VGuitar Forums

Fishman Tripleplay Guitar to MIDI => TriplePlay Examples => Topic started by: utensil on April 21, 2013, 01:29:52 PM

Title: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on April 21, 2013, 01:29:52 PM
Got my FTP 4 days ago and I have to say it's fantastic. besides a few gripes with the mounting (doesn't fit on my strat with any of the brackets and can't fit on any of my LP's due to the pickup ring which I believe is a pretty common issue).

Anyway besides the above it is truly revolutionary so I immediately ordered a second and started tinkering with this because I really don't like mounting mechanism.  I have 3 guitars with Graphtech piezo's and preamps.

At first I hooked the piezo's directly to the triple play circuit, the results: the signal on the 2 bass strings was too weak. It still worked but even with the sensitivity all the way up to 16, the bar would only go about 40%, this didn't seem acceptable.

So next I hooked it via the 13 pin jack using a battery to power the pre-amp, results: Signal was now too high, I turned down sensitivities to 1 and still everything was getting in the red. As a last resort before giving up I switched the Traktion Switch (on the graphtech 13 pin jack) to the axon position, this seemed to cut the output a bit and bring everything more into range.

So far it seems pretty usable. I haven't done a side by side comparison, when I get the second unit in a few days I'll put both on the same guitar and see how they compare. Ideally if it ends up working , it would be really useful so I can easily switch the same unit between any of the guitars without any mounting etc.

Just thought I'd post this in case anyone else has been trying some mods.



Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: thebrushwithin on April 21, 2013, 02:02:57 PM
Wow! I could not pull anything like this off, but I hope you find a way, cause it will then allow you to track while a sustain mechanism is engaged. Piezos track the best anyway, in my experience.
Great work, and good luck!!!
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 21, 2013, 02:19:08 PM
the tracking seems as good as with the original pickup (not really much room to improve but not had enough time to really test properly) but since the signal from the piezo's is either too weak (without the pre-amp, something to do with impedance but I don't really know the electronics stuff ) or a bit too strong with the preamp(it doesn't over load but at very soft picks it is still above 50%) I'm concerned about the dynamic range, I think that the difference between the loudest and softest notes with the piezo is more restricted.

I'm hoping to get my second unit and plug this to the 13 pin jack and also mount the pickup and compare the midi from the exact same playing. I'll be happy if It's 90% as good as with the original pickup as thats still 1000% better than any of the previous midi solutions I've tried and it can be easily moved.
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: musicman65 on April 21, 2013, 08:30:10 PM
Utensil,

great work! I'm glad to see the signal is slightly too hot. Its easier to attenuate then boost!

I wonder if paralleling (splitting) the 13 pin output signal into a VG/GR input device and the FTP would reduce the signal....it should attenuate it since the FTP's input impedance would be in parallel with the VG/GR circuit. If that worked, I'd split the signal offboard the guitar and keep using all my 13pin guitars with no mods and better midi triggering. Best of both worlds except the wireless....to me, better tracking and keeping my VG99/KPA setup is the ultimate.

                  |---->VG/GR
GK 13 pin---|
                  |---->FTP

bd
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 21, 2013, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: musicman65 on April 21, 2013, 08:30:10 PM
I wonder if paralleling (splitting) the 13 pin output signal into a VG/GR input device and the FTP would reduce the signal...

I have a GR-55 I could try splitting it with but can't say how it would work without trying it cause It's really beyond my very basic understand of this stuff. I will try it to make a splitter to try it.

But overall What I had in mind was to be able to plug the FTP via 13 pin so I can easily move it from guitar to guitar without any mounting issues etc. If I could also get it to work with the GR-55 simultaneously it would be great but I would want to be able to use the FTP on it's own too since I see it as being my main piece of gear now.

Any other way I can attenuate the signal, Is there any small circuit available with multiple attenuators. I was thinking I could get some kind of volume control circuit used in 5.1 or 7.1 surround systems and use it control the overall reduction in level. Any idea if this would work?
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: Elantric on April 22, 2013, 08:08:07 AM
For best results for mag Hex PU systems use one hex PU


                           |---->GK-3 -> 13pin
One hex PU 8 pin---|
                           |---->FTP controller > wireless


If its a piezo based system (RMC, Graphtech)

                  |---->VG/GR
GK 13 pin---|
                  |---->13pin in >Custom Adapter with Passive Attenuator & 8pin Out > FTP Controller

Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 22, 2013, 10:22:45 AM
Quote from: Elantric on April 22, 2013, 08:08:07 AM
For best results for mag Hex PU systems use one hex PU


                           |---->GK-3 -> 13pin
One hex PU 8 pin---|
                           |---->FTP controller > wireless


If its a piezo based system (RMC, Graphtech)

                  |---->VG/GR
GK 13 pin---|
                  |---->13pin in >Custom Adapter with Passive Attenuator & 8pin Out > FTP Controller

For Piezo based which passive attenuator would work, I've been trying it without the attenuator(s) and the 2 bass strings are just too hot so it's giving a lots of false notes

Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: Elantric on April 22, 2013, 10:24:37 AM
Quote
For Piezo based which passive attenuator would work, I've been trying it without the attenuator(s) and the 2 bass strings are just too hot so it's giving a lots of false notes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuator_%28electronics%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuator_%28electronics%29)
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 22, 2013, 10:59:53 AM
Most of it makes sense to me but I don't think a diy 6 channel attenuator (made by me) would be all that portable. Was hoping to buy some kind of small circuit board or a dual channel ones , the goal to keep it very small , do these exist? if so any suggestions for online stores?
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: admin on April 22, 2013, 11:06:57 AM
Pure DIY

Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: musicman65 on April 22, 2013, 03:24:58 PM
A miniature trim pot makes a great passive attenuator. Six mounted on a tiny circuit board would allow each string to be adjusted perfectly. I've seen them as small as maybe 4mm x 8mm with a tiny screw to adjust. They are quite common.

bd


Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: musicman65 on April 22, 2013, 03:36:56 PM
Elantric,

I agree with your diagram 100%....but, for me, I would like to keep my array of GK enabled axes unmolested.

The 13 pin GK output is buffered and may be way to hot. I am not sure what the gain is on the GK circuit, any idea? Or is it primarily a current follower (gain of ~1) that lowers the impedance?

The method you show for Piezo with an attenuator board/splitter would be better for me since I want to retain my hardware modeller and VG stuff.

I would lose the FTP onboard controls but, in hardware mode, would I need those buttons for real time adjustments? Can midi commands recall settings in the FTP? Maybe I should wait for a floor controller model.....

bd
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: Elantric on April 22, 2013, 04:40:24 PM
Quote
The 13 pin GK output is buffered and may be way to hot. I am not sure what the gain is on the GK circuit, any idea?

Search is your friend

(click the attachments here)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281)
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: Elantric on April 22, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
But I would prefer a method where I could feed the 13 pin gear along with the wireless MIDI from FTP.

                           |---->GK-3 -> 13pin
One hex PU 8 pin---|
                           |---->FTP controller > wireless MIDI

and the "Y" Adapter could be very straight forward.

Mount one hex PU of choice( FTP, GK-3, GK-2A, G1D, PU100, AIX-101) Let the stock Hex PU Cable be the input to the Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" to feed two targets.

On this  Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" there MUST be 12 "coupling capacitors": 
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on FTP Controller.
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on the GK3 preamp target.
The 12 Capacitors are required to prevent DC voltage interference and offsets between the two different systems.
Small Surface Mount caps are available, but must be of adequate capacity to pass the low fundamental frequencies of the Guitar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/w064p7zb5/GK3_PUP8_POSPlug_zpsb3e3aaf9.jpg)



Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: musicman65 on April 22, 2013, 06:25:32 PM
Elantric,

thanks for the link. The NJM2068V op amps look like they have an inverted gain of 12.6 in the GK preamp circuit. I was was hoping for unity gain. This means a splitter would need attenuation down to 8% to get back to the same output as the raw GK pickup if interfacing to the FTP on the other end of the GK cable.

I like your method but $399 per guitar has me looking for a way to leave the FTP in place while switching guitars.

Would you mount the FTP controller inside your guitar making it dedicated to that Axe or make an external pigtail so you can move the wart?

Btw, with proper sizing, the coupling caps could help reduce false triggers from lower frequencies since the caps will roll off lows at 3db per octave...unless you want more by making a true filter with extra components...FTP may handle this already.

bd
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 22, 2013, 10:17:02 PM
Quote from: musicman65 on April 22, 2013, 03:24:58 PM
A miniature trim pot makes a great passive attenuator. Six mounted on a tiny circuit board would allow each string to be adjusted perfectly. I've seen them as small as maybe 4mm x 8mm with a tiny screw to adjust. They are quite common.

bd

Thanks!, I didn't know what these were called, I was googling mini pots, micro volume control, passive attenuator and never found the right term. It's so often that I am actually looking for the right name to search for. Anyway this is pretty much what I had in mind as I can keep it small even by doing myself. Any suggestion for what value trimpot to try. Would a 10k trimpot sound suitable. With my limited understanding a higher value may be need but 10k seem really easy to find so curious if these may work.



Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: musicman65 on April 22, 2013, 11:02:57 PM
Hard to say for sure without knowing the input impedance of the FTP preamp. If you are attenuating the 13 pin out signals then yes, 10k should work. Elantrics point about using a coupling cap per circuit to isolate the GK's +/-7vdc from the FTP's DC supply is important as well.

bd
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 23, 2013, 03:43:50 AM
I think unlike many others I'm not too interested in both systems working simultaneously (a little over my electronic skills). I would be happy if the FTP worked with my guitars with 13 pin internal installations (I'd mount the FTP on a strap).Right now, I don't know if the battery that's driving the hexpander pre-amp is interfering with the FTP but it seems to work *Almost* as well as with the FTP mag pickup. could it screw up the FTP battery or controller?

The issue is too many accidental note triggers from the low E and A strings .(it's still miles ahead of the GR-55 and Axon in terms of usability, If I hadn't experienced the proper FTP performance I would be happy with it).

I would ideally like to lower the output of the 6 pins to the FTP so I can reduce it from there and then set the FTP sensitivities to midrange rather than all the way down as present.

I picked up 6 10K trimpots (hard to find where I live, had to dig through 5 trashbins of various misc components.). If I get a chance today evening I'll try and rig it up and see if it's an improvement. I also got my second FTP today so I can mount both systems on the same guitar and record the same part to different tracks and compare. I don't think it's will improve on the original's performance as I think a lot of brainpower went into optimizing with the mag output which is probably why even the Godin Session Custom doesn't use piezo's.







Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: thebrushwithin on April 23, 2013, 05:26:55 AM
If memory serves me, I thought the Graphtec system already has 6 trim pots on the hex pander board, but I may be mistaken.
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 23, 2013, 07:45:11 AM
The graphtech hexpanders I have , only have the pins for the various strings, switches and volume pot. I checked the manual and the volume pot seems to send a control volume signal to receiver rather than reducing the signal from the output. I think the acoustiphonic chip which optionally accompanies the pre-amp has a trim control but I think that is only for summed output and either way not required for the 13 pin functionality so I never got it.

Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: Elantric on April 23, 2013, 09:15:45 AM
QuoteI think unlike many others I'm not too interested in both systems working simultaneously (a little over my electronic skills). I would be happy if the FTP worked with my guitars with 13 pin internal installations (I'd mount the FTP on a strap).Right now, I don't know if the battery that's driving the hexpander pre-amp is interfering with the FTP but it seems to work *Almost* as well as with the FTP mag pickup. could it screw up the FTP battery or controller?

The issue is too many accidental note triggers from the low E and A strings .(it's still miles ahead of the GR-55 and Axon in terms of usability, If I hadn't experienced the proper FTP performance I would be happy with it).

I would ideally like to lower the output of the 6 pins to the FTP so I can reduce it from there and then set the FTP sensitivities to midrange rather than all the way down as present.

I picked up 6 10K trimpots (hard to find where I live, had to dig through 5 trashbins of various misc components.). If I get a chance today evening I'll try and rig it up and see if it's an improvement. I also got my second FTP today so I can mount both systems on the same guitar and record the same part to different tracks and compare. I don't think it's will improve on the original's performance as I think a lot of brainpower went into optimizing with the mag output which is probably why even the Godin Session Custom doesn't use piezo's.



If you are not sure of what you are doing in electronics, be prepared for damage or smoke.

Piezo pickup saddles are very high impedance.
If you look around, some Piezo PU models may actually work without a preamp, but use a 10 Megohm Volume pot, thus an Active Piezo preamp is employed.

Preamps designed for Magnetics PU's (like the FTP) are not compatible with Piezo PU's. A separate Active Piezo Preamp is required.


Roland uses a bi-polar +7V and -7Volt power rails for audio signals to swing above and below the Analog Ground Reference.
Be aware that 90% of the other Guitar preamps you encounter will be run from a single +9V battery and employ a "Virtual Ground" which measures +4.5V DC Offset from Ground

Its these offset voltages on the third party preamps which must be blocked by coupling capacitors.

   

Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 23, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
Yep you're right, I've burned out a few things already (one hexpander was particular regretful), Most elementary mistakes which I wish I would have taken some time to read up on (I usually try to now).This forum is a real strong starting point for me to find things to read up on in regards to electronics. I really have had a lot of enjoyable projects as a result.

I was really looking forward to the FTP. My plan was to put piezo's and hex magnetic pickups on all my guitars and have them output to a 15 pin jack (VGA) so that any future guitar equipment would be easily attached/swapped. So all pre-amps etc would be outside of the guitars and shared. I think this would make the most sense as really the guitar is really just an interface and should be kept as general as possible with just the sensors in it, the processing etc should be external.

Of course now I actually have the FTP and I would be satisfied to just have it work via the 13 pin as that covers my needs.

I also think so far results today are encouraging. I didn't have time to rig up all six 10 k trimpots but I did just the problematic low E string and it's now very controllable and tracks excellently ( I have the FTP software sensitivity set to 7) and the dynamic range is as good as the magnetic.

I'm going to try and finish it tomorrow and do a final test and will report back.

Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: Elantric on April 23, 2013, 03:23:07 PM
QuoteI was really looking forward to the FTP. My plan was to put piezo's and hex magnetic pickups on all my guitars and have them output to a 15 pin jack (VGA) so that any future guitar equipment would be easily attached/swapped. So all pre-amps etc would be outside of the guitars and shared.

Great idea, but in practice only applicable to a New age'r who enjoys clean Acoustic type tones at low volume or at home, and never uses any high gain tones in the realm of heavy Rock , Blues, Metal, etc using these same Hex pickups


Been there done that - if you employ a cable longer than 1 meter (approx 3 feet) between your passive non buffered Hex PU (Mag or Piezo) to feed a remote box with GK-3 Pre-amp, Variax Board, or FTP Controller - expect huge noise and feedback problems as soon as you engage a heavy Metal High gain patch on a GR-55 or VG-99.

Add a live show with added EMF Noise from stage lighting dimmers, or Ice Machine -  forget it!

There is a valid engineering reason why Active preamps on board the guitar are preferred. The sooner you can convert a high impedance source to Low impedance, the better things get to drive longer cables runs with more immunity to background EMF sources and noise. Make it differential balanced with 0.775Vrms  = +4db referenced = total pro.


Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: musicman65 on April 23, 2013, 05:14:53 PM
Yes....low impedance, higher current output like the GK circuit is the key to noise immunity as Elantric mentioned. This is why having a splitter with attenuation on the other end of the GK cable won't have the noise issues and give you the signal you want.

bd
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on April 24, 2013, 03:03:06 PM
Ok so rigged up all 6 trimpots (it aint pretty but it functions correctly, pic attached). So one triple play via 13 pin with battery and trimpots and second triple play directly on same guitar. Verdict: Can't seem to get the same performance from the piezo path.It's 90% there but still missing something.

All the sensitivities are in the right range (I have the FTP app set to midrange for all the strings). False notes are now in control but I think it's the release and the dynamics that is just much better with the original magnetic pickup. It's that final 10% that really makes me forget I'm playing synth. It's like the volume curve matches the acoustics of unamplified guitar much more closely when using the original setup

Anyway I'm kinda out of ideas of how to improve this any further as I'm sure there's ways I could mess with the frequency curve to approximate the magnetic (which I assume is optimal), but now I'm leaning in another direction.

I'm thinking to mount magnetic pickups on the 3 guitars and have a common output to the FTP controller. Since I'd mount the controller on the strap I think that the issues with interference and cable length should be minimized.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F832016%2F1458779573_1504092551_photo.JPG&hash=537c1f4739dfa274cc3591cf85c95afe72782c90)
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: abhijitnath on August 26, 2013, 08:52:10 AM
Did anyone else have a go at this? Any luck at all with piezos triggering FTP with dynamic range intact?
Title: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on March 17, 2014, 10:09:42 PM
This post and was originally in a separate thread and thankfully Elantric correctly moved here:

I recently acquired a 7 string Godin Grand Concert Nylon String with Synth Access, I love playing it so much I wanted to use the Triple Play with it and since it won't work with magnetic pickups,  it resurrected my need to be able to plug in the FTP to the 13 pin port.

After a few experiments , heres an update on connecting various piezo system outputs directly into the FTP which may be useful to someone else trying it:

1) Graphtech Piezo's directly into the FTP are too weak a signal and doesn't register much in the FTP app

2) Graphtech 13 pin output is from their powered pre-amp is too strong requiring attenuation with trimpots.

3) The output from the Godin's 13 pin UNPOWERED RMC polydrive is in the right range and can be plugged directly into the triple play.THIS IS GREAT NEWS!! a direct 13 pin to FTP adapter can be made and is just a matter of connecting wires and requires no additional batteries , trimpots etc.

4) Output from the Godin's powered RMC polydrive is similar to the Graphtech and too strong requiring trimpots

So removing the original FTP magnetic pickup, the original connecter needs to be connected to the guitar output pins 1-6 and the shield. I chose to include the trimpots so I could use it with any 13 of my graphtech 13 pin guitars as well. This also requires a battery (+ve connected to pin 12 -ve to ground) to power the pre-amps of graphtech guitars. For the Godin guitar , The trimpots are not used and no battery attached.

The end result is very satisfactory, I'm using the 13 pin output of my Nylon string with the FTP and I don't feel there is any performance degradation from the way the FTP works mounted on my other guitar.

If anyone is interested in the comparison, I have a guitar with a mounted FTP and a 13 pin output from graphtech pickups which I could test both triple plays simultaneously but I would need some advice on how to set up the comparison (i.e which software to use to measure the differences in recorded midi).

Some Pics also included:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F832016%2F1458779570_1458131138_photo1.JPG&hash=8b03101ed8fdcc5e6bd82d721c741b6d4f91c885)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F832016%2F1458779566_995692286_photo2.JPG&hash=cff92448f4552cad51cd727a90aed7063c1bb2c4)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F832016%2F1458779562_1797688622_photo3.JPG&hash=cbf19c050889e0e7d961606e1c8ead1b68658936)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: CodeSmart on March 17, 2014, 11:57:09 PM
Nice work  :)
What about Roland GK-3/Kit. Does magnetic pickups works without level mod?
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on March 18, 2014, 01:09:44 AM
I'm pretty confident it would work just as well as with the other powered options since their outputs are all probably in same spec range for receiving devices but that it would also require attenuation due to the signal being too hot. The GK mag (without it's pre-amp ) works as a replacement for the FTP mag but it is less sensitive so needs to be installed at ideal distance from strings.

The adapter detailed above won't work in its current form with the GK as the graphtech and polydrive require +7 V on pin 12 whereas the GK kit also needs -7v supplied on pin 13, this could be done with a second battery

I guess it could be useful if you have an internal GK installation so you don't have to mount a second pickup . it's also quick way to share the same FTP with multiple guitars
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: abhijitnath on March 21, 2014, 08:56:16 AM
Bump.
Anyone with any luck getting Triple Play and 13 pin outs working from one pickup, either magnetic or piezo?
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: utensil on May 30, 2014, 10:07:19 AM
Hey just saw this was bumped, yes I did finally get something useful together which allows to connect the FTP to either a magnetic or piezo based 13 pin output. (see posts above)








Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: Elantric on May 30, 2014, 10:17:48 AM
Thanks Utensil!
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on May 30, 2014, 11:12:26 AM
I'm really interested to know of anyone elses differing experience of which of the 13 pin systems puts the signals in the sweet spot of ranges so no attenuation or amplification is required.

I was really pleasantly surprised to find that the RMC system on my Godin Grand Concert (2008 polydrive) guitar outputs individual string signals even with the battery REMOVED. My Graphtech guitars have absolutely no signal output when not powered.

In fact, this passive system is the exact perfect range for the FTP (and I'm assuming they've used RMC pickups and polydrive on the montreal triple play as well since I can't spot a mag hex pickup or additional battery slot for a pre-amp).

Anyone also have an idea of where one could get the connector that connects the FTP mag pickup to the circuit board. I used the existing one from the mag pickup but if I had known where to get them one could easily keep the FTP magnetic pickup intact making this completely reversible.

Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on May 30, 2014, 11:20:18 AM
QuoteAnyone also have an idea of where one could get the connector that connects the FTP mag pickup to the circuit board. I used the existing one from the mag pickup but if I had known where to get them one could easily keep the FTP magnetic pickup intact making this completely reversible.

8-Pin header connector Sources
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.precisehandtools.com%2Fimage%2Fcache%2Fdata%2Fpa-09%2F3-500x500.jpg&hash=577a12bdcd118290504580777e9102dc631de1d2)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-JST-1-5-ZH-8-Pin-Connector-Plug-w-Wire-x-10-sets-/121139377810?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c34783692 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-JST-1-5-ZH-8-Pin-Connector-Plug-w-Wire-x-10-sets-/121139377810?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c34783692)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on May 30, 2014, 11:25:52 AM
THANKS!!

missed this thread, Am planning on making an adapter without any battery or trimpots since I'm pretty much using this triple play only with my Godin. I'll keep the existing one in case I want to use on another guitar
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: abhijitnath on June 02, 2014, 01:44:44 AM
OOh- this is all great. For the DIY challenged (like me), anybody making this into a product that one can buy? That would be awesome!
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on June 02, 2014, 04:49:07 AM
Don't see it as all that practical, one would need to know the end piezo's and preamp that are being used. The one I've put together should work for any RMC, LR bags, Graphtech combinations but not for a Roland GK 13 pin since it requires the negative power supped. This could be achieved via another battery.

I guess one could make a common adapter with two 9 v batteries and 6 trim pots which would work for any 13 pin system but would still require the end user to open up his/her FTP to unplug the provided mag pickup and plug in the replacement adapter most likely voiding the warrantee. I think that kind of puts it into the space of DIY anyway and said potential buyer could just put together their own adapter.

I would think fish man could easily sell the FTP with a switchable pickup system, i.e either the magnetic or 13 pin adapter , but I think this would be a really small market.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: abhijitnath on June 02, 2014, 09:25:24 PM
Thanks a ton! I will get in touch with you over PM for some help. Hope that's ok!
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on June 02, 2014, 10:04:26 PM
Sure no problem, happy to share any info
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: KastorVGF on July 27, 2014, 09:04:26 PM
Hello utensil, I must say you did a very great job and I'm going to follow you! However, 2 black wires (the ground and the ground shield) in the 8 pin header which connected to the FTP directly make me confused. I draw a circuit diagram which I am planning to do with. Please tell me if there are any mistake(s). Thank you!!!!!

