve the "human" performer, especially the string bend at 02:34  :D  in the second Pat Metheny gives meaning to the reign of creativity and intuition over the machine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/national/health-science/a-robot-and-human-musical-performance/2015/01/21/f77801de-a191-11e4-91fc-7dff95a14458_video.html

! No longer available
GR-55, GP-10, GI-20, Godin xtSA, GodinNylon MultiAc, Giannini classical, 3 GK-3'd gtrs, Cube 80XL, Primova GKFX-21 (x2)

Fear just pulls you out of being true to music, which is coming from a place of love. Love is the opposite of fear. I stay away from anything fear-related.
- Tal Wilkenfeld -

chrish

Quote from: gumtown on April 05, 2016, 12:18:35 AM
or the entire universe is just an alien  computer simulation... but I'm just going to live for the moment and enjoy it.. and not think too much about things that make my head hurt thinking too much into things...


I read a book by a physicist (boy did my head hurt) who proposed the idea that humans are not capable of living in the moment. By the time we percieve that moment, that moment has already passed. It takes time for our brains to recieve the  nerve input from our eyes, ears, etc and process that data. It's our built in latency. It's so fast that the illusion is that we are living in the moment or so the theory goes. I've found that when my head hurts while contemplating new ideas, I may be learning.  I guess the point is with all this goofing around is...The reality is that, geeze i don't know. But i'd like to demo this pedal sometime in the future.

Rhcole

Back on topic here. So what do you tech guys think we should call this new technology? It isn't sampling like we are used to, although that is the closest analogy. I don't know if EHX patented this given that Korg has a more primitive verson in the Miku stomp. By the way, there is a slight latency in the Mel9, not bad but you can hear it. That's another reason that Mellotron samples work well, because they mostly have slower attack transients.

If EHX doesn't have patents, this new technology will mushroom out in a few years as computer software if not as guitar pedals.

Also, think about a future guitar synth that allows you to select partials just like synths such as the Ensoniq did in the 80's.  That is no stretch of the imagination at all.


Elantric

QuoteAlso, think about a future guitar synth that allows you to select partials just like synths such as the Ensoniq did in the 80's.

You are aware the GR-55 has a palette of over 910 PCM wave sample "snippets" which can be auditioned and used for sound creation

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3060.0


Comprehensive list of Tones can be found in the attached spreadsheet.

Courtesy of Stueym, summary sheets can be found below.
PCM Tonelist for Roland GR-55   
   
