Fractal Axe-FX II

Started by Virtual Tone, February 21, 2008, 11:33:03 AM

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vanceg

Axe FX is VERY impressive.  I don't touch it if it aint Hexaphonic anymore.  I LOVE the ability to do weird tunings, 12 string effects, ethnic instruments, impossible instruments.... all available on the (much less expensive) VG-99.   If AXE FX Hex version is ever released, I might get one.

My 2 cents.

Vance

Quote from:  aliensporebomb on May 09, 2011, 10:03:29 AM
I wonder how many AxeFX have been sold versus VG-99?  I'd say more AxeFX since you don't need a hexaphonic pickup to drive it.

However, I'm pretty sure you can't create a lot of the VG sounds on the AxeFX.

I would like to hear demos of what this thing sounds like personally.

And yes, it would be nice to get a VG-99 EX update or something.

jkstraw

#51
My thoughts - damn I want one!  My ultra is up on kijiji as I type this.  Sold my VG-99 awhile ago to finance my GR-55 purchase - but still spend more time playing through the AxeFX ultra (more time tweaking then playing through the GR-55) than anything else.  The 2x resolution on Cab IR's is what really has me interested.  The 60 sec looper and USB connectivity put it over the top.

MCK

Axe-FX & VG99 are different beasts. Both very respectable on their own. Comparing the two is a typical case of comparing apples to oranges IMHO. The one thing that REALLY REALLY impress me to no end though on the Axe-FX is the frequent firmware updates with changes & improvements aimed at meeting customer feedback. Amazing how a small company with much less resources can lead innovation while Roland rests on its laurels.

aliensporebomb

But AxeFX focuses on just the AxeFX variants while Roland has the VGuitar, VDrums, VPiano, VAccordion, the GR guitar synthesizers, tons of keyboard synthesizers, lots of products for the educational market (Edirol) and worship applications among other products like their Cakewalk efforts as well as things such as plotters and whatnot.

Large company, very divided focus. 

That being said, my next album is going to be recorded solely on the VG-99 (it's out for mastering now).  I'm going to be giving Simeon Harris a run for his money (he does similar music to myself but he uses guitar + AxeFX + Expert Loopers Augustus Loop and I use a VG-99 in place of an AxeFX).

And I've got even more ideas for VG-99 sounds that have never been heard before.  I've got a 20 minute MP3 demo I need to carve up which is just sound experiments trying to come up with different sounds and patches for ambient music.

And don't forget there are the rock sounds too, I need to do one for that.  I'm way behind on patch submissions here
lately.  Found some really odd ones and some useful ones.

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

onemoreguitar

You can always use both.  That's what I do.  Can't wait for the AFXII release.  I'll be buying one for sure.  Just trying to decide wether to sell my Ultra to finance the II or keep it for a backup.  I still love my VG, but my Ultra easily trumps it when it comes to amps and effects.  I know Bill Rupert doesn't agree, but he is definitely in a serious minority when it comes to pro players.  Cliff reckons he has the amps spot on in the II.  They're already kick ass so I can't wait.  Add that with the new larger cab IRs and it should be pretty awesome.  I'd like to think it will be the end of my GAS, but I know better.

Simeon has some great AFX sounds.  He has a great understanding of how to build ambient sounds.  It's really easy for ambient sounds to start sounding all the same.  I reckon his greatest strength is the amount of variation he gets.

acousticglue

For us po folks the AXE gets the axe and VG99 (no updating) is a very iffy choice I made. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't have went with TonelabLE

A2theT

#56
 TonelabLE isn't even in the same category as a VG-99 but I guess either is the AxeFX.  Some people (myself included) can never be content with their rigs.  Maybe this is really a psychological avenue to channel any weakness in our performance or playing ability. lol.  Well, I'd love one of these but for a hobbyist, I have taken the $2199 that the Axe-FX II costs and have used that money to seriously upgrade my studio and the "fun/entertainment" value of it.   I recently upgraded my DAW to an i7 2600 SandyBridge, purchased an Alesis USB Studio Drum Kit, double kick pedal, throne, a Shure Super Deluxe 55 Mic, a GR-55, a US-20 and a bunch of other items that totaled $1800 shipping included.  To me, it was just more bang for the buck at this point and I still have money left over.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Elantric

#57
QuoteTonelabLE isn't even in the same category as a VG-99 b


I've been playing guitar since 1966, and my favorite Real Amps are my 1966 Vox AC30 Top Boost, 1970 Fender Vibrolux Reverb, 1988 Fender "The Twin" (red knob), 2010 Bogner Alchemist. I'm not into metal - (despite once being in a band with Bobby Blotzer of Ratt) My idea of good guitar tone is Mark Knoffler, Mike Campbell, Buddy Miller, Daniel Lanois, Jeff Beck, Sonny Landreth, Ry Cooder.


