GR-33 -Low volume problem

Started by VGA-7, October 10, 2014, 06:45:46 PM

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VGA-7

Aloha everyone!
I realize hardly anyone uses a GR-33 anymore but has anyone noticed a major difference between guitar volume and synth volume. I used to run the 33 thru a Behringer Bass V-amp to boost the volume.
I'm also wondering if the gk-2a pickup is mounted too close to the bridge. I moved the humbucking pickup forward to fit the gk in on my Gibson L6-S, I believe the L6-S is the closest pickup to the bridge of any production guitar.
Gibson L6S /gk2a , Bradley mini strat  /gk2a VGA-7 amp ,GR-33 , GP-10,SY1K, RMC breakout box, PK5 midi pedals,CM-64 sound module, Oberheim EDP  ,Boss RC-300,Digitech TRIO and TRIO +, Alesis DM5, GX2 Gear Shifter and GKPX-14

IGMartin

Have you gone to "System" and adjusted the sensitivity of the individual strings. The GR-33 supports up to 3 (or 4, don't remember right now) settings to accommodate different guitars.

Hope this helps.

CodeSmart

My GR-33 also have low volume compared to GR-55. I played a L6-S copy for 20 years but now my fingers are a bit too fat... ;D
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

admin

Quote from: CodeSmart on June 01, 2019, 01:08:09 AM
My GR-33 also have low volume compared to GR-55. I played a L6-S copy for 20 years but now my fingers are a bit too fat... ;D

I recall the GR-33 was designed prior to the GK-3, and works a bit better with the older divided PU (GK-2A / Yamaha G1D, Axon AIX-101) , which have a bit higher output vs the GK-3  -

http://terratec.ultron.info/AXON/AIX103/Manual/AXON_AIX_103_Manual_1.0_GB.pdf

Mikko127

I also have this problem. I have to play extra hard to get some recognition from the GR33. I already turn the sensitivity to the highest on all string and adjust the play feel to finger. Any other recomendation that I can do instead of buying an used GK2A?

JefffM

I find that to get the highest volume, I set the play feel to "no dynamics".  This means the sound is either on or off but for many patches this isn't a problem.  Even string sounds are fine if you set the envelope attack/decay so the notes fade in and out again.

Mikko127

Quote from: JefffM on July 22, 2020, 02:30:00 AM
I find that to get the highest volume, I set the play feel to "no dynamics".  This means the sound is either on or off but for many patches this isn't a problem.  Even string sounds are fine if you set the envelope attack/decay so the notes fade in and out again.

Thank you for the suggestion. I will give that a try, however it's the string sensitivity I'm really having trouble with. Even when sensitivity is 8 on all string, I am only getting 1 bar of recognition when playing. The height of the string is near 10mm, try new cable, clean my GK3 but no avail.

admin

Quote from: Mikko127 on July 22, 2020, 07:01:05 PM
Thank you for the suggestion. I will give that a try, however it's the string sensitivity I'm really having trouble with. Even when sensitivity is 8 on all string, I am only getting 1 bar of recognition when playing. The height of the string is near 10mm, try new cable, clean my GK3 but no avail.

Its true the older GR-30, GR33 were designed for GK-2A pickup - GK-2A has a higher voltage output vs the GK-3

The GK-3 has lower signal level vs older GK-2A

If you are handy, you can solder and swap  the GK-3 opamp amp gain set resistors for the same values used on GK-2A to increase the  GK-3's output gain,, to accommodate older GK 13 pin gear that expects the higher GK-2A signal levels


http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Op-amp-gain-calculator.php


see Schematics
  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0


GK-2A



GK-3


GK-2A Opamp Gain Sensitivity
----------------------------------
Rin = 8.2K
Rf  = 200K
Gain: 24.39


GK-3 Opamp Gain Sensitivity
----------------------------------
Rin = 820
Rf  = 10K
Gain: 1.01

Mikko127

Quote from: admin on July 22, 2020, 07:11:40 PM
Its true the older GR-30, GR33 were designed for GK-2A pickup - GK-2A has a higher voltage output vs the GK-3

