How To Setup Strat Style Tremolo

Started by notnomiistakes, September 23, 2011, 03:49:59 PM

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notnomiistakes

Found this by Carl Verheyen.  friend did it on his strat & it stays in tune
He's selling his strings here too but really good instruction


more instruction

platypibri

I use the Verheyen method on my strats, and I find you can be pretty aggressive with the bar and come back in tune.

notnomiistakes

Quote from: platypibri on September 25, 2011, 10:17:20 PM
I use the Verheyen method on my strats, and I find you can be pretty aggressive with the bar and come back in tune.
Good to hear it works for someone else.  My friend who uses it only sings and plays rhythm. 

musicman65

Interesting video.

I've been playing floating bridge Strats for 30 yrs. By my estimation, his trick is 80% in the lube, 10% in the string winding, with the remainder being a properly cut nut and carefully de-burred and polished saddles. I couldn't tell if he had a roller tree.  I'm really not too sure about the unequal length spring thing. It seems the bridge would have to twist to transmit more movement to one side or the other...interesting idea though. I'll try it on one of my stock strats. String guage (and the resulting tension) is the main contributor to how much the pitch varies with bridge movement. His custom string set probably helps.  I have managed to keep a stock floating bridge usably in tune, but it takes a lot of TLC.

Most guys that I've played with that claim they have no issues on a stock trem are either not heavy handed players or they tolerate being out of tune....or worse yet, can't hear that they are out of tune! Most, not all. Some of us learned to bump the trem back in tune after hard bends and dives.

If you want bulletproof tuning stability under harsh, heavy handed playing then a locking tremolo can't be beat. Until recently that meant giving up adjustable saddles and modding your axe. I am now using a Super-Vee tremolo ( http://www.super-vee.com ) that is a full locking system that drops in without modifications. It has the adjustability of a stock bridge but locks similar to a Floyd Rose. Tuning is super stable, Floyd-like. It is the answer to a lot of headaches, fiddling, lubing, and tweaking I have endured over the years. Now I take it out of the case and play. Oh, string changes are a snap, too...6 minutes typically.

I still love a stock trem....just too high maintenance!

bd in tn

notnomiistakes

#4
I just spoke to my friend who did it and he never lubed.  I think he just watched the video and forgot to do it.  I was totally impressed with his strat.  curious to know how it works on yours when you do it.   

went to super-vee I'll consider that when money starts flowing in again.  question  --- does it have crosstalk.  For example if you pluck the low E string and while the note is ringing bend the B string (just bend not pluck the B) at the same time does the pitch change on the low E string?  thanks

aliensporebomb

Quote from: notnomiistakes on January 07, 2012, 01:12:05 PM
I just spoke to my friend who did it and he never lubed.  I think he just watched the video and forgot to do it.  I was totally impressed with his strat.  curious to know how it works on yours when you do it.   

went to super-vee I'll consider that when money starts flowing in again.  question  --- does it have crosstalk.  For example if you pluck the low E string and while the note is ringing bend the B string (just bend not pluck the B) at the same time does the pitch change on the low E string?  thanks

I've ordered the Super-Vee Bladerrunner yesterday.  I will let you know.  They indicate their new product called "The Mag-Lok" that can be added to the any guitar with a block and string tremelo system is "designed to maintain tuning stability during double-stop string bends with a perceptible detent for the return to zero position".  Might be worth a look see and it's currently about $45 USD. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

notnomiistakes

musicman65 thanks for showing the Super-Vee

aliensporebomb looking forward to your Super-Vee review.  maybe a new topic so everyone can discover it?

aliensporebomb

Yes, I'll do a review. 

I strongly considered the Super-Vee double locking trem but the cost was a little dear and keeping the look stock makes it a bit easier for the GK3 to stay mounted since I've got some guitars with Floyds and they extend so far south on the guitar body that the back end of the trem impinges on the GK3 real estate. 

I do want to try one of the dual locking models but the improvement in resonance and sustain with the Bladerunner was intriguing so I just had to go and try it.  It's a bit of a late christmas gift anyway so....more when it arrives.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

musicman65

Any floating tremolo system that balances with a block and spring arrangement is going to "bow" forward on bends because the overall balance and tension increases with the bending action. This causes all strings to go flat during the bend. I use the old "tremsetter" device that used to come  with the Strat Deluxe to eliminate this issue. Works like a champ with any stock style trem.

bd

notnomiistakes

#9
Quote from: musicman65 on January 07, 2012, 09:48:43 PM
Any floating tremolo system that balances with a block and spring arrangement is going to "bow" forward on bends because the overall balance and tension increases with the bending action. This causes all strings to go flat during the bend. I use the old "tremsetter" device that used to come  with the Strat Deluxe to eliminate this issue. Works like a champ with any stock style trem.

bd


I tried a tremsetter on my mij strat in '90s for a short time.  it took away from the whammy effect to get the crosstalk out of it.   i don't recall what brand i had but i think it cost $12 plus install fee.   Thanks for info on your fender deluxe.  good to know it works.

I went to Guitar Center last year and thought I'd try PRS Custom 24 to test for crosstalk and it was there so you are right it's on all guitars.  i was just disappointed.  now I know it's not possible to find one w/o crosstalk

musicman65

The Tremsetter device works by engaging a spring in only one direction (pitch down). Theside effect is the feel of the dual tensions...kinda feels like a notch at the balance point. The amount of "extra tension" that keeps the other strings from dropping during bends is adjustable. I dial in just enough to keep low E from going flat when bending the B string a whole step (2 frets). I can perform double stop chops with no pitch issues and still pull back to raise pitch. The notchy feel is unavoidable if you want a floating vintage trem without strings going flat while bending. The Tremsetter is a workable compromise that gives the stability and better sustain of a trem that sits flush on the body (pitch down only)while retaining the ability to raise pitch also.