My opinion - I have never tried a Axe-FX, but of the gear I have, the following is my own list of best Guitar Amp Modeling hardware devices with best Touch response, playing dynamics and "play feel" I own- (best to worst).(May 2011)

1)Vox Tonelab LE (great box - but bad pedal implementation)
2) Vox Tonelab SE (best pedal control and MIDI controller, but lacks the final post cab sim EQ that the Tonelab LE has.
3) Line6 POD HD500 (pretty decent all around unit)
4) Roland VG-99 (hex processing rules, but the Amps can often lack character and dynamics compared with above units)
5) Line6 Vetta (Should be "the last amp  / FX rig you will ever need" . . . . )
6) Korg Pandora PX5DSE
7) GR-55 (COSM Amp modeling section is missing quite alot of the expected features you have in the VG-99)
8 ) Line6 POD XT Live ( has all the model packs)
9) Line6 POD 2.0 (original bean with last firmware update chip)
10) Zoom 9030 (made lots of demos with nothing more than this and a Tascam 8 track cassette)
11) Digitech GSP-2101 with PPC-210
Lately in my old age, I play most gigs with either a Roland Cube 80XL ( set on "Blackface"{Fender}), or a Roland AC-60 ( Acoustic gigs are becoming the bulk of my live shows - playing a custom National ResoRocket with Bigsby) 




Units I have owned and Sold

Digitech GNX-4
Zoom G9.2tt


A2theT

#58
See, its all very personal and everyone's taste is different.

I agree with Elantric's point #4 and if I had no HEX/GK, I would probably own an Axe-Fx or if on a budget I'd have the Digitech GSP1101.
I still think that the VG and GR shouldn't be in the same category as any of these other processors but if you're solely comparing amp models then I'd say its a fair comparison.

Line6 lacks pitch and harmony processing which I need.

I have previously sold my RP-1000, X3Live, XTLive, GNX3000, GNX-3, and GSP-2101 Artist.

If I was to go back to any of the units, it would be the Digitech GNX3000.

The units I have owned the longest were the GSP-2101 and the VG-99.

For a newbie, the GNX3000 can be had for a wicked price used.  I've seen them under $200 and with the MFX Models CD you are getting a huge bang for the buck.
I almost re-bought one and if I found one for $125 or so I'd probably pull the trigger.

But I digress, I would love to be able to sit down and try out an Axe-FX II but no local sales so it makes it impossible.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

aliensporebomb

Quote from:  onemoreguitar on May 11, 2011, 02:01:53 AM
You can always use both.  That's what I do.  Can't wait for the AFXII release.  I'll be buying one for sure.  Just trying to decide wether to sell my Ultra to finance the II or keep it for a backup.  I still love my VG, but my Ultra easily trumps it when it comes to amps and effects.  I know Bill Rupert doesn't agree, but he is definitely in a serious minority when it comes to pro players.  Cliff reckons he has the amps spot on in the II.  They're already kick ass so I can't wait.  Add that with the new larger cab IRs and it should be pretty awesome.  I'd like to think it will be the end of my GAS, but I know better.

Simeon has some great AFX sounds.  He has a great understanding of how to build ambient sounds.  It's really easy for ambient sounds to start sounding all the same.  I reckon his greatest strength is the amount of variation he gets.

Bill definetely has an edge over 98% of those out there with the VG as far as his programming capability.  Not only does he have the ear,
he has the patience, the technical ability to understand the gear and he's got the musical chops to put it together. 

If I had unlimited money I'd have ALL of this stuff and just go crazy with it but my funds only permit one "wonder toy" a decade it seems.
I'm hoping to change that.   

I agree with your assessment of Simeon's programming and variation: I didn't really know of him until after I was dabbling with the VG and
was shocked at how similar my approach is to his...

Honestly, my own music is starting to be a Minnesota-based VG-99 based version of what Simeon does over in the UK - it's kind of scary in a
way since I didn't turn out that way - I still say my main music focus is the instrumental prog rock with synths and drums and basses too. 

Getting lots of variation on the VG is both easy and hard in some ways.  I still feel I'm just getting going with this so it's an evolving process.
And getting smooth and non-garish timeless ambient sounds on the VG is hard because it's really easy to get "obvious" sounds that will get dated quickly.

I still am really happy with my own analog setup - I get the idea if I had an AxeFX I might be too diluted.  If I focus on the VG like Bill has
eventually all the secrets will come out - I look back at my experience with the Roland R-5 as I made that box do stuff Roland said it could
not do! 


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

drjoness2001

I checked out the demos of the Axe-FX, and they also sounded very good, but if I had to choose between the VG-99 and the Axe-FX, I would undoubtedly choose the VG-99.

