Hi from Tronical headquarters in Germany

Started by Tronical Bens, February 19, 2016, 04:14:20 AM

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Tronical Bens

Very excited and happy to be part of this Forum.
Thanks for letting me join.

I am officially employed with Tronical.
So if there is anything you want to talk about just let me know  ;D

I am a passionate recording & mix engineer. I love music to death.
I hope to learn from your guys knowledge and share mine with you.

regards
Bens
You Rock - We Tune

Elantric


Tronical Bens

You Rock - We Tune

Elantric


simon t

Welcome from me too Bens. ;)

Great to see you here!!

MCK

Welcome onboard. We'll try not to bombard you with many questions in one go and scare you off...  :) Right guys?

First off. I have a gorgeous Gibson Dark Fire which I love dearly. Since it has now been so many years since the last release, is there any chance for the Chameleon tone shaping software to be released to public domain so we can take it from where Gibson/Tronical left and keep maintaining it to take care of bugs etc? I almost know what the answer will be but thought I should still ask. Thanks for looking into this.

All the best.

Chumly

I have three Min-ETune Gibson SG's so this may be of interest as I find the tuners sometimes get a bit confused (for want of a better word).
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Tronical Bens

You Rock - We Tune

Tronical Bens

Quote from: MCK on February 22, 2016, 05:58:16 PM
Welcome onboard. We'll try not to bombard you with many questions in one go and scare you off...  :) Right guys?

First off. I have a gorgeous Gibson Dark Fire which I love dearly. Since it has now been so many years since the last release, is there any chance for the Chameleon tone shaping software to be released to public domain so we can take it from where Gibson/Tronical left and keep maintaining it to take care of bugs etc? I almost know what the answer will be but thought I should still ask. Thanks for looking into this.

All the best.

Sorry for getting back to you so late... I took some days off. It's just great to be without a computer sometimes ;)

The Chameleon tone shaping is a technology that works digitally in connection to analog parts. A CPU with chameleon software has to be connected with the pick ups and/or piezo pick up bridge for mixing the different signals before the output and then implement the digital preset for sound shaping the DI-sum-signal of the analog parts before the output.
Chameleon tone was developed and designed by Tronical for Gibson.
We cannot use the technology as our device TronicalTune Plus has no connection to the guitar hardware except the headstock.

I can understand that you had the idea of the industry being able to use the technology for sound shaping like plug ins for DAW etc. Also guitar manufacturers could implement a CPU for sound shaping, but I think Gibson owns the copyright.
Chameleon tone is not only a digital sound modelling algorythm but needs connection to the pick ups of a guitar.

You Rock - We Tune

Tronical Bens

Quote from: Chumly on February 22, 2016, 09:29:48 PM
I have three Min-ETune Gibson SG's so this may be of interest as I find the tuners sometimes get a bit confused (for want of a better word).

You are right...
Min-ETune was okay but we noticed that we had to catch up and give the user more options for adjustments and setup.
Also Min-ETune sometimes for no obvious reason didn't work good with some guitars. So we improved hardware and software for G-Force/TronicalTune Plus.

Min-ETune is similar to the old TronicalTune. G-Force is similar to TronicalTune Plus.
These two devices look alike but are way different.

I am trying hard not to advertise anything here guys. Please stop me if I am going too far.


You Rock - We Tune

Chumly

#10
How do I take advantantage of your catching up and giving the user more options for adjustments and setup? Also how can I tell what version of the hardware and firmware I have?

Oh and don't you worry about advertising / going too far, your input is welcome!
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Tronical Bens

Quote from: Chumly on February 25, 2016, 08:41:30 AM
How do I take advantantage of your catching up and giving the user more options for adjustments and setup? Also how can I tell what version of the hardware and firmware I have?

Oh and don't you worry about advertising / going too far, your input is welcome!

Actually the easiest way to check what hardware you have is by looking at the cover.
TronicalTune PLUS has a white + on the cover. TronicalTune doesn't.

For checking the software with TT please make sure TT is turned off. Hit the ON-button twice to access the tuning selection. Now you can press and hold the UP-button. The MENU-LED should be lit in white now. You need to navigate to the white G and press ENTER in order to let TT show you the firmware version.