Tone #   Tone Name
001   St.Piano 1
002   St.Piano 2
003   St.Piano 3
004   St.Piano 4
005   St.Piano 5
006   Brite Piano
007   Stage Piano
008   Honky Tonk
009   LoFi Piano
010   Piano 1
011   Piano 1 w
012   European Pf
013   Piano 2
014   Piano 2 w
015   Honky-tonk
016   Honky-tonk w
017   Pop Piano 1
018   Pop Piano 2
019   Pop Piano 3
020   Piano 3
021   Piano 3 w
022   Stage EP 1
023   Stage EP 2
024   Stage EP Trm
025   Tremolo EP 1
026   E. Piano 1
027   E. Piano 2
028   E. Piano 3
029   E. Piano 4
030   E. Piano 5
031   E. Piano 6
032   Dyno EP
033   Dyno EP Trm
034   Tremolo EP 2
035   Back2the60s
036   Tine EP
037   SA EP 1
038   SA EP 2
039   Psy EP
040   Wurly EP
041   Wurly EP Trm
042   Curly Wurly
043   Super Wurly
044   E. Piano 7
045   St. Soft EP
046   Wurly
047   EP Legend 1
048   EP Belle
049   80's EP
050   FM EP 1
051   FM EP 2
052   Sinus EP
053   Spirit Tines
054   EP Legend 2
055   E. Piano 8
056   Detuned EP
057   St. FM EP
058   EP Legend 3
059   EP Phase
060   Rock Organ 1
061   Rock Organ 2
062   Rock Organ 3
063   Rock Organ 4
064   Rock Organ 5
065   RotaryOrgan1
066   RotaryOrgan2
067   Perc.Organ 1
068   Perc.Organ 2
069   Perc.Organ 3
070   E.Organ 1
071   E.Organ 2
072   E.Organ 3
073   E.Organ 4
074   E.Organ 5
075   E.Organ 6
076   E.Organ 7
077   70's E.Org 1
078   70's E.Org 2
079   Ana Organ 1
080   Ana Organ 2
081   Ana Organ 3
082   Ana Organ 4
083   Ana Organ 5
084   Organ 1
085   Trem. Organ
086   60's Organ
087   70's E.Organ
088   Organ 2
089   Chorus Organ
090   Perc.Organ 4
091   Organ 3
092   Grand Pipes
093   Church Org 1
094   Church Org 2
095   Church Org 3
096   Puff Organ
097   Reed Organ
098   Harpsichord1
099   Harpsichord2
100   Coupled Hps
101   Harpsi w
102   Harpsi o
103   Clav 1
104   Pulse Clav 1
105   Sweepin Clav 1
106   Analog Clav
107   Biting Clav
108   Pulse Clv St
109   Clav 2
110   Pulse Clav 2
111   Celesta
112   AccordionIt2
113   Musette
114   Vodkakordion
115   Accordion Fr
116   Accordion It
117   Bandoneon
118   Harmonica 1
119   Harmonica 2
120   FM Sparkles
121   Fm Syn Bell
122   FM Heaven
123   Dreaming Bel
124   Analog Bell
125   Music Box 1
126   Music Bells
127   Kalimbells
128   Bell 1
129   Bell 2
130   Icy Keys
131   Carillon 1
132   Tower Bell
133   Tubularbell2
134   Bell Ring
135   Music Box 2
136   TubularBells
137   Church Bell
138   Carillon 2
139   Crystal
140   Tinkle Bell
141   Toy Box
142   Vibraphone 1
143   VibraphoneTr
144   Tremolo Vib
145   Marimba 1
146   Marimba 2
147   Steel Drums 1
148   Xylophone 1
149   Xylophone 2
150   Ethno Keys
151   Soft StlDrm
152   Jazz Vib
153   BsMarimba 1
154   BsMarimba 2
155   Sine Mallet
156   Glockenspeil
157   Vibraphone 2
158   Vibraphone w
159   Marimba 2
160   Marimba w
161   Xylophone 3
162   SteelDrums 2
163   Nylon Gtr 1
164   Nylon Gtr 2
165   Nylon Gtr 3
166   Nylon Gtr 4
167   Wet Nyln Gtr
168   Ukulele 1
169   Folk Gtr 1
170   Folk Gtr 2
171   Folk Gtr 3
172   Latin Gtr
173   Nylon Gtr 5
174   Ukulele 2
175   Nylon Gtr 5o
176   Nylon Gtr 6
177   Steel-str.Gt
178   12-str. Gtr
179   Steel + Body
180   Gt FretNoise