Only Kahler and Steinburg with their cam operated trems have solved this issue but they aren't traditional block and spring pivot systems.

bd



musicman65

The Tremol-no is a engage/disengage lock from what I just read. Pretty cool. I don't think it fixes the "crosstalk" (other strings go flat on bends) that notnomiistakes referred to unless the trem is locked.

bd

fuzzfactory

big big big fan of the tremsetter
once it is set up correctly it is awesome
that with a lsr roller nut and some locking tuners and i am good to go ;D

musicman65

yep....got a tremsetter on every trem'd axe I own. Its the best 35 bucks you can spend on a strat IMHO.

bd

Machh_2

Nice, this video revels good secrets...
but, how to know the balance between up coil and lower coil pression ?...

notnomiistakes

great info on tremsetter,  i had given up on them.  thanks all!

notnomiistakes

#16
Quote from: Machh_2 on January 10, 2012, 03:49:02 AM
Nice, this video revels good secrets...
but, how to know the balance between up coil and lower coil pression ?...
if I'm understanding your question correctly I believe all you have to do is adjust the claw screws on the back of the guitar on an angle.  then go back and forth adjusting, intonating, tuning until it all balances out so guitar comes back into tune after you use the whammy.  he said the first time it took several hours and now he can do it on a new guitar in 15 minutes.

mbenigni

Quote from: aliensporebomb on January 07, 2012, 08:53:32 PM
I do want to try one of the dual locking models but the improvement in resonance and sustain with the Bladerunner was intriguing so I just had to go and try it.  It's a bit of a late christmas gift anyway so....more when it arrives.

I've got a Blade Runner on my RR Strat now, and I love it.  The full-blown SuperVee was very tempting, but I didn't like the fact that it wasn't quite a tool free solution. (A missed opportunity IMO, since there's only one hex part to unlock the nut.  Wish that had been a hand-operated clamp of some kind.)  Also, for all the comparisons to a Floyd, I couldn't really visualize how the range would be any wider than the Blade Runners without additional routing in the trem block cavity, unless the trem block itself has a very unusual shape. 

Obviously tuning stability would be better with a locking nut, but all in all the Blade Runner seemed like a good comprimise: easier to install, easier to use, better looking (IMO).  The blade hinge is simply a brilliant idea.  But possibly the most valuable thing to arrive w/ the Blade Runner was a little piece of paper recommending lube and proper setup of the string tree height.  The latter has made all the difference for me.

I've since received their Nut Evolution lube and one of the Mag-Loks (I guess I'm an official SuperVee fan now...) but I've yet to put either on the guitar.  I started to install the Mag-Lok last night but realized I'd have to retension the claw (because my springs are angled at present) and chickened out.  Hard to fix one problem when you know you're likely to make new ones for a little while, and the Mag-Lok is one of those things I only occasionally realize I need (depending on the style of music I'm playing.)  I'm sure I'll get around to it soon, though.

mbenigni

QuoteI couldn't tell if he had a roller tree.
Looks like a traditional tree to me, but he does indicate that lubes this in addition to the nut, which I never even considered.  Good idea, obvious enough.

musicman65

The double locker Super-Vee is a no-comprimise solution when tuning stability is the goal. It requires a single allen wrench for string locking and another for intonation. A tiny one adjusts string saddle height. I only carry the locking wrench and it rides in a tiny hole cut in the lining of my leather guitar strap on the end nearest the bridge. Btw, the cost is about the same as an Original Floyd Rose last time I looked.

Since the VG99/GR55 has alternate tuning, I only unlock to change a broke string or new strings.

Here's something cool about Floyd-style locking bridges....did you know you can repair a string that breaks at the bridge in 60 seconds using the old string? just unlock the nut, unwind a few wraps from the tuner post and reinsert the broken end in the saddle vise. Retune, relock, play.

For that reason alone, I love a locking trem!

bd


aliensporebomb

Quote from: musicman65 on January 10, 2012, 01:18:38 PM
The double locker Super-Vee is a no-comprimise solution when tuning stability is the goal. It requires a single allen wrench for string locking and another for intonation. A tiny one adjusts string saddle height. I only carry the locking wrench and it rides in a tiny hole cut in the lining of my leather guitar strap on the end nearest the bridge. Btw, the cost is about the same as an Original Floyd Rose last time I looked.

Since the VG99/GR55 has alternate tuning, I only unlock to change a broke string or new strings.

Here's something cool about Floyd-style locking bridges....did you know you can repair a string that breaks at the bridge in 60 seconds using the old string? just unlock the nut, unwind a few wraps from the tuner post and reinsert the broken end in the saddle vise. Retune, relock, play.

For that reason alone, I love a locking trem!

bd

I've done that for 20 years - sometimes onstage.  :)

This time I'm not going for locking on the strat.  Just a bladerunner.  But the other guitars have double locking Floyd trems so no problem with extreme whammy there.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

mbenigni

Quote from: musicman65 on January 10, 2012, 01:18:38 PM
Here's something cool about Floyd-style locking bridges....did you know you can repair a string that breaks at the bridge in 60 seconds using the old string? just unlock the nut, unwind a few wraps from the tuner post and reinsert the broken end in the saddle vise. Retune, relock, play.

Yeah, it's a cool trick and it saves a bit of money over time.  Plus you don't wind up with one brand new string on a stale set as you otherwise would.  But it's still not nearly as fast as throwing a new string over a non-locking nut with locking tuners. 

I played Floyds exclusively for a long time.  I think I'm just too damned lazy now.  :)

ecca


paults

Super Vee appears to have addressed the issue of double-stop bend string detuning issues:

https://super-vee.com/whats_new.html


notnomiistakes

thanks paults so good to know.  wow!