For checking the software with TT+ please make sure that TT+ is off. Hit the ON-Button three times to access the function menu. If the capital E-LED is lit white please press ENTER to access the white menu bank. Please navigate left to the white G and press ENTER to let TT+ show you the firmware version.

We did offer upgrade PCBs to existing customers for the price of 99USD but the period has expired and the only way to upgrade now is to get a new electronic box with battery and charger included.
The old TT-RoboHeads will work with the new electronics though...
You Rock - We Tune

Chumly

I am obliged, however I am not sure how I am going to be able to catch up and have more options for adjustments and setup by following your input except to get a new electronic box with battery and charger which seems to be a very cost inefficient method indeed (I understand this has been discussed before by others in this  and perhaps other threads as well).
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

MCK

Hi Bens,

So glad to hear you were able to get some time off and remain disconnected as well. This is wonderful.

I think you may have misunderstood my question. Let me try to re-phrase.

Back in 2010 or so we had the last release of software for our Dark Fire that allowed amongst other things for us to design analog tone combinations by way of manipulating the little relays inside our guitars which controlled the pickup configurations (aka Chameleon Tone). This version of the software was great but had some other issues (ie relay latching was disabled etc). Since then there has been no more releases and I suspect given the EOL nature of the product and evolution of the Gibson / Tronical investment towards MinETune type headstock only kits I am thinking there will be no more releases either.

My question was whether there might be a way to obtain the source code for the PC/Mac chameleon tone control software so that we as a community of enthusiasts can see if we can take care of ongoing maintenance etc.

Thanks for looking into this. Best regards

Quote from: Tronical Bens on February 25, 2016, 02:45:45 AM
Sorry for getting back to you so late... I took some days off. It's just great to be without a computer sometimes ;)

The Chameleon tone shaping is a technology that works digitally in connection to analog parts. A CPU with chameleon software has to be connected with the pick ups and/or piezo pick up bridge for mixing the different signals before the output and then implement the digital preset for sound shaping the DI-sum-signal of the analog parts before the output.
Chameleon tone was developed and designed by Tronical for Gibson.
We cannot use the technology as our device TronicalTune Plus has no connection to the guitar hardware except the headstock.

I can understand that you had the idea of the industry being able to use the technology for sound shaping like plug ins for DAW etc. Also guitar manufacturers could implement a CPU for sound shaping, but I think Gibson owns the copyright.
Chameleon tone is not only a digital sound modelling algorythm but needs connection to the pick ups of a guitar.

Elantric

#14
Here's  the 2008 Gibson Dark Fire thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1371.msg7232#msg7232
Dark Fire Features list at Gibson states Chameleon Tone Technology is "built in"
http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Dark-Fire/Features.aspx


But the fact is the official Dark Fire Firmware to enable existing Chameleon Tone EQ (an internal EQ IC) was never officially released by Gibson.

Functional Chameleon Tone  materialized, later on the 2009 Gibson Dusk Tiger.
( actually a Sanyo IC designed for car stereo EQ





http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Dusk-Tiger/Next-Generation.aspx


Most Dark Fire owners use Dusk Tiger firmware, but often experience a new set of hurdles

MCK

Thanks Elantric. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

I did use Dusk Tiger code for a while but the relay latching issue and the different control workflow eventually caused me to go back to Dark Fire code. I'd love to get my hands on the Dusk Tiger code and with the help of others more clever than myself, manage it going forward for the benefit of all Dark Fire/Dusk Tiger owners.

So the question for Tronical & Gibson I suppose is what it might take to make this happen.

Tronical Bens

Quote from: Chumly on February 27, 2016, 08:35:32 AM
I am obliged, however I am not sure how I am going to be able to catch up and have more options for adjustments and setup by following your input except to get a new electronic box with battery and charger which seems to be a very cost inefficient method indeed (I understand this has been discussed before by others in this  and perhaps other threads as well).

Yes, you are right... getting a new electronic box is the only way for an upgrade.
You Rock - We Tune

Tronical Bens

Quote from: MCK on February 28, 2016, 12:14:45 PM
Hi Bens,

So glad to hear you were able to get some time off and remain disconnected as well. This is wonderful.

