Boss SY-300 Pedal (Cast your Vote!)

[thebrushwithin]

That's certainly possible. But at the same time, don't you think that the free patch exchange will alleviate some of that? I think the Kemper example is a good one; there are some people who make some money off their profiles, but far more people download free profiles, and there are a lot of great free profiles out there. I would imagine that a lot of players could easily get by on just the free stuff.

Yes, I agree, in fact most of my "go to" profiles are free ones I tweaked. However, $50 for a Michael Britt pack, is a great deal, and I bought a couple, and do use them. Many of the players on the forum speak of using certain commercial packs exclusively. Can't wait to see the SY manual for more details, to see what tools, besides traditional effects, are available. Over several decades, I have been every bit as interested in synthesis, as I have guitar, and worked with ARPs, Prophets, Korgs, Yamahas, and one of my favorites, the Roland Super Jupiter. So, I am praying Roland is treating this synth as some of their great synth units of the past. And, as Elantric pointed out, the re synthesis tool should be a monster.
The most interesting feature for me, is the ability to transcend my soloing chops, by using my voice, which is arguably my forte. I tried this with my Axon, but the tech wasn't there. I can envision a signal switcher, with both guitar and vocal as input into this, while still utilizing either my 13 pin synths, or FTP, into a separate synth live. As you can tell, I am really getting jacked up about this machine's promise.
We will see, but if it is as advertised, the new VG will probably follow, using 1/4" input. EHX is already showing great strides in this area, ala Pitch Fork, and the C9.

[Elantric]

http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php/Thread/20052-Synth-like-the-Boss-SY-300/


Ingolf wrote>

I'm just back from the Musikmesse where the SY-300 was demoed by Gundy Keller and I had the chance to try it in person.

This thing was the ONLY TRUE INNOVATION I saw this year. Freaking awesome and I'll buy one as soon as it'ts out .

I predict this will have at least as much impact as the Whammy 1.
In a few years many many guitarists will possess one.

The specs say it's polyphonic - did you find it reacted well to chords?

Ingolf wrote>

Polyphonic reaction was great! No wrong notes, no glitches, no latency.

[Now_And_Then]

The GR300 was a fairly limited device, but Fripp, Metheny, & Summers managed to make GREAT music with it.

A limited device is easier to market: easier to explain, easier to grasp, easier to learn to use - especially for the saleshelp.

[Now_And_Then]

http://www.bossus.com/blog/2015/04/15/new-product-sy-300-guitar-synthesizer/

The SY-300 also includes multi-effects to enhance both synth and straight tones.

So... once again we have a situation where, unless it is specifically mentioned, we can't know if we are listening to the synthesized sound, the "conventionally"-fx'ed sound of the guitar output, or both.

This makes understanding the demos very tricky. I seem to recall reading posts about the GR-55 where the guitar sound itself masked the latency of the PCM sounds. The same could be the case with the SY-300. This problem would have been a reason for me to not buy the GR-55 had I not already decided not to buy it for a variety of other reason.

This calls for very cautious evaluations of the device's capabilites even during a hands-on demo.

That said, the re-synth capability somewhat increases its potential usefulness (and therefore attractiveness) for me; but I still need a much, much better demonstration of its sound-design capabilities. ("Somewhat" increases its potential usefulness to me because an RMC Fanout Box already obviously gave me the resynthing capability - and one that does not rely on software at all, nor on Roland's software in particular, nor on USB - each one a big plus in my eyes. I like!)

[Elantric]

VGuitar Forums > Boss SY-300 Guitar Synth > Boss SY-300 General Discussion > Boss SY-300 F.A.Q
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14600.0



VGuitar Forums > Boss SY-300 Guitar Synth > Boss SY-300 General Discussion
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=189.0

VGuitar Forums > Boss SY-300 Guitar Synth > Boss SY-300 Top Things to Know
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=190.0

VGuitar Forums > Boss SY-300 Guitar Synth > Boss SY-300 Patch Exchange
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=191.0



VGuitarforums Boss SY-300 Group Buy
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14602.msg104496#msg104496

[Mrchevy]

The more thought that I put into the function descriptions in Elantrics first post, the more I begin to think MAYBE, this thing could be big, and heres why.... Two factors that could be big for this unit are an apparent FX loop AND, Midi in/thru. Now, IF the unit can integrate and be taken advantage of by using say the GT100 in the loop, AND have midi control of it also from the GT100 for it's CTL abilities, then, this could be a situation where my diet will turn to eating crow and choking on my first impression criticisms. At this point, I'm very interested to know what the signal routing within the unit is and where the effect loop sets in the signal, and will it be movable or at least sensibly placed in the signal flow. Will it allow you to run and morph a processed signal from the GT100 thru synthesis. Also, will it accept midi from the GT100 to allow patch change, CTL change, and use of the GT100's EXP pedal and all its features. We know the GR55 kinda fell short with the effects and its limitations to add additional effects ( no effects loop ), but the ability to insert an endless array of effects ( or any type of audio) into the SY300, and morph it into the end signal..........I must say, I am beginning to sport wood at the potential. I will wait for those here that are versed on the building of synth tones from scratch, to express their opinions on the parameter functions.
So, If the SY300 is a fully functional synth, is truly polyphonic with a 1/4" plug from a guitar, has full ability to be controlled via midi from an external source, and an effects loop that can process any audio signal or effect thru the unit, ............Well, allrighty then  . You just get on with yo bad self there Boss.   Screw the demo's, I want the manual and signal flow chart.
One more note, swap out the GT100 with a GR55 for above thoughts..........HMMMM smaller overall footprint.

