FTP Alt Tuning Methods

Started by Elantric, April 25, 2013, 10:00:48 PM

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Elantric

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=33223.msg246141#msg246141

Fishman Support says:
QuoteHi Steve,

We don't have global alternative tunings options.

For simple patches, it would be an option to use string splits to create drop D or DADGAD, by creating multiple synths with individual transpositions.  You could arrange user patches into songs, and use the song navigation to navigate between different tunings. 

While I realize this is not ideal for your application, it is one workaround to make this functionality possible for performances with TriplePlay.

Shawnb wrote>
The way SampleTank works is that it loads 6 different channels. 
So you can definitely do alt tunings as long as the synth supports it. 
If you press the little 'Synth' button, you can adjust the pitch for each string/channel independently.
But this is the only way I've found. 






So I have cultivated the following info:

Possible solutions for lack of Hardware "Alt Tuning" maps per patch in the TriplePlay.

For FTP users with OSX/Win7

Costas wrote>

This [Hardware Alt Tuning] feature doesn't exist at the moment.

If you are using a Kontakt instrument and GTAK you can use Gtak to do this: http://evenharmonic.com/products/gtak5?page=0,14&quicktabs_productinfotabs=2


http://evenharmonic.com/sites/default/files/gtak5/gtak5_manual.pdf

For FTP users with OSX
MIDIPipe - which is what Burr Johnson used during FTP NAMM Demos
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8427.new#new

http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html

MidiPipe is freeware and comes with no warranties. MidiPipe can be useful in a music studio or live on stage to route, map, filter, convert, display, input and output MIDI messages in real-time.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=33223.msg246166#msg246166


For FTP users with iPad , boot up in MIDI Mono Mode (hold down the "Up" button on Controller during power on), to provide separate MIDI channel per string.

Then it may be possible to use an IOS app called MIDIBridge to apply a real time note transpose offset to each MIDI channel

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/midibridge/id449160859?mt=8

MIDI Bridge Manual
http://www.audeonic.com/index.shtml#midibridge
http://www.audeonic.com/index.shtml





Description

MidiBridge is the comprehensive MIDI tool that iOS is missing and absolutely essential for anyone using MIDI with an iDevice.

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- Apply keyboard splits, velocity curves and other useful MIDI functions on any MIDI port

MIDI DEVICE SUPPORT
- All CoreMIDI physical devices
- Akai Synthstation 25
- Line6 Midi Mobilizer I
- CoreMIDI network (as a session originator or receiver to/from Mac or PC)
- CoreMIDI virtual ports (to/from other apps)

MORE FEATURES
- Runs in background
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- Save/recall module presets
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*NEW* - EVENT MANIPULATION (on every MIDI port)
- Velocity curve
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COMMON USES
- Drive most CoreMIDI apps (eg. Animoog, GarageBand, SampleTank, BeatMaker) from a Synthstation 25 or original Midi Mobilizer
- Connect Geo synth to SampleTank (see Jordan Rudess on youtube)
- Filter out active sense messages from instruments
- With a powered hub and Apple CCK, connect multiple USB class compliant MIDI devices and route between them
- Connect your battery operated keyboard/drum controller (or SynthStation) to your iDevice and connect wirelessly to perform cable-free
- Connect a MIDI transport surface wirelessly to your computer and move around your studio controlling your DAW transport
- Duplicate MIDI events from one external device to another and to a remote MIDI destination wirelessly at the same time
- Use as an inline MIDI filter, cloner, merger or splitter
- Connect apps that have CoreMIDI network support but no virtual MIDI support to virtual ports by connecting to 'localhost' to create a loopback virtual interface (see our website)

MORE INFORMATION

Browse our website for a wealth of information to get to grips with CoreMIDI, OMAC and MidiBridge. The full manual for MidiBridge and helpful guides are available there for you to assess whether MidiBridge is suitable for you before you purchase. You'll find step-by-step recipes for common situations and links to videos too. If you search MidiBridge on youtube there are a host of end-user videos showing how to configure MidiBridge for different situations. Do also contact us if you are unsure about anything and we'll assess whether MidiBridge will do the job.