I think you may have misunderstood my question. Let me try to re-phrase.

Back in 2010 or so we had the last release of software for our Dark Fire that allowed amongst other things for us to design analog tone combinations by way of manipulating the little relays inside our guitars which controlled the pickup configurations (aka Chameleon Tone). This version of the software was great but had some other issues (ie relay latching was disabled etc). Since then there has been no more releases and I suspect given the EOL nature of the product and evolution of the Gibson / Tronical investment towards MinETune type headstock only kits I am thinking there will be no more releases either.

My question was whether there might be a way to obtain the source code for the PC/Mac chameleon tone control software so that we as a community of enthusiasts can see if we can take care of ongoing maintenance etc.

Thanks for looking into this. Best regards

i will pass this questiopn on to the software department and see what they say.
I will get back to you later then...
You Rock - We Tune

whippinpost91850

I haven't used my SG w/minEtunes fore almost a year because of slow tuning.. I missed the upgrade box when it was on sale. As of now I'm not planning on the full upgrade because of the price

Autana

Welcome Bens!  nice to have you here in VGF,  I have been highly attracted to TT system. Virtual alternate tunings on the GR-55, GP-10 and VG-99 are an awesome resource, but a kinda obsession sprang up after having a DarkFire in my hands and experience the effect of playing alternate tunings in the quiet of my room, unplugged, without the actual normal physical tuning harassing my ear. I'll delve into the RG TT tuners subject, course starting right here in the forum, but any pointing to sources of information will be highly welcome. All the best.
GR-55, GP-10, GI-20, Godin xtSA, GodinNylon MultiAc, Giannini classical, 3 GK-3'd gtrs, Cube 80XL, Primova GKFX-21 (x2)

Fear just pulls you out of being true to music, which is coming from a place of love. Love is the opposite of fear. I stay away from anything fear-related.
- Tal Wilkenfeld -

Elantric


Autana

GR-55, GP-10, GI-20, Godin xtSA, GodinNylon MultiAc, Giannini classical, 3 GK-3'd gtrs, Cube 80XL, Primova GKFX-21 (x2)

Fear just pulls you out of being true to music, which is coming from a place of love. Love is the opposite of fear. I stay away from anything fear-related.
- Tal Wilkenfeld -

MCK

Quote from: Tronical Bens on February 29, 2016, 12:19:45 AM
i will pass this questiopn on to the software department and see what they say.
I will get back to you later then...

Much appreciated. All the best.

Tronical Bens

Quote from: MCK on February 28, 2016, 12:14:45 PM
Hi Bens,

So glad to hear you were able to get some time off and remain disconnected as well. This is wonderful.

I think you may have misunderstood my question. Let me try to re-phrase.

Back in 2010 or so we had the last release of software for our Dark Fire that allowed amongst other things for us to design analog tone combinations by way of manipulating the little relays inside our guitars which controlled the pickup configurations (aka Chameleon Tone). This version of the software was great but had some other issues (ie relay latching was disabled etc). Since then there has been no more releases and I suspect given the EOL nature of the product and evolution of the Gibson / Tronical investment towards MinETune type headstock only kits I am thinking there will be no more releases either.

My question was whether there might be a way to obtain the source code for the PC/Mac chameleon tone control software so that we as a community of enthusiasts can see if we can take care of ongoing maintenance etc.

Thanks for looking into this. Best regards

Dear MCK,

after a couple of meetings I am sorry to tell you that we will not continue supporting DuskTiger or DarkFire software versions.
Furthermore we cannot give out any the source code or parts of the software as it contains some of the details of what we have developed to the latest version of the product.
Sorry...

You Rock - We Tune

Tronical Bens

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on February 29, 2016, 11:43:38 AM
I haven't used my SG w/minEtunes fore almost a year because of slow tuning.. I missed the upgrade box when it was on sale. As of now I'm not planning on the full upgrade because of the price

The upgrade was actually not a box but a single PCB for upgrading the system at the price of 99USD.
Now the PCB is available with the electronic box which contains PCB, battery and charger.
It's always good to have a spare battery in the pocket... that's what I can say ;)
You Rock - We Tune