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F732016%2F1457985166_876818629_Photo28714114359am.jpg&hash=07ed1081328131753a217f3da8b917bcf0295a3b)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F732016%2F1457985162_666219335_Photo28714115124am.jpg&hash=3e2ad0c668a6fb5926f5e7e711c50654d799d2e1)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F732016%2F1457985159_679153166_Photo28714115409am.jpg&hash=c628c4ba3f2c247217683b241acf77c3b7816d34)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on July 28, 2014, 07:38:01 AM
Quote from: KastorVGF on July 27, 2014, 09:04:26 PM
Hello utensil, I must say you did a very great job and I'm going to follow you! However, 2 black wires (the ground and the ground shield) in the 8 pin header which connected to the FTP directly make me confused. I draw a circuit diagram which I am planning to do with. Please tell me if there are any mistake(s). Thank you!!!!!

Hey KastorVGF

your drawing is pretty much exactly how I wired it. The pins on the 13 pin correspond correctly assuming you're looking into the cable (male) part not into the socket, but I'm assuming you've already looked it up since you're planning seems on track. If I remember , the the 2 black cables coming from the magnetic pickup are a common ground (can be confirm that they are connected if you have a multimeter handy). Either way your drawing is exactly how I've wired it. FYI I used 10k pots which seem to work fine.

What type of 13 pin system are you using it with? , I'm assuming  it's not intended for a Roland GK (internal or external) as your leaving out the 13 pin -7v as I did. It works fine with the Graphtech system and the RMC. also if you managed to get the 8 pin connector then I'd suggest keeping your original magnetic pickup intact as it would be trivial to restore your FTP back to original state should you ever want.

I'm interested you hear your results so please share. As I mentioned I've been using this on and off  as well as an unmodified FTP and I can't really notice any difference in performance.


Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: KastorVGF on August 04, 2014, 03:46:39 AM
Eventually, I have finished it this afternoon. It is not too difficult but you do need tools to do this (I do this in the Lab. of my university xD).
But I must say, as utensil, this adapter give a extremely good result!! I use this with the Graph Tech Ghost Hexpander system which is much better than the origin magnetic hex-pickup!!
Thank you for this post as searching from Google, here is the only place that teach people to make the adapter.
It is very easy to make it on your own, so check this out if you are not satisfied with the magnetic PU!!
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F732016%2F1457985241_1234459210_Photo481461407pm.jpg&hash=91daf71adda7f062f022627fbea43c1d36cb171b)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F732016%2F1457985245_5590189_Photo481461224pm.jpg&hash=ba7ca07b92e4e5145ff53cf489c2cf3722e79f3a)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on August 04, 2014, 09:02:58 PM
Quote from: KastorVGF on August 04, 2014, 03:46:39 AM
Eventually, I have finished it this afternoon. It is not too difficult but you do need tools to do this (I do this in the Lab. of my university xD).
But I must say, as utensil, this adapter give a extremely good result!! I use this with the Graph Tech Ghost Hexpander system which is much better than the origin magnetic hex-pickup!!
Thank you for this post as searching from Google, here is the only place that teach people to make the adapter.
It is very easy to make it on your own, so check this out if you are not satisfied with the magnetic PU!!

I too find it works really well, and I've been using it with my nylon string which wasn't possible without the adapter. I would think it would have been nice if fishman did this for us but either way at least it works.

Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: gumbo on August 05, 2014, 03:30:13 AM
...and if you feel like one day building it into some sort of a project box and using a good 13-pin jack...I can probably help you there!!   ;)

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: utensil on August 24, 2014, 03:24:51 PM
Quote from: gumbo on August 05, 2014, 03:30:13 AM
...and if you feel like one day building it into some sort of a project box and using a good 13-pin jack...I can probably help you there!!   ;)

Cheers,
Peter

i agree, these tools while new r expected to serve a long span of duty to our musical whims and so the more durable the better. Unfortunately being based in the U.A.E (as well as my shoddy but self sufficient looking diy work) makes me an unlikely supplier to this market, perhaps KastorVGF or some who can do as neat a job would be placed correctly. Im not sure what the demand for a 13 pin to FTP adapter is , but i sure would have been willing to pay a premium for an "pro"  gk version.

Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: gumbo on August 25, 2014, 03:29:37 AM
Quote from: utensil on August 24, 2014, 03:24:51 PM
i agree, these tools while new r expected to serve a long span of duty to our musical whims and so the more durable the better. Unfortunately being based in the U.A.E (as well as my shoddy but self sufficient looking diy work) makes me an unlikely supplier to this market, perhaps KastorVGF or some who can do as neat a job would be placed correctly. Im not sure what the demand for a 13 pin to FTP adapter is , but i sure would have been willing to pay a premium for an "pro"  gk version.

Perhaps the three of us should talk more about the possibilities..
...PM me at any time..

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: jassy on September 16, 2014, 06:13:12 PM
I would be very interested in some adapter to be able to use the FTP with my Godin guitars (several RMC and one Ghost) but also with my gk2 and gk3 guitars, so if someone would do some small box that can solve it I would want it.

Also a solution to connect one mag exaphonic PU simultaneously to a GK3 and the FTP would be very interesting.

My electronic skills are = 0 so I'm out of luck to be able to do it myself.
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: jassy on September 17, 2014, 06:58:40 PM
Quote from: Elantric on April 22, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
But I would prefer a method where I could feed the 13 pin gear along with the wireless MIDI from FTP.

                           |---->GK-3 -> 13pin
One hex PU 8 pin---|
                           |---->FTP controller > wireless MIDI

and the "Y" Adapter could be very straight forward.

Mount one hex PU of choice( FTP, GK-3, GK-2A, G1D, PU100, AIX-101) Let the stock Hex PU Cable be the input to the Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" to feed two targets.

On this  Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" there MUST be 12 "coupling capacitors": 
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on FTP Controller.
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on the GK3 preamp target.
The 12 Capacitors are required to prevent DC voltage interference and offsets between the two different systems.
Small Surface Mount caps are available, but must be of adequate capacity to pass the low fundamental frequencies of the Guitar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FGK3PUP8POSPlug_zpsb3e3aaf9.jpg&hash=82a780c75749517932f34f64d7cb64cefc90685a)
Well after thinking about it I think The best solution for me would be able to use my guitars equipped with GK2 / 3 with the FTP Simultaneously.
So has anyone done this "Y-Splitter" with the 12 "coupling capacitors" already?
Could someone help explaining which type of connectors and capacitors would be needed to make that splitter to connect a GK2/3 and a FTP? (a link to a store would be amazing  :D)
Thank you.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: CodeSmart on October 14, 2014, 03:51:30 PM
I don't have a FTP myself but it sounds like you are looking for this (?):

A small strap box with the FTP wart attached to the outside (or is the wart still on the guitar?)
- A 13-pin input connector (for 13-pin guitar)
- A 13-pin output connector (for Roland GR/VG/GP)
- A "FTP" connector to connect to FTP wart replacing hex pickup (Q1: what connector is that/footprint ?)
- A compartment for two 9V batteries to power the 13-pin input connector +/- 7V pins (Q2: and power/charge FTP?. At what voltage would that be?)
- Automatically disconnect batteries when VG/GR is connected (using Power from synth instead)
- DC separation of audio circuits
- ONE knob controlling the volume of all six strings to FTP (ranging from damping to amplifying signal using a 6-channel voltage controlled audio chip)

Above is doable but what is the market? 
How many wants to temper with their expensive FTP wart?
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on October 14, 2014, 04:36:33 PM
Quote- A "FTP" connector to connect to FTP wart replacing hex pickup (Q1: what connector is that/footprint ?)

Fishman hex PU employs identical 8 pin connector and wiring pinout as a stock Roland GK-3 PU 

In other words - if you own a guitar that already has a GK-3 hex PU installed - you can easily swap the GK-3 "wart" for the FTP "wart".




Here's the inside of FTP -the hex PU connector is on the upper left  - next to the battery
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F3502013%2F1387244102_1968257178_20130310_121454.jpg&hash=e652e1262b6a1e8b7b43e33133b54a62f6d641e4)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FGK3PUP8POSPlug_zpsb3e3aaf9.jpg&hash=82a780c75749517932f34f64d7cb64cefc90685a)


Details on the 8 pin connector
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0)
Title: Re: Re: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: musicman65 on October 14, 2014, 08:45:57 PM
Quote from: CodeSmart on October 14, 2014, 03:51:30 PMI don't have a FTP myself but it sounds like you are looking for this (?):

A small strap box with the FTP wart attached to the outside (or is the wart still on the guitar?)
- A 13-pin input connector (for 13-pin guitar)
- A 13-pin output connector (for Roland GR/VG/GP)
- A "FTP" connector to connect to FTP wart replacing hex pickup (Q1: what connector is that/footprint ?)
- A compartment for two 9V batteries to power the 13-pin input connector +/- 7V pins (Q2: and power/charge FTP?. At what voltage would that be?)
- Automatically disconnect batteries when VG/GR is connected (using Power from synth instead)
- DC separation of audio circuits
- ONE knob controlling the volume of all six strings to FTP (ranging from damping to amplifying signal using a 6-channel voltage controlled audio chip)

Above is doable but what is the market?  
How many wants to temper with their expensive FTP wart?
I would love the better triggering/tracking of the FTP but have ZERO interest in having to equip my guitar with their pickup, having a PC in my rig, or going partially wireless...what's the point? I'm not giving up my GK hex wired VG99 rig, alt tuning, or any of the other awesome features of GK modeling capabilities.

A box that allows the FTP wart to sit on the gear end of my GK cable would be the only way I'd want to use an FTP. I can't figure out why a floor or rack model isn't offered already?
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on October 14, 2014, 10:03:36 PM
QuoteA box that allows the FTP wart to sit on the gear end of my GK cable would be the only way I'd want to use an FTP. I can't figure out why a floor or rack model isn't offered already?

All the info a clever DIY'er needs to create such an adapter for the FTP is already here in this thread - start at the 1st post!

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8413.0;attach=8948;image)
Title: Re: Re: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: musicman65 on October 16, 2014, 11:27:07 PM
Quote from: Elantric on October 14, 2014, 10:03:36 PM
All the info a clever DIY'er needs to create such an adapter for the FTP is already here in this thread - start at the 1st post!
Thanks Elantric...backtracked and now up to speed. Not sure I have the time for another DIY project. Maybe after the new year. :) If anyone does make an "Adapter Box" I'd be interested.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: MusicOverGear on November 24, 2014, 05:10:59 PM
I just put this circuit on perf inside my GP-10, so that my GK guitar is driving both the GP-10 and FTP. The FTP is permanently stuck to my pedalboard. It's working great right now - took about 2 hours, including a trip to the electronics store, where they damn near laughed me out of the building for looking for molex parts with 1.5mm pitch. Instead of waiting for a pre-assembled one to arrive from China - or even slower, using my wits to find one closer LOL - I just used the pads on the bottom of the board that must be meant as test points or something - they are labeled 1-7 for strings and ground.

I wanted to share a problem I ran into. I followed Kastor's schemo from p1 of this thread and the signal was still too hot for my FTP. So I just added an additional 10k resistor between the GK jack and the wiper of the pot and I was able to adjust each string down to range. To adjust I set sensitivity in FTP to 8 for each string and then got the pot as close to perfect as I could. I played for a few minutes and adjusted until the lights looked right and it felt and sounded balanced from string to string.

When I was inside my GP-10 - after I was halfway done and too lazy to turn back and rethink the project - it occurred to me that I could have mounted the FTP internally inside the GP-10 - left switched on and running off mains power - there is tons of empty space in there. IDK what would happen if I broke power off from the GP-10's input and used e.g. a 3v step-down converter - probably noise LOL. Anyway that would be a good project for someone with the chops. I'm going to use my hack job as it is until my shoddy work breaks down; by then I'll have some better ideas ready to go.

Anyway FYI for anyone doing this with a GK guitar - seems like the signal needs a little extra resistance to get it within range. 
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: whippinpost91850 on November 24, 2014, 05:54:53 PM
A picture would be really cool  8)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: MusicOverGear on November 24, 2014, 07:22:39 PM
Sorry  poor pic  I'm at my gig and my battery is low.  FTP is in front of the birds logo
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: MusicOverGear on November 24, 2014, 07:23:09 PM
Dam i don't think it uploaded

Try this
https://picasaweb.google.com/m/zoom?uname=107005125598970288451&aid=6044972183408016657&id=6085478755201521474&viewportWidth=320&viewportHeight=416

EDIT:
Okay next day now. I didn't have time to throw together a MainStage project and test it before leaving yesterday. But I can say that the mod does not interfere with the function of the GP-10. I've been using Logic for about an hour this AM and no problems so far - FTP works pretty much like it did mounted to a separate guitar.

I've already had two ideas for reworking this mod. One, to rework the whole setup with a proper layered pedalboard in a proper case (right now it's just a guitar shaped board that rides in a double gig bag). That way I could put all PSU's out of sight and just plug in mains power to the pedalboard - this is how I always did my tube amp pedalboards. The payoff for FTP is that that would give me a chance to put its fragile enclosure further out of the way AND figure out a way to just leave it switched on and give it its own PSU.

BTW I removed the snaggy type protrusions from the FTP - the lever for the switch and the knob for the pot.   
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on November 25, 2014, 07:55:05 AM
Since you have relocated the FTP Controller onto the floor with external Gk13 pin input  - like utensil has done
13 Pin to FTP adapter
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.25 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.25)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F3282014%2F1416930555_1130325491_photo3.JPG_thumb.png&hash=f11b9b52fc8f170c9f1e0129f828d81095ba0f5d)
The FTP battery is 3.7VDC
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F3502013%2F1387243957_1764235969_20130310_120919.jpg&hash=0df0d322a69bd00fe044e7b525c3eebbcd5209c2)


Why not remove the FTP Li-Ion battery - and run it from a 3.7VDC supply?

Older Nokia Cell phone Power adapters should work fine
Power Supply Adapter NOKIA ACP-7U AC / DC 3.7v 350mA
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Supply-Adapter-NOKIA-ACP-7U-AC-DC-3-7v-350mA-/261673825117?pt=Multipurpose_AC_to_DC_Adapters&hash=item3cecf9b35d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Supply-Adapter-NOKIA-ACP-7U-AC-DC-3-7v-350mA-/261673825117?pt=Multipurpose_AC_to_DC_Adapters&hash=item3cecf9b35d)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2F00%2Fs%2FNTAwWDQzNg%3D%3D%2Fz%2F5C8AAOSwr81UUIzC%2F%24_12.JPG&hash=ab156451e4dbabe76fcc0b647bdb8201f3310fce)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Vade on November 25, 2014, 08:14:09 AM
@ MOG

A quick question about your setup inside your GP-10. What did you use to split the 13 pin feed and send it to your FTP? Any pictures you'd care to post would be really helpful to those of us who had to Google terms like "perf" and "Molex" to try to get up to speed.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: MusicOverGear on November 25, 2014, 08:36:58 AM
Elantric thanks for ideas. Yeah that seems best long-term. However now my setup is as ultralight as possible, and as a consequence my PSU's are just carried with my handful of cables - they aren't installed. If I switch to a proper pedalboard I will do that. Did utensil power his by transformer?

Vade sorry I didn't take pics while I was inside. Basically I just followed Kastor's schemo exactly. I soldered an extra 7 wires directly to the GK input jack. Those go a volume control just like in a guitar - the input goes to wiper, the output goes to lug #3 on the pot, and ground is lug #1. Just like in Kastor's schemo. The only thing I changed was adding an extra resistor. I did that because the cheap trimpots I used didn't have good enough resolution at the very bottom of their travel to get the level I wanted; it went from OFF to TOO LOUD.

I used one of the really nice jacks from Gumbo on this forum, but it would actually be easier to use one of Roland's stock jacks because you can just solder your wires to the solder side of the PCB.

HTH
Michael

PS Vade do NOT emulate my methodology on this - I did mine as a quick kludge to get it going. You really want to use the correct molex connector, plus it would be a lot smarter to use a proper connector on the chassis of the GP-10 (I just ran wires directly out from my PCB). I figured maybe I would use CAT5 if I eventually rework this mod on a proper pedalboard, but IDK if that's a good choice. I'm sure it's better than nothing, which is what I used on my mod LOL
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Vade on November 25, 2014, 09:01:07 AM
@ MOG

Thanks for the quick reply. That clears things up as I hadn't realized Kastor's schematic was about a direct connection to the 13 pin connector; probably skimming too much. So if I understand your suggestion not to kludge then it would involve a Molex (or Cat5 connector) on your homemade FTP perf -> a connector cable -> a Molex on or near the GP-10 perf which would serve to split the 13 pin input into a GP-10 leg and an FTP leg. I've never poked around inside my GP-10 so I'll look around for a pic and if I get to feeling bold I'll pull my GP-10 off my pedal board and take a look inside.

P.S. The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to just leave well enough alone. My FTP isn't really in my way mounted on my guitar. I've literally had a soldering iron on a PCB just once before when trying to eliminate a cold solder joint. I can't read schematics (yet) and I don't understand the function of the various components on the PCBs (yet). Do I really want to mess about with two rather expensive components (FTP & GP-10) integral to my rig and make that my first real foray into PCB and modding? All in the attempt to eliminate the modest inconvenience of a wart? I'm well aware that this isn't a particularly challenging project but I still think I'll cheer you lot on and take a bit more time to get the lay of the land before digging into a project like this. I've plenty of other challenges to meet before my rig is fully functional and I'd best keep digging away at those.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on November 25, 2014, 09:35:33 AM
QuotePS Vade do NOT emulate my methodology on this - I did mine as a quick kludge to get it going. You really want to use the correct molex connector, plus it would be a lot smarter to use a proper connector on the chassis of the GP-10 (I just ran wires directly out from my PCB). I figured maybe I would use CAT5 if I eventually rework this mod on a proper pedalboard, but IDK if that's a good choice. I'm sure it's better than nothing, which is what I used on my mod LOL

Find bulk of the DIY GK parts and molex connectors in this area
VGuitar Forums > Guitars and Pickups > GK-13 Reference Library
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=65.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=65.0)

GK-3 Internal 8-Pin header connector sources
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0)


and scan the DIY Posts here for parts sources

DIY Hardware
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=21.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=21.0)

http://www.doctronics.co.uk/prototyp.htm (http://www.doctronics.co.uk/prototyp.htm)



http://www.makezine.com/ (http://www.makezine.com/)

http://www.musicianstechcentral.com/midihard.html (http://www.musicianstechcentral.com/midihard.html)

http://www.audiomulch.com/midipic/ (http://www.audiomulch.com/midipic/)

http://www.mini-itx.com/ (http://www.mini-itx.com/)

http://www.midibox.org/users/tor_arne/midibox64_walkthrough/index.html (http://www.midibox.org/users/tor_arne/midibox64_walkthrough/index.html)

http://forums.benheck.com/ (http://forums.benheck.com/)

http://www.maxmidi.com/diy/ (http://www.maxmidi.com/diy/)

http://www.doctronics.co.uk/design.htm (http://www.doctronics.co.uk/design.htm)


Perf Board
http://www.amazon.com/Solderable-BreadBoard-matches-tie-point-breadboards/dp/B0040Z3012/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_cp_2_T7DN?ie=UTF8&refRID=1KKSYB402V7X7RQCZ0TX (http://www.amazon.com/Solderable-BreadBoard-matches-tie-point-breadboards/dp/B0040Z3012/ref=pd_rhf_ee_s_cp_2_T7DN?ie=UTF8&refRID=1KKSYB402V7X7RQCZ0TX)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F61oLmBfSgYL.jpg&hash=4a157338579381e87624e202f9ab0d5859491309)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: MusicOverGear on November 25, 2014, 09:42:56 AM
Man I am not qualified to be giving advice on electronics, but I will tell you what I can. Sounds like I'm at least one step ahead of you :)

I'm still a little fuzzy on what Utensil and Kastor are doing myself. I thought they were plugging their adapted FTP with 9V battery directly into the 13-pin jack of a guitar. But maybe not. Dunno - but that's where I got the idea for splitting off the GK jack in my GP-10, and it worked fine in mine.

Here's what I envision as a better version of my sloppy hack:

Based on my experience so far, that seems like it would be relatively solid. But like I said, I have no credentials in electronics. Also my mod has less than 10 hours of service under its belt, so it is far from proven.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on November 25, 2014, 09:49:52 AM
ITs "What you see is what you get"

This is the FTP Controller  - modified by Utensil  - with hex PU removed and replaced by a DIN 13 pin connector ( Id make it a female myself) > 6 channel passive attenuator board (the white blob)  > to small molox header feeding the FTP controller using the former hex PU connector.



Like this:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F3282014%2F1416930555_1130325491_photo3.JPG_thumb.png&hash=f11b9b52fc8f170c9f1e0129f828d81095ba0f5d)


This allows Any 13 pin guitar to use the FTP as a Guitar to MIDI converter. Still need to plug the FTP USB receiver into a PC/Mac/iPad+CCK or Raspberry Pi to drive a Synth 
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Vade on November 25, 2014, 11:00:21 AM
Thanks for taking time to expand on your experiment MOG. As of now, I think that if the wart gets bothersome I'll go the modified guitar route. Especially since my current rig involves hauling just one guitar to a gig. Having the FTP and GK controls at hand at least permits of the possibility to make them practical. Perhaps modifying the FTP pad output to something more useful than simple patch up/down. Then there's the synth/sample volume issue. I'm still trying to find a good way to fade in/out the volume of synths etc. (which I'm thinking is going to be key to making them more than a background drone effect) and that FTP volume control might have a role to play in that scenario; although I've not gotten it working outside of the FTP software yet. I'll be interested in what you come up with as you've always something to teach when you post. Thanks again.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: BackDAWman on November 25, 2014, 06:19:25 PM
So....to get this straight. If I did the following on my GK3 to split the GK's Hex PU between the FTP and the 13pin wart I could have a virtual GR-55 if I plugged into my GP-10 with the 13pin connector and used my Kenton Host to plug in the FTP receiver and drive a SD-50. Only with the incredible tracking of the FTP and the awesome modeling of the GP-10.

                                     +
GK3 Hex PU Header 0----||------->Hex PU header of FTP
                                     +
GK3 Hex PU Header 0----||------->Hex PU header of FTP
                                     +
GK3 Hex PU Header 0----||------->Hex PU header of FTP
                                     +
GK3 Hex PU Header 0----||------->Hex PU header of FTP
                                     +
GK3 Hex PU Header 0----||------->Hex PU header of FTP
                                     +
GK3 Hex PU Header 0----||------->Hex PU header of FTP

GK3 Ground-------------------------> FTP ground
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on November 25, 2014, 08:40:38 PM
for feeding two separate systems  - The series capacitors will block  / isolate DC voltage - but the FTP preamp  is more sensitive than the GK-3 preamp and as both MusicOverGear and Utensil have stated - you need to add a passive attenuator potentiometer for each string  - to run the output form each capacitor to one end of a 10k pot, - tie the other end to Analog Ground  - then use the the Pot middle lug ( the wiper)  to feed the input header on the Gk-3 using the same pinout as the Roland Gk-3 PU Input Header.

(GK-3 Schematics)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0)
Get the proper size 8 pin Molex connector parts on Ebay - the type mentioned here:
GK-3 Internal 8-Pin header connector sources

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9094.0)
 
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: BackDAWman on November 26, 2014, 02:41:36 PM
So the FTP hex pu has less output than the GK? Then using the FTP pu as the main pu may be a better idea and increase sensitivity on the GK pre-amp. I only suggest this way as i don't have a schematic of the FTP internals. If the outputs were measurable then you could adjust the gain of the GK pre-amps to suit.

Just thinking out loud.

Has anyone got any specs of the two pu's?
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on November 26, 2014, 02:57:30 PM
Both Gk-3 Hex PU and FTP hex pickup are very close in output signal levels. The FTP has a bit higher output level.
In fact I have mentioned in a few existing FTP threads that if you already have a Guitar with perfectly mounted GK-3 PU - its rather straight forward to retain your existing GK-3 hex PU, and substitute  FTP Controller for the Gk-3 preamp

Remember Utensil's FTP Adapter interface is receiving signals not from the raw GK-3 PU - but rather from the GK-3's 13pin output  - after the GK-3's internal  opamp gain stage output  - thus the need for a custom 6 channel passive attenuator board with trim pots since he is feeding yet another opamp gain stage inside the FTP controller

QuoteSo the FTP hex pu has less output than the GK? Then using the FTP pu as the main pu may be a better idea and increase sensitivity on the GK pre-amp.