The GK-3 has lower signal level vs older GK-2A

If you are handy, you can solder and swap  the GK-3 opamp amp gain set resistors for the same values used on GK-2A to increase the  GK-3's output gain,, to accommodate older GK 13 pin gear that expects the higher GK-2A signal levels


http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Op-amp-gain-calculator.php


see Schematics
  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0


GK-2A



GK-3


GK-2A Opamp Gain Sensitivity
----------------------------------
Rin = 8.2K
Rf  = 200K
Gain: 24.39


GK-3 Opamp Gain Sensitivity
----------------------------------
Rin = 820
Rf  = 10K
Gain: 1.01


Thank you admin for the detail suggestion. I am not sure if I am up to the task for pursuing this option. Not very handy with the soldering iron but I will look into this route. Anyways, you guys rock. Play on!!!

billbax

QuoteIf you are handy, you can solder and swap  the GK-3 opamp amp gain set resistors for the same values used on GK-2A to increase the  GK-3's output gain,, to accommodate older GK 13 pin gear that expects the higher GK-2A signal levels

Sorry Admin, both the GK3/GK2A gain set resistors are 10k, and a 220k resistor would make a GK-2A unusable. GK-2A schematic typo?

I remember modding my GK-2A back in 2007 with a 33k and was surprised to see the GK-2A resistor was actually 10k. While I was at it, I also swapped out four op-amps with opa2134 which improved the audio string transients/attack - GK-2A sounded a little brighter. Jumping from 10k to 33k is a safe GK-2A and GK3 +10dB mod, as individual string levels are nearer line-level. I would strongly recommend this mod for passive breakout box users, minimising the need for large DAW line-level input gain.

Didn't mean to nitpick - much :D

Bill

three_eyed_otter

Hello to All,

Anybody know if the low output issue is the same with piezo pickups like what is in the Godin XTSA?  Also, is this low output issue pretty much the consensus amongst all of the GK3 USERS?  Yesterday I purchased a GR 33 & I do have a Godin XTSA, but I prefer my Strat with the GK3...

Have a good one,

3EO

kenact

Quote from: three_eyed_otter on February 25, 2021, 12:35:03 PM
Hello to All,

Anybody know if the low output issue is the same with piezo pickups like what is in the Godin XTSA?  Also, is this low output issue pretty much the consensus amongst all of the GK3 USERS?  Yesterday I purchased a GR 33 & I do have a Godin XTSA, but I prefer my Strat with the GK3...

Have a good one,

3EO
I use a GR-33 with both an LGX-SA & LGXT. I've never had a problem with volume, either hex or humbucker. I just plugged my Vintage brand SG with a GK-3, and had no problem with that either.

This may sound like a silly question, but have you checked your patch cables and jacks?
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

VGA-7

I started this thread 7 yrs ago and still have the problem. I use a GK2A pickup. Now I run it thru a cheap 4 channel mixer with switch on mic instead of line. Into the guitar input on my SY1000. I also have Rickenbacker 4001 bass and cheap electric violin in the mixer too. Both sound better switched to mic instead of line. Though when I run guitar I switch to line. I really like my GR-33 except for the lower than normal volume. When I 1st got it I tried to plug it into the line in on my VGA-7 but the VGA-7 presets drowned it out.
Gibson L6S /gk2a , Bradley mini strat  /gk2a VGA-7 amp ,GR-33 , GP-10,SY1K, RMC breakout box, PK5 midi pedals,CM-64 sound module, Oberheim EDP  ,Boss RC-300,Digitech TRIO and TRIO +, Alesis DM5, GX2 Gear Shifter and GKPX-14

martinmj

Amen to that! I have just acquired a Gr-33, and despite turning all the string sensitivity settings to max, ditto the patch settings, I have had to resort to using a small headphone amp to get a reasonable headphone volume. I should add most of my playing is done using this output. The pickup is a built-in GK-3 kit, but the GR should have come with a GK-2A pickup that went missing before sale, so I might try one just to see if it improves the situation.
I could amend the resistors as outlined previously, but I also use the guitar with a VG-88 and a Boss GP-10 so have no wish to overload those.

gumtown

Quote from: martinmj on March 25, 2021, 07:08:26 AM
I could amend the resistors as outlined previously, but I also use the guitar with a VG-88 and a Boss GP-10 so have no wish to overload those.

The VG-88 may benefit from the higher gain that a GK-2A would normally output,
the GP-10 could then have the GK type set from GK-3 to GK-2A to compensate the extra level it 'sees'.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/