Boss GR-D V-Guitar Distortion & Boss GR-S V-Guitar Space

Started by Orren Merton, November 01, 2012, 02:48:20 PM

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gandolf

Quote from: Orren Merton on November 02, 2012, 02:24:11 PM
     young users who are dipping their feet into playing guitar for the first time, and they're picking up the "kidney bean" POD and progressing to other gear.

Marketing 101: build a strong brand by establishing life-long users. Rule 1: start'em young!

...but this only low profit segment...eventually you need to cater for the "mature " market...that's we're the margins usually are. And the young'ens need products to aspire to... (You know the stuff with everything included that we really want to have.....no neither do I.... They must have stopped going to the marketing classes)

Bill Ruppert

As it was said a guitar COSM unit would have worked well.
Acoustic, Nylon, Sitar and different electrics and tunings would have been what people want and could use.
Maybe that is coming?

Bill Ruppert


vanceg

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on November 02, 2012, 01:52:03 PM
Come on Todd!
There is nothing new there.
Its all in your 99,this is stripped down.

Pretty much, that's true.  It does look like the chorus sound is, in fact, a polyphonic chorus, which doesn't exist on the VG-99.  I would love to just have some more Poly effect choices on the VG-99.  Perhaps the chorus from this pedal and the polyphonic ring modulator from the VB-99. 

But yeah - Pretty much everything on these pedals can be done with the VG-99...and lots and lots more.

oddguitar

So it seems like we've determined that the most of what these pedals offer is available within the VG-99......so my next question is: is most of what these pedals offer available within the GR-55?  If not, that would make a pretty compelling combo of a GR-55 expanded with the synthy and wave sounds of the VG-99.  Especially for those of us who don't want to buy both the GR-55 and the VG-99.

I agree with others that Roland should make a guitar modeling twin pedal that offers their guitar and bass modeling sounds and tunings.  Part of what has held me back from buying the VG-99 has been the complexity of it, and the fact that I really only want the guitar models, alternate tunings and ambient sounds of the VG-99, since I already have a Kemper for modeling amps & standard effects.

-oddguitar

gumtown

Trying to chain them in series to other GK ready units is still going to be a problem if you want to use more than one pedal.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

jburns

well mb someone would get one if looking for one certain feature. regardless its ALWAYS nice to see more gk stuff. maybe they'll be more like this, and one of them will be new/useful. no reason to knock and make fun of our younger gk siblings. other than that bill r pretty much said all. but id like to add, "strat-OH!-caster" and "prOH!cessor".

oddguitar

Quote from: gumtown on November 03, 2012, 01:40:19 PM
Trying to chain them in series to other GK ready units is still going to be a problem if you want to use more than one pedal.

I was thinking I could use the US-20 pedal, but on the Roland website it says "Compatibility with GR-33/30/1/09/50, VG-88/8, GI-10" and "GK-compatible unit selector with one GK-2AH input, two C-13 cable outputs".....does that mean that it's not compatible with the GK3/VG-99/GR-55/GR-S/GR-D?

-oddguitar

Elantric

#33
I use the US-20 all the time with all the new 13 pin gear too.
Just need the GK -Volume pot always mapped to Volume for it to work.

Details here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3494.0

tekrytor

The small footprint is interesting, might be nice if Roland made a "Micro-55" without a panel, just patch numbers, and with Bluetooth for control via Android or iPad apps.They would save the UI display hardware cost and make something even more compact. These two seem rather lacking in bang-for-buck though. I'm with the others on the  lack of 13-pin thru. If you're going to make an FX series, seems to me you would want to ba able to use them in series, like standard stompboxes.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

oddguitar

So.....can anybody tell me if it is possible to get the sounds of the GR-D and GR-S with the GR-55?....trying to figure out if buying the GR-55 will make the pedals redundant.

Thanks,

-oddguitar

drjoness2001

The GR-55 cannot reproduce the sound of the GR-D or GR-S, since it lacks the features like the poly fx and freeze features.

However, the VG-99 does have the ability to reproduce almost of the features of the GR-D and GR-S. The more full-featured VG-99 has poly fx (various poly distortion), freeze features, plus a lot more.

Quote from: oddguitar on November 05, 2012, 07:31:50 PM
So.....can anybody tell me if it is possible to get the sounds of the GR-D and GR-S with the GR-55?....trying to figure out if buying the GR-55 will make the pedals redundant.

Thanks,

-oddguitar

nosaintnick

Quote from: vanceg on November 02, 2012, 06:15:22 PM
Pretty much, that's true.  It does look like the chorus sound is, in fact, a polyphonic chorus, which doesn't exist on the VG-99.  I would love to just have some more Poly effect choices on the VG-99.  Perhaps the chorus from this pedal and the polyphonic ring modulator from the VB-99. 