Remember more gain from the hex PU is not a good thing as this has consequences - like higher susceptibility to adjacent string crosstalk - and that ruins DSP generated Alt Tunings


Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: BackDAWman on November 26, 2014, 03:22:30 PM
Yep. That's why I'd like to try my GK pu driving both the FTP wart and the GK-3 wart. One hex mag pu driving both sets of pre-amps. Wireless MIDI and modelling via the GP-10.

I can feel a project coming on....

Now all I need is time  ::)
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: Elantric on November 26, 2014, 04:05:22 PM
For those of us with multiple 13 pin guitars - its more attractive to place the FTP Controller down on the floor, and use a US-20 A/B/Y 13 selector for control

- The "FTP Controller" with its clobbered D-pad remains a flawed half baked mine field of trouble when mounted on the guitar for synth control at live gigs 
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: CodeSmart on November 26, 2014, 04:06:20 PM
My next switcher project (sometime 2015) will have a input 3Xhex selector chip with programmable gain. The output hex signal volume chip(s)  has per string (and per guitar input) programmable attenuation. This will accommodate both amplification and attenuation if needed. Who knows...might be useful for various FTP projects.
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: gumbo on November 26, 2014, 05:07:41 PM
Quote from: CodeSmart on November 26, 2014, 04:06:20 PM
My next switcher project (sometime 2015) will have a input 3Xhex selector chip with programmable gain. The output hex signal volume chip(s)  has per string (and per guitar input) programmable attenuation. This will accommodate both amplification and attenuation if needed. Who knows...might be useful for various FTP projects.


...so...  Mrs CodeSmart doesn't read these posts then...     ;D
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: scratch17 on April 30, 2015, 11:08:03 AM
I bought a 2015 SG Standard today. It arrives Monday or Tuesday at GC.

I have an FTP and a new GK-3. Obviously, I don't want to modify my SG, so splitting the GK-3 output to feed the FTP seems to be the way for me to go. I'm going to get a tech buddy to help me make this mod.

I'll let you know how it goes. My buddy is a really busy guy, so it will be a while.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Rorster on May 06, 2015, 07:16:58 PM
Is it correct to assume that the FTP Controller  - modified by Utensil when used with a Godin LGX-SA or LGXT would permit the program up/down switch on the Godin, as well as the guitar/synth/combined guitar-synth switch to work? Also since these guitars have an onboard acoustic preamp for the piezos acoustic function, would that 9 volt battery preamp affect the FTP playability if/when combined with the acoustic function of the guitar. The Godin that Utensil uses has a 9 volt powered preamp I'm almost certain but I don't believe that this question has been specifically addressed.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on May 06, 2015, 07:22:35 PM
QuoteIs it correct to assume that the FTP Controller  - modified by Utensil when used with a Godin LGX-SA or LGXT would permit the program up/down switch on the Godin, as well as the guitar/synth/combined guitar-synth switch to work?

Sadly -no
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Rorster on May 07, 2015, 04:45:11 AM
Way too bad. A pretty cool idea. I wonder how program changes are made unless via a midi floor controller.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on May 09, 2015, 08:57:05 AM
Quote from: Rorster on May 06, 2015, 07:16:58 PM
Is it correct to assume that the FTP Controller  - modified by Utensil when used with a Godin LGX-SA or LGXT would permit the program up/down switch on the Godin, as well as the guitar/synth/combined guitar-synth switch to work? Also since these guitars have an onboard acoustic preamp for the piezos acoustic function, would that 9 volt battery preamp affect the FTP playability if/when combined with the acoustic function of the guitar. The Godin that Utensil uses has a 9 volt powered preamp I'm almost certain but I don't believe that this question has been specifically addressed.

Sorry this reply a bit late in the discussion, With the pre-amp activated, i.e if a normal jack is plugged into the Godin, the 9 volt is indeed activated and the signals coming out of the 13 pin into the triple play are then too hot and the trim pots need to be used to attenuate. The usage I've normalised to is to leave the trimpots at a general level that work on all my 13 pin guitars (all mine except the Godin are graph tech preamps). For all the other guitars I supply power to the 13 pin jack via an external 9volt battery. For the Godin , I usually have the normal jack plugged in while using the triple play as well so no external 9 volt is needed (the one in the back of the godin activates the preamp) and the trim pots are already set to attenuate to a suitable level.

the triple play is surprisingly accepting of different input sources, i.e magnetic or piezo and performance seems to work evenly well, getting the signal in the sweet spot in terms of strength is to have the dynamics of velocities so everything isn't either max velocity or at a minimal level.

For patch changes I have the triple play mounted on a guitar strap with velcro so I can use it's buttons to for program change etc.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on July 03, 2015, 04:57:12 PM
Reviving this thread...

I'm expecting to have some free time soon (I'm going to change jobs and my current employer will require that I sit out for a while -- in the financial industry, we call this being on "garden leave," or "on the beach."), so I'm really anxious to do this.

My main guitar is my Brian Moore i2.13 (RMC), while I have a few other GK-equiped guitars. If I understand this thread correctly, what I want to do is build a box with separate inputs for GK/RMC, so I can trim the RMC signal while letting the GK go straight through. I'd like to provide a GK-out, as well, to drive my GP-10.

So I think I'd need 3 of gumbo's 13-pin jacks, 6 trim pots, a perf board and an enclosure. Sound about right?

Oh... and I think I have a pile of old Nokia AC adapters. Never thought I'd find a use for them!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on July 03, 2015, 10:42:28 PM
Quote from: drbill on July 03, 2015, 04:57:12 PM
Reviving this thread...

I'm expecting to have some free time soon (I'm going to change jobs and my current employer will require that I sit out for a while -- in the financial industry, we call this being on "garden leave," or "on the beach."), so I'm really anxious to do this.

My main guitar is my Brian Moore i2.13 (RMC), while I have a few other GK-equiped guitars. If I understand this thread correctly, what I want to do is build a box with separate inputs for GK/RMC, so I can trim the RMC signal while letting the GK go straight through. I'd like to provide a GK-out, as well, to drive my GP-10.

So I think I'd need 3 of gumbo's 13-pin jacks, 6 trim pots, a perf board and an enclosure. Sound about right?

Oh... and I think I have a pile of old Nokia AC adapters. Never thought I'd find a use for them!

Basically the RMC unpowered outputs from pins 1-6 are in the right range and don't need to be trimmed. Any of the systems while powered (RMC, Graphtech with +7 and GK with +/-7 ) require trimming.
I myself am going to be reworking my adapter as Its had so much use that I would have been better off using a 13 pin female jack (which was suggested by Elantric) to the ftp rather than a direct male connecter straight to my guitar. The constant usage has worn out the connectors a bit. I plan to make an external box like you mention.How will you duplicate (or buffer I think is the right term?) the signals to send them also out to the GP-10, I wanted to do this with my GR-55 but don't really know how to go about it. other than that your HW list sounds right.

I used 10K pots and these work but 90 percent of the range has no effect and then right as I turn them to the last 10% of the rotation the output is trimmed. I think I will try other value pots this time.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on July 03, 2015, 11:24:10 PM
I'll be very interested to see how your new version comes out! I appreciate your pioneering this for everyone.

I don't know how I'll buffer the signals... I guess I need to read the DIY GKP-4 thread (or just use the one I have). I do want to be able to use both the FTP & GP-10 at once.

I'd assumed all along that the hex pickups needed to be powered. If the GK & RMC both need trimming, then I guess I'll need only one input to the adapter.

It'll be a few weeks before I can get started on this.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: scratch17 on July 04, 2015, 07:28:45 PM
drbill and I have 2 things in common.

1. We both own a Brian Moore i2.13 guitar. I just got mine last month. New / old stock in almost mint condition with HSC for $600. ;D

2. We'd both like to connect both an FTP and other GK gear, (in my case a VG-99), to the i2.13's 13 pin output.


From what I've read in this thread so far there are two main issues to overcome to accomplish the split.


I have an idea to use my existing equipment to accomplish the split, with minimal DIY work required. I think others could do the same.

Here is my plan. I haven't tried it yet as I'm reconfiguring my studio at present. If it works, it will do away with the need for trim pots and caps. Comments as to feasibility will be welcome.

I own an RMC Fanout Box. It has six mono unbalanced outputs that parallel the pins of the Fanout's GK input. In my studio I have these six outputs connected to my UA Apollo. This lets me stream the GK output to six separate tracks in my DAW.

I normally have six outputs from my DAW patched back into the six mono inputs on the Fanout Box, so I can process different strings with different patches on my VG-99.

By passing the i2.13's GK output into the Apollo, I can set up a separate six channel bus that I use to lower the levels so that the FTP gets exactly the right input level. This should also isolate the FTP from anything plugged into the Fanout Box's GK pass through output (which I will connect to the VG-99).

Now comes the minimal DIY work. I cut the FTP pickup from its body as Utensil did, and connect the six wires to a female GK jack. Then I can run a GK cable from the Fanout Box's second GK output (which I believe is connected to the returns from the DAW with the level corrected stream) to the FTP and mount it anywhere I want.

There is a possibility that by returning the signal back into the Fanout Box, the signal to the FTP could be compromised (i.e. leakage between GK outputs might occur). If so, I'd build a box with six unbalanced female jack inputs connected inside to the pins of a female GK output. Then I'd connect the returns from the Apollo to the new box, connecting it to the FTP body. That would bypass and completely isolate the FTP from the other GK equipment connected to the Fanout Box.

You could also use an analog mixer instead of the Apollo to accomplish the same goal. The mixer sets levels and isolates the FTP's input from other GK equipment. I could use my Mackie Onyx 1620 instead of the Apollo. But I can set up the UA Console app with the correct levels and recall them any time. For me it's just more convenient.


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on September 05, 2015, 10:24:56 AM
I have all my parts and am ready to give it a go. Thinking out loud here about how this will all work out best. I have an SKB rack where I house my MOTU 828 and a couple of drawers. Right now I have my GP-10 on one and Eventide Space on the other, along with a USB hub. I sit my Kemper toaster on the top of the rack and my MacBook Pro on a Roland PC stand (pretty secure for only about twice the price of a decent music stand). On my pedalboard is my Kemper Remote, 3 expression pedals, a SoftStep2 and a PageFlip Cicada (for turning pages on my iPad). I'm sending PC messages from performance slots on the Kemper to MainStage to control everything. What I like about this setup is I can let my son borrow the Kemper or play with just the GP-10 (like I did last Sunday, when we played together) without tearing the whole rig apart.

I have an insane amount of control (I haven't yet found a use for my GuitarWing, but still keep it because it's just so cool).

I am currently running my 13-pin cable there and only run my Kemper ethernet cable and a USB cable to my pedalboard (I like not having to run any audio!).

What I'll do with the FTP is mount the converter in a small box under the pedalboard (where I'll also have my old GKP-4 splitter). I can then just run the 13-pin cable to the GKP, a short one to the FTP in a box and a longer one back to the rack for the GP-10. I guess I'll attach the FTP transmitter under the pedalboard, too (I don't use the switches & stuff on the controller at all).

A few questions/thoughts:


What do you think, sirs?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on September 15, 2015, 10:05:54 AM
I can answer one of those and say that yes the FTP will run directly while being charged without the battery (at least mind does) , I removed the battery to check this because I'm toying with the idea of placing it in the gr55 housing and powering it from the USB power for the USB stick port, either way the battery is just dead wieght.

I was planning on using a passive y 13 pin splitter type connection ( same way as https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7869.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7869.0) and also how the us 20 is wired) . These aren't isolated and the respective pins on both will be directly connected. I'm hoping it'll work but can't be sure of how much one system will interfere with the other.

Can anyone post the wiring or explanation (or links) of how to isolate each of the 6 string signals to each system ( or even split a single audio signal into 2 isolated circuits for that matter). I gave up on searching for this as I only found very complex diagrams that seemed to have different applications from splitting audio).

I actually need this for my variax , 13 pin mod too where I'm using piezos to drive both the vax circuit and the 13 pin preamp but can't use both at the same time cause they aren't isolated and if both are powered then everything goes screwy.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 15, 2015, 10:11:27 AM
QuoteCan anyone post the wiring or explanation (or links) of how to isolate each of the 6 string signals to each system ( or even a single audio signal for that matter)

Since the Gk-3 Mag Hex PU is Hi-Z, typically an active opamp buffer ( like the one already inside the GK-3 )is employed for this

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Presents-Do-It-Yourself-Projects-Guitarists/dp/087930359X/ref=pd_sim_14_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0CKJ6PHTJ9DJV0HH3YTW&dpID=51xdX0uIelL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL320_SR248%2C320_ (http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Presents-Do-It-Yourself-Projects-Guitarists/dp/087930359X/ref=pd_sim_14_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0CKJ6PHTJ9DJV0HH3YTW&dpID=51xdX0uIelL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL320_SR248%2C320_)

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on September 16, 2015, 06:22:55 PM
I could not be more surprised & pleased to report that it works!!! 20 year old me is not impressed with my decrepit soldering skills, but I managed to get it done.

I plugged it into the B channel of my GKP-4 and my GP-10 into the A channel. Then started the Fishman app and it's all good. All I have to do now is adjust the trimpots and put it in a box.

Thank you all for all the valuable information! I am so pleased to have this available for all my guitars now.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 16, 2015, 06:26:32 PM
Like a pro ;)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on September 17, 2015, 03:18:31 AM
Congrats, drbill!

Great to see it come together for you!

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on September 17, 2015, 08:22:24 AM
Congrats and thanks....Very nicely done
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on September 18, 2015, 08:59:58 PM
Bifocal contact lenses FTW!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: GuitarBuilder on September 18, 2015, 10:44:53 PM
Now that the FTP "wart" is no longer on the guitar, it would be interesting to explore a hardwired version (without the wireless dongle).  Could there be a way to connect the dongle directly to the wart, bypassing the radio circuits?  Or better yet, how about connecting the wart directly to a RPI with MIDI?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Piplodocus on September 28, 2015, 11:09:17 AM
I've read this thread a good few times now, but I keep losing the plot as its 4 pages long, peppered with questions, and people are tying to split to use the Roland simultaneously with it, and some of the levels discussed are from other pickups (RMC etc?) other than the standard 13 pin out. Could someone please humour me and summarise the following:

I have a Parker with Graphtech hexaphonic 13 pin out + the acoustiphonic preamp (or I will imminently at least). I wanna run this into a FTP mounted on the guitar strap. I don't really care about switching, I'll use my feet for this. Would be nice if it'll work out any other 13 pin too for future compatibility. So...

1) this will work just as well as the original pickup yes? That seems to be the case from the later posts?
2) all I need is 6x 10k trim pots as attenuators?
3) what about the in-line 10k resistors too someone mentioned?
4) one of the pics above shows some caps too. Are this for noise suppression, not really necessary, or do this form a LPF to improve note recognition or something?
5) will the 9V for the Acoustiphonic and Hexaphonic power the thing entirely (except the FTP)? I thought the standard Roland/axon whatever thing partly phantom powered the Hexaphonic preamp? I could well be wrong though.
6) what's this traktion switch on the Graphtech output do? I believe it changes level on the outputs AFAIK. No idea if this is irrelevant or useful. I assume in either position I still need the trim pots?
7) Then I just wire up the 6 strings, and the ground. Is there a signal ground and a separate shield ground. I can't remember but I thought the FTP has a signal ground and an RF shield. I haven't got any easy access to an FTP for a while though.

Thanks very much for clearing this up and clarifying them all.

P.S. I already have the molex header for the FTP and there's a 13 pin plug in the post!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 11:12:25 AM
This adapter begs for a short run PCB spin
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on September 28, 2015, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 11:12:25 AM
This adapter begs for a short run PCB spin
Or at least a proper drawing to start with. It's not very clear. Not at all.
I think you could make a very tiny PCB for this thing 8)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 04:08:38 PM
KastorVGF wrote>
QuoteHello utensil, I must say you did a very great job and I'm going to follow you! However, 2 black wires (the ground and the ground shield) in the 8 pin header which connected to the FTP directly make me confused. I draw a circuit diagram which I am planning to do with. Please tell me if there are any mistake(s). Thank you!!!!!
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2702015%2F1443481649_989748257_Photo28714114359am.jpg&hash=b302dea4a8728bdba1e3b12c44d5bcdaf38d4efc)

Utensil wrote>
QuoteHey KastorVGF

your drawing is pretty much exactly how I wired it. The pins on the 13 pin correspond correctly assuming you're looking into the cable (male) part not into the socket, but I'm assuming you've already looked it up since you're planning seems on track. If I remember , the the 2 black cables coming from the magnetic pickup are a common ground (can be confirm that they are connected if you have a multimeter handy). Either way your drawing is exactly how I've wired it. FYI I used 10k pots which seem to work fine.

What type of 13 pin system are you using it with? , I'm assuming  it's not intended for a Roland GK (internal or external) as your leaving out the 13 pin -7v as I did. It works fine with the Graphtech system and the RMC. also if you managed to get the 8 pin connector then I'd suggest keeping your original magnetic pickup intact as it would be trivial to restore your FTP back to original state should you ever want.

I'm interested you hear your results so please share. As I mentioned I've been using this on and off  as well as an unmodified FTP and I can't really notice any difference in performance.

KastorVGF wrote>
QuoteEventually, I have finished it this afternoon. It is not too difficult but you do need tools to do this (I do this in the Lab. of my university xD).
But I must say, as utensil, this adapter give a extremely good result!! I use this with the Graph Tech Ghost Hexpander system which is much better than the origin magnetic hex-pickup!!
Thank you for this post as searching from Google, here is the only place that teach people to make the adapter.
It is very easy to make it on your own, so check this out if you are not satisfied with the magnetic PU!!
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2702015%2F1443481845_1705725055_Photo481461224pm.jpg&hash=5377e649b2637d3bff23529ae467883e9f804245)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2702015%2F1443481850_1658342457_Photo481461407pm.jpg&hash=aa434c6c2fdfe0c96fdf3082cd4f0da8cd92c3f8)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2702015%2F1443482102_1589906636_Photo28714115124am.jpg&hash=6750488569425ba40b95768f6f62dc167eaf07ad)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2702015%2F1443482098_80536520_Photo28714115409am.jpg&hash=9a0526e8faf8b4563e4376a13f3d6cc915f6695e)


---

My 2 cents - the final design should provide

+7VDC  @ 250mA  on Pin #12,

and

-7VDC  @ 250mA on pin #13

to power a GK-2A / GK-3
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv248%2Fpeterstewartwarmington%2Fjazzstrat%2FHex%2520Pup%2520Project%2Fgk2schem1.jpg&hash=20bc123c9c8c9a5cf60f6fcf598e975c3c9cb123)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on September 28, 2015, 04:16:10 PM
What are the 6 chips in the schematic
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 04:17:55 PM
QuoteWhat are the 6 chips in the schematic

Bourns 3296 10K Potentiometers
https://www.bourns.com/pdfs/3296.pdf (https://www.bourns.com/pdfs/3296.pdf)


all info is back on Page 2
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.25 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.25)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on September 28, 2015, 04:32:59 PM
Anybody knows the attenuation level set with the pots? I mean, does it really need to be pots in there? Wouldn't fixed resistor dividers giving same attenuation on all strings do well?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 04:36:22 PM
The Pots are required because the output gain sensitivity is different for the popular 13 pin GK Preamps:

* GK-2A

* GK-3

*  RMC Piezo

* Ghost Piezo

each have different output gain
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on September 28, 2015, 04:50:01 PM
Quote from: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 04:36:22 PM
The Pots are required because the output gain sensitivity is different if you have GK-2A vs GK-3 vs RMC Piezo vs Ghost Piezo - each have different output gain
Aha...So a six channel pot would be great  ;D or a six channel volume chip controlled by one DC level (one knob), or a six-channel chip controlled by a tiny PIC. Stop! Now we're getting into work mode again :P.

Maybe the six pots, two connectors and two linear chips making +/-7V out of a 12V supply is just what the doctor ordered.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on September 28, 2015, 04:52:17 PM
"Aha...So a six channel pot would be great  ;D or a six channel volume chip controlled by one DC level (one knob), or a six-channel chip controlled by a tiny PIC. Stop! Now we're getting into work mode again :P.



...just keep taking the tablets, ok?    :-*
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on September 28, 2015, 04:55:29 PM
Quote from: gumbo on September 28, 2015, 04:52:17 PM
...just keep taking the tablets, ok?    :-*
You're right. Elantric can do the PCB tonight, I should really get some sleep now.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 04:56:58 PM



AD5263 = 4 digipots per chip and runs on +/-7.5 VDC ( same as GK-3) $7.00 /ea
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AD5263BRUZ20-REEL7/AD5263BRUZ20-REEL7CT-ND/2526840?WT.srch=1 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/AD5263BRUZ20-REEL7/AD5263BRUZ20-REEL7CT-ND/2526840?WT.srch=1)

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5263.pdf (http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5263.pdf)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2702015%2F1443484624_1529958835_AD5263.PNG&hash=667c248fe7336a142d24628caddb2531982a1e1f)

Typical AD5263 design

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2702015%2F1443484458_1729865023_digipot.PNG&hash=52b82652b8427ab1408c54b46c5fb9d67d4c6eb9)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Piplodocus on September 28, 2015, 05:25:45 PM
Great, thanks for the circuit diagram, especially with the 13-pin pinout. It'll be a massive help once I get that one going.

I gather the 9V is needed to power some of the Graphtech Hexaphonic then, even though there's already a 9V in mine for the Acoustiphonic bit?

On a related note I've already built an FTP into my Parker MIDI fly. It works, but it's a different kettle of fish as there's no 13-pin in it anywhere and it's all wired off the piezo buffer. It's currently a bit jumpy and has a habit of playing a note up sometimes or occasionally jumping an octave (even though the guitar's in tune). I used 50k pots though so I'm wondering if I use a 10k if the extra loading might help it a bit, although my gut instinct is it'd roll off the fundamental more if there's a later in-line decoupling cap (would form a HPF - but this is guess work and anything could be happening tbh). Anyone have a particular reasoning for 10k, or did it just seem a nice not-too-high, not too-low value? It might be that I have bad MIDI guitar technique though as I haven't played much MIDI guitar before, so maybe I'm being heavy handed, even though I'm trying not to be.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 05:30:27 PM
QuoteI gather the 9V is needed to power some of the Graphtech Hexaphonic then, even though there's already a 9V in mine for the Acoustiphonic bit?

Actually most GK13 pin preamps require DC power from the Host GK processor ( GR-55, GP-10, VG-99, etc) and in this setup feeding the FTP Controller's hex Mag Input connection- that  power is missing

On the GK13 pin connection:
pin #12  must have +7VDC
pin #13  must have -7VDC

this is true for Roland , Axon, Yamaha, Godin /RMC Piezo, Carvin Ghost Piezos = all are powered from the GK13 pin cable

Internal Batteries on those instruments are for the separate 1/4" mono Piezo Output   
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 05:34:09 PM
10K Pot is suitable because the hex preamp Opamp buffer output signal fed to the GK-13 Instrument Output on GK-2A, GK-3, RMC , Ghost, etc, -  is typically 100 ohms (or less) impedance 
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FGK-3_zps389eff64.png&hash=87634f9ae20b5237f4506117acd54aea8b8ba442)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv248%2Fpeterstewartwarmington%2Fjazzstrat%2FHex%2520Pup%2520Project%2Fgk2schem1.jpg&hash=20bc123c9c8c9a5cf60f6fcf598e975c3c9cb123)

more here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2500.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2500.0)

QuoteIt's currently a bit jumpy and has a habit of playing a note up sometimes or occasionally jumping an octave (even though the guitar's in tune).