The VG-99 just does so much more. It seems the Fractal folks are arguing for the high resolution accuracy of their amp and cab models. But, I'm not into the whole guitar synth thing for the accuracy of a model, I'm more interested in hearing new sounds, and moving music in new directions. And the VG-99 really excels at this. A lot of manufacturers claim, like Fractal does, that their product is so awesome that the pro users solely rely on their product for their sound. Then I read an article in Guitar Player on these players and see a familiar back line with the same gear we've all seen a million times.

I was really impressed when Vernon Reid did the Experience Hendrix tour relying primarily on the VG-99. Also, I would not be surprised if 10x as many VG-99s have been sold as the Fractal units. Roland can rely on the really large user base of people who already own a GK equipped guitar, and like using Roland gear. Plus I'm pretty sure Roland has superior product distribution and sales network.

acousticglue

Well don't get me wrong I like the synth capabilities of the VG99. I just, most of the time, need guitar tones. It's nice to mix in synth and see what you get. I owned the POD XT Pro and got rid of it. If I purchase another pedal for the money it will be between the Tonelab and 11Rack. The 11Rack doesn't have the plugin available as VST though, from what I hear. I use Sawstudio on recording, not ProTools.

A2theT

HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

germanicus

Id like to get one possibly in the future, but Line 6 and Roland sort of have me trapped with the hex processing aspect. This is due to the capacity to explore so many different tunings. Its to the point where I cant play a gig with my main group without either a variax or a vg99/gr55 rig as I consistently use about 5 different tunings in our average set. Some of these tunings would simply not be practical at all to tune to on the spot and would require their own guitars. A fractal would probably go very well with a JTV but im pretty pleased with the HD500 right now (including yesterdays update which is fantastic).

I think Ive spent waaaaaayyyyyyy too much time screwing around with new gear and creating new patches and sounds and need to just force myself to finish off a few albums worth of material with the gear I already have. Theres always going to be something 'new' and 'groundbreaking'.

Gear has become a distraction to actually making music  :'(
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

DF400

Over the last 35 years, I have had a variety of amps, including Marshall, Fender, Peavy and many more. I have also had many Roland products (although the last guitar modeling unit I owned was the VG-88). I also own the Axe-FX Ultra.

All I can say is that the beauty of this is that all these units offer different options and sounds (whether it be emulating other amps or creating new sounds). The bottom line is that it is great that we have the choice based on our subjective ear.

I really like the Axe-FX, not just because it creates that tones that appeal to me but also because I play in a cover band and this thing can come very close to faithful recreations of some classic tones. Also, the effects alone in the Axe-FX are in a class by themselves.

Now, I have also used both the GR-55 COSM sounds and combine them with the AXE-FX for some awesome sounds that really fill the stage.

I feel very fortunate to live in a time when we can have these discussions and choices!

treyd

I have the Axe-FX Ultra and the MFC-101 Foot pedal.  The Axe-FX is NOT like anything ever made before (except, duh, it does the same thing...just way better).  It truly is in a league of it's own for all the reasons y'all touched on.  Nothing sounds better, period.  The Axe-FX II, which I'm on the waiting list for, can only be better.  I am one of those guys I read about so many times that actually started selling all of my boutique pedals and tube amps.  Most tube amp nuts like me swear off digital fx and especially solid state amps, but once many of us tried the Axe-Fx, there was no going back. 

.....BUT.....

What it doesn't do, that Roland products can achieve, is the instrument emulation, tunings, midi sounds/digital synth sounds, freeze, etc., etc.. 

I'm currently looking to add either a VG-99, GR-55, or a Line 6 JTV Variax.  Thoughts??


vanceg

Yeah - I have a thought: If the Axe-FX folks put their mind to it and made a hex version, they could wipe the entire market clean. 

THEY might actually be able to open the entire hex processing world up to "normal" guitar players who were previously afraid to consider a hex pickup.

TheGuitarPlayer

If Fractal Audio made a hex version of the Axe-FX, I would buy it almost irrespective of the price. I'm hugely impressed by the work that they put into there product with updates over many years, and obviously the sound quality speaks for itself.

I'd really love to buy  an Axe-FX II as it stands now and either use it standalone, or with my VG-99 (guitar processing only) feeding into it. As it stands though, after having bought a couple of nice guitars this year already, I can't justify any more gear for a while.

Also, I'm still learning things about the VG-99, even though I've owned it for a few years.  Every time I go back and decide I want to tweak my patches and push for better sound, I learn something new and interesting. For the moment I guess, I'm content experimenting with what I have.