181   Clean Gtr 1
182   Clean Gtr 2
183   Clean Gtr 3
184   JazzGuitar 1
185   Pick E.Gtr
186   FunkGuitar 1
187   Wet E.Gtr
188   PedalSteel 1
189   JazzGuitar 2
190   PedalSteel 2
191   Clean Guitar
192   Chorus Gtr
193   Mid Tone Gtr
194   Muted Guitar
195   Funk Pop
196   FunkGuitar 2
197   Jazz Man
198   Gt Cut Noise
199   OverdriveGt1
200   Dist Gtr 1
201   Dist Gtr 2
202   Dist Gtr 3
203   OverdriveGtr2
204   Guitar Pinch
205   DistortionGt
206   Gt Feedback1
207   Dist Rtm Gtr
208   Gt Harmonics
209   Gt Feedback2
210   AcousticBs 1
211   AcousticBs 2
212   AcousticBs 3
213   String Slap
214   FingeredBs 1
215   FingeredBs 2
216   FingeredBs 3
217   Pick Bass
218   FretlessBs 1
219   FretlessBs 2
220   Finger Slap2
221   Return2Base!
222   FingeredBs 4
223   Finger Slap
224   Picked Bass
225   FretlessBs 3
226   Slap Bass 1
227   Slap Bass 2
228   MG Bass 1
229   MG Bass 2
230   MG Bass 3
231   Modular Bs 1
232   Modular Bs 2
233   PWM Bass 1
234   PWM Bass 2
235   Big Mini
236   Fat Analog
237   Spike Bass
238   SH Bass
239   Intrusive BS
240   Synth Bass 1
241   Synth Bass 2
242   Synth Bass 3
243   Synth Bass 4
244   Synth Bass 5
245   Synth Bass 6
246   Synth Bass 7
247   Synth Bass 8
248   Synth Bass 9
249   Synth Bass10
250   Synth Bass11
251   Synth Bass12
252   Reso Bass 1
253   Reso Bass 2
254   Reso Bass 3
255   Reso Bass 4
256   Reso Bass 5
257   Reso Bass 6
258   Reso Bass 7
259   Reso Bass 8
260   Acid Bass 1
261   Reso Bass 2
262   Reso Bass 3
263   Alpha Bass 1
264   TB Bass 1
265   TB Bass 2
266   Alpha Bass 2
267   Alpha ResoBs
268   Nu Saw Bass
269   Nu RnB SawBs
270   Storm Bass
271   Detuned Bass
272   Gashed Bass
273   Hi-Energy Bs
274   Pedal Bass 1
275   Monster Bass
276   JunoSqr Bs 1
277   JunoSqr Bs 2
278   101 Bass
279   106 Bass 1
280   106 Bass 2
281   Compu Bass 1
282   Compu Bass 2
283   Triangle Bs
284   Muffled Bass
285   Garage Bass
286   TransistorBs
287   Fazee Bass
288   TB Bass 3
289   TB Bass 4
290   Acid Bass 4
291   Acid Bass 5
292   Acid Bass 6
293   Brite Bass
294   Pedal Bass 2
295   Saw Bass
296   Reso Bass 9
297   Reso Bass 10
298   Sub Bass
299   Ramp Bass
300   Fat Bass 1
301   Fat Bass 2
302   Fat Bass 3
303   Flat Bass
304   Electro Rubb
305   80s Bass
306   Synth Bass13
307   SynthBass101
308   Acid Bass 7
309   Clav Bass
310   Hammer Bass
311   Synth Bass14
312   SynSlap Bass
313   Rubber Bass
314   Attack Pulse
315   Santur 1
316   Santur 2
317   Aerial Harp
318   LostParadise
319   Sitar 1
320   Indian Frtls
321   Sitar Pad
322   Santur 3
323   Mandolin
324   Harp
325   Yang Qin
326   Sitar 2
327   Sitar 3
328   Banjo
329   Shamisen
330   Koto
331   Taisho Koto
332   Kalimba
333   Violin 1
334   Bright Vln
335   Bright VC
336   Violin 2
337   Slow Violin
338   Viola
339   Cello
340   Contrabass
341   Fiddle
342   Mood Strings
343   Strings 1
344   Strings 2
345   Strings 3
346   Strings 4
347   Stage Str 1
348   Stage Str 2
349   Pop Str
350   Marc. Str
351   StringsStacc
352   Pizz 1
353   Pizz 2
354   TapeStrings1
355   TapeStrings2
356   Hybrid Str
357   Strings 5
358   Hall Strings
359   Tremolo Str
