Fishman Responds to My Request to Build a 13 Pin Box!!

Started by Rhcole, May 30, 2014, 09:39:56 AM

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Rhcole

I'm sure Elantric will move this topic over to the Fishman section, but it is interesting and important enough that I am posting here before he does that.

I wrote Fishman directly and stated my case for building a 13 pin converter box for the Fishman product. I referenced one of our threads on this topic. All I want it to do is take the 13 pin outputs and read them into Fishman's transmitter, which they would build into the box. I think they misunderstood. I welcome your responses, especially from you tech guys, and I will send to them.

<Hi Robert,

I'm not sure how this would work.  Our information leaves the guitar as MIDI.  13 pin devices receive analog audio information.  To have some type of box, and still use our MIDI functionality, you'd need a wireless receiver that took that MIDI and used it to generate an analog note that could go down a 13 pin cable to be translated back to MIDI.  This would obviously be clunky and track very very poorly with your 13 pin device. The only other option would be to put a 13 pin output on our controller, so you could not use our MIDI functionality at all, but just get analog signal from our pickup to your 13 pin devices.  This would end up giving you the same performance as traditional 13 pin devices.

Basically, if you want a 13 pin device, with all its warts, you'd be best off using a traditional analog 13 pin setup on your guitar.  If you want the tracking advantages, wireless properties and more seamless computer connectivi ty of our product, then that is the best option, but there are real technical limitations to what you're suggesting that have nothing to do with whether it would be a good or useful product.>

<<I know you don't offer a 13 pin product

    I'm telling you that you SHOULD. Here is a conversation on the VGuitar forum about using the TP with a 13 pin system:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0
    I am a business consultant by trade and have advised other guitar synth companies. You could have a simple 13 pin box with the guts of your device and a 3 way selector for GK-3, RMC, or Ghost devices. You would need a simple attenuation knob plus the proper voltages for each pickup switchable with the selection. If you were awesome you could have a pass-through jack on the back.

    You wouldn't need to sell your own PU with it and you could piggyback off of Roland's own sales efforts. You would be roundly applauded by the various different user groups and you would open up another market for your system.

    It would be simple. You could make money.
    THINK ABOUT IT.>>

Elantric

After lots of discussions directly with the Fishman team since 2012, I can verify they have zero interest in this type product to adapt Tripleplay to other 13 pin systems.

It falls right behind Fishmans zero interest in designing an IOS Ipad FTP Control app
(Both are huge missed profitable business opportunities IMHO)

Perhaps its Fishman's legal department swaying their decision to not pursue this - after Roland pursued legal action against  Terratec / Axon for their GK-3 Clone:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=500.msg2040#msg2040
 

Meanwhile - for DIY types, Its rather straight forward to design a 6 channel interface board than can take a GK 13 pin input, and feed the internal 8pin JST Hex PU connector inside the FTP Controller

details here for a working Roland GK 13 Pin to FTP Controller adapter
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0

utensil

Also here is a converter cable:

requires: 6 trim pots , 13 pin cable ur willing to cut, either extra connector to fish man board or use the existing one from the fish man mag pickup, +some basic soldering,

details here for a working Roland GK 13 Pin to FTP Controller adapter
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0

If using only RMC piezo's the output seems to be in the right range (at least on my 1 godin guitar) and so can even skip out the trim pots and is basically just a cable conversion.

works with Nylon or magnetic 13 pin systems.

utensil

Quote from: Elantric on May 30, 2014, 09:55:55 AM
After lots of discussions directly with the Fishman team since 2012, I can verify they have zero interest in this type product to adapt Tripleplay to other 13 pin systems.

It falls right behind Fishmans zero interest in designing an IOS Ipad FTP Control app
(Both are huge missed profitable business opportunities IMHO)

Perhaps its Fishman's legal department swaying their decision to not pursue this - after Roland pursued legal action against  Terratec / Axon for their GK-3 Clone:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=500.msg2040#msg2040
 

Meanwhile - for DIY types, Its rather straight forward to design a 6 channel interface board than can take a GK 13 pin input, and feed the internal 8pin JST Hex PU connector inside the FTP Controller

details here for a working Roland GK 13 Pin to FTP Controller adapter
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0

my opinion in terms of what they are missing out on by not providing an official 13 pin adapter:

1) Immediate market of anyone with a 13 pin guitar , who probably selected a guitar with the 13 pin in mind and therefore are more comfortable with midi, synth and moving outside of the traditional pedal/amp paradigm. one of the hurdles Fishman faces with the triple play is educating guitarists of unknown and mixed midi experience. With the 13 pin crowd , they know the probable level. An unfortunate missed opportunity. I suppose they could counter this by viewing it as everyone in this market segment would buy an FTP anyway.

2) Mounting.On my Strats , the triple play won't fit under the strings with the included brackets so I have to directly stick it using tape, on my les pauls the mounting ring doesn't fit between the bridge and pickup. This seems odd since they are probably the most common guitars in circulation. I prefer the 13 pin system as a way to avoid dealing with mounting etc. Related to this is that I can easily move the triple play to any of 4 guitars. without having to permanently leave mounting brackets on the tops (which don't fit for me anyway)

3) Ability to work with Nylon string guitars!!! , This seems like a big one to miss, While I'm mostly an electric player I do play a nylon a lot too. Classical guitarists, composers etc all would have great use for the triple play and the only way is with Piezo's and again, without an internal install the 13 pin is already mildly established. Even if Fishman are willing to forgo the prior points, nylon string players are hardly niche and involve a very different style. e.g using tremolo rapid finger picking is not at something comfortable on a steel string but my FTP on the godin Nylon is able to pickup all the separate string plucks. This is something I can't play on a steel string guitar , I wanted to score it, FTP can track it but they have provided no official way to do it. I assume they will eventually release a Godin nylon triple play.

Don't get me wrong though I love the FTP, I have 3 of them and am planning to get another to mod as an internal fit.




Rhcole

Here is Fishman's final word on this:

"It isn't something we're looking at now, but I'm glad I understand the product idea.  Part of your question referred to guitars with piezo and 13 pin output.  There really isn't any savings on these guitars (if they are steel string) from just putting on our wireless rig, using the 13 pin output from the piezos if you want that functionality and using our pickup for MIDI if you like that.  I get our pickup is a tough fit, but it is what it is.  We've built it so it can fit well on a lot of guitars without mods, and others with some futzing.  Economies of scale being what they are, it is hard to make independent solutions for a lot of different installations, without sending the cost of the product through the roof for the average consumer.  Otherwise, at least for the foreseeable future, you're in for a construction project like you've shown in your photos (I love that kind of thing, by the way, confirmed card carrying nerd that I am.)  I'm really glad you like our functionality for MIDI control (you're right, it is SO much better than what was previously available).  Sorry it isn't the be all and end all of what you need.  If you do cobble together your dream system, I'd love to post a picture of your results on my blog."

musicman65

So in other words...they are addressing the non-13 pin market. I'm out...no FTP for me.