But yeah - Pretty much everything on these pedals can be done with the VG-99...and lots and lots more.

Couldn't you just activate the 12 string function and oscillate the fine tuning to varying degrees per string to approximate poly chorus on the 99? I have a metal rhythm patch with just the top two strings oscillating so the low stuff stays focused but the high harmonies are spaced out.

kloniwotski

#38
Quote from: nosaintnick on November 07, 2012, 11:07:56 PM
Couldn't you just activate the 12 string function and oscillate the fine tuning to varying degrees per string to approximate poly chorus on the 99?

Yes, in the assign section, using a wave internal pedal to alter the 12-string fine tune with the gross tune setting at 0 (same note as the input string) possibly using a non-zero 12-string pre-delay function too for extra colour. You can then set different sweep timing and depth per-string like this.

Or you could do the same thing using two identically set-up 6-string cosm channels, except for a similarly modulated tuning "bend" on one of them, I suppose.

Or combine, with 12-string pseudo chorus on each channel plus "bend" modulation on just one channel for 4-way per-string chorus, if there are enough assigns to cover that! :)

Though I guess it doesn't have quite the sophistication of a full chorus effect (which I don't know, but I think might involve some filtering too) you can definitely get some pleasant sounds just using the 12-string method on one channel.

A bit OT (sorry),  the ring modulator on the VG-99: might not be polyphonic, but I've noticed some oddness with it: I have a (cosm only) patch which has strings 5 and 6 with 100% vol and 1-4 with 0% on channel B and the exact reverse on channel A and RM enabled on both channels. If I play a long note on the bottom E and, while it's sounding, a few notes on top E, I can hear the RM distortion on the bottom note as though I were playing the notes on the same channel. Not sure whether that's bleed from channel A into channel B or whether the RM is "hearing" the 0% volume notes on channel B. Kind of a bug, really, I think. I've used it to get some weird effects where the RM harmonics from  a note sequence on A's strings echo out as distortions over long notes on B.

(edited for clarity)

gumtown

Quote from: kloniwotski on November 08, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
Or you could do the same thing using two identically set-up 6-string cosm channels, except for a similarly modulated tuning "bend" on one of them, I suppose.

Or combine, with 12-string pseudo chorus on each channel plus "bend" modulation on just one channel for 4-way per-string chorus, if there are enough assigns to cover that! :)
But that is only possible on the VG-99, the GR-55 has only one "cosm channel".
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

kloniwotski

Quote from: gumtown on November 08, 2012, 11:08:47 AM
But that is only possible on the VG-99, the GR-55 has only one "cosm channel".

Yes, I was replying to a post which specified the "99".

drjoness2001

Quote from: kloniwotski on November 08, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
A bit OT (sorry),  the ring modulator on the VG-99: might not be polyphonic, but I've noticed some oddness with it: I have a (cosm only) patch which has strings 5 and 6 with 100% vol and 1-4 with 0% on channel B and the exact reverse on channel A and RM enabled on both channels. If I play a long note on the bottom E and, while it's sounding, a few notes on top E, I can hear the RM distortion on the bottom note as though I were playing the notes on the same channel. Not sure whether that's bleed from channel A into channel B or whether the RM is "hearing" the 0% volume notes on channel B. Kind of a bug, really, I think. I've used it to get some weird effects where the RM harmonics from  a note sequence on A's strings echo out as distortions over long notes on B.

(edited for clarity)

I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?

kloniwotski

#42
Quote from: drjoness2001 on November 08, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?

I knew I was opening a can of worms here! :) If I ever get a windows PC and the VG-99 in the same room again, I'll post the patch and you can experiment. In the meantime, I'll re-investigate and if the phenomenon persists, I'll post in a different thread describing it. I don't want to drag this one (any further) off-topic. Sorry!

gandolf

Quote from: drjoness2001 on November 08, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?

I've experienced similar issue on the bass....and it can be more evident on some patches.  This is despite the fact that i play finger style, with mainly rest strokes (so there is a lot of natural damping of strings)... on some patches there are even harmonics being triggered....that i can't even replicate on my normal pu!!

i think it all comes down to both playing style and patch settings...and being prepared to play different patchess with a different technique...but I'm still working on this.

If you are new to guitar synths, i think you just have to expect a bit of a learning curve to get settings + technique exact....i hope to get my training wheels off soon!

It's a lot more involved than just adding a stomp pedal...

But feel free to post some tips ...... :D

kloniwotski

Quote from: drjoness2001 on November 08, 2012, 12:00:14 PM
I have experienced something similar, but it had nothing to do with the VG-99, it was open strings gently sympathetically resonating with the low "E". Can you try your patch out, but physically muting the strings that you do not intend to sound?