Sounds like you may be over driving the FTP preamp with too hot signal

be sure to check and reset the FTP String gain sensitivity in the FTP Control Panel 
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gizmag.com%2Ffishman-tripleplay-1.jpg%3Ffit%3Dcrop%26amp%3Bh%3D296%26amp%3Bw%3D296%26amp%3Bs%3D16b04e83ecdd21ca73fe887338754e87&hash=0e9455fc8762b1879d468d81574d82ed403d04b4)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Piplodocus on September 28, 2015, 05:46:48 PM
Cool. Cheers. :)

I'm not sure if swapping from 50k to 10k will make much difference in the one I already tried. I might give it a go though. I figure if I get the new one working far better with this 13-pin adapter I might try adding some caps to the other one I've made since there's no filtering before the FTP in that, just straight off a unity gain piezo buffer, whereas I believe a standard 13-pin out is filtered to some extent?

Any idea what the Graphtech's "Traktion" switch does other than Graphtech's rather non-technical "make the Roland or Axon systems track better" depending on switch position?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Piplodocus on September 28, 2015, 05:49:57 PM
BTW, I checked the FTP levels and it didn't make much difference if I set the trim pots to give anywhere loud being from quite low up to the hot. Hence why I might need some caps for filtering since that's a bit of a different beast.  :-\

Thanks for that GK schematic too. I'll look at the cap/resitor values and see if I can derive some useful filtering ideas at some point when I get chance.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 05:55:20 PM
QuoteAny idea what the Graphtech's "Traktion" switch does other than Graphtech's rather non-technical "make the Roland or Axon systems track better" depending on switch position?

I understand its Gain Boost - use the position that works best for you.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on September 28, 2015, 07:29:24 PM
FWIW, when I get a chance to redo mine I was planning on using these http://www.ebay.com/itm/201403106341?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/201403106341?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)

as they have the added advantage of being hand adjustable.  If planning on using it consistently with the same guitar then you wouldn't have to adjust it much as once set it's fine but I've found that the outputs are slightly different between my 3 Graphtech hexpanded guitars (2 even have the exact same bridge). The balance between the 6 strings is also variable hence needing separate adjustments for each string. On one of my guitars, I barely need to trim the high e but on others I need to set the trim pot about half way. In Nutshell , each guitar needs a distinct unique setting that remains consistent for that guitar.

Possibly would be cool to use a teensy, digital pots and be able to save settings to "presets" selectable with a rotary knob or something.

Coincidently just came across a tutorial on using a 6 channel digital pot (http://datasheet.octopart.com/AD5206BRU10-Analog-Devices-datasheet-8405.pdf (http://datasheet.octopart.com/AD5206BRU10-Analog-Devices-datasheet-8405.pdf))

with arduino based boards.  https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/DigitalPotControl (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/DigitalPotControl)




Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 28, 2015, 07:47:11 PM
The trick would be have a stored memory setting  with MIDI control

- or even be able to change the gain on the fly

Why stop at feeding the FTP ?

Could feed Antares ATG DSP for a "RackVax" type experience


or install a Gk-13 Out put too  - and be able to dynamically change the gain for GR-300 vs Guitar to MIDI  - or add an LFO with waveform selection on one or two strings 

But this gets into Spicetone 6APPEAL territory

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on September 28, 2015, 10:34:44 PM
Quote from: utensil on September 28, 2015, 07:29:24 PM
Coincidently just came across a tutorial on using a 6 channel digital pot (http://datasheet.octopart.com/AD5206BRU10-Analog-Devices-datasheet-8405.pdf (http://datasheet.octopart.com/AD5206BRU10-Analog-Devices-datasheet-8405.pdf))

A very poor choice. The pot suggested cannot run on +/- 7 Volt. Only +/- 2.7V. That voltage swing will clip you GK signal. Need at least headroom for +/- 5V with GK. I've been down this road with my GKMX-33. Really recommend using the digital pot suggested by Elantric.

Note also: placing a any computer near these lines and especially if powered from the same power source may introduce noise on the GK signal. GK is very sensitive on voltage fluctuations of the +/-7V, any change is audible.

Another non-computerized way is using a rotary switch on the outside and internally there's 2, 3 or 4 banks/sets of 6x trimmer pots. Simple 40XX CMOS switches connects one of the trim pot banks center pins to the hex output.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on September 29, 2015, 02:51:43 AM
Quote from: CodeSmart on September 28, 2015, 10:34:44 PM
A very poor choice. The pot suggested cannot run on +/- 7 Volt. Only +/- 2.7V. That voltage swing will clip you GK signal. Need at least headroom for +/- 5V with GK. I've been down this road with my GKMX-33. Really recommend using the digital pot suggested by Elantric.

Note also: placing a any computer near these lines and especially if powered from the same power source may introduce noise on the GK signal. GK is very sensitive on voltage fluctuations of the +/-7V, any change is audible.

Another non-computerized way is using a rotary switch on the outside and internally there's 2, 3 or 4 banks/sets of 6x trimmer pots. Simple 40XX CMOS switches connects one of the trim pot banks center pins to the hex output.

Good to know. I had assumed that the wipers and pot pins were isolated from the rest of the circuit, i.e I thought it works just like an analog pot but instead of mechanically turning the pot it could be digitally controlled.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: neshel on October 30, 2015, 12:12:34 PM
I'm not understanding why you want to do this.....just so everything on your guitar is wireless through the TP?.....
Title: Re: 13 Pin to FTP adapter
Post by: susbemol on December 31, 2015, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: Elantric on November 26, 2014, 04:05:22 PM
For those of us with multiple 13 pin guitars - its more attractive to place the FTP Controller down on the floor, and use a US-20 A/B/Y 13 selector for control

This is exactly what I would like to achieve, only using one of @CodeSmart's GKPX-14 boxes instead of a US-20. I will probably be giving this a go myself.

To be honest, I am quite surprised that nobody has produced a product for this purpose. The mod described here sounds good but obviously not for everyone.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on January 01, 2016, 05:27:29 PM
Could I just ask you clever people to clarify whether this mod would be wired exactly the same as previously described here if I'd like to use it with a internal GK3 kit and GKPX-14 box (similar to a US-20 in functionality)? I assume that I wouldn't need to wire a battery to mine but I would love to hear your comments.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on January 02, 2016, 01:22:22 AM
Quote from: susbemol on January 01, 2016, 05:27:29 PM
I'd like to use it with a internal GK3 kit and GKPX-14 box (similar to a US-20 in functionality)? I assume that I wouldn't need to wire a battery to mine but I would love to hear your comments.

If you connect GKA to Roland synth unit it will provide power to the GK equipped guitar and the GKPX-14 unit itself. However on GKB there will be no +7 and -7 volts available. On GKB, GKC and GKD the power terminals (pin 12, 13) are connected via a a large resistor to ground.

If GKA is not connected to a synth unit, instead consider getting two pcs cheap stepwise adjustable DC wall units 5,7,9,12V and a 13-pin male plug connector to provide +/-7V power to the GKA connector of the GKPX-14.

The outlined FTP mod with pots and FTP etc could be implemented as described earlier on any of the GKA-GKD outputs.

Batteries sucks...
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on January 02, 2016, 02:05:42 PM
That's great, thanks for confirming that. I plan on using the GKA output with a GP-10, GKB with a GI-20 and GKC with the TriplePlay so no need for the battery which is excellent news.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on January 02, 2016, 03:41:23 PM
Quote from: susbemol on January 02, 2016, 02:05:42 PM
That's great, thanks for confirming that. I plan on using the GKA output with a GP-10, GKB with a GI-20 and GKC with the TriplePlay so no need for the battery which is excellent news.
You'll be doing just fine  ;D
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on January 02, 2016, 04:06:51 PM
By the way, I haven't seen any values suggested for the coupling capacitors... have I missed that?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplayok
Post by: CodeSmart on January 02, 2016, 04:55:19 PM
Quote from: susbemol on January 02, 2016, 04:06:51 PM
By the way, I haven't seen any values suggested for the coupling capacitors... have I missed that?
I wonder if they are needed at all....the GK-3 will swing the hex voltages around +/- 0V, with virtually no DC offset. If,...of some reason needed, probably 470nF -> 4.7uF (plastic film or bipolar electrolytic cap) is ok enough for guitar frequencies when input impedance > 50K ohms.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gitarrensalat on January 11, 2016, 08:51:44 AM
Hi,

I just ordered the FTP, can't wait to test it with my Strat.

I also would like to connect my Godin Multiac Nylon via 13 pin, but don't want to take the FTP apart. I'm  looking for a non-destructive method.

My idea was to use 6 coils to feed the FTP hex pickup inductively. Layout like a pickup, but sending instead of receiving. Will this fail due to crosstalk? If not, what coil would be the best?

I'm skilled to build such a thing, but I don't have any experience with electromagnetic stuff. I will probably get uncontrolled oscillations with a regular OpAmp, when I try to drive an inductive load like this. Is there a simple one chip solution for this?

Chris
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on January 11, 2016, 09:01:53 AM
While I don't know if that would work but if you get this connector

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-JST-1-5-ZH-8-Pin-Connector-Plug-with-Wire-x-10-sets-/111380528002?hash=item19eecbfb82 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-JST-1-5-ZH-8-Pin-Connector-Plug-with-Wire-x-10-sets-/111380528002?hash=item19eecbfb82)

And make your adapter with it , you can easily disconnect the triple magnetic pickup and plug this is by only removing 3 screws . It would be completely reversible (non destructive) though technically voiding your warranty. If something goes wrong with the adapter you can abandon it and go back to the original pickup.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gitarrensalat on January 11, 2016, 11:17:18 AM
Thank you for the link! Maybe I will follow your proposal, when I'm confident that I want to keep the FTP.

I want to avoid breaking any warranty seal. I did this once and was regretting it afterwards.

Another point is: I could leave the hex pickup attached and quickly switch between my inductive adapter and the Strat.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on January 14, 2016, 09:03:47 PM
This is a 6-channel pot in an IC, no?

http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_power/FM125/CL935/SC913/PF74850 (http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_power/FM125/CL935/SC913/PF74850)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on January 15, 2016, 05:46:36 AM
Quote from: drbill on January 14, 2016, 09:03:47 PM
This is a 6-channel pot in an IC, no?

http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_power/FM125/CL935/SC913/PF74850 (http://www.st.com/web/catalog/sense_power/FM125/CL935/SC913/PF74850)

Yes it is. Unfortunately it doesn't run dual rail on +/- 7 V
Looks like it only allow positive supply. You need caps on all inputs and outputs.
You need at least 10V supply as GK is pretty high voltage. With lover powering voltage, inputs may get clipped.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on January 19, 2016, 05:29:10 AM
I finished building mine and it is all working really well so far. :) Thanks again, CodeSmart and the others for the help.

I've written a blog entry with more details here: http://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor

(https://guitarsandsynths.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/gk_to_ftp_adaptor_5.jpg)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on January 19, 2016, 05:37:47 AM
Hey this looks great, how are you powering the preamp , I don't see any batteries? Or are you using another GK device simultaneously?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on January 19, 2016, 05:44:01 AM
Yeah, I'm using one of CodeSmart's nifty boxes to split the signal from the guitar between a GP-10, a GI-20 and now the TriplePlay.

The preamp gets powered by the first unit connected to the box, in my case that's the GP-10.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on January 19, 2016, 06:25:34 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on January 19, 2016, 06:28:13 AM
Quote from: CodeSmart on January 15, 2016, 05:46:36 AM
Yes it is. Unfortunately it doesn't run dual rail on +/- 7 V
Looks like it only allow positive supply. You need caps on all inputs and outputs.
You need at least 10V supply as GK is pretty high voltage. With lover powering voltage, inputs may get clipped.

The caps aren't so much a problem as the voltage. I would want something that runs on either a USB or GK supply voltage.  :(

Too bad, because this looks pretty easy to integrate.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on January 19, 2016, 07:48:52 AM
QuoteThe caps aren't so much a problem as the voltage. I would want something that runs on either a USB or GK supply voltage.


FWIW - I have designed gear with digipot IC's that can adjust analog signals that swing +7V to -7V  - yet they are powered by a single 5VDC voltage rail and can be interfaced  with 3.3V logic - Intersil and Exar supply these

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Intersil/X9C103SIZ/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuD%2f7PTYBwKqSpQl7USA1PmmCjNJBjODzg%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Intersil/X9C103SIZ/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuD%2f7PTYBwKqSpQl7USA1PmmCjNJBjODzg%3d)

Intersil X9C103 is the 10K version
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/465/x9c102-103-104-503-555255.pdf (http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/465/x9c102-103-104-503-555255.pdf)

or

Intersil# X9C303S8Z
http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/x9c3/x9c303.pdf (http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/x9c3/x9c303.pdf)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alancarl on February 05, 2016, 05:38:03 PM
Quote from: CodeSmart on January 02, 2016, 04:55:19 PM
I wonder if they are needed at all....the GK-3 will swing the hex voltages around +/- 0V, with virtually no DC offset. If,...of some reason needed, probably 470nF -> 4.7uF (plastic film or bipolar electrolytic cap) is ok enough for guitar frequencies when input impedance > 50K ohms.

Hi everybody,
      I am wanting to try to drive my FTP and RR Strat from the RR hex pickup...
Do I need to worry about DC offsets and blocking caps when I am just y'ing the internal hex pup's outputs to both preamps inputs?
This was suggested very early on in this thread but as many people wanted to be able to grab the hex audio signal After the 13 pin GK preamping, the majority of the discussion was around this method.
Thanks,
Al
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on February 05, 2016, 05:53:36 PM
The reports are a simple Y cable works  - no DC blocking capacitors needed

this is often the case for me and my busy schedule - I often brainstorm here on the forum, but someone else takes the lead and actually connects the hardware and reports back their findings

Read this thread
FTP - Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0)
Quote
Re: FTP - Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 08:56:48 AM »
ReplyQuoteModifyModifyRemoveRemoveSplit TopicSplit Topic
it works  this is too cool you can plug a a gk-3 wort board straight into a fishman triple play oem and share the fishman pickup between the the roland and the ftp how cool is that i had a 4 inch long male to male 8 pin plug cable from a g5 pickguard that i bought with pickup and wiring that was too easy
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alancarl on February 05, 2016, 07:22:58 PM
Thanks Steve,
       I did find the strat FTP GK thread that you pointed out right after I posted my question.
The FTP strat looks pretty cool--a mirror image of what I did to my RR strat awhile ago...I just haven't fired up both systems simultaneously...I just wanted a strat with the FTP and the first gen FTP pickup wasn't going to cooperate for me in this so...
I'm looking for a good deal on a FTP strat so the GAS continues!
Thanks again Steve,
Al
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on March 07, 2016, 02:43:31 PM
Hm...I just bought a FTP and rather not have it mounted on any guitar. I want to run it using the GK cable from one of my GK guitars.

Thinking about wrapping together a real PCB at some point.

Either Micro JST 1.5 ZH 8-Pin Connector Plug w/.Wire from eBay hanging out from the board,
or Gumbo do you have 13-pin GK female to micro JST solution for me?

Q-Will it be possible to close the FTP enclosure? I opened up the FTP and its a bit tight in there :o
Q-Has anyone fed attenuated Piezo into the FTP?
Q-It would be great if it's possible to hack the FTP volume so it can be controlled by the GK VOL 0-5V signal. Anyone done that?

Probably add two regulators to create proper +/-7V from an optional 12VDC adapter (9VDC will not be enough) in case GK OUT is unconnected + the 6 six attenuation pots as outlined in this thread.

GK IN
GK THRU
GK FTP ( or 8-cable JST wire set).
6 pots
12VDC connector
12V->7V regulator
12V->-7V regulator
4 Schottky diodes
A few caps and a few resistors for regulators to give noise free DC at desired voltage.

We'll see...time is rare.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on March 07, 2016, 03:24:52 PM
Quote from: CodeSmart on March 07, 2016, 02:43:31 PM
Hm...I just bought a FTP and rather not have it mounted on any guitar. I want to run it using the GK cable from one of my GK guitars.

Thinking about wrapping together a real PCB at some point.

Either Micro JST 1.5 ZH 8-Pin Connector Plug w/.Wire from eBay hanging out from the board,
or Gumbo do you have 13-pin GK female to micro JST solution for me?



Certainly...let's talk!   ;D


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on March 14, 2016, 12:13:19 PM
Hey I've initially setup my adapter so the gk side is connected to the center pins of the trim pots,(like everyone else it appears) would it be exactly the same if I had put the FTP side on the center pin instead?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on March 14, 2016, 12:50:11 PM
QuoteHey I've initially setup my adapter so the gk side is connected to the center pins of the trim pots,(like everyone else it appears)

You should be connecting the Potentiometer's  center pin (Potentiometer "Wiper" Pin#2) to the Output side - sending signal to the FTP Control board hex PU connector destination 
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F732016%2F1457985159_679153166_Photo28714115409am.jpg&hash=c628c4ba3f2c247217683b241acf77c3b7816d34)

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on March 14, 2016, 07:50:16 PM
Yes this is what I think just occurred to me when I have been working on a new adapter as I intend to share it with my GP 10. Looking at most of the posted pics of everyones DIY and my own first adapter I think we've done it the other way.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: GuitarBuilder on March 14, 2016, 08:43:01 PM
Quote from: CodeSmart on March 07, 2016, 02:43:31 PM
Hm...I just bought a FTP and rather not have it mounted on any guitar. I want to run it using the GK cable from one of my GK guitars.

Thinking about wrapping together a real PCB at some point.

Either Micro JST 1.5 ZH 8-Pin Connector Plug w/.Wire from eBay hanging out from the board,
or Gumbo do you have 13-pin GK female to micro JST solution for me?

Q-Will it be possible to close the FTP enclosure? I opened up the FTP and its a bit tight in there :o
Q-Has anyone fed attenuated Piezo into the FTP?
Q-It would be great if it's possible to hack the FTP volume so it can be controlled by the GK VOL 0-5V signal. Anyone done that?

Probably add two regulators to create proper +/-7V from an optional 12VDC adapter (9VDC will not be enough) in case GK OUT is unconnected + the 6 six attenuation pots as outlined in this thread.

GK IN
GK THRU
GK FTP ( or 8-cable JST wire set).
6 pots
12VDC connector
12V->7V regulator
12V->-7V regulator
4 Schottky diodes
A few caps and a few resistors for regulators to give noise free DC at desired voltage.

We'll see...time is rare.

How about interfacing directly with an FC-1?  If you are running a GK cable from the guitar anyway it would seem superfluous to have a wireless FTP connection, right?  How about a straight USB connection from the FTP board?
Title: Re: FTP FC-1 & GR-55
Post by: BurninBen on July 01, 2016, 10:25:36 PM
I'm thinking about getting a Godin Montreal Premier TP & FC-1.  Anyone know if I can connect the FC-1 to my GR-55?  Or if not, can I use a different controller instead of or in addition to the FC-1?  I'd like to have a few more foot switches, expression pedals, but most importantly the ability to tweak sounds on stage without bringing a computer.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Marin on December 08, 2016, 10:10:09 AM
Hi!

This thread is very interesting to me because I own Godin Multiac Nylon SA and Roland GR55, but I'm not really happy with Roland, especially considering comparisons with FTP, which to me seems as much better solution for guitar-to-MIDI.
At first, I thought that I don't have any choice except to stick with Roland, but this thread has opened my eyes for new possibilites!  ;D

But! After reading all posts in this thread, apart from seeing that a few of you that really made this GK13->FTP adapter are happy with it, I haven't really seen any concrete info how this new systems behaves? Ofcourse, maybe I have skipped some posts, if so, please point me to them. Especially if someone has made video!

The most important thing for me to know is what difference in tracking performance do you notice?
For instance, I'm a bit disappointed in results with my Godin - Roland combination regarding lower two strings (especially low E).
I'm unable to pluck low E in faster tempos (eighth notes at 100bpm) without having problems with tracking.

If I do this kind of adapter to FTP, will tracking results improve, or will it be the same?

Thank you very much!

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: utensil on December 08, 2016, 11:05:51 PM
I don't have any noticeable difference in performance between a regular ftp setup on a strat vs the ftp via 13 pin adapter on my godin multiac grand concert, both work equally well.

In addition , IMO any of the ftp options above are substantially better for triggering midi in comparison to the Roland gr55 and slightly better than the GP10 . The difference becomes more apparent on the lower 2 strings.  I.e yes the ftp should perform far better than the gr-55 which you will find confirmed in many places on this forum
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Marin on December 09, 2016, 08:32:07 AM
Since some of you have connected GK-3 directly to FTP and results are good, I wonder would it be possible to also connect GK-3B directly?
I know that guitar and bass are in different frequency range and that FTP is optimized for guitar, but still, could it work?
Has anyone tried that?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on December 09, 2016, 08:47:27 AM
FTP is not going to track Low bass notes  - it has a non user accessible input frequency cutoff filter

GR-55 remains an option for bass Players
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: chlorinemist on May 31, 2017, 09:04:11 AM
This is a cool idea. I wonder how my FTP would behave when driven by my Cycfi Nu. I could install a second 13 pin out into my nexus to feed the FTP and keep them rack mounted on a sliding shelf.

Quote from: Elantric on December 09, 2016, 08:47:27 AM
FTP is not going to track Low bass notes  - it has a non user accessible input frequency cutoff filter

GR-55 remains an option for bass Players

Thats disappointing to hear! I was planning to use it with my Bass VI to control the envelopes on my 6Appeal. Maybe now I really do need a Roland unit. Do they all do Midi mono mode? Is the GR-55's midi tracking noticeably better than, say, the GR-33? For my purposes triggering correct notes aren't necessarily a major concern. Acceptably low latency note on/off messages are what i'm primarily looking for.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on May 31, 2017, 09:14:59 AM
If your goal is using a bass to drive a roland GR Synth your only options are GR 55 in bass mode or GR 20 with updated firmware in bass mode

that's it

Or for VBass units (COSM MODELING /HRM Syth) get a VB-99 or VBass
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: GuitarBuilder on May 31, 2017, 09:27:31 AM
Quote from: chlorinemist on May 31, 2017, 09:04:11 AM
This is a cool idea. I wonder how my FTP would behave when driven by my Cycfi Nu. I could install a second 13 pin out into my nexus to feed the FTP and keep them rack mounted on a sliding shelf.

Thats disappointing to hear! I was planning to use it with my Bass VI to control the envelopes on my 6Appeal. Maybe now I really do need a Roland unit. Do they all do Midi mono mode? Is the GR-55's midi tracking noticeably better than, say, the GR-33? For my purposes triggering correct notes aren't necessarily a major concern. Acceptably low latency note on/off messages are what i'm primarily looking for.