A2theT

#68
I really like the UI of the VG.  I haven't tried the AXE-FX but if its anything like my old Digitech GSP-2101 then I won't be too enamored with it.
The VG has so many fantastic controllers available to it.  From the GK pickup itself to the FC-300 and all the controllers on the VG console.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

nosaintnick

A buddy of mine has an AFX Ultra and we recently compared it to my VG-99. We didn't have too much time so we're getting together soon to really dig into each one. From the first session though I was surprised at the 99's ability to hold its own on the modeling side of things. I was able to get pretty close to many of the Axe presets. Where the difference lies is speaker feel. If you add any verb to the mix the 99 kinda falls flat.

The plan for the next session is to record samples of each one and take an overall more disciplined approach.

aliensporebomb

#70
Eagerly awaiting the result.  I've sort of found a way to "fudge" the feel of the system by running the GK3 volume about one half the way up on distorted guitar patches and then I run with the feedbacker at a medium volume level while recording in the studio.  When I want to get more response I crank the volume up further and the feedbacker tends to behave much like real feedback on a tube amp.  It's not 100% of the feel of a real tube amp but it's pretty close and the sound is pretty much not distinguishable from a real one except by "golden ears" or the like.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

A2theT

FractalAudio has recently increased the price of the AxeFx II to $2500 (most likely due to demand and the fact that they're sold out).  You can buy A LOT of gear for that amount of jack.  I don't see myself adding this piece of gear to my arsenol any time soon....   :'( 

IMO, the company needs to be bought out by a big player who can inject money to help lower the cost of production which would in turn, drive sales.  I can't see their books but doesn't it make sense in our capitalist world to take a fantastic product and maximize revenues?   Price is just too high and there always appears to be a waiting list.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

TheGuitarPlayer

Yeah, but if a big company bought them out, the excellent product support they give would probably lessen over time. High end gear costs good money, and with the ongoing product updates you get when buying an Amp-FX, I think its asking price is not unreasonable.

gumtown

The old game of "supply and demand", the oil producers play the same game, limit supply and that forces the prices up.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Now_And_Then

Quote from: A to the T on September 07, 2011, 01:27:24 PM
FractalAudio has recently increased the price of the AxeFx II to $2500 (most likely due to demand and the fact that they're sold out).  You can buy A LOT of gear for that amount of jack.  I don't see myself adding this piece of gear to my arsenol any time soon....   :'( 

IMO, the company needs to be bought out by a big player who can inject money to help lower the cost of production which would in turn, drive sales.  I can't see their books but doesn't it make sense in our capitalist world to take a fantastic product and maximize revenues?   Price is just too high and there always appears to be a waiting list.

A few thoughts here.

If I am not mistaken, while the list price has indeed increased to $2599.95 *but* if you go on the waiting list, you will receive a promo code that will let you purchase the unit for $2199. See http://shop.fractalaudio.com/Axe_Fx_II_Preamp_Effects_Processor_p/fas004.htm for details. This would indicate that Fractal is charging an "early-adopters" premium to those who are willing to pay it. I personally find nothing wrong with this policy.

It would be possible for Fractal to lower the cost of the unit, without being bought out by a "big player". I can not find the post now, but seem to recall reading on their forum that the production methods chosen by Fractal are not the cheapest possible. Who would benefit if, for example, Line 6 bought Fractal and began producing the AXE-FX II in China, to the same standards and level of quality as they did with, what was that, the X3 Live? I am very wary of Line 6 quality, but would have no qualms on that score with any Fractal product.

Given that the AXE-FX II would be expensive no matter how cheaply it is produced, it is probably just as well that they did not cut corners with the manufacturing and went for higher build quality at the expense of a higher retail price. I would find a cheaply built and unreliable $1500 box rather less appealing than a well-made $2100 box. You'd probably agree with me, I'd wager. Actually, now that I think about it, I would not even consider buying a cheaply built and unreliable $1500 box.

One last thought: you said "I can't see their books but doesn't it make sense in our capitalist world to take a fantastic product and maximize revenues?" He does not seem to want to maximize revenue, and since he owns the capital he can decide what to do with it. In this case he has decided to forego profit- and/or sales maximization, preferring to offer (what seems to me, never having used one to be) a first-rate and well-constructed product.

Honestly I would be happy if Roland had a bit of this attitude, instead of what seems to be their constant corner-cutting. (I.e. no subsonic filter in the VG-99 and possibly - probably - no more updates for it, to mention just two corners that were cut. The GR-55 is much worse in this regard, consisting almost exclusively of cut corners, as far as I am concerned.)

However, I have to agree with your statement "You can buy A LOT of gear for that amount of jack." I am considering purchasing it, but I really know that I need to better understand and learn how to better use my VG-99, before I spend the money for the AXE-FX II. (And in my case, I do not need to have yet another complex and difficult-to-master piece of kit distracting me from learning the other complex and difficult-to-master pieces of kit which I already have and which require study.)