360   PizzicatoStr
361   Strings 6
362   Oct Strings
363   Slow Strings
364   Orc. Unison 1
365   Orc. Unison 2
366   Full Orc
367   Orchestra
368   Trumpet 1
369   Fr. Horn
370   Trumpet 2
371   Dark Trumpet
372   Trombone 1
373   Trombone 2
374   Bright Tb
375   Tuba
376   MuteTrumpet1
377   MuteTrumpet2
378   French Horn
379   Brass 1
380   Brass 2
381   Brass 3
382   Brass 4
383   F. Horn Sect
384   Brass 5
385   Brass 6
386   Bassoon 1
387   Oboe
388   English Horn
389   Bassoon 2
390   Clarinet
391   Bagpipe
392   Shanai
393   Flute 1
394   Pan Flute 1
395   Pan Pipes 1
396   Shakuhachi 1
397   Pan Pipes 2
398   Piccolo
399   Flute 2
400   Pan Flute 2
401   Bottle Blow
402   Shakuhachi 2
403   Breath Noise
404   F1.Key Click
405   Soprano Sax1
406   BreathyTenor
407   Tenor Sax 1
408   Soprano Sax2
409   Alto Sax
410   Tenor Sax 2
411   Baritone Sax
412   Ocarina 1
413   Recorder
414   Whistle
415   Ocarina 2
416   Dreamvox 1
417   Dreamvox 2
418   Choir Pad
419   Angels Choir
420   Aerial Choir
421   Doo Pad
422   Humming 1
423   Humming 2
424   Gospel Hum
425   Vox Pad 1
426   Vox Pad 2
427   80s Vox
428   SynVox 1
429   SynVox 2
430   Mini Vox
431   Chipmunk
432   Sample Opera
433   Sad Ceremony
434   5th Voice
435   Sop Vox
436   Choir Aahs
437   Chorus Aahs
438   Voice Oohs
439   Humming 3
440   SynVox 3
441   Analog Voice
442   Space Voice
443   Itopia
444   Jazz Scat 1
445   Jazz Scat 2
446   Saw Lead 1
447   Saw Lead 2
448   Saw Lead 3
449   Saw Lead 4
450   Saw Lead 5
451   Saw Lead 6
452   Saw Lead 7
453   Saw Lead 8
454   Saw Lead 9
455   GR300 Lead 1
456   GR300 Lead 2
457   Classic GR
458   Bright GR
459   Fat GR Lead
460   MODified Ld
461   Syn Lead 1
462   Syn Lead 2
463   Syn Lead 3
464   Syn Lead 4
465   Syn Lead 5
466   Syn Lead 6
467   Syn Lead 7
468   Pro Fat Ld 1
469   JupiterLead1
470   JupiterLead2
471   Porta Lead
472   Classic Lead
473   On Air
474   Pro Fat Ld 2
475   Wormy Lead
476   Waspy Lead
477   Brite ResoLd
478   Brass Lead
479   Legato Tkno
480   Follow Me
481   Octa Juice
482   Juicy Jupe
483   Octa Saw
484   Vintager 1
485   Vintager 2
486   Sync Lead
487   Octa Sync
488   Leading Sync
489   A Leader
490   Hot Coffee
491   Hot Sync
492   Syncro Lead
493   Space Solo
494   Squareheads
495   Mod Lead
496   Alpha Spit
497   Air Lead
498   Pulstar Lead
499   Therasaw
500   Warmy Lead
501   ResoSawLead
502   Soft Reso Ld
503   Reso Lead 1
504   Reso Lead 2
505   Reso Lead 3
506   Reso Lead 4
507   Reso Lead 5
508   Juicy Lead
509   DC Triangle
510   Soft Lead 1
511   Soft Lead 2
512   Soft Lead 3
513   Soft Lead 4
514   Soft Lead 5
515   Soft Lead 6
516   Soft Lead 7
517   Soft Lead 8
518   Soft Lead 9
519   Soft Lead 10
520   Tri Lead
521   Pulse Lead 1
522   Pulse Lead 2
523   Simple Tri
524   Simple Sine
525   Whistle Ld 1
526   Whistle Ld 2
527   Square Pipe
528   CosmicDrops1
529   Spooky Lead
530   Pure Lead
531   303 NRG
532   Round SQR
533   Brite SQR
534   Square SAW
535   Simple SQR
536   Sqr Lead
537   Atk Lead
538   Octa Square
539   CS Lead
540   Mini Growl
541   Hoover Again
542   Tranceformer
543   Juno SQR