A simple envelope follower with trigger and gate outputs is all you need.  Check out the Eurorack modular synth sites; here is the one I got:
https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html (https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: chlorinemist on May 31, 2017, 01:01:59 PM
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on May 31, 2017, 09:27:31 AM
A simple envelope follower with trigger and gate outputs is all you need.  Check out the Eurorack modular synth sites; here is the one I got:
https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html (https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html)

Interesting! I was just looking at eurorack stuff, toying with building rack with enough resonant filters to process 8 pickups at 2 different points in the signal chain. Ended up with this so far:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQUmfGYt.png&hash=e37cff83519d3431c46dc6dde8de50d8a824866a)

Would it really be as simple as you describe though? I'd think in order to utilize cv envelope triggers and gates to control the 6Appeal's envelope function I would need 6 envelope followers, a CV->MIDI interface and use software to translate the triggers and gates into note on/off data and send each module to a seperate midi channel. In theory that should be possible but I imagine this would be a much more complicated method to achieve something that might be done better and cheaper with a GR55. I have zero real world experience with modular and CV based gear though so if I'm totally wrong I'd love to be enlightened
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on May 31, 2017, 01:08:49 PM
Quote
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on May 31, 2017, 09:27:31 AM
A simple envelope follower with trigger and gate outputs is all you need.  Check out the Eurorack modular synth sites; here is the one I got:
https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html (https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/envelop-follower-module.html)

Interesting! I was just looking at eurorack stuff, toying with building rack with enough resonant filters to process 8 pickups at 2 different points in the signal chain. Ended up with this so far:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQUmfGYt.png&hash=e37cff83519d3431c46dc6dde8de50d8a824866a)

Would it really be as simple as you describe though? I'd think in order to utilize cv envelope triggers and gates to control the 6Appeal's envelope function I would need 6 envelope followers, a CV->MIDI interface and use software to translate the triggers and gates into note on/off data and send each module to a seperate midi channel. In theory that should be possible but I imagine this would be a much more complicated method to achieve something that might be done better and cheaper with a GR55. I have zero real world experience with modular and CV based gear though so if I'm totally wrong I'd love to be enlightened

KORG X-911  = Another piece of gear that converts guitar to CV/Gate for driving 500 series synths modules
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-3uGH0veo-XY%2FUUyLqerD_RI%2FAAAAAAAG1uc%2FYSt9Erde9cM%2Fs1600%2F%24T2eC16J%2C%21zoE9s5nd03MBRTIE%2CMCKQ%7E%7E60_57.JPG&hash=850823e34e230cb9c6fc8d60854e46f1e4f203b9)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-jvjH9u2Ljt8%2FUUyLqF3XUKI%2FAAAAAAAG1uU%2FBt199rTATu0%2Fs1600%2F%24T2eC16N%2C%21zcE9s4g099eBRTIFnj%29I%21%7E%7E60_57.JPG&hash=deb0315a86aab11f028e97815602240275094629)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-rehvA6VBcsA%2FUUyLqnGwsRI%2FAAAAAAAG1ug%2F8vTByNmePJs%2Fs1600%2F%24T2eC16Z%2C%21%298E9s4l8%218%28BRTIEon3oQ%7E%7E60_57.JPG&hash=eedba3b1f6ab9fcefb60125764ba4d815149be4a)

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2013/03/korg-x-911-vintage-analog-guitar-synth.html

Quote"Early guitar/ synth tech! You can plug a guitar in as intended & trigger the 2 banks of sounds, which can be used together in any combination. 3-postion octave switch, Interval knob for detuning, Filter knob & auto-wah effect & a Portamento function, too.

Loads of sockets for interconnectivity, including CV & Gate Ins & Outs- so you could hook it up to your Hz/V synths, allowing you to use this as an expander module for an MS10, for example, adding 2 more oscillators, or to trigger your Yamaha CS synth from a guitar. Of course, you can also plug in another source, say a drum machine to the Guitar in socket, there is a knob & switch for various Input levels."



or a Doepfer A-100
https://youtu.be/nVb_izldjgk

http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: GuitarBuilder on May 31, 2017, 02:52:12 PM
Quote from: chlorinemist on May 31, 2017, 01:01:59 PM
Interesting! I was just looking at eurorack stuff, toying with building rack with enough resonant filters to process 8 pickups at 2 different points in the signal chain. Ended up with this so far:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FQUmfGYt.png&hash=e37cff83519d3431c46dc6dde8de50d8a824866a)

Would it really be as simple as you describe though? I'd think in order to utilize cv envelope triggers and gates to control the 6Appeal's envelope function I would need 6 envelope followers, a CV->MIDI interface and use software to translate the triggers and gates into note on/off data and send each module to a seperate midi channel. In theory that should be possible but I imagine this would be a much more complicated method to achieve something that might be done better and cheaper with a GR55. I have zero real world experience with modular and CV based gear though so if I'm totally wrong I'd love to be enlightened

I am using the standard guitar pickups (in my case Cycfi Research passive XR Dual Flex) to generate the overall signal envelope and trigger.  I don't think it's necessary to have an EF for each string.  My hex pickup (Cycfi Research Nu Multi 6) signal is routed directly into 6APPEAL, while the guitar signal goes to the envelope follower.  It simplifies matters considerably.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: chlorinemist on June 06, 2017, 08:10:36 PM
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on May 31, 2017, 02:52:12 PM
I am using the standard guitar pickups (in my case Cycfi Research passive XR Dual Flex) to generate the overall signal envelope and trigger.  I don't think it's necessary to have an EF for each string.  My hex pickup (Cycfi Research Nu Multi 6) signal is routed directly into 6APPEAL, while the guitar signal goes to the envelope follower.  It simplifies matters considerably.

Good to hear. I found a few pedals that might be suitable for this purpose
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-EW0_ZyI3qZc%2FVJdhPe0iA0I%2FAAAAAAAJMcU%2FnOrZWG8mOwA%2Fs640%2Fepsilon1.jpg&hash=2067763312bdb86106fabcb16359b9593a6d26ba)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.schneidersladen.de%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2F1%2F6%2F160116_1.jpg&hash=c672d244f6968fc4b1b7471caa35285765545d0f)
(https://www.moogmusic.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/730x490scale/product/Moogerfooger_MF-101_Low%20Pass%20Filter_2.jpg)

It seems like the best way to go about itt would be to use the envelope out from one of these and convert it to note on/off messages with Expert Sleepers Silent Way software. Or do you have another method for getting CV/gate signals to communicate with 6Appeal's MIDI input?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: GuitarBuilder on June 06, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
Quote from: chlorinemist on June 06, 2017, 08:10:36 PM
Good to hear. I found a few pedals that might be suitable for this purpose
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-EW0_ZyI3qZc%2FVJdhPe0iA0I%2FAAAAAAAJMcU%2FnOrZWG8mOwA%2Fs640%2Fepsilon1.jpg&hash=2067763312bdb86106fabcb16359b9593a6d26ba)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.schneidersladen.de%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2F1%2F6%2F160116_1.jpg&hash=c672d244f6968fc4b1b7471caa35285765545d0f)
(https://www.moogmusic.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/730x490scale/product/Moogerfooger_MF-101_Low%20Pass%20Filter_2.jpg)

It seems like the best way to go about itt would be to use the envelope out from one of these and convert it to note on/off messages with Expert Sleepers Silent Way software. Or do you have another method for getting CV/gate signals to communicate with 6Appeal's MIDI input?

Either the MIDI module in the Nexus box or a CV-MIDI Eurorack module will work.  For the former you can use one of the rear inputs on Nexus.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Smash on June 07, 2017, 03:24:42 AM
Quote from: susbemol on January 19, 2016, 05:29:10 AM
I finished building mine and it is all working really well so far. :) Thanks again, CodeSmart and the others for the help.

I've written a blog entry with more details here: http://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor

(https://guitarsandsynths.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/gk_to_ftp_adaptor_5.jpg)

Did you ever do the tracking comparisons? I'm sure there are a few people who'd be interested

Also what resistance did the trim pots generally end up at?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on June 07, 2017, 04:05:39 AM
I did some initial comparisons which showed the FTP to be quite a bit better than my other devices (GP-10 and GI-20). The interesting part was that the GI-20 not only tracked better but it was faster than the GP-10 as well. I really should put something together at some point but haven't really had the time or inclination to do so since.

I am not sure what the actual resistance the pots ended up set at... I just set them all until I was getting a fairly healthy signal into the receiver from all strings. I works brilliantly and is by far the best pitch to MIDI setup I have used.
Title: Re: Fishman Triple Play 13 pin MOD experiments
Post by: steadystate on September 20, 2017, 11:44:56 PM
Sorry to raise such an old thread, but I'm currently splitting my GK for use with the FTP.  I am running the GK-3 into the GK preamp board (internal kit) and out the guitar's 13-pin connector using a standard Roland 13-pin cable.  Standard setup so far.  I will then plug the cable into a 13-pin splitter, one side going to a VG-99 and the other to an attenuator and Molex for the FTP.

My question is, do I really need 12 coupling caps?  It seems I should only need the 6 that feed the FTP.  As far as DC is concerned, the FTP branch is an open circuit.  Thoughts?

Quote from: Elantric on April 22, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
But I would prefer a method where I could feed the 13 pin gear along with the wireless MIDI from FTP.

                           |---->GK-3 -> 13pin
One hex PU 8 pin---|
                           |---->FTP controller > wireless MIDI

and the "Y" Adapter could be very straight forward.

Mount one hex PU of choice( FTP, GK-3, GK-2A, G1D, PU100, AIX-101) Let the stock Hex PU Cable be the input to the Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" to feed two targets.

On this  Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" there MUST be 12 "coupling capacitors": 
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on FTP Controller.
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on the GK3 preamp target.
The 12 Capacitors are required to prevent DC voltage interference and offsets between the two different systems.
Small Surface Mount caps are available, but must be of adequate capacity to pass the low fundamental frequencies of the Guitar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling)

(https://s6.postimg.cc/w064p7zb5/GK3_PUP8_POSPlug_zpsb3e3aaf9.jpg)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Elantric on September 21, 2017, 06:22:21 AM
QuoteSorry to raise such an old thread, but I'm currently splitting my GK for use with the FTP.  I am running the GK-3 into the GK preamp board (internal kit) and out the guitar's 13-pin connector using a standard Roland 13-pin cable.  Standard setup so far.  I will then plug the cable into a 13-pin splitter, one side going to a VG-99 and the other to an attenuator and Molex for the FTP.

My question is, do I really need 12 coupling caps?  It seems I should only need the 6 that feed the FTP.  As far as DC is concerned, the FTP branch is an open circuit.  Thoughts?

You are describing a completely different topology  - you are feeding the FTP DSP board not from the GK PU output, but After the GK-3 preamp 13 pin output  -
So you should follow the design member "Utensil"  has successfully employed with passive attenuator trimmer pots as detailed here: 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=post;msg=78842;topic=8413.25
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F832016%2F1458779570_1458131138_photo1.JPG&hash=8b03101ed8fdcc5e6bd82d721c741b6d4f91c885)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F832016%2F1458779566_995692286_photo2.JPG&hash=cff92448f4552cad51cd727a90aed7063c1bb2c4)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F832016%2F1458779562_1797688622_photo3.JPG&hash=cbf19c050889e0e7d961606e1c8ead1b68658936)


this is very different than using one GK PU to feed both GK-3 and FTP as described below:

QuoteBut I would prefer a method where I could feed the 13 pin gear along with the wireless MIDI from FTP.

                           |---->GK-3 -> 13pin
One hex PU 8 pin---|
                           |---->FTP controller > wireless MIDI

and the "Y" Adapter could be very straight forward.

Mount one hex PU of choice( FTP, GK-3, GK-2A, G1D, PU100, AIX-101) Let the stock Hex PU Cable be the input to the Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" to feed two targets.

On this  Custom Mag Hex PU "Y-Splitter" there MUST be 12 "coupling capacitors": 
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on FTP Controller.
* Six Caps to feed the Hex PU String Inputs on the GK3 preamp target.
The 12 Capacitors are required to prevent DC voltage interference and offsets between the two different systems.
Small Surface Mount caps are available, but must be of adequate capacity to pass the low fundamental frequencies of the Guitar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: steadystate on September 21, 2017, 07:16:55 AM
So, no caps then.  Fantastic.  Thanks.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: scratch17 on November 14, 2017, 03:47:16 PM
@utensil said:

QuoteI was really pleasantly surprised to find that the RMC system on my Godin Grand Concert (2008 polydrive) guitar outputs individual string signals even with the battery REMOVED. My Graphtech guitars have absolutely no signal output when not powered.

3) The output from the Godin's 13 pin UNPOWERED RMC polydrive is in the right range and can be plugged directly into the triple play.THIS IS GREAT NEWS!! a direct 13 pin to FTP adapter can be made and is just a matter of connecting wires and requires no additional batteries , trimpots etc.

I am confused (my normal state). Are you saying that I could unplug the battery in my RMC equipped Brian Moore i213 and connect the Triple Play directly with no need for trim pots? But with the battery installed output would need to be attenuated with trim pots.

2. In order to use the FTP and a VG-99 simultaneously, I would need trim pots.

I would like to be able to use both at the same time. Adding trim pots is not a really big deal, so that is what I will do. I will use my RMC Fanout Box to split the 13 pin signal.

                                               --> VG-99
GK output --> RMC Fanout Box |
                                               --> FTP adapter with trim pots
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: chrish on November 14, 2017, 05:13:18 PM
The low Tech Solution of course is just to have two hex pickups on the guitar,  one FTP and one Gk3. Easy.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on November 15, 2017, 01:16:18 AM
Here is a stripboard layout I created which could be useful to anyone else looking to build a box like mine:

(https://i.imgur.com/WUzzPUU.png)

I actually used a very similar solution to connect a 13-pin signal to an old (and broken!) GK1 pickup so I could use my modern GK equipped guitar with a real, vintage GR300. That works great too:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ckrzyox.jpg)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Bruce Hugo on January 30, 2018, 03:16:36 PM
Man, when I read DIY forums, I begin to question how I don't just die out due to natural selection.

So, if I owned a Godin Grand Concert SA guitar, a Fishman Triple Play, a 13 pin cable, and a 1.5mm 8 pin termination,
then all I'd need to do is:

open up the cable,
solder/crimp wires 1-6 to the 8 pin termination,
open the Triple play,
plug in both terminations,
and remove the battery from the guitar...? 

At which point I would have the best tracking nylon string midi guitar available?

Thanks in advance.

Also, my gratitude goes out to everyone who has worked and contributed to this wonderful endeavor.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: cags12 on February 03, 2018, 07:53:49 AM
Anyone in this long thread that made the mod and are no longer using the FTP Hex pickup.

Would you be interested in selling it to me for a reasonable price?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Vaultnaemsae on February 04, 2018, 07:16:56 AM
I might have one available next week. I'll keep you in the loop.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: cags12 on February 04, 2018, 07:22:07 AM
Quote from: Vaultnaemsae on February 04, 2018, 07:16:56 AM
I might have one available next week. I'll keep you in the loop.

Cool Thanks!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on February 04, 2018, 08:33:47 AM
Same here I have one completely updated complete withpedal steel program. I may sell. And just keep my internal kit
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on February 12, 2018, 12:37:25 PM
Quote from:  pksmith11
I've been reading this thread and think I understand what to do, but need a little guidance:

I want to drive the triple play with my Godin grand concert and use the note on/off messages to control envelopes on my 6appeal through one of codesmart's midi boxes, and also do the normal computer midi stuff.

To build the adapter I need to solder an attenuator in line with each of the 6 string channels and solder the lines from the mag input on the triple play to the 6 individual attenuators. Can anyone point me towards the correct attenuators and PCs board? I know it's all in this thread, but I keep getting lost scrolling through the pages. Thanks!

I suggest find a used Roland GR-33 - might be cheaper too.
https://reverb.com/p/roland-gr-33
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: pksmith11 on February 28, 2018, 08:24:17 PM
I realize some folks on this forum have tried this mod and tweaked it/honed it or moved on. I just got hip to this whole concept and created a box with trimpots to use with my Godin Grand Concert. My hopes were so high because the FTP works so well when set up out of the box. But I found that the crosstalk on my piezos driving the FTP made this completely unusable. Even with low sensitivity settings and volume trimmed way down there are just way too many false triggers. Has anybody overcome this issue with a Godin nylon? I soooooo want this to work but it looks like I may have to revert to using the ugly wart mounted on the top of my strat ☹️
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: MPDmike on March 01, 2018, 06:27:00 AM
Quote from: pksmith11 on February 28, 2018, 08:24:17 PM
I realize some folks on this forum have tried this mod and tweaked it/honed it or moved on. I just got hip to this whole concept and created a box with trimpots to use with my Godin Grand Concert. My hopes were so high because the FTP works so well when set up out of the box. But I found that the crosstalk on my piezos driving the FTP made this completely unusable. Even with low sensitivity settings and volume trimmed way down there are just way too many false triggers. Has anybody overcome this issue with a Godin nylon? I soooooo want this to work but it looks like I may have to revert to using the ugly wart mounted on the top of my strat ☹️

Being mainly a fingerstyle player, I also went for a nylon option with the Carvin NS1 and an Axon AX50, but I was never happy with the reliability due to mis-triggering and crosstalk, so I went on to buy a Tripleplay Strat.

Perhaps the problem is inherent in the combination of nylon strings and piezos? I wonder if any of the companies has researched how to isolate the piezo pickups from each other (maybe a re-designed bridge) and found a way to boost the plucked string transients while reducing the accidental noises we produce when moving our hands on the strings. I feel sure that there must be a technical solution available for nylon string players.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on March 01, 2018, 07:48:28 AM
QuotePerhaps the problem is inherent in the combination of nylon strings and piezos? I wonder if any of the companies has researched how to isolate the piezo pickups from each other (maybe a re-designed bridge)

Godin electrics with RMC piezos made after mid 2011 have improved lower crosstalk and built in EQ in the active RMC preamp to minimize low frequency rumbles.

I understand similar upgraded RMC electronics occurred in the Godin Nylon RMC Peizo guitars after 2013 

Not all Godins with RMC piezos are equal. 
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: pksmith11 on March 01, 2018, 11:52:38 AM
Can anybody else confirm plug and play success using a newer Godin nylon with their FTP adapter? Maybe I just need to upgrade to a newer model.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: ser.guitar on March 28, 2018, 09:24:18 AM
Hi all,

I am getting a guitar equipped with the internal GK kit, I have a GR-55 as well. I have read through this all thread, and what I think I have clear is how to make an adapter to that I can connect the 13 pin output of the guitar to a FTP. Now, I have a question that I did not find an answer for in the forum:

1.- My interest is in having a wireless system for the GK pickup, i.e. not needing the 13 pin cable between my guitar and the GR-55. Is that achievable with the FTP?, does anyone know of any solution for that?. What I was thinking is in sort of using the wireless transmitter and receiver of FTP and then apply it, but not sure from the receiver side in form of USB.

Thanks,
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on March 28, 2018, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: ser.guitar on March 28, 2018, 09:24:18 AM
Hi all,

I am getting a guitar equipped with the internal GK kit, I have a GR-55 as well. I have read through this all thread, and what I think I have clear is how to make an adapter to that I can connect the 13 pin output of the guitar to a FTP. Now, I have a question that I did not find an answer for in the forum:

1.- My interest is in having a wireless system for the GK pickup, i.e. not needing the 13 pin cable between my guitar and the GR-55. Is that achievable with the FTP?, does anyone know of any solution for that?. What I was thinking is in sort of using the wireless transmitter and receiver of FTP and then apply it, but not sure from the receiver side in form of USB.

Thanks,

A few are working on a Wireless GK 13 pin  - limited availability and high cost


Is WIRELESS GK3 PICKUP possible?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2588.0


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on March 28, 2018, 03:31:43 PM
My input: The FTP will never connect to the GR-55 wirelessly. You will need a 13-pin cable to connect your GK guitar to the GR-55 as all the rest of us. Any wireless solution is either illegal radio FM transmitters or just on the drawing board far from realization. Hard facts! Sorry.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on March 28, 2018, 03:35:42 PM
And the GR-55's internal PCM Synth sounds can NOT be triggered from the USB or 5 pin MIDI 

So even with a "USB Host to 5 pin MIDI adapter box
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.0

you can not use the GR-55 as a "MIDI TONE MODULE" for use with the Tripleplay + USB Host to 5 pin MIDI adapter box  , as you could with these


External multi-voice hardware Tone Generators for MIDI Guitarists
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=915.0
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: cags12 on March 31, 2018, 09:06:14 AM
Quote from: CodeSmart on March 07, 2016, 02:43:31 PM
Hm...I just bought a FTP and rather not have it mounted on any guitar. I want to run it using the GK cable from one of my GK guitars.

Thinking about wrapping together a real PCB at some point.

Either Micro JST 1.5 ZH 8-Pin Connector Plug w/.Wire from eBay hanging out from the board,
or Gumbo do you have 13-pin GK female to micro JST solution for me?

Q-Will it be possible to close the FTP enclosure? I opened up the FTP and its a bit tight in there :o
Q-Has anyone fed attenuated Piezo into the FTP?
Q-It would be great if it's possible to hack the FTP volume so it can be controlled by the GK VOL 0-5V signal. Anyone done that?

Probably add two regulators to create proper +/-7V from an optional 12VDC adapter (9VDC will not be enough) in case GK OUT is unconnected + the 6 six attenuation pots as outlined in this thread.

GK IN
GK THRU
GK FTP ( or 8-cable JST wire set).
6 pots
12VDC connector
12V->7V regulator
12V->-7V regulator
4 Schottky diodes
A few caps and a few resistors for regulators to give noise free DC at desired voltage.

We'll see...time is rare.

Hey Robert - Did you make any progress with this project?

I am realizing this would suit perfectly my needs on what was briefly discussed on the post below:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10935.msg168341#msg168341

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on March 31, 2018, 02:28:56 PM
No sorry. I opened up my FTP and thought it was pretty scary having customers doing the same thing to connect some device I made. Probable some of them would destroy the thing blaming me for it. It's really tiny and delicate in there. So I never pulled through  :P
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on March 31, 2018, 07:39:16 PM
Robert, I will definitely be following this, sounds like we both want the same thing
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jassy on May 25, 2018, 04:44:09 AM
I would be interested also in a device which would permet me to connect my 13 pin guitars (Go din and GK2/3 equipped) to my FTP.
, even if I have to open the FTP and unplug the actual cable connector and plug a new one (with the same socket as the original)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on May 25, 2018, 07:32:32 AM
Quote from: jassy on May 25, 2018, 04:44:09 AM
I would be interested also in a device which would permet me to connect my 13 pin guitars (Go din and GK2/3 equipped) to my FTP.
, even if I have to open the FTP and unplug the actual cable connector and plug a new one (with the same socket as the original)

Print this thread and give it a member of the local Robot CLUB or technician  and have them build you one 
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: GuitarBuilder on May 25, 2018, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: jassy on May 25, 2018, 04:44:09 AM
I would be interested also in a device which would permet me to connect my 13 pin guitars (Go din and GK2/3 equipped) to my FTP.
, even if I have to open the FTP and unplug the actual cable connector and plug a new one (with the same socket as the original)

Contact Gumbo on this forum.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on May 26, 2018, 01:12:37 AM
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on May 25, 2018, 12:35:30 PM
Contact Gumbo on this forum.

Thanks GB..  Jassy & I have already spoken about his plans..

Unfortunately, he :
A) is using External GK3s
B) doesn't want to have both Roland & FTP warts on the same guitar
C) wants the External GK3 to talk remotely to the FTP installed in a pedal board and communicate via the 13-pin cable...

...I've thought of a couple of ways that could (??) all happen and it looks full with the danger of either all the smoke getting out, or nothing happening at all....  ;)

Happy to build a cable that makes it work if someone can invent a way for it TO work.....   ;D

Peter
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on August 22, 2018, 09:08:48 AM
Hi there

unfortunately most of the pictures in this thread are gone now :(

But was thinking of doing something like this the other night if it was possible .....wire a 13pin connector directly into the FTP using whatever pins are required


I'd be using it with some LR Bagg Godin piezo guitars and an RMC powered 13 pin Brian Moore...seems like some need to be boosted/attenuated ...some not

Did anyone do something similar that's still around here?
thanks!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on November 16, 2018, 12:56:43 PM
I read through this thread hoping someone productized this adapter as I feel it's a gap in this niche.