[Elantric]

So... once again we have a situation where, unless it is specifically mentioned, we can't know if we are listening to the synthesized sound, the "conventionally"-fx'ed sound of the guitar output, or both.

This makes understanding the demos very tricky. I seem to recall reading posts about the GR-55 where the guitar sound itself masked the latency of the PCM sounds. The same could be the case with the SY-300. This problem would have been a reason for me to not buy the GR-55 had I not already decided not to buy it for a variety of other reason.

This calls for very cautious evaluations of the device's capabilites even during a hands-on demo.

100% agree!  - I admit I was deceived a bit in my initial brief latency test of the GR-55 on the show floor of the 2011 Winter NAMM show  - with no owners manual and no detailed resource patch list, it was impossible to determine what was actually  triggering the sounds I was hearing in my headphones ( COSM Guitar? COSM Synth?, PCM Synth?)

So its likely the ability of the Boss SY-300 to actually play chords highly depends  on the specific resources that are active at any given time in the specific patch ( FX Guitar / Blend / Generated 3 OSC Synth

The more thought that I put into the function descriptions in Elantrics first post, the more I begin to think MAYBE, this thing could be big, and heres why....

Since moved here:
VGuitar Forums > Boss SY-300 Guitar Synth > Boss SY-300 General Discussion > Boss SY-300 F.A.Q
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14600.0

Screw the demo's, I want the manual and signal flow chart.

Using the 2014 Boss GP-10 release as an example, I predict a late May 2015 for the 1st arrival of Boss SY-300 Owners manual.

it will follow the latest protocol  for Boss manuals, and arrive as three documents here:

Boss Netherlands, and must be translated from Dutch to English
http://nl.boss.info/support/owners_manuals/



* Boss SY-300 Owner Manual

* Boss SY-300 Parameter Guide

* Boss SY-300 MIDI Implementation

[thebrushwithin]

Haven't been to the Kemper forum in a couple of days, so I am really glad Ingolf was there to report on it. He is a very sensible chap, and I value his opinions. Great news!

[Orren Merton]

Over several decades, I have been every bit as interested in synthesis, as I have guitar, and worked with ARPs, Prophets, Korgs, Yamahas, and one of my favorites, the Roland Super Jupiter.

That is a great list! I've worked with the Yamaha DX7, Moogs and Prophet synthesizers (I'm dying for a new Sequential Prophet 6!), and I was one of the original testers of the TC Works Powercore Roland SH-5 simulation, but I never had a real one to work with. Nor have I ever worked with a real ARP or Super Jupiter. I am officially envious.

So, I am praying Roland is treating this synth as some of their great synth units of the past. And, as Elantric pointed out, the re synthesis tool should be a monster.

I couldn't agree more. This thread is filled with posts fretting over the SY-300's tracking engine. Including mine. But I am just as interested in the potential of it's synthesis engine. There have been some really amazingly good analog-style digital synthesizers recently, and regardless of the limitations of the presets designed for Musikmesse, if the engine is a really high quality one that allows for great sound design, that will be a huge draw for me.

I can envision a signal switcher, with both guitar and vocal as input into this, while still utilizing either my 13 pin synths, or FTP, into a separate synth live.

My initial feeling is that if the device can handle polyphonic input from an audio jack, as long as the source has the same basic tonal range found between the bass and guitar octaves, it should work (so I'm afraid dog whistle might be out ). One issue I can imagine is level and impedance matching a microphone input to the SY-300's Hi-Z input. This is manageable, it would just mean using a mic preamp with a 1/4" output (and possibly some impedance matching). But it would require some testing when an actual device is available.

Orren

[Orren Merton]

I'm very interested to know what the signal routing within the unit is and where the effect loop sets in the signal, and will it be movable or at least sensibly placed in the signal flow.

This is a great question. We won't know until we see it, of course. But considering one of the other BOSS devices being pushed is the ES-8 which allows you to route the various send/returns in any order, that gives me some hope that similar technology will be in the SY-300.

I will wait for those here that are versed on the building of synth tones from scratch, to express their opinions on the parameter functions.

That's why I really hope that I can get Roland to send me one on loan. I want to dig into it, to really program it myself. I'm not a professional sound designer, but I've done enough synth reviews and worked with enough digital and analog instruments to be comfortable around parameters, and to know how to get sounds I'm looking for. Assuming I get the opportunity I'll definitely report!

Orren

[Elantric]

We await the owners manual   but if the SY-300's three oscillator internal synth engine responds to external MIDI Note On/off messages too - this will open up lots of options.