544   Pulse Lead 3
545   Pulse Lead 4
546   Ramp Lead 1
547   Ramp Lead 2
548   Saw Lead 10
549   Sine Lead 1
550   Sine Lead 2
551   Dance Saws1
552   Resoform
553   Dance Saws2
554   Square Wave
555   MG Square
556   2600 Sine
557   Saw Wave
558   OB2 Saw
559   Doctor Solo
560   Natural Lead
561   Syn. Calliope
562   Chiffer Lead
563   Charang
564   Wire Lead
565   Solo Vox
566   5th Saw Wave
567   Bass & Lead
568   Delayed Lead
569   80s Brass 1
570   80s Brass 2
571   80s Brass 3
572   80s Brass 4
573   80s Brass 5
574   80s Brass 6
575   80s Brass 7
576   80s Brass 8
577   Soft SynBrs1
578   Warm SynBrs
579   Brite SynBrs
580   Express Brs
581   EuroExpress1
582   JP Brass 1
583   Juno Brass
584   Ox Brass
585   Reso Brass
586   Wide SynBrs
587   Soft SynBrs2
588   JP Brass 2
589   106 Brass
590   Octa Brass
591   Poly Brass 1
592   Dual Saw Brs
593   Jump Poly
594   Reso Key 1
595   EuroExpress2
596   Ox Synth
597   VintageBrs 1
598   VintageBrs 2
599   VintageBrs 3
600   VintageBrs 4
601   Poly Brass 2
602   Synth Brass1
603   JP Brass
604   Oct SynBrass
605   Jump Brass
606   Synth Brass2
607   SynBrass sfz
608   Velo Brass
609   Heaven Pad 1
610   Heaven Pad 2
611   Dreamheaven
612   Oct Heaven
613   Soft Pad 1
614   Soft Pad 2
615   Soft Pad 3
616   Soft Pad 4
617   Soft Pad 5
618   Soft Pad 6
619   Soft Pad 7
620   Soft Pad 8
621   Soft Pad 9
622   Soft Pad 10
623   VintageStr 1
624   VintageStr 2
625   VintageStr 3
626   VintageStr 4
627   VintageStr 5
628   VintageStr 6
629   VintageStr 7
630   JX Strings
631   JP Strings 1
632   JP Strings 2
633   106 Strings
634   PWM Str 1
635   PWM Str 2
636   Fading Str
637   ParadisePad
638   80s Strings
639   Stringship
640   Airy Pad
641   Neo RS-202
642   Sawtooth Str
643   Pulse Pad
644   Hollow Pad 1
645   WarmHeaven 1
646   WarmHeaven 2
647   Heaven Pad 3
648   Heaven Pad 4
649   FineWinePad1
650   FineWinePad2
651   5th Pad 1
652   5th Pad 2
653   Nu Epic Pad
654   Angelis Pad
655   TrnsSweepPad
656   Giant Sweep
657   Voyager
658   Digital Pad
659   NuSoundtrack
660   Xadecimal
661   Strobe Pad
662   BUBBLE 2
663   BUBBLE 3
664   Soft PWM Pad
665   Org Pad
666   Hollow Pad 2
667   SavannaPad 1
668   SavannaPad 2
669   SavannaPad 3
670   PWM Str 3
671   PWM Pad 2
672   Str Machine
673   Reso Pad
674   BPF Pad
675   Sweep Pad 2
676   Sweep Pad 3
677   Sweep Pad 4
678   Scoop Pad 1
679   Scoop Pad 2
680   Brite Wine
681   Wine Pad
682   Syn. Strings1
683   Syn. Strings3
684   Syn. Strings2
685   Warm Pad
686   Sine Pad
687   Bowed Glass
688   Metal Pad
689   Halo Pad
690   Sweep Pad
691   Soundtrack
692   Star Theme
693   D50 Fantasy
694   D50 Bell
695   Dreambell
696   Dreaming Box
697   Air Key 1
698   Sweet Keys
699   Soft Bell
700   Air Key 2
701   Stacc Heaven
702   DigitalDream
703   Analog Dream
704   Harp Pad
705   Org Bell
706   Fantasia
707   Ice Rain
708   Atmosphere
709   Brightness
710   Dream Trance
711   Dream Saws
712   Dream Pulse
713   Trance Synth
714   Trancy
715   Trance Keys
716   Trance Saws
717   Auto Trance1
718   Super Saws 1
719   Analog Saws
720   Uni-G
721   Digitaless