I have some experience soldering together AtariVox+ speech synthesis boards together for the classic videogame hobby (https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1045).  I don't know much about electronics per se but I can order bulk parts, submit layout files to an off-shore PCB fab, solder and verify/test.  What that means is someone else has to sort of tee this whole thing up and I take it from there.  This device seems easier than AtariVox because it wouldn't require chips to program, although it probably has more total solder-points and components.  It sounds doable.

PM me if you want to collaborate.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on November 26, 2018, 05:03:36 PM
Here is mine!

One of the things I hated about the midi/piezo guitars was
1. 3 cables
2. no stereo wireless systems out there that are decent
3. Brian Moore having the goofy Y lead setup...and if using Godins with it live becomes a PITA

So partly thanks to this thread I decided to fix that! Earlier I had this little Y jack I would slip in between my strap that would hold the wireless but that didn't take care of the 13pin.....

I got the 10k pots thinking my BM would need it (RMC but with a battery) but after a wiring mistake ended up finding out I didn't need it.

Right now I'm just using the Tx/Rx to demonstrate as I don't have my other wireless just yet.

I'll use a short 13 pin cable and a stereo cable for the BM and a Y lead for the Godin....haven't tried the Godin yet so hoping it won't need the trimpots! (lr baggs)
Probably will make another one if so or just a backup.



Thanks to the contributors in this thread!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 06:42:11 AM
The thread that won't die. I have a Fishman Triple play that I am never going to use if it means no VG-99 access.  After reading this entire thread numerous times I think I have all the information to do this mod so I am hoping someone can confirm that I am correct.  I have a Gk2a internal on one guitar and a GK3 on another guitar also a Brian Moore with the RMC 13 pin. I want to run a 13 pin cable from the guitar to a Roland GKP-4 splitter then one cable out of the GKP-4 to my VG99 and another cable to a small electric project box with a  13 pin input and pcb board.  From the 13 pin input to six 10k trim pots then from the trim pots to the Fishman Triple Play.  It appears that I need to run the appropraite wire from the 13 pin input to one leg of the trim pots then from the wiper leg of the trim pots to the correct pin of the Fishman. It also appears  there is a wire that runs across all the other legs of the trim pots that connects to the ground of the 13 pin input and the grounds of the Fishman. Am I correct so far.  One main question is that some people mention using capacitors in the setup and some say you don't need them so do I need them or not ?  I am using the diagram and photos from susbemol https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.150
and https://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor/ .
I am hoping to disconnect the Fishman pickup so if this doesn't give better results than my current setup I can put it all back together.  Someone suggested this cable https://www.ebay.com/itm/JST-ZH-1-5mm-8-Pin-Female-Housing-Connector-15cm-wire-Male-Straight-Header-x-10/111380528002?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D0a1e4df451d740839aaa918595ef9ca2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D390671564763%26itm%3D111380528002&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A1893ca89-f3e1-11e8-99e0-74dbd1809a5b%7Cparentrq%3A5fd240f21670ab6b9f68dfadfffd361f%7Ciid%3A1   Can someone confirm this cable will plug into the Fishman so I won't have to cut the Fishman pickp cable.
I know some people don't like giving instructions on this so I take full responsibility for whatever happens in this effort.
I should mention that my current guitar to midi setup is the Roland Gi20 and an Axon AX50 using the USB out from these units to a Windows computer. I know the VG99 does guitar to midi but on a Windows computer it doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on November 29, 2018, 06:57:15 AM
Quote from: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 06:42:11 AM
The thread that won't die. I have a Fishman Triple play that I am never going to use if it means no VG-99 access.  After reading this entire thread numerous times I think I have all the information to do this mod so I am hoping someone can confirm that I am correct.  I have a Gk2a internal on one guitar and a GK3 on another guitar also a Brian Moore with the RMC 13 pin. I want to run a 13 pin cable from the guitar to a Roland GKP-4 splitter then one cable out of the GKP-4 to my VG99 and another cable to a small electric project box with a  13 pin input and pcb board.  From the 13 pin input to six 10k trim pots then from the trim pots to the Fishman Triple Play.  It appears that I need to run the appropraite wire from the 13 pin input to one leg of the trim pots then from the wiper leg of the trim pots to the correct pin of the Fishman. It also appears  there is a wire that runs across all the other legs of the trim pots that connects to the ground of the 13 pin input and the grounds of the Fishman. Am I correct so far.  One main question is that some people mention using capacitors in the setup and some say you don't need them so do I need them or not ?  I am using the diagram and photos from susbemol https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.150
and https://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor/ .
I am hoping to disconnect the Fishman pickup so if this doesn't give better results than my current setup I can put it all back together.  Someone suggested this cable https://www.ebay.com/itm/JST-ZH-1-5mm-8-Pin-Female-Housing-Connector-15cm-wire-Male-Straight-Header-x-10/111380528002?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D0a1e4df451d740839aaa918595ef9ca2%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D390671564763%26itm%3D111380528002&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A1893ca89-f3e1-11e8-99e0-74dbd1809a5b%7Cparentrq%3A5fd240f21670ab6b9f68dfadfffd361f%7Ciid%3A1   Can someone confirm this cable will plug into the Fishman so I won't have to cut the Fishman pickp cable.
I know some people don't like giving instructions on this so I take full responsibility for whatever happens in this effort.
I should mention that my current guitar to midi setup is the Roland Gi20 and an Axon AX50 using the USB out from these units to a Windows computer. I know the VG99 does guitar to midi but on a Windows computer it doesn't work for me.

The JST ZH series (1.5mm pitch) connector WILL fit the receptacle of an FTP....BUT you have to shave off the two outer locating tabs in order to insert it.

I stock all these connectors and have built custom pickup cables for various Forum members who have made conversions to run both Roland and FTP platforms from one pickup.

Refer also posts by Forum Member "Vade" regarding modifications to an FTP Strat.

HTH

Peter
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 07:32:36 AM
Reply to gumbo:  Does the link i inserted for the cable on Ebay belong to you ? If not how can I purchase items from you.  Do you have the 13 pin input with the wires already connected which appears to be in your avatar ?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on November 29, 2018, 01:11:59 PM
Hi jimmyj,

I do not sell on ebay...only through this Forum and am based in Australia.

See:   https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=181.0

The pickup cables I referred to are non-stock items and are built to order only.

HTH

Peter
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on November 29, 2018, 01:23:12 PM
Peter makes great stuff. I have his jacks on all my 13 pin gear
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 03:53:07 PM
Gumbo it looks like you have what I need. When someone confirms that my plans will work I will be contacting you.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on November 29, 2018, 04:24:57 PM
quote author=susbemol link=topic=8413.msg160041#msg160041 date=1510737378"


"Here is a stripboard layout I created which could be useful to anyone else looking to build a box like mine:

(https://i.imgur.com/WUzzPUU.png)






================================================

While the Above layout and wiring "works" - actually susbemol's potentiometers are wired backwards

the individual POT Wipers should be the Output feeding the FTP Input

Like this schematic for each passive attenuator


(https://i.postimg.cc/CM4NmBQf/passive-vol.png) 




Use Bourns multiturn pots in the range between 10K to 100K) ( Id go with 20K ohm multiturn pots P/N    PV36W203C01B00 ) ( = more precision in trimming  / attenution of the signal for each string
( Build a board with 6 of these  - one per string)

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bourns-inc/PV36W203C01B00/490-2881-ND/666508


(https://www.mouser.com/images/bourns/lrg/PV36_series_SPL.jpg)
https://www.bourns.com/docs/Product-Datasheets/PV36.pdf


(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fluxmonkey.com%2Felectronoize%2FpassiveDividersFilters_files%2Fimage002.jpg&hash=51fe709433948178ef5b3eebf0d20b88ca2eedd2)
http://www.fluxmonkey.com/electronoize/passiveDividersFilters.htm

 
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 05:13:37 PM
reply to admin: When you said "your pots are wired backwards" did you mean susbemol's diagram is wrong or my plans are wrong. Maybe I am misunderstanding something but I do say that the wiper legs go to the FTP. The reason I know this is because that is what Elantric stated somewhere back in this thread. Thank you for your advice and for suggesting the Bourns pots. So can someone confirm that my plans will work and that I don't need any capacitors ? 
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on November 29, 2018, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 05:13:37 PM
reply to admin: When you said "your pots are wired backwards" did you mean susbemol's diagram is wrong or my plans are wrong. Maybe I am misunderstanding something but I do say that the wiper legs go to the FTP. The reason I know this is because that is what Elantric stated somewhere back in this thread. Thank you for your advice and for suggesting the Bourns pots. So can someone confirm that my plans will work and that I don't need any capacitors ?

I mean susbemol's reference diagram  - its incorrect  - on most pots the center lug is the Wiper and that should be the OUTPUT , not INPUT

QuoteSo can someone confirm that my plans will work and that I don't need any capacitors ?


You plan to use a Roland GKP-4 splitter -
https://www.joness.com/gr300/gkp4.htm
(https://www.joness.com/gr300/pics/gkp4/GKP-4.png)

I vote for using  Non Polarized caps - one in series with the Pot Wiper  - to feed the target FTP DSP board Pickup Input Header  - as you may be connecting to a wide array of target GK  Processors  - which are all in Parallel with no AC decoupling on each signal within the GKP-4 
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FW0LxX5VL._SL1030_.jpg)
4.7uF 50v Non Polarized Radial Electrolytic Capacitor BP Bipolar NP ( to insure you have low frequency signal range on Low E string 
https://www.amazon.com/Chengx-Polarized-Electrolytic-Capacitor-Bipolar/dp/B079KD6MJ2/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1543542907&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=10uF+50v+Non-polarized&psc=1


Remember the output of majority of GK-3, GK-2A are "DC Coupled"  - adding a cap in series after each of the six Pot's  wiper adds peace of mind / less likely for future problems 

And the caps provide room on the perf board for experimentation  - final circuit tweaks / modifications 


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 06:10:49 PM
Thanks admin for your time and information. I'll add the caps and pots you recommended.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on November 29, 2018, 07:07:19 PM
Quote from: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 06:10:49 PM
Thanks admin for your time and information. I'll add the caps and pots you recommended.

BTW,  "admin"  and  "Elantric" are the same person...    ;)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on November 29, 2018, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: gumbo on November 29, 2018, 07:07:19 PM
BTW,  "admin"  and  "Elantric" are the same person...    ;)

Yes - turns out we only have 100 genuine members -

I  get bored and love answering audio questions

( a habit which can occur if you get addicted to reading all editions of this tome

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YAKcB0oYL._SX340_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Cyclopedia-Howard-M-Tremaine/dp/0672206757/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1543548236&sr=1-1&keywords=Audio+cyclopedia
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on November 30, 2018, 01:41:42 AM
Well, I know gumbo & Gumtown aren't the same person because he has a vowel enfiction...  :o

...that just leaves 97 other people here..no wonder we're all so Mellow & Friendly....   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on December 01, 2018, 06:48:42 PM
Quote from: jimmyj on November 29, 2018, 06:10:49 PM
Thanks admin for your time and information. I'll add the caps and pots you recommended.

Just a heads up ...I have a BM 13pin going into the FTP  and I didn't need the pots....your guitar might be different!
I had the sensitivities around 8 to 15 on the strings in the FTP software.

What I also did
I tried the 13 pin direct out to Axon 50>midi out to FTP FC-1 or disaster area ghost convertor>midi out to Waldorf Blofeld
Worked great! I think the Axon actually tracked better dynamically and for ghost notes than the FTP

then tried
My custom wireless FTP (13pin cable from guitar to FTP  ....no trim pots) thru the same setup and it worked great too with slightly faster tracking but a little more issue with ghost notes and dynamics.

So I can flip between wireless and cable no issues.


The next question ....I've got two more FTP's.....I was planning to build a box for my 13 pin Godins or a back up (if the trim pot stuff isn't required for the godin) so I would have two spare FTP pickups....

I have another godin and BM that don't have the 13pin ...unfortunately for these guitars the piezo is all spliced together so I can't separate strings
But here is my idea...

If I installed the FTP pickup under the strings and wired & installed this directly to a 13pin jack I could use this same FTP system!
But my question is....would the FTP pickup wired to a 13pin out work going straight into 13pin roland gear???


Something else I thought about.....I could hack the FTP volume and use some wires in a custom 13pin cable to mount a synth volume on the non roland guitars themselves possibly.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on December 01, 2018, 07:28:18 PM
Vade has a Fishman Tripleplay Strat with the fender Tripleplay Mag hex PU ( its similar to a Roland GK pickup on a roland ready strat but a flatter radius  -

This OEM FTP mag hex PU feeds a custom Gumbo 8 pin "y" splitter ribbon cable
-  one end of Gumbo's Y Splitter feeds the stock FTP DSP Board,

- other end of Gumbo's Y Splitter feeds a Roland Gk-KIT-GT3 internal Gk 13 preamp board with Gumbo GK 13 Output jack

(that type setup could also be incorporated into the Godin Session Tripleplay )  - or your guitar with a stock FTP setup

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on December 02, 2018, 02:28:16 AM
Quote from: admin on December 01, 2018, 07:28:18 PM
Vade has a Fishman Tripleplay Strat with the fender Tripleplay Mag hex PU ( its similar to a Roland GK pickup on a roland ready strat but a flatter radius  -

This OEM FTP mag hex PU feeds a custom Gumbo 8 pin "y" splitter ribbon cable
-  one end of Gumbo's Y Splitter feeds the stock FTP DSP Board,

- other end of Gumbo's Y Splitter feeds a Roland Gk-KIT-GT3 internal Gk 13 preamp board with Gumbo GK 13 Output jack

(that type setup could also be incorporated into the Godin Session Tripleplay )  - or your guitar with a stock FTP setup

Actually that's partially the situation, but not altogether..

When Vade and I were talking first about how to hang all that together, that's exactly what we both thought would have to happen...

...in the case of the FTP Strat, we found out (or rather Vade did, when he pulled it apart!) the way it was built was that the FTP pickup was hardwired into the FTP board, leaving the original 'FTP 8-pin pickup socket' unused on the FTP board..

In the end, that particular installation was achieved using a simple one-to-one pickup cable with a JST ZH 8-pin plug on one end (for the GK3) and an identical one on the other end of the cable (with its locating tabs removed to allow connection) plugged into the unused socket that was still available on the FTP board.

Of course, if one is talking about an FTP installation where the FTP pickup socket on the board is already in use, then the modification has to be achieved with a Y-cable, just like Steve says...

...and yes, I have built both in the past..   ;)

HTH

Peter
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on December 15, 2018, 02:02:38 PM
Will these pots work for the diy project ? https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-10K-OHM-Linear-Taper-Rotary-Potentiometer-10KB-B10K-Pot-With-Wire-Portable/121939252415?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-10K-OHM-Linear-Taper-Rotary-Potentiometer-10KB-B10K-Pot-With-Wire-Portable/121939252415?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649)    I have all the parts now to start this project. I can see where the 20k Bourns pots recommended would be more precise but the adjustment screws are so small I can't see where it would be practical if I had to change the adjustments for different guitars. If I had to only use one guitar I could live with that if it means better tracking but I was thinking if these pots would work I could have different marks made on the pc board for each guitar. If these won't work then I'll use the ones recommended. (//)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on December 15, 2018, 04:10:34 PM
Yes

However Audio taper is preferred
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on December 29, 2018, 05:27:58 AM
After ordering audio taper pots admin recommended instead of the linear ones I found I finally have all the parts.. Since this diy adapter is going to live in my rack with the FTP power supply permanently connected to my power conditioner I was wondering if it would it hurt anything to just have the FTP connected to its power supply full time. If that will not work is there a way to omit the battery in the FTP and run it direct from the usb cable ?  I know some usb cables have a red and black wire besides the data wires so could you just splice the power wires from the usb cable directly into the Fishman Triple Play and omit the battery or if that doesn't work possibly getting a power supply with the correct voltage and milliamps ? This way when my power conditioner is turned on the Fishman and all my other gear is on at the same time without having to manually connect the usb cable to the FTP every so many hours. This is the way my Roland GI-20 and Axon works.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on December 29, 2018, 07:57:30 AM
Quote from: jimmyj on December 29, 2018, 05:27:58 AM
After ordering audio taper pots admin recommended instead of the linear ones I found I finally have all the parts.. Since this diy adapter is going to live in my rack with the FTP power supply permanently connected to my power conditioner I was wondering if it would it hurt anything to just have the FTP connected to its power supply full time. If that will not work is there a way to omit the battery in the FTP and run it direct from the usb cable ?  I know some usb cables have a red and black wire besides the data wires so could you just splice the power wires from the usb cable directly into the Fishman Triple Play and omit the battery or if that doesn't work possibly getting a power supply with the correct voltage and milliamps ? This way when my power conditioner is turned on the Fishman and all my other gear is on at the same time without having to manually connect the usb cable to the FTP every so many hours. This is the way my Roland GI-20 and Axon works.

Observe the 3.3VDC battery connection on FTP Controller  PCB

Remove battery and connect external 3.3VDC @ 200mAH power source


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10333.0
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on December 31, 2018, 05:42:02 PM
Two guitars with the FTP pickup installed now!
Go from the FTP pickup to a JST connector and then to a 13 pin jack  ...haven't done this part yet but will soon!

Changing my wireless up.....going to mount the FTP only on a much slimmer and lighter box and keep that in a belt pack (made of a stubby cooler or beer cozy as they call them in NA! cheap and surprisingly a great fix!)

Boss WL and WL20L will go straight into a small Y jack supported by the guitar strap (photos soon)

Must say don't like the playing feel with the FTP pickup mounted.....def gets in the way esp for palm mutes
Install was piece of cake with the godin (plenty of space to slide in the jst connector once I lifted up the bridge)
BM was a bit more of a problem......the hardware was too thick raising the action up.....luckily I have 3 used FTPS...and I found one had different hardware!
Much slimmer, drilled out the holes and slightly filed to make them flush with that raised piece so it wouldn't affect the action at all.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guitarpartsresource.com%2Fimages%2Flarge%2FBP-0390-010.jpg&hash=43c3a515afa4a0baac206c2dabc0a3fa1bd24755)
Wish I took a photo before hand but I didn't.....

The other issue was couldn't slide in the JST so had to pull out each pin, remove the connector and pull it through with string and reinstall.
Good video for JST here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G7iIwfuaJ8

The tubing for the string dampeners is awesome! works very well. I'm gonna do an A/B before and after with my 13pin BM to see the difference with the ghost notes but I think it will be an improvement.


Oh yeah to hell with the 3M tape too! Used silastic
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: scratch17 on January 02, 2019, 02:44:02 PM
@gearhound22 said:

QuoteI tried the 13 pin direct out to Axon 50>midi out to FTP FC-1 or disaster area ghost convertor>midi out to Waldorf Blofeld
Worked great!

So if I understand you correctly, you bypassed the FTP pickup by using the Axon 50 to convert from 13 pin to MIDI. Then you used FC-1 or Disaster Area ghost to send MIDI to the Blofeld?

If so, why bother with the FC-1 or Ghost converter? Why not send MIDI directly from the Axon to the Blofeld? What am I missing here?

I'd be happy to get an FC-1 or a Disaster Area DMC-3XL Gen 3 if I could figure out how to go from my Brian Moore i213 to MIDI hardware. Could you please help with my confusion?

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on January 02, 2019, 03:04:00 PM
Quote from: scratch17 on January 02, 2019, 02:44:02 PM
@gearhound22 said:

I also have a Brian Moore i213 with the RMC hex piezo and 13 pin output. Do you know if the Disaster Area DMC-XL Gen 3 will work with the FC-1? FTP isn't listed in supported devices.

The Tripleplay USB Receiver is USB Class Compliant and works with an array of USB Host to MIDI interfaces ( Fishman FC-1, Disaster Area DMC-XL with USB Host Option)



( details on USB Host to 5 pin MIDI interfaces here:
  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.0



Quote
If so, why bother with the FC-1? Why not send MIDI directly from the Axon to the Blofeld? What am I missing here?

Probably to use the FC-1's  MIDI Merge function to add footswitch control for the BloFeld 
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 02, 2019, 04:35:22 PM
Quote from: scratch17 on January 02, 2019, 02:44:02 PM
scratch17 said:

So if I understand you correctly, you bypassed the FTP pickup by using the Axon 50 to convert from 13 pin to MIDI. Then you used FC-1 or Disaster Area ghost to send MIDI to the Blofeld?

If so, why bother with the FC-1 or Ghost converter? Why not send MIDI directly from the Axon to the Blofeld? What am I missing here?


I did it for a SHTF situation. With any 13pin guitars I use with my new FTP wireless pack and a small 13pin cable.
Midi route goes  Axon AX50 > Disaster Area ghost or FC-1 depending on what I will use that has the FTP dongle>  blofeld

If I have any wireless issues I can go 13pin direct to the axon ..otherwise its doing nothing in the chain when i use the FTP

With the guitars I've modded with the FTP pickup I can only use the FTP ...I won't be able to plug the 13pin to the axon

They will work for the GR55 COSM stuff though...I would have loved to use the GR55 and trigger its sounds like you can with the GR33 but unfortunately it doesn't work.

Blofeld sounds way better IMO anyhow.

Crazy thing ...unless I haven't set the FTP up right I find the Axon tracks a little better if not quite as fast.....better dynamics too.


Quote from: scratch17 on January 02, 2019, 02:44:02 PM
I'd be happy to get an FC-1 or a Disaster Area DMC-3XL Gen 3 if I could figure out how to go from my Brian Moore i213 to MIDI hardware. Could you please help with my confusion?
As far as that goes check out my wireless pack a page back....I'm going to do a new one though just for the ftp, much smaller and only for the FTP.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=25225


Then you just need a small 13pin cable to the FTP pack and either FC-1 or ghost if you don't like having the FTP mounted on the guitar


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on January 06, 2019, 08:38:32 AM
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8413.0;attach=18625;image)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8413.0;attach=18627;image)
Here is my finished product. (//)   I was going to place the adapter in my rack system so that is why I placed the adjustment knobs in the front. I had to basically wire everything together first and then place it in the box which is why it looks kind of crowded. I also added a 1/4 in jack in case I want to connect directly to my Kemper.  So what I did was wire string 1 from the 13 pin cable I purchased from gumbo into one leg of the 10k pot (audio taper suggested by admin) then from the wiper leg of that pot to one leg of the capacitor (also suggested by admin) on the PCB board then from the other leg of the capacitor to string 1 of the Fishman. Do this for all six pots with matching string numbers. I connected all the remaining legs of the 6 pots together and connected them to the ground from the 13 pin cable and grounds from the Fishman with one also going to the 1/4 jack. I haven't tested the 1/4 inch jack yet but I believe it should work since I connected it to the extra mag pickup wire. I am really glad I used the pots because so far I'm having trouble with the signal being too hot.
  My impression so far is that this may not work for me although I'm not giving up just yet. I'm getting way to many false triggers. Just the slightest movement of my fingers on the strings causes problems. I'm having the most trouble out of my Brian Moore C90. I have to turn the pots almost all the way off and the sensitivity way down on the Fishman app to barely get if usable. The frustrating part is that the sensitivity seems to change plugging straight into the adapter instead of going through the GKP4 first, also there seems to be a difference in using the FTP app in standalone vs going through Ableton. If I hadn't used the pots I know this adapter would be useless for me. There is a big difference in the adjustments from my Brian Moore to the GK3 guitar to my GK2a Strat. I can see where the Bourns pots admin suggested would work better for a single guitar since you could do more fine tuning however if this adapter is ever going to work for me I'm going to have to make marks on the adapter box for each guitar. So far the best tracking for me is my homemade Strat with a GK2A internal kit into my Roland GI20. I can tell the Fishman has less latency but this means nothing if I can't tame the false triggers. All of this is just my opinion and you know what opinions are worth. I would like to thank everyone who helped me with this project no matter what the end result is.                                                                   
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on January 06, 2019, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: CodeSmart on March 31, 2018, 02:28:56 PM
No sorry. I opened up my FTP and thought it was pretty scary having customers doing the same thing to connect some device I made. Probable some of them would destroy the thing blaming me for it. It's really tiny and delicate in there. So I never pulled through  :P

Along those lines, I just got mine and have yet to disassemble it successfully.  It has three small screws and two almost microscopic screws near the cable.  I tried removing the larger screws to see if the bottom would pull out and it does appear to be secured by at least one of the two tiny screws.  I have to get a new set of small screwdrivers to try removing those two.

While I had it partially open I tried pushing on the volume knob and the board did not start coming out.  I then tried to pry at the knob to see if it would pop out the other way (like a guitar volume/tone knob might) but it wasn't budging.  Is it physically possible to remove the case without mutilating the unit in some way?  If so, how?

This thread is dying for some youtube how-to videos rather than just verbal descriptions and a few photos.

I'd like to not break the thing and make the mod 100% reversible.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on January 06, 2019, 04:44:28 PM
QuoteIs it physically possible to remove the case without mutilating the unit in some way?  If so, how?
It does take a very small screwdriver especially to get the two screws out of the plate that covers the cable. What I did was pull up on the silver volume knob and it came off without much force, then unscrew the 3 large screws and also the 2 tiny screws on the wiring cover plate. The bottom will then come off and you can then take out the circuit board. The only trouble I had was after plugging in the new wiring cable to the circuit board it's a little hard to get everything back together. The things you have to watch for is the on/off switch has a little plastic slider that sits in a notch on the frame and also the actual on/off switch has to rest in a notch in the slider, also the battery has to be in it's original position. This is not hard to do you just need to be aware before you put it all back together.  I had to leave the wiring cover plate off for the new 8 pin jst wiring harness to have room. One more thing that happened was one of the three magnets fell out of the cover plate so be aware of this. This is not hard at all and I'm not trying to make it sound like it is.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 06, 2019, 05:30:27 PM
Quote from: jimmyj on January 06, 2019, 08:38:32 AM
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8413.0;attach=18625;image)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8413.0;attach=18627;image)
Here is my finished product. (//)   I was going to place the adapter in my rack system so that is why I placed the adjustment knobs in the front. I had to basically wire everything together first and then place it in the box which is why it looks kind of crowded. I also added a 1/4 in jack in case I want to connect directly to my Kemper.  So what I did was wire string 1 from the 13 pin cable I purchased from gumbo into one leg of the 10k pot (audio taper suggested by admin) then from the wiper leg of that pot to one leg of the capacitor (also suggested by admin) on the PCB board then from the other leg of the capacitor to string 1 of the Fishman. Do this for all six pots with matching string numbers. I connected all the remaining legs of the 6 pots together and connected them to the ground from the 13 pin cable and grounds from the Fishman with one also going to the 1/4 jack. I haven't tested the 1/4 inch jack yet but I believe it should work since I connected it to the extra mag pickup wire. I am really glad I used the pots because so far I'm having trouble with the signal being too hot.
  My impression so far is that this may not work for me although I'm not giving up just yet. I'm getting way to many false triggers. Just the slightest movement of my fingers on the strings causes problems. I'm having the most trouble out of my Brian Moore C90. I have to turn the pots almost all the way off and the sensitivity way down on the Fishman app to barley get if usable. The frustrating part is that the sensitivity seems to change plugging straight into the adapter instead of going through the GKP4 first, also there seems to be a difference in using the FTP app in standalone vs going through Ableton. If I hadn't used the pots I know this adapter would be useless for me. There is a big difference in the adjustments from my Brian Moore to the GK3 guitar to my GK2a Strat. I can see where the Bourns pots admin suggested would work better for a single guitar since you could do more fine tuning however if this adapter is ever going to work for me I'm going to have to make marks on the adapter box for each guitar. So far the best tracking for me is my homemade Strat with a GK2A internal kit into my Roland GI20. I can tell the Fishman has less latency but this means nothing if I can't tame the false triggers. All of this is just my opinion and you know what opinions are worth. I would like to thank everyone who helped me with this project no matter what the end result is.                                                                   

I almost wonder if you would be better taking a resistance reading and then seeing if you could just switch resistor banks in and out for whatever guitar you were using ...if that would work of course?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 06, 2019, 05:33:08 PM
QuoteI almost wonder if you would be better taking a resistance reading and then seeing if you could just switch resistor banks in and out for whatever guitar you were using ...if that would work of course?


I guess I lucked out cause my BM didn't need pots...one of my other FTPs I was going to use as either a spare or possibly a second unit if the LR Bagg godins are hotter...I won't be able to try that for sometime as I don't have access to them right now

[/quote]
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on January 06, 2019, 05:33:34 PM
QuoteI almost wonder if you would be better taking a resistance reading and then seeing if you could just switch resistor banks in and out for whatever guitar you were using ...if that would work of course?

Or wait for Robert's( PrimovaSound) GKMX33 with programmable string levels and patch recall per guitar
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10935.0



5) FTP

As stated upthread, the ability to independently control levels sent to each GK device would effectively do the heavy lifting of an FTP interface hack, making it a lot easier to wire one up.  This would be a good thing.  Any way to make the rest of that physical connection easier would be appreciated.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 17, 2019, 04:24:24 PM
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8413.0;attach=18661;image)
So update!

New wireless pack prototype...other one was too bulky.
Neotech medium wireless pouch worked great but I'm thinking about the levys one just for easier access to controls (only using power & sync)

This box is awesome! If you want to move around anything the sides come out so its super easy.

Some helpful tips....if you are making something similar (only using 6 pins and ground on the 13 pin) cut down the unused pins out on the 13 pin (solder side)....made sh** WAY easier.
Chewing gum makes a good helping hand for soldering these tiny pins too.

2 Snafus...
First was was so many bad diagrams on the net with the pins reverse! Had to redo it
pinched wire 2nd time when closing up the box...doh!

No trim pots required, BM piezo (this one has battery) is fine for levels.
Tracking still a little so so on the Low E etc ....I have to experiment with some different settings.....still not 100% sold on the FTP yet.

Future considerations.
JST wiring out of FTP soldered to a female 7 pin din connector in the box and use a 7 pin male to 13pin cable.


Unfortunately I can't add more attachments :(


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on January 17, 2019, 04:36:37 PM
Quote from: gearhound22 on January 17, 2019, 04:24:24 PM

Unfortunately I can't add more attachments :(

Learn how to post pics

Forum / Web Site Help
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=23.0

How to Post Pics
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4823.0
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: kevorkian on January 18, 2019, 08:03:44 AM
gearhound22 Saw your post in the FB TriplePlay group and I think this forum would benefit from seeing more pictures posted in this thread. I have to say your work looks great!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on January 18, 2019, 08:23:36 AM
 There must be something else going on here that effects the tracking. It doesn't make any sense why gearhound22's Brian Moore doesn't need pots and mine absolutely wouldn't work without them. I almost have to turn the pots all the way down to get my Brian Moore to work. I have to turn them about 3/4 up for my GK-2a to work. If I was going to do it all over again I might just use the Bourns pots suggested by admin and fine tune them for one guitar only. After working with this adapter for a few days I have the tracking where it is usable but the results are no better than I get with my Roland GI-20. I'm starting to think it's like every other guitar to midi device in that the computer, type of guitar, string gauge, and playing style has as much to do with it as the adapter.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on January 18, 2019, 08:51:52 AM
QuoteIt doesn't make any sense why gearhound22's Brian Moore doesn't need pots and mine absolutely wouldn't work without them. I

Actually its makes perfect sense

the Brian Moore uses a variety of piezo saddles  - older examples used LR Baggs T Bridge Piezos 

Piezo saddles have specific output signal sensitivities - and  why its often a bit of a hassle to locate one replacement Piezo saddle which is also matched to the same output sensitivity as your existing Piezo saddles set in your make / model  / year guitar.   

RMC uses a "band Code" on the shielded output cable to state the Piezo output sensitivity.
  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18360.msg130686#msg130686

In other words  - one guitar  may function fine with the Tripleplay DIY adapter  without any attenuation or pots

while another guitar with a hotter signal will require signal attenuation pots
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 18, 2019, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: kevorkian on January 18, 2019, 08:03:44 AM
gearhound22 Saw your post in the FB TriplePlay group and I think this forum would benefit from seeing more pictures posted in this thread. I have to say your work looks great!

Thanks! Is that handle a SYL reference too?

I was going to link this thread but wasn't sure if that would be an issue.
Midi guitar is kinda lonely so the more people contributing the better :)
I just find some of the threads a little hard to navigate for the info...its all in there but have to wade through pages :(

I'll see if I can do a little guide how I did mine

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 18, 2019, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: jimmyj on January 18, 2019, 08:23:36 AM
There must be something else going on here that effects the tracking. It doesn't make any sense why gearhound22's Brian Moore doesn't need pots and mine absolutely wouldn't work without them. I almost have to turn the pots all the way down to get my Brian Moore to work. I have to turn them about 3/4 up for my GK-2a to work. If I was going to do it all over again I might just use the Bourns pots suggested by admin and fine tune them for one guitar only. After working with this adapter for a few days I have the tracking where it is usable but the results are no better than I get with my Roland GI-20. I'm starting to think it's like every other guitar to midi device in that the computer, type of guitar, string gauge, and playing style has as much to do with it as the adapter.

I think mine is a 2005 model with the piezos .....it has a battery too.
The levels range from 8 to about 13 in the FTP software for sensitivity.
My other one doesn't have the 13pin out and the piezos are all joined together so no way I can separate strings, that is why I did the FTP pickup mount and routed it thru the body to a jack I will put in.

I def recommend that trick I did for the ghost notes too in the bridge with the tubing.

I do have some tracking issues as well....Axon ax50 seems to be the best I've tried so far (especially with dynamics)  but I haven't yet tried the FTP with the pickup (soon)

Hopefully my godins will work the same as the BM and don't need any attenuation!!! (LR Baggs type both have batteries)


Jimmy also would you be able to sub out pots for resistors once you know the value?

If I need attenuation for the godins what I might do is split the FTP to two 7 pin female jacks.
One has attenuation the other none (for my BM)
Then all I need to do is switch cables inputs (7pin to 13pin cable)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on January 19, 2019, 10:35:31 AM
That would be totally awesome.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on January 19, 2019, 11:03:26 AM
Quote from: gearhound22 on January 18, 2019, 03:15:39 PM
I'll see if I can do a little guide how I did mine

IMHO, youtube videos are the best way to show how to DIY something.  I'm reading the descriptions and I'm still a little hazy on the disassembly procedure, for instance.  I did originally try pulling the volume knob off but it wouldn't budge and I'm afraid if I really yank on it I'll break it.  But to see someone else do a clean disassembly on video it will be 100% clear how it's done.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on January 19, 2019, 12:46:02 PM
QuoteI did originally try pulling the volume knob off but it wouldn't budge and I'm afraid if I really yank on it I'll break it
All I can say is that mine came off without any trouble. I just pulled up on it and it came right off. Mine came off a lot easier than pulling off a guitar knob. Sounds like you're trying to pull off the whole knob which is attached to the circuit board I believe.  On mine I just pulled the chrome cap off, which is really thin, and then the case will slip over the remaining part of the knob.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 19, 2019, 11:55:31 PM
One question I have.....why the two ground wires on the FTP pickup?

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on January 20, 2019, 12:02:27 AM
One is considered earth shield

Another one is considered signal ground reference
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on January 20, 2019, 01:44:25 PM
..and the connection between the GK pickup and it's mainboard has exactly the same philosophy.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 20, 2019, 07:16:42 PM
Thanks!

ok strange question...but is there any advantage to routing these separately from a FTP pickup through a cable back to the FTP?
Or if I joined both to the ground went through the cable and then split to the FTP is this fine? (shielded cable using the shield)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on January 22, 2019, 08:27:14 PM
Quote from: jimmyj on January 19, 2019, 12:46:02 PM
All I can say is that mine came off without any trouble. I just pulled up on it and it came right off.

I managed to get it off tonight but it took a hell of a lot of pressure.  I got some new screwdrivers and I got it open now so I can start to thinking about prototyping something on a breadboard.  I also want to see if I can teach myself how to use PCB tools like Eagle.  Beyond something like this my doubleneck has very complicated wiring and very cramped cavities and I'm thinking of learning how to crunch the rat's nest down to PCBs.  If I actually make progress on some of this I'll put up some videos on Youtube.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 23, 2019, 12:23:14 PM
Quote from: mos6507 on January 22, 2019, 08:27:14 PM
I managed to get it off tonight but it took a hell of a lot of pressure.  I got some new screwdrivers and I got it open now so I can start to thinking about prototyping something on a breadboard.  I also want to see if I can teach myself how to use PCB tools like Eagle.  Beyond something like this my doubleneck has very complicated wiring and very cramped cavities and I'm thinking of learning how to crunch the rat's nest down to PCBs.  If I actually make progress on some of this I'll put up some videos on Youtube.

I'm going to do a guide but I don't think by video

I originally had PCB but then just used a terminal strip. If I go with the 7pin to 13pin cable in the future I won't have the terminals at all
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on January 23, 2019, 01:03:45 PM
BTW, I forgot to mention that I think the reason the volume knob took so much effort is there's a layer of two-sided tape inside.  Could the older ones maybe not have the tape?  Maybe they had issues with the knob falling off in the past and added the tape.



Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on January 23, 2019, 01:48:51 PM
QuoteCould the older ones maybe not have the tape
My FTP is several years old and the knob seemed to only be held on by pressure.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on January 23, 2019, 04:11:39 PM
Quote from: mos6507 on January 23, 2019, 01:03:45 PM
BTW, I forgot to mention that I think the reason the volume knob took so much effort is there's a layer of two-sided tape inside.  Could the older ones maybe not have the tape?  Maybe they had issues with the knob falling off in the past and added the tape.

Both of mine had double sided tape on them.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on January 28, 2019, 10:55:26 AM
BUMP

While this is an easy enough project for anyone to build on one-off breadboards, I'm using this as a good excuse to start learning PCB design.  Over the weekend I found a free online tool called EasyEDA.  Seems to be easier to work with than the standard (Eagle).  I especially like the 3D preview it renders out:

(https://i.imgur.com/vfQ0Om5.png)

I have an idea for how to better connect the FTP to the board than those microscopic 8-pin JST connectors but I'll wait until I've tested it before sharing more.  Suffice to say, I want to make it so that the FTP can easily move back and forth between 13-pin (for a GK guitar) and a 2nd Fishman-only guitar with the Fishman hex pickup preserved.  As far as the issue of multiple GK guitars with different pot settings, the path of least resistance if you don't want to readjust the pots is to simply maintain a separate adapter for each guitar.

If I get a working prototype going I will make a run of these boards and make it available, probably in a choice of kit or a plug-n-play mod.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on January 28, 2019, 03:31:53 PM
I would probably be interested in one of these :)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: scratch17 on February 16, 2019, 09:51:54 AM
@mos6507, I would like one as well. I would prefer a plug-n-play, but I could do a kit. I acknowledge my laziness.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: CodeSmart on February 20, 2019, 11:48:18 PM
Justinn Grenye, Today from
Facebook - Fishman Triple Play Users All over the world:

Hi all, here is a starter guide to the 13 pin guitar to FTP and internal FTP pickup mod to FTP wireless. Unfortunately I'm working crazy shifts till the end of March so have limited time....so this is just a rough guide to hopefully get some of you started.

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/FTP%20mod%20v2.pdf?token=AWxQv20Lp7E12xbp8Eolub1pgCBbneYuijJ5O4M0G67m_ZrMZwjzbXaZvTyPejmBP-1ECNseQl5rNJwF4IGDgvcsl-VeNos3IZd07_-gZHV0u9wmzN1GsrOiNd1rUu4xriMdgCZ3QjGmN_rXN3ucvRqjAEnAnteMDaPSLLAFnPgkXB732Nzbmim8S3LUH3XScEN9GVadR2VzMEP4cyPkPuk1dvp_uMIAitoi4UBwZR0ZtA
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on February 21, 2019, 12:39:59 AM
That's an interesting approach.  I thought I'd offer an update on what I've been doing for those who are waiting for a plug-and-play solution.

Originally I didn't know what kind of case I'd put this in and was thinking I'd use panel-mount jacks and hand-solder leads to pins on the board.

I bought a used GKPX-14 recently off of someone on the forum and I took a look inside and the approach and the form-factor looks like it would work better for this sort of adapter.  I don't know how important shielding is but it kind of makes sense to err on the side of caution and use aluminum stompbox enclosures.  I did some research and can tell that the GKPX-14 uses a Hammond 1590B.  So I redesigned the board around that form-factor, meaning a PCB that sits on standoffs and uses PCB mounted jacks.

(https://i.imgur.com/mDqnlnv.png)

The plan right now is to use RJ45 (Cat 5e/6) for cabling to the FTP.  It's important to make it so that the unit can still easily be plugged back into the Fishman hex pickup for use on the guitar, but I want to get away from the flimsy JST connectors.  So it either has to be RJ45 or the more unusual 8-pin mini-DIN (like the old Apple serial cables).  I can still use the mini-DIN if there's pushback against RJ45 but it would be cheaper and easier to use ethernet.  I also think the wire quality is probably better on the ethernet cable than any preexisting 8-pin serial.

The Fishman unit itself would have a new cable made that inserts to its JST socket that terminates in RJ45 male.  This would rout itself more or less like the original depending on how well the (thicker) cabling fits.  The original pickup would be the only thing permanently altered, by lopping off the JST connector and splicing the wires to a gender changer so that it's RJ45 female.  That female jack is about the size of a six-sided dice.  From that point onward the Fishman never needs to be opened again and it can be used as designed on the face of your guitar or through an adapter.

In summary, how this would work is you plug your 13-pin guitar into a switching device like a US-20, GKP-4 or GKPX-14 and your hex pickup must be powered by your normal unit (like a VG or GR) and then hook this adapter up to one of the other ports.  The fishman unit then plugs into the adapter.  You then unscrew the base and setup the trim pot sensitivity.  Once you dial it in, screw it back together and you shouldn't have to adjust it anymore for that guitar.  If you have multiple guitars, buy multiple adapters and just slap a label them so you know which one is setup for which guitar.  But it shouldn't be necessary to keep fiddling with pots and I'm trying to keep the final cost down so that it's no big deal to have more than one adapter.

All of this will make more sense when I build a prototype and share photos.

I'm planning to mod units myself.  Since the only real change should be the splice job to the RJ45 gender changer I think the odds of the units breaking during conversion are low.  In theory it might be possible to make a tiny conversion board so you can just plug the JST conector in and then the female ethernet connects to that, it gets too bulky for something that will sit on the face of the guitar.  I just don't think it's worth it to keep the entire thing intact 100% but I guess it might impact resale value slightly.  (But if you sell your Fishman you should bundle the adapter in with it anyway and then it's worth more than the original for what it can do.)  It's also a simple enough design that I could offer raw boards or kits.  The only thing slightly hard to find are the 13-pin PCB-mounted jacks.  Right now I only have 10 jacks on hand.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on February 21, 2019, 03:20:46 AM
Be aware that there are more than one version of 13-pin PCB-mounted jacks around, and that there can be slight differences in the footprint...both in the layout of the connection points and also mounting points.

Be also aware that you may need to reinforce the PCB area surrounding the mounting of the 13-pin jack, and/or obtain jacks with 'ears' that can be also bolted to the wall of the enclosure to stabilise them and avoid flexing of the PCB & soldered connections when the 13-pin jackplug is inserted without proper care and attention.

To the best of my knowledge, all the PCB-mounted 13-pin jacks that are currently commercially available STILL only have the one, single 'spring-loaded' ground contact built into them to connect tangentially with the outer metal shell of the 13-pin jackplug.

As is the case with the Roland jacks that we all know.

Dependent upon usage and user error, this is a known potential failure factor of this style of jack.

HTH

Peter
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on February 21, 2019, 01:31:37 PM
I would like to report that after trying every combination of settings on my adapter and Fishman software that this just doesn't work for me. I have also tried every 13 pin guitar that I own and it makes no difference. It's not the adapters fault. The Triple Play never worked for me when I tried it the normal way with the Fishman Triple Play mounted on my guitar so I guess I was dreaming when I thought somehow using the Roland pickup driving the adapter would work better. I do believe this adapter works a little better than when the Fishman was on my guitar but it still doesn't compare to my Roland GI-20. I don't regret trying this since anytime I learn something new it's worth it and i want to thank everyone who helped in the effort. If anyone is interested in this adapter with the Fishman attached I am willing to sell it. Just send me a PM. The photos are a few pages back in the post.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on February 21, 2019, 01:52:26 PM
Quote from: jimmyj on February 21, 2019, 01:31:37 PM
I would like to report that after trying every combination of settings on my adapter and Fishman software that this just doesn't work for me. I have also tried every 13 pin guitar that I own and it makes no difference. It's not the adapters fault. The Triple Play never worked for me when I tried it the normal way with the Fishman Triple Play mounted on my guitar so I guess I was dreaming when I thought somehow using the Roland pickup driving the adapter would work better. I do believe this adapter works a little better than when the Fishman was on my guitar but it still doesn't compare to my Roland GI-20. I don't regret trying this since anytime I learn something new it's worth it and i want to thank everyone who helped in the effort. If anyone is interested in this adapter with the Fishman attached I am willing to sell it. Just send me a PM. The photos are a few pages back in the post.






I have always had the exact same problem with the FTP. I purchased my FTP when they first came out and couldn't figure why almost everyone else raved about them. It didn't even track as good as my Axon AX-50 even though it had the same inventor.  I even did a review on Amazon and I believe on this site about it. I recently did the mod to use the FTP with the 13 pin Roland gear in hopes something would change but unfortunately it didn't change a thing. I don't have that problem with my Roland GI-20. It's not perfect but at least it's usable which is more than I can say about the Fishman. I play a lot of classical guitar where you have to put more pressure on the strings so I know I most likely pull the strings somewhat when I play my electrics since I play almost everything with my fingers similar to the way Richie Kotzen plays with Winery Dogs.  It's a cop out to say well change your strings and playing style and the Fishman will work when I don't have to change a thing with my GI-20.  I also don't have anything good to say about Fishman support. I've asked them a couple of questions in the past and they didn't even bother to reply.  I am looking at the ROR Expressiv midi guitar but I don't see a way to try one before you buy something that expensive.



I agree with you that in regard to the Fishman  Tripleplay - the stock Tripleplay hex PU will always be on top

this "adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay" pursuit is simply a means for less guitar changes for many here.

Bottom line - if you experienced mistracking issues with the stock Tripleplay hex PU external setup - this adapter will NOT cure things

Additionally,  if you are a piezo hex 13 pin guitar user, I encourage you to insert one of the third party 13 pin high pass Sub filters between the GK guitar and the FTP DSP unit 

What is a subsonic filter for GK 13 pin processor used for?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17667.0


and for guitar to MIDI, IMHO a gently used Roland GR-33 tracks as well as a GI-20 , (and much better than the GR-55)  - if you have a Mac, the recent Boss GP-10 represents the best performing Roland/Boss Guitar to MIDI processor , add 6 milliseconds latency for Windows users ( owing to the slower Boss GP-10 ASIO USB driver for Windows vs the faster  / lower latency Boss GP-10 Core Audio USB driver for macOS )     
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: jimmyj on February 21, 2019, 05:44:21 PM
Thanks admin (Elantric) for your reply. I have tried 2 Brian Moore guitars, one Gibson SG with a GK3 external and my Strat that I robbed the parts from a Roland ready strat with a GK2a from. One tracks no better than the other with the Fishman. I just have to change the settings but in the end there are just too many false triggers. I know it's beyond logic why the Fishman works so well for so many other people and won't work for me but I have invited several of my musician friends over to try their luck and they have the same results that I do in that my GI-20 just works better. It seems I'm the only person on the planet that has this experience.
   I owned a GR-33 when they first came out and didn't really care for it. I never tried to run a softsynth with it. I have thought about getting a GP-10 but I can't find out what the advantage would be over my VG-99. I have been looking at the subsonic filters since right now my best setup is my Brian Moore C90 into the VG99 and my GI20 running Ableton. I must have a one of a kind GI20 because no matter how fast I play it can keep up and rarely a false trigger. I just bought another Brian Moore to put heavier gauge strings on to see if that helps tracking and also I believe it will make a big difference in the acoustic models in the VG99. I have a Zitar Z7 that needs a little work so I guess I'll have to use it and I won't have to worry about tracking at all.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on February 21, 2019, 06:23:12 PM
Use flatwound strings-  or polished round wound strings and thicker gauge- all help to minimize mistracking if Playing Synth parts using Guitar to MIDI is your focus and  emphasis

Quotehave a Zitar Z7 that needs a little work so I guess I'll have to use it and I won't have to worry about tracking at all.

Honestly, Id rather play accordian than any Ztar ( id get more gigs too)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on March 04, 2019, 03:57:38 PM
Finally had the chance to try out my FTP pack with my Godin LGX-SA and LGXT (LR Baggs) but no signal at all using the FTP software ???

I'm guessing this needs the Roland 7v supply to give the strings outputs?

They both do have 9v batteries.......So RMC seems to work no problem but Lr Baggs not....

In any case could make a modified belt pack for these guitars if that's all it requires.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on March 04, 2019, 04:04:30 PM
Quote from: gearhound22 on March 04, 2019, 03:57:38 PM
Finally had the chance to try out my FTP pack with my Godin LGX-SA and LGXT (LR Baggs) but no signal at all using the FTP software ???

I'm guessing this needs the Roland 7v supply to give the strings outputs?

They both do have 9v batteries.......So RMC seems to work no problem but Lr Baggs not....

In any case could make a modified belt pack for these guitars if that's all it requires.

The Godin internal Battery is only for the 1/4" output   

on the " DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay" adapter's GK-13 jack,( Where you connect the GK 13 pin guitar )  You will need to provide an external source of +7VDC on pin #12, and  -7VDC power on pin #13, and reference all DC voltages to common Ground on the large round DIN 13 shell connection of your adapters GK 13 Input Jack

These voltages are required to power the internal 6 channel pre-amp on all GK Ready 13 pin guitars ( Roland Strat, Godin xtSA, LGXT w/ RMC, Carvin  / Keisel Graphtech 13 pin guitars )


- so far Ive never posted any plans for this adapter - just pointing out errors / omissions  when I see them of the numerous plans other members have posted of their proposed "DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay"
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on March 04, 2019, 04:30:16 PM
Quote from: admin on March 04, 2019, 04:04:30 PM
The Godin internal Battery is only for the 1/4" output   

on the " DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay" adapter's GK-13 jack,( Where you connect the GK 13 pin guitar )  You will need to provide an external source of +7VDC on pin #12, and  -7VDC power on pin #13, and reference all DC voltages to common Ground on the large round DIN 13 shell connection of your adapters GK 13 Input Jack

These voltages are required to power the internal 6 channel pre-amp on all GK Ready 13 pin guitars ( Roland Strat, Godin xtSA, LGXT w/ RMC, Carvin  / Keisel Graphtech 13 pin guitars )


- so far Ive never posted any plans for this adapter - just pointing out errors / omissions  when I see them of the numerous plans other members have posted of their proposed "DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay"

Thanks for the reply & the info!!!

How come it works fine with my RMC Brian Moore  ??? Must be a slightly different setup?
It has a battery and RMC setup/13 pin out

Whats probably the best way of supplying that power besides using a roland?
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on March 04, 2019, 04:39:20 PM
Start reading this whole thread at 1st post

many successful users are using FTP along with the GR-55 and a GK-4P GK 13pin parallel break out box, where the GR-55 is providing the  +7VDC/-7VDC power
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on March 04, 2019, 05:06:35 PM
Quote from: admin on March 04, 2019, 04:39:20 PM
Start reading this whole thread at 1st post

many successful users are using FTP along with the GR-55 and a GK-4P GK 13pin parallel break out box, where the GR-55 is providing the  +7VDC/-7VDC power

I want this to be purely wireless so would need to be a battery setup :(
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on March 04, 2019, 05:19:14 PM
Quote from: gearhound22 on March 04, 2019, 05:06:35 PM
I want this to be purely wireless so would need to be a battery setup :(

Then if Wireless is what you seek - If it were me id just mount the standard Tripleplay pickup and control unit to the guitar i want to use

the Tripleplay Mag hex PU will provide the best tracking

(https://i.postimg.cc/hPxGLLNw/20130314-084819-zps208d81b0.jpg)
MyGodin  xtSA with Tripleplay and RMC Piezo Gk 13 Out

FTP - Show us your Triple Play Guitars
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8394.0


A few here (Vade) have Modded the Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - by adding a Roland GK-KIT-GT3 internal GK  - to provide a GK 13 pin jack on that Fishman Tripleplay Guitar

that effort makes the most sense  - but I understand not everyone can own the now rare Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat -

(https://www.snapagogo.com/images/2017/06/24/1461011222_184875111_FTPStratMod.jpg)
FTP - Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0
 
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on March 04, 2019, 05:33:55 PM
Quote from: admin on March 04, 2019, 05:19:14 PM
Then if Wireless is what you seek - If it were me id just mount the standard Tripleplay pickup and control unit to the guitar i want to use

the Tripleplay Mag hex PU will provide the best tracking

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2F20130314_084819_zps208d81b0.jpg&hash=d9c0cf075f5aba45852c0adfc90243aa8a3d794c)
MyGodin  xtSA with Tripleplay and RMC Piezo Gk 13 Out

FTP - Show us your Triple Play Guitars
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8394.0


A few here (Vade) have Modded the Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - by adding a Roland GK-KIT-GT3 internal GK  - to provide a GK 13 pin jack on that Fishman Tripleplay Guitar

that effort makes the most sense  - but I understand not everyone can own the now rare Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat -

(https://www.snapagogo.com/images/2017/06/24/1461011222_184875111_FTPStratMod.jpg)
FTP - Fender Fishman Tripleplay Strat - install an internal GK Kit
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0


I just never liked how it looked or the GK mounted on a guitar esp with a nice quilt or flame!
Shame they never released the internal kit......
I find the pickup gets in the way a little as well playing wise
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: maikul on July 08, 2019, 03:44:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRhkq61E2x8
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: kdeterra on August 02, 2019, 10:57:23 AM
Saw this post and thought I'd share... I know working with the 13 pin connectors is difficult. This 13 pin din break out board is available on amazon and makes it easy to work with. You could build a splitter, or invert the individual strings to easily create new chords / sounds. The board comes in two variations, a simple break out board and a pass-through board.

https://www.amazon.com/DS-101-DS-103-Breakout-Prototype-Breadboard/dp/B07V1HHFD7/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2Q8IXRPMJTZ36&keywords=ds+101+gk3+breakout+board&qid=1564679249&s=gateway&sprefix=ds+101+gk3%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-1

Hope this is helpful to someone!

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QlZMf6OhL._SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on August 02, 2019, 12:15:15 PM
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TZK8DPM/ref=crt_ewc_title_srh_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1DK2MDM84NABC
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91dV-LsflPL._SL1500_.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/413hGXkULBL.jpg)


Pass through version too
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GBUAAOSwcytdHvSC/s-l1600.jpg)
Just verify you order the correct  angle "DS-101" DIN 13 connectors
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-13-Pin-Circular-Jack-Female-Panel-Mount-PCB-Mount-Connector-Adapter-SY/173984025368?hash=item2882418b18:g:GBUAAOSwcytdHvSC

https://www.toby.co.uk/signal-to-board-connectors/din-minidin-connectors/ds-101-valcon-13-position-pcb-mount-din-socket/

data sheet
https://www.toby.co.uk/uploads/publications/1020.pdf


- Valcon 13 position PCB Mount DIN Socket (DS101)


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mooncaine on August 03, 2019, 08:14:53 AM
Help a dummy with no electro-knowledge thru this thought experiment, if you would, please:
Will it work? Is it safe for the VG (ie, am I introducing extra risk of damaging the VG?) I'm talking electronics here only. I realize I'd need to engineer the actual enclosure for the box, but tht part doesn't worry me).

Reason I ask: I rely on old VG-99s, and my oldest has a wonky 13-pin input jack. I'd like to build a substitute jack box to take the strain off the VG and keep its connector cable steady and immobile. If this works, I'd leave the VG-99's input alone and would only un/plug my guitar using this theoretical pass-thru box.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: kdeterra on August 05, 2019, 12:32:28 PM
yes that will work. 1 to 1 wiring right to teh female 13 pin connectors, so no risk of problems. Just make sure that you mount the board to something using a #4 screw.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on November 12, 2019, 02:23:02 PM
Hi all,

Just an update, made another box and this time admin indirectly gave me an idea to make a custom 13 pin out of a more solid 90 degree midi connector (using just 7 pins so FTP pickup to FTP wireless or roland 13pin to FTP wireless)

I much prefer the 7 pin connector but I can only use this one for the FTP pickup guitars and I weighed it up and went with the univeral one (13 pin)....hate them and they are a PITA to solder big time but it is what it is!

This style of connector is much better suited for godin type guitars as you can do more angles than just 90 degrees so you could angle it off just a little for the other two outputs bei9ng so close to the 13pin

Here are the results!
Happy to say the new one worked the first time! I soldered the wires direct on to the rear pads of the FTP ...in hindsight I probably wouldn't do this again but wanted to cut down on connections as much as possible

I've noticed with my RMC guitar very light playing the tracking is flawless but with harder picking all hell breaks loose....thinking of trying to set the dongles a little different with this guitar or trying the ebony piece on the bridge like the tesla midi guitars


Also beer foam coolers make great wireless holders on the cheap!

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: merman93 on January 11, 2020, 09:20:52 PM
I don't toss out most electrical things, I will usually find a use for it. I was early adopter of Fishman triple play, actually bought 2 units. No doubt that as far as midi tracking, it is the cleanest, most accurate and affordable device.

However after 6 months or so, I decided I was more into Older GR-300 tones, basically Virtual Guitars, so boxed 1 unit up and it sat in my attic and gave one to my nephew

Now that I'm waiting for the new Boss SY-1000 to arrive, I started checking out my Gk ready guitars.
The one that is the worst off is a Strat with GK3 attached. For whatever reason on my Vg 88 v 2 there were loud noises on the wave guitars patches, and both E strings were too quiet while setting at 100. That's primarily why it's been in the attic for 2-3 years.

Well I found a solution, and I swear it is the best Vg guitar I own. I opened up the gk3 and the FTP , the pickup connector on the FTP is 8 pins, with correct distance, and easily connected into my gk3 box.

The easy way the pickup mounts keeps it quiet so it doesn't rattle, the pickup spacing with magnets correctly under all strings, the gk3 mounts easily to my rear strap pin.

It just set up perfectly, and works great with my Vg 88. I can't think of any issues I've had. Can't wait to check with the SY-1000. Don't thro anything away!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: drbill on March 09, 2020, 03:37:22 PM
I'd really like to have a GK-to-FTP box, but I don't think my maker skills are up to the task. If one of you would like to quote me a price to build one that I can velcro to a pedalboard, please DM me. I'd like to be able to adjust the attenuation as I have GK-2a, GK-3 and RMC equipped guitars (and you never know Roland may release a new hex PU at some point).
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alancarl on March 10, 2020, 04:42:12 AM
I wish such an adapter were available off the shelf for our guitar synth pleasures too:-)
Maybe next year!
Now you might not feel comfortable to share this info but on another note what color is your '76 LP Deluxe?
Very cool guitar as I had a cherry sunburst 70's Deluxe back in the 80's...wish I had kept it:-0
Anyway good luck DrBill
Al
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on March 10, 2020, 05:55:00 PM
Quote from: drbill on March 09, 2020, 03:37:22 PM
I'd really like to have a GK-to-FTP box, but I don't think my maker skills are up to the task. If one of you would like to quote me a price to build one that I can velcro to a pedalboard, please DM me. I'd like to be able to adjust the attenuation as I have GK-2a, GK-3 and RMC equipped guitars (and you never know Roland may release a new hex PU at some point).

Its not that difficult to build, I do have a GK3 guitar that I can't remember if I tested the FTP pack with yet for levels but in about a weeks time I can try and test. I'm pretty certain it will be identical to the FTP pickup so no attenuation needed.

My BM has the RMC (apparently there are different versions with different levels)
If you have a GR55  try your BM on it and lower the sensitivity just so it hits the limit I could probably compare to see if you would need attenuation or not as mine didn't...but not all RMCs are the same!

The worst part is the 13 pin soldering which is horrible. The good news is you don't need all 13pins (only 7 iirc) so you can pretty much cut out the ones you don't use which makes the job much easier.

The box I made is fully reversible too.

Maybe when I get back I can make a little guide up.

The 13 pin male connector I made up though is the BOMB!
It can also be done with a 5 pin midi 90 degree jack...its hands down my fav 13 pin connector out of all the ones I've tried
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=8413.0;attach=19821)

I possibly might sell one of my adapters in the future but right now trying to work out what gear I will and won't hang onto.

One thing is it didn't work with my Godin LR Baggs guitars! No signal at all.

In your case Dr Bill all you would need is a JST connector (fed through a small hole to connect to the FTP) soldered onto a 13 pin female connector on a box, then could affix it to your pedal board and use double sided tape to affix the FLP onto the box (if attenuation was not needed)


Also see this thread for BM RMC guitars.....these two tricks helped quite a bit with ghost notes
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=26712.msg194663#msg194663



Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: admin on March 10, 2020, 06:00:53 PM
There is another version here
Quote from: susbemol on January 19, 2016, 05:29:10 AM
I finished building mine and it is all working really well so far. :) Thanks again, CodeSmart and the others for the help.

I've written a blog entry with more details here: http://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor

(https://guitarsandsynths.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/gk_to_ftp_adaptor_5.jpg)
(https://guitarsandsynths.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/gk_to_ftp_adaptor_4.jpg)
(https://guitarsandsynths.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/gk_to_ftp_adaptor_1.jpg)
(https://guitarsandsynths.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/gk_to_ftp_adaptor_5.jpg)



FULL DETAILS:
https://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor/?fbclid=IwAR3Venmz5-Biu6SMa3zXE0IrCSkxcIyNiXmp0z1eq_9ZcN2oWG_HlHF8s1s

Could Use one of Gumbos prewired SYNTH-LINX Jacks
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.0
(https://s6.postimg.cc/6fu98htfl/synthlynx.png)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on May 17, 2020, 05:50:28 PM
Quote from: gearhound22 on November 12, 2019, 02:23:02 PM
Hi all,

Just an update, made another box and this time admin indirectly gave me an idea to make a custom 13 pin out of a more solid 90 degree midi connector (using just 7 pins so FTP pickup to FTP wireless or roland 13pin to FTP wireless)

I much prefer the 7 pin connector but I can only use this one for the FTP pickup guitars and I weighed it up and went with the univeral one (13 pin)....hate them and they are a PITA to solder big time but it is what it is!

This style of connector is much better suited for godin type guitars as you can do more angles than just 90 degrees so you could angle it off just a little for the other two outputs bei9ng so close to the 13pin

Here are the results!
Happy to say the new one worked the first time! I soldered the wires direct on to the rear pads of the FTP ...in hindsight I probably wouldn't do this again but wanted to cut down on connections as much as possible

I've noticed with my RMC guitar very light playing the tracking is flawless but with harder picking all hell breaks loose....thinking of trying to set the dongles a little different with this guitar or trying the ebony piece on the bridge like the tesla midi guitars


Also beer foam coolers make great wireless holders on the cheap!


I'd like to just add on a cool discovery today.

I found this above setup works with the Axon gear so
FTP pickup >wired to 13 pin F connector on guitar > 13 pin cable to Axon

Signal levels are a little lower than my RMC piezo's but I just increased the sensitivity

The key is to turn wheel control OFF on the axon then won't look for the 13 pin vol signal

Other than that it tracks pretty decently! I don't really use the controls on the roland guitars much (volume I used expression and patch changes I use floor controller)

So this is brilliant news for me!

My guess is it might be possible to use for roland gear too if you do some sort of connection between the volume pins (resistor?)
Hopefully its safe to use it this way!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alexmcginness on May 17, 2020, 06:37:12 PM
Why does almost everyone want to use the Triple play pickup to control the VG stuff when the GK pickup is far more efficient than the TP pickup? You can adjust the curve of the gk pickup and get very close to the 1mm distance required to work the GK gear on all strings, but this is not possible with the TP pickup. I have to imagine that the GK running the TP box would yield better results from this feature alone.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on May 17, 2020, 08:40:22 PM
Quote from: alexmcginness on May 17, 2020, 06:37:12 PM
Why does almost everyone want to use the Triple play pickup to control the VG stuff when the GK pickup is far more efficient than the TP pickup? You can adjust the curve of the gk pickup and get very close to the 1mm distance required to work the GK gear on all strings, but this is not possible with the TP pickup. I have to imagine that the GK running the TP box would yield better results from this feature alone.


For me here is what I like
RMC 13 pin guitars
-able to use them wirelessly!

Regular guitar with only FTP pickup installed
-don't have to ruin a nice flame/quilt top with the FTP on it! (mind you when I first made this the FTP connect was not around)
-now can use it wirelessly or with the axon


Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alexmcginness on June 21, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
Quote from: susbemol on January 19, 2016, 05:29:10 AM
I finished building mine and it is all working really well so far. :) Thanks again, CodeSmart and the others for the help.

I've written a blog entry with more details here: http://guitarsandsynths.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/roland-gk-to-fishman-tripleplay-adaptor

(https://guitarsandsynths.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/gk_to_ftp_adaptor_5.jpg)

Where did you get the cable to go from the break out box to the triple play? Is there a cable one can buy that has a connector that just plugs into the triple play connector inside the wart? Thanks for any help
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mooncaine on June 21, 2020, 04:13:01 PM
Good questions, Alex. Thanks!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on June 23, 2020, 03:11:36 AM
Quote from: alexmcginness on June 21, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
Where did you get the cable to go from the break out box to the triple play? Is there a cable one can buy that has a connector that just plugs into the triple play connector inside the wart? Thanks for any help

Pretty well what I built for ForumMember "Vade" a long while back...

PM me to talk about it if you like...

Cheers,
Peter
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on June 23, 2020, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: alexmcginness on June 21, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
Where did you get the cable to go from the break out box to the triple play? Is there a cable one can buy that has a connector that just plugs into the triple play connector inside the wart? Thanks for any help

There are lots of places online that you can get them from, for example: https://ebay.to/2Z5uwwP
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gumbo on June 23, 2020, 07:33:49 PM
Quote from: susbemol on June 23, 2020, 05:00:40 PM
There are lots of places online that you can get them from, for example: https://ebay.to/2Z5uwwP

But remember that you have to modify the locating 'ears' on the JST plug in order for it to enter the header on the FTP board....   ;)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alexmcginness on June 24, 2020, 04:09:04 AM
Ive got a spare GK-3 pickup without the wart that I was gonna pirate the cable off of and use that. I just have to open the TP wart and see if the connectors are the same. If so, Ill cut the wire off of the GK pickup and solder the wires on to a circuit board like the one here and go from there. If I ever need to re attach the TP pickup to the wart later on it will be no problem. ( hopefully :-)  )

Thanks for your help with this. This is exactly what Ive been wanting for ages. A way to run the TP with a gk pickup. I didnt quite grasp what  susbemol had built when I first saw it but the solution is just what the doctor ordered. Did you buy the circuit board off of Ebay as well?



Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: susbemol on June 24, 2020, 04:30:05 AM
No, that is just a bog-standard matrix board that I cut to size and soldered the trim pots and connections to.

What I built was a box that allows me to use a standard GK cable (with the GK preamp being powered by another device) and adjust the levels before connecting that to the Triple Play, in essence. Since then, I have built a couple of these for other people as well using mini pots instead, for example:

(https://i.imgur.com/edBCq1a.jpg)
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alexmcginness on June 24, 2020, 05:14:20 AM
OK! I found the PCB board so Im good to go. Thankyou for all your help guys.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: gearhound22 on June 24, 2020, 04:53:32 PM
I didn't need trimpots for my RMC/GK guitars
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: 80Hz on July 02, 2020, 09:07:04 AM
I didn't require trim pots to go directly out of the Godin to the Connect, but the 13 pin out of the Antares ATG-1 is hot and did need the trim pots (thanks Saulo Valerio for your help!).     I just made the video of my latest rig.   Godin > Antares ATG-1 > Adapter > FTP Connect > Ipad Gen4  (iRig Blueboard) and bothe the iPad and and Antares feed into the TC Helicon Voice Live Play  which sends the mix Guitar/Synth signal to the board on an XLR.   See full video here https://youtu.be/POhykbv3iNY
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: whippinpost91850 on July 02, 2020, 05:54:42 PM
Nice rig , reminds me of mine withe the integrated mic stand
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alexmcginness on July 03, 2020, 06:23:09 AM
Im currently in the process of building that box that susbemol generously posted the plans for. Just waiting for the last of the parts to arrive by mail.

80hz, great rig concept you have there. I especially like the idea of the rig being used as the base for the mic stand. Great outside the box thinking there.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: Nobulusprime on September 05, 2020, 12:07:01 PM
I might be a bit late to this thread, so apologies if I'm slow in picking things up!

All of my guitars have Roland GK-KIT-GT3 internal kits on them. I own a FTP connect and it's great and I can squeeze it in next to the GK2 on some of my guitars... What I'd really like is for the GK2 internal to drive FTP hardware so I don't have two pick ups on one guitar. As I understand it, this is possible and the FTP pick up has essentially the same (8pin?) connector (inside the case) as the GK and they are interchangeable though they have slightly different output volumes. I believe there is some form of jumper kit that you can put on the GK board which would mean that the Gk could output into the FTP connect. Obviously this would involve a bit of butchery of the FTP...

So I'm looking for a bit of advise for this method, it kind of the opposite of this thread essentially! I'd like a simple method to output from GK into the FTP connect chassis. I don't mind having the body of the FTP connect on my guitar but 2 pick ups is a bit too much!
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: alexmcginness on September 25, 2020, 07:10:47 AM
on the previous page of this thread is what I think, is the ideal solution to this problem. Your GK pickup can be used to drive the Fishman wart. Its a breakout box that has a GK input wired to the fishman wart.
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: 80Hz on October 04, 2020, 08:19:21 AM
Quote from: alexmcginness on September 25, 2020, 07:10:47 AM
on the previous page of this thread is what I think, is the ideal solution to this problem. Your GK pickup can be used to drive the Fishman wart. Its a breakout box that has a GK input wired to the fishman wart.


Follow this plan it works!  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.msg179802#msg179802
Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: mos6507 on October 09, 2020, 12:04:56 PM
BTW, I'm going back to work on a GK->FTP adapter.  I ordered a prototype PCB off of the design I left off of ages ago and we'll see if it works.  I was hoping to use the excuse of COVID to get back on this so hopefully during the winter months I'll finish it up, but no promises.

Title: Re: FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
Post by: 80Hz on December 20, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: mos6507 on October 09, 2020, 12:04:56 PM
BTW, I'm going back to work on a GK->FTP adapter.  I ordered a prototype PCB off of the design I left off of ages ago and we'll see if it works.  I was hoping to use the excuse of COVID to get back on this so hopefully during the winter months I'll finish it up, but no promises.

Any further developments on this?