Note: iOS5 is recommended and essential for running the Synthstation and Midi Mobilizer I in the background. CoreMIDI available in iOS4.2 and up (although MidiBridge will run on iOS3).



As of version 1.4, MidiBridge includes a set of modules that can transform/filter the MIDI event streams passing through any MidiBridge port. This guide delves a little deeper than the built-in documentation in hopefully a more narrative and easy to digest fashion. Not that there is anything wrong with the manual...

MidiBridge first introduced event filtering on every port. With version 1.4, this concept has been expanded to perform commonly used event modification used by musicians/MidiPhiles. Use modules to:

Filter out (or in) certain types of events on ports.
Remap any incoming MIDI note to another, say for mapping a drum set to corresponding notes expected by an app/sound module.
Transpose all notes up or down.
Split the MIDI keyboard range into upper/lower splits and assign each split to a separate MIDI channel. Use this also to remap all incoming notes to a different MIDI channel.
Define velocity scaling curves to remap incoming playing velocities.
Remap incoming controllers and channels interdependently.
Perform note microtuning based upon H-Pi (see http://www.h-pi.com) microtonal keyboards.
Split the MIDI velocity range into upper/lower splits and assign each split to a separate MIDI channel.
Modules are chained one to the other so can be combined.
Save any module's setup into a user namable/recallable preset.
So, not only can you use MidiBridge to interconnect MIDI streams from physical interfaces, wi-fi and apps with virtual MIDI, you can now apply comprehensive filtering and transformation on the event streams too!
   




For FTP Users with iConnectMIDI feeding Hardware  - use a MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm


http://www.midisolutions.com/ptepp.htm



MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus

The MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus offers all of the functionality of the MIDI Solutions Event Processor, with 32 settings instead of the Event Processor's 10, and 8 variable storage locations instead of the Event Processor's 2. Each of the Event Processor Plus's 32 settings can be programmed with a unique MIDI processing function. By combining these settings the Event Processor Plus becomes an extremely powerful tool capable of processing MIDI events in almost any way imaginable. You can map MIDI events or ranges of MIDI events to other MIDI events, filter MIDI events or ranges of MIDI events, trigger MIDI events, toggle between MIDI events, sequence through MIDI events, scale or crossfade MIDI messages, transpose notes, scale velocities, map to and from System Exclusive, NRPN, Bank Select messages, store incoming values in variables for later use... the Event Processor is like a swiss army knife of MIDI processing products, an indispensable tool in any MIDI musician's arsenal.

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or


There are many other "hardware options" too.
Like using the Tripleplay + iconnectMIDI, and drive a multitimberal /multivoice synth  - like a recent Roland Fantom, or the 2007 (and now discontinued)  Roland Juno-G (baby Fantom)  - or Yamaha Motif, etc - many of these include a "defacto" built in MIDI Event Processor that supports Real time MIDI Transpose functions (16 - one per MIDI channel) to drive the internal sounds or expansion sound boards.

shawnb

#1
The Kontakt 5 presets - the ones specifically in the TriplePlay folder of the Elements Selection Library...

Also load 6 channels, and with their pitch wheels all lined up it is also very easy to set alt tunings here, too! 

Use the TriplePlay presets in the TriplePlay folder!!!! 


(*** Note you can actually do this to any voice in Kontakt.  Just load 6 instances it will automatically increase the channels from 1-6.  Then shrink each by pressing on the circular logo on the left of each "rack mounted" synth module, it will shrink to a short form & look like this:***)

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Synth Nicolas

#2
How easy (or difficult?) is it to create alternate tunings with Tripleplay and soft synth? seems really complicated to me if I watch this topic.
Is it a hassle to use? I will be using Ableton live when I have my Tripleplay.

One of the main things of choosing between the VG-99 or Tripleplay is the alternate tunings option. I Like the more flexible synth sounds and better midi/softsynth tracking of the Tripleplay but also really like the alternate tunings. Is it easy/user friendly to get alternate tunings from the Tripleplay? Also in a live setting?
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Elantric

The two posts right above yours reveal all known info on FTP Alternate Tunings.