And remember GT-100, GT-001 offer Pitch to mono MIDI from a 1/4" input

I suspect the SY-300 performs this same function too

We await the SY-300 Owners Manual and SY-300 Parameter Guide to learn what features make the final cut for production release



Also a Poll reminder - you may remove your existing vote and change your mind with a new choice.

[Elantric]

VGuitarforums Boss SY-300 Group Buy
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14602.msg104496#msg104496

[SLICK]

Looks like you need to use the neck pickup to get the best tracking. Just like all the audio to midi solutions out there. Could be frustrating if you plan on using traditional guitar tones at the same time.
Pretty sure that there will be no midi note processing out our in on this one.
Also I'd hold of on any speculation on and and return loops being inn the right place or movable in the chain as boss have a nasty habit of almost giving us what we want.

[Elantric]

Looks like you need to use the neck pickup to get the best tracking

It points that a dedicated SY-300 user might consider having a TRS cable from the Guitar and employ a dedicated Neck PU on the 1/4" TRS cable's  "Ring" connection to drive the SY-300

I'm sure tracking is improved with the neck PU ( less harmonic overtones and more fundamental string pitch there vs Bridge PU )  - but I do see Alex change his PU selector a lot in the video below



MESSE 2015: Demo of Polyphony on the BOSS SY-300 Guitar Synth Alex Hutchings demos the pedal\'s full capabilities



and Gundy is mostly using Bridge PU here:

[Now_And_Then]

Looks like you need to use the neck pickup to get the best tracking. Just like all the audio to midi solutions out there. Could be frustrating if you plan on using traditional guitar tones at the same time.

Which reminds me of something that occurred to me while watching the videos: I only ever see these guys playing solid-body electrics which are, somewhat coincidentally, my least favorite kind of guitars. The overwhelming majority of my guitars are archtops, semi-hollow, thin-line, or hollow bodies and I like them much, much more than solid-bodies. But it's easy to imagine that the added overtones would foul up the tracking / DSP algorithms. Oh well...

[Elantric]

I only ever see these guys playing solid-body electrics which are, somewhat coincidentally, my least favorite kind of guitars. The overwhelming majority of my guitars are archtops, semi-hollow, thin-line, or hollow bodies

FWIW - At the 1:39 mark in demo video below, Gundy Keller uses an Acoustic guitar with SY-300

[Orren Merton]

Looks like you need to use the neck pickup to get the best tracking.

I'm not sure why you'd say that. There's a whole lot of bridge pickup usage on the demos. I can't imagine Alex would choose the bridge pickup if it wasn't capable of capturing his playing well. (Same with Gundy, but that video is very slickly produced, so it's possible that we're not hearing what was played, unlike the live-at-Muskimesse demos).

Orren

[Elantric]

Well I know many pedals ( Octavia, Foxx Tone, Mutron Octave with Green ringer) work best with Neck PU and the Tone rolled down a bit, then go whack out of control when you switch to the Bridge PU.


Ask me again in July 2015 when my SY-300 arrives

[mchad]

Ask me again in July 2015 when my SY-300 arrives

[Rhcole]

Well Fricken' Frack! If this box really is polyphonic, it DESERVES its own section and I'm a gonna' buy one!

[Mrchevy]

This bit from a 70's musical come to mind at this moment

[whippinpost91850]

Interesting take by ingolf, I'll have to check out the thread at the Kemper forum.

[mrmobus2014]

I'm interested in seeing the possibilities of this and look forward to more videos and getting hold of the manual.  I appreciate that Roland have to build to a budget but the idea of building something like this without a rocker pedal built into it seems a bit crazy.  I doubt anyone's going to buy one of these and not also buy a separate rocker.  I also wonder if it will be capable of MIDI out and that it'll just be assignable to switch on or off like on the VG99 / GR55.

Re: polyphony - three oscillators, max three notes I'd have thought?  Synth guys should be able to clarify that.

The tracking does seem very good on it for single note stuff and very clean.  Roland seem very good at nailing all of that stuff down within their boxes, shame it's less filtered when triggering external MIDI sounds.

I'm all for any new box that munges the sound up a bit though so hopefully this'll be good.  And it reminded me of the GR300 as soon as I saw it - better break out those 1980s King Crimson albums ;-)

[Brak(E)man]

Which reminds me of something that occurred to me while watching the videos: I only ever see these guys playing solid-body electrics which are, somewhat coincidentally, my least favorite kind of guitars. The overwhelming majority of my guitars are archtops, semi-hollow, thin-line, or hollow bodies and I like them much, much more than solid-bodies. But it's easy to imagine that the added overtones would foul up the tracking / DSP algorithms. Oh well...

What you're naming there is the biggest problem with the normal pickup to polyphony "conversion"
I've experienced.  A solid body works fine, semi alright, archtop nah and a acoustic really no go.
I also have an additional problem, about half of my guitars are fretless.

[JolietJake]

I'm afraid for me it looks and sounds like it's straight out the 80's.
Fair enough the 13 pin GK stuff is inconvenient to set up, but once you have done it then compared to both the GR-55 and GP-10 this unit seems a step backward in functionality and tone. Also I can't believe that on a £500 unit there is no expression pedal.
Once again though I'll reserve judgement until I can actually try it out.