722   Bustranza
723   Super Saws 2
724   Poly Synth 1
725   Poly Synth 2
726   Poly Synth 3
727   Poly Synth 4
728   Poly Synth 5
729   Poly Synth 6
730   Juno Saw Key
731   Saw Key 1
732   Saw Key 2
733   Waspy Synth
734   Vintage Key
735   Ju-D Fifths
736   Reso Key 2
737   Fat Synth
738   DOC Stack
739   2 Saws
740   Hi Saw Band
741   Brite Synth
742   PWM Pad 1
743   RAVtune
744   Heaven Key
745   Pipe Key
746   Shroomy
747   AnalogDays 1
748   Sync Key
749   Detune Ramp
750   Reso Saw
751   EuroExpress3
752   Sweep Saw
753   Poly Synth 7
754   Syn Mallet
755   Enigmatic
756   Planetz
757   Shimmer Pad
758   Sci-Fi
759   ResoSweep Dn
760   Jet Noise
761   Brandish
762   909 Fx
763   Zap
764   Polysweep Nz
765   Passing By
766   Lazer Points
767   CosmicDrops2
768   Crystal Fx
769   Crystal Ice
770   Mad Noise
771   Robot Sci-Fi
772   Computer 1
773   Computer 2
774   S&H Noise
775   S&H Ramp
776   S&H PWM
777   S&H Saw 1
778   S&H Saw 2
779   Electrostar
780   Alpha Said
781   FX Ramp
782   Bubble 1
783   Goblin
784   Echo Drops
785   Echo Bell
786   Analog Seq
787   Seq Pop
788   Periscope
789   Major 7
790   Juno-D Maj7
791   Sweet House
792   Detune Saws
793   Melodic Drum
794   Detune Seq
795   SequencedSaw
796   Echo Pan
797   PanninFormnt
798   Fairy's Song
799   Atmospherics
800   StrobeBell 1
801   StrobeBell 2
802   Flying Pad 1
803   Flying Pad 2
804   Flying Pad 3
805   Flying Pad 4
806   Flying Pad 5
807   Sine Magic
808   Pulsatron
809   Motion Bass
810   Trance Splt
811   Rythmic 5th
812   Rythmic 1
813   Rythmic 2
814   Mega Sync 1
815   StrobeBell 3
816   Strobe 1
817   Strobe 2
818   Strobe 3
819   Strobe 4
820   LFO Saw
821   Keep Going
822   Keep Running
823   Electrons
824   BriskVortex
825   LFO Vox
826   Pulsasaw
827   Arposphere
828   Mega Sync 2
829   Compusonic 1
830   Compusonic 2
831   Compusonic 3
832   Compusonic 4
833   Compusonic 5
834   AnalogDays 2
835   Groove 007
836   Juno Pop
837   Auto Trance2
838   In Da Groove
839   80s Beat
840   Cheezy Movie
841   Mod Chord
842   Housechord
843   OrchestraHit
844   Bass Hit
845   6th Hit
846   Euro Hit
847   Scratch 1
848   Seashore
849   Rain
850   Thunder
851   Wind
852   Stream
853   Bubble
854   Bird 1
855   Dog
856   Horse Gallop
857   Bird 2
858   Telephone 1
859   Telephone 2
860   DoorCreaking
861   Door
862   Scratch 2
863   Wind Chimes
864   Helicopter
865   Car Engine
866   Car Stop
867   Car Pass
868   Car Crash
869   Siren
870   Train
871   Jetplane
872   Starship
873   Burst Noise
874   Applause
875   Laughing
876   Screaming
877   Punch
878   Heart Beat
879   Footsteps
880   Gun Shot
881   Machine Gun
882   Laser Gun
883   Explosion
884   Ride Cymbal
885   Timpani
886   Agogo
887   Woodblock
888   Castanets
889   Taiko
890   Concert BD
891   Melo. Tom 1
892   Melo. Tom 2
893   Synth Drum
894   808 Tom
895   Elec Perc
896   Reverse Cymb
897   Standard 1
898   Standard 2
899   Standard 3
900   Rock Kit
901   Jazz Kit
902   Brush Kit
903   Machine Kit
904   R&B T-Analog
905   R&B Mini Kit
906   HipHop Kit
907   R&B Kit
908   Dance Kit 1
909   Dance Kit 2
910   Dance Kit 3

GovernorSilver

#22
Quote from: Rhcole on April 05, 2016, 09:44:44 AM
Back on topic here. So what do you tech guys think we should call this new technology? It isn't sampling like we are used to, although that is the closest analogy.

On another forum, somebody speculated EHX is using waveguide synthesis in the MEL9.  If so, what you called a "sample" would actually be a "waveguide":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_waveguide_synthesis

However since we don't really know what technology EHX really used, we can't really call it a "waveguide" player either. 

We know Bill has a Kemper Profiler and has made profiles of his VG-99 synth sounds.  But again, we don't know for sure if there is a relationship to the MEL9, so we can't call it a "profile player" either.

Maybe by the time I get a MEL9 and start recording with it, somebody will have coined the appropriate terminology.

Now_And_Then

 I'm still of the opinion that what EHX is doing in the Mel9 is their version of Roland's Harmonic Restructure Modelling combined with specific multi-fx algorithms for each specific sound in the box.

We've all heard what Bill Ruppert can do when combining fairly typical effects: you'd never have imagined that some of those sounds could be gotten with the equipment that he's using to get them. That's the whole point of his "Effectology" series, right?

It is easy for me to imagine that Bill sat down with a list of the Mellotron sounds which he wanted to recreate, and recreated them with fairly simply equipment: pitch shifter, delay, reverb, HPF and LPF, EQ, maybe some granular synthesis... and then whatever specific settings he used were programmed into a DSP chip.

"Barely-tweakable effects" were where digital multifx began. To put several non-tweakable algorithms in a chip is a capability that was mastered decades ago. Recall all of those multifx boxes such as some ART MultiVerbs, or the Digitech XP series pedals.

  Someone else, whose efforts are very overlooked here but who had done really astounding things, is AlienSporeBomb. Who'd think, listening to some of his sounds, that those sounds were in the VG-99 at all?

So my point here is some people have a tendency, to ascribe to new technology, things that may not require new technology at all.

(I have no dog in this fight, believe me. At this point I like EHX's stuff far, far better than anything that Roland has done since the VG/VB-99 was released and have no reason to give priority to Roland. I simply think that EHX is doing something similar to HRM but combined with some very clever use of multifx algorithms.)



Bill Ruppert