IMHO - The FTP's non direct support for creating Alternate Tunings on the fly (from a standard E-A-D-G-B-E tuned guitar) on a patch by patch basis seems to be an oversight.

Some discussion is here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=33223.0

Synth Nicolas

#4
ok, seems redundant and not very promising. So not very handy too use?  :(
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

shawnb


Any synth, hardware or software, that supports multi-mode & pitch adjustment, can be config'd in a similar manner as shown above to achieve alt tunings. 

Yes, this is awkward, especially if you have a lot of different configurations you use, but it really only takes a minute to setup.  The biggest problem is that the alt-tuning isn't easily re-used on other voices, you gotta set it up again everywhere needed. 

You gotta think of the pickup & the app as two different things.  The pickup is awesome.   The FTP app is still very early in its maturity cycle (4 months since release), and does not have a lot of depth of functionality yet.  It's good for programming the FTP, and for very basic VST hosting. 

If you really need more flexibility in the near term, such as easily config'd and re-used alt tunings, you should probably look at Cantabile, as germanicus has pointed out in several posts:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9235.msg67234#msg67234

I am sure there are numerous other VST host products that provide such functionality.  The two more feature-rich hosts that are mentioned for guitarist usage are Forte and Cantabile.   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Synth Nicolas

Quote from: shawnb on September 11, 2013, 11:17:07 PM
If you really need more flexibility in the near term, such as easily config'd and re-used alt tunings, you should probably look at Cantabile, as germanicus has pointed out in several posts:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9235.msg67234#msg67234

I am sure there are numerous other VST host products that provide such functionality.  The two more feature-rich hosts that are mentioned for guitarist usage are Forte and Cantabile.

Do think the Fishman Tripleplay software will be update in the (near) future for alt tunings? or any other major upgrades?
Thanks for the tip on Cantabile! not sure if that program will also work for the Mobius looper (8 separate looper track). I use Ableton live for this now as most others do who use Mobius.
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

shawnb

#7
Fishman has not provided a roadmap for enhancements.  They sometimes provide hints, such as letting us know that improvements to hw mode were coming before the latest release.   In response to a trouble ticket I opened recently, they hinted they were currently working on better foot controller support.  (Read the whole thread referenced above...)

I cannot provide specific input on things like Moebius/Cantabile, since I don't use either.  I suggest getting the free trial version of Cantabile & testing that out for yourself.
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Tone

Hi guys - long time since I last posted.
I recently bought a FTP, and picked up my audio interface (FOCUSRITE Scarlett 6i6) this Thursday. Apart from the string level adjustment and Guitar Rig 5, I've basically ignored the FTP software bundle, and have been testing audio and midi with the fantastic VST plugin host by Hermann Seib, VSTHost.
Alternate tuning can be easily created with the MIDI Shape Shifter plugin receiving from FTP in MIDI Mono Mode (hold down the "Up" button on Controller during power on). The screen-shot shows a simple setup: the first MIDI Shape Shifter plugin alters the tuning and the second is used to transpose the notes. I'm then monitoring the output with Midi Chords. All the software in this screen-shot are either free or donation-ware.

Elantric

Tone,
Thanks for posting this great info !

Synth Nicolas

ok great! does this run on a Mac in Ableton also?
gitaarles en basgitaarles in Weert
www.gitaarschoolweert.nl

Tone

Of the software I mentioned it looks like only midiChords has Mac versions. KVR, http://www.kvraudio.com/ (probably the most complete online database), could be a good place to start searching for alternatives. I haven't tried it but Ableton running in Windows should be OK.

p.s. I'm using Windows 8.

shawnb

Just noticed there is a video version of some of these techniques on TripleTalk, the TriplePlay support blog:
http://tripletalk.fishman.com/2014/04/creating-alternate-tunings/

Link to TripleTalk:
http://tripletalk.fishman.com/

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp