GR-55 - Soulman - Trying duplicate this sound

Started by tillthen, December 02, 2014, 01:19:14 PM

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tillthen

The chanking of the rythm guitar is what I trying to reproduce with this patch.  Is this the closest that i should expect to get?

tillthen

this is the sound sample....look all the way down at the bottom of this message box for the url


replicand

I spend a bit of time "reverse-enginnering" sounds while programming synthesizers. Those exact techniques will not work for this example, but the theory is the same. Now, this internet computer I'm using doesn't have a DAW so the MIDI file didn't open play in my media player; so I'll walk you through how I would recreate that sound. I'm kinda long-winded, so I hope you have some time on your hands.

So when normally reverse-enginnering sounds to create on synths, it's EXTREMELY helpful to load a spectrum analyzer app on your phone or tablet computer. You can see the frequency distribution, which speeds the process of wave choices and filter settings. The catch is that the sound you want to recreate shouldn't compete with any other existing sounds. Or stated another way, the sound you want to reproduce should exist in isolation as much as possible. Thus, in a dense dance mix for example, you'd have to do some radical EQ cutting and beat slicing to isolate the sound you want. But it's totally worth it.

Once you have your sound isolated: run it through the SpecAn, which will give you fundamentals and harmonics. The shape and distribution of harmonics across the spectrum reveal what type of waveforms you should use. There's thousands of websites explain it better than I could, so I won't go into detail here. Though that's not really important in this case since we already know that guitar has a combination of saw / square waves. But how to get that sound? This is how I would approach it:

(1) If trying to perform any guitar part from a keyboard into a DAW, the notes never start at the same time, since downstrokes / upstrokes guitar players use means that there is the *ever* slightest delays between them, especially depending on the direction of the stroke. This may seems obvious, but "playing idiomatically" is always necessary to keep in mind when programming.

(2) Though the song is French Motown, it's still Motown. Motown's most prolific period was 1959 to...I'd say 1975. Nearly all Motown players were recruited from jazz bands at that time. So, what kind of gear would a guitar player in 1963 be using in Motown Studios? Don't know. *I* would be using an ES-175 (which the GR-55 doesn't emulate, but would choose whatever's closest) into a 1x12" tube amp (a Polytone would be my first choice for jazz, but again unavailable in the GR 55); though this track has quite a bit of reverb, so the next logical choice would be a Fender Twin (which the GR-55 does) at high gain but with a 1x12" cabinet.

(3) I can't really discern what pickup is being used here. Maybe bridge with tone rolled off? Prolly not neck because it's too bright. Not really "clucky" enough to be bridge and neck together. *i* would go with tone rolled-off bridge.

I hope this gives you some jumping-off points to create your sound.

Elantric

#3
I find value using third party isolation tools  - like RiffStation,
http://www.riffstation.com/



or on iPhone/iPad - Yamaha THR Session
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/apps/thr_session/

Then use a good Real Time Analyzer and your ears

many folks here swear by HarBal Spectrum Analysis Software - tool
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=54.msg22140#msg22140
http://www.har-bal.com/





Mac users might want to consider this option:
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/programs/VoxSPANOSX/


Others are


Best Free Audio Analyzer?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1198.msg6184#msg6184


Quotethis is the sound sample....look all the way down at the bottom of this message box for the url

But listening to the track - Id probably start with a COSM Tele or P90 pickup into a Clean Twin with some slap back delay around 150ms

replicand

I use the FaberAcoustic SignalScope, personal preference here.

whippinpost91850

 or on iPhone/iPad - Yamaha THR Session
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/apps/thr_session/

THR Session appears to only work on iPhone and iPod

Elantric

QuoteTHR Session appears to only work on iPhone and iPod

I have it running on my Ipad with IOS7.1.2 in "2X" view mode.
Read how to install iphone apps on ipad
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/how-to-run-iphone-apps-on-an-ipad-and-why-youd-want-to



tillthen

Wow.. good stuff.. it got deep in a heartbeat!  I will get to work

vtgearhead

The rhythm guitar on that track sounds very Steve Cropper-like to me (a bit hard to tell, since it's overlaid or double-tracked).  That implies a telecaster through an older Fender amp - probably closed back (Bandmaster, Showman, etc.).  Not sure how close you can get on a GR-55, but would love to hear what you come up with! 

tillthen

 :-[   :-\   Sorry but this aint great, but It will have to do for the present.  I gotta focus more on the rest of the set, and actually playing.  I couldn't nail down the wave analysers and how to jump from that back into the actual tweeks in the Gr55.  It's a learning curve I imagine.  Right now a lot of staring and not really sure of what I looking at. but check out my lame attempt, and suggest any easy changes.  The action on my taylor allows me to make the work


Btw... Im playing an acoustic guitar

Elantric

#10
Quote
Btw... Im playing an acoustic guitar

What type 13 pin pickup?


post a picture of your guitar?


Some folks use Acoustic with Piezo Ghost / RMC pickups  - but forget the hype and what ever your Roland GR-55 dealer told you.
Realize the physical type of guitar and string type you are using ( Steel, Bronze, Nylon)  always plays a large role in sound you will get using any Roland COSM Modeler.

If you are using a Nylon String Acoustic with Piezo 13 pin system
 



, you will experience a very difficult battle attempting to nail the Stax/Volt Steve Cropper RHYTHM Guitar with slap back delay tones I hear on guitar track on  the "BEN L'ONCLE SOUL -SOULMAN" song you linked using any modeling system.





By contrast if you used a Roland GC-1 Strat - you would find a much easier time - this is what Roland Designed the GR-55 to work with. Accommodating Piezo Guitars is always an afterthought, and Acoustic Guitars with Nylon String?  - you will have to accept a few compromises in the resulting sound.


tillthen


Elantric


tillthen

At this point I think,  I'm in the ballpark if enough,  for good technique to prevail... 

I've never been picky about  guitar tones till... I got the gr-55.   I got it for the other instruments,  but I spend most of my time tweaking my guitar... lol.

you know the say... "  if it ain't broke,  break it"  lol