I posted a horrendous sounding demonstration of what I'm talking about at: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7303.0 I think you'll agree there is nothing gentle or sympathetic about the sounds therein... :-D

happyjay

Quote from: oddguitar on November 04, 2012, 07:12:50 AM
I was thinking I could use the US-20 pedal, but on the Roland website it says "Compatibility with GR-33/30/1/09/50, VG-88/8, GI-10" and "GK-compatible unit selector with one GK-2AH input, two C-13 cable outputs".....does that mean that it's not compatible with the GK3/VG-99/GR-55/GR-S/GR-D?

-oddguitar

I think the US-20 ought to work with them. They don't say the US-20 works with the VG-7 either but it does. Also there are multiple threads out here about custom GK splitters up to 4 GK-outs and some that do really nice stuff like give you discrete 6-string output.

It dawned on me recently about one reason why Roland might not be building GK-out in these later things. They never planned on chaning GK in the beginning, and GK is a powered connection. What if you sent juice to something that wasn't expecting/couldn't handle it. IMO it's high time Roland re-imagined GK. They have proven the concept (and we've been great guinea pigs) but the limits of the original spec have been made very clear. Maybe the new Fishman release will put enough pressure on them to go back to the drawing board. Yes, I know it will obsolete a lot of gear (mostly owned by users on this forum) but somethimes that's the cost of progress.

Now_And_Then

Quote from: happyjay on November 10, 2012, 01:48:04 PM
IMO it's high time Roland re-imagined GK. They have proven the concept (and we've been great guinea pigs) but the limits of the original spec have been made very clear. Maybe the new Fishman release will put enough pressure on them to go back to the drawing board. Yes, I know it will obsolete a lot of gear (mostly owned by users on this forum) but somethimes that's the cost of progress.

A few comments on your comments:

1) "They have proven the concept..." is not very popular compared to the market for other guitar processors.

2) "Maybe the new Fishman release will put enough pressure on them to go back to the drawing board..." if it really sells lots and lots of units, which it probably won't because the only guitar-midi device that has proven popular to this point in time is the GR-55 and that if it weren't for the COSM parts, then it would not have been as popular as it is. The number of guitarists interested in midi-guitar is such that midi-oriented guitar products will always remain a niche market.

3) "Yes, I know it will obsolete a lot of gear (mostly owned by users on this forum) but sometimes that's the cost of progress." And that cost would be unacceptable. For example, I have a lot of GK stuff. And Roland's refusal to update the VG-99 is, in itself, enough to make me doubt that I will buy any more of their units - should they even release anything in the future that piques my interest, which they might not. And the chances of me writing off my current kit and, essentially, starting anew, are approximately zero. It would take, literally, years and years to release new GKv2 gear to give me the capabilities which I now have. And I am not going to spend the money to replace perfectly functional gear.

4) Most importantly, as I think about it, a GK v2 would not have to make all current GK kit obsolete. I can not see why it would not be possible to have a GK-to-GKv2 adapter box, so that I could plug my GK into a GKP-4 (or US-20 or SGUS-3) and have one of those outputs feeding a GK-to-GKv2 adapter, and the rest feeding GKv1 devices. Or connecting the GK directly to a GK-to-GKv2 adapter which would be capable of driving both GKv1 and GKv2 devices.

I can not imagine anything like that actually happening, though. The VG-99 sold horribly. I imagine the VB-99 sold even worse (although I have to assume that that was no surprise, and was probably expected.) The first two GK pedals, from Boss, sold (well, as far as I know) horribly. And these, at the price Roland wants for them, won't do any better. And that in turn will make Roland all that much hesitant to make any more worthwhile GK kit.


aliensporebomb

Well, whose fault is that that the VG-99/VB-99 sold poorly?  I haven't seen ANY advertising in the last 2+ years (closer to 3-4 in fact) and every time I play out I literally get this from other players:  "how come I didn't know about this?  This thing is amazing."  The price is high but professionals can afford any tool they choose to use but what good are the tools if nobody is aware of them?

At the very least they needed to release a VG-99EX which would have been the same hardware with some updated Poly FX and other bugfixes and then release an ENTIRELY NEW set of patches suitable for todays music as the default patch set.

I suspect someone in Roland involved in the VG-99 development was involved in a social gaffe or dented the luxury limo of some Roland higher up.  It seems politically unpopular to the point where they don't want to bother advertising it or even acknowledge it exists.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Orren Merton

Quote from: aliensporebomb on November 11, 2012, 09:04:49 AM
Well, whose fault is that that the VG-99/VB-99 sold poorly?  I haven't seen ANY advertising in the last 2+ years (closer to 3-4 in fact) and every time I play out I literally get this from other players:  "how come I didn't know about this?  This thing is amazing."  The price is high but professionals can afford any tool they choose to use but what good are the tools if nobody is aware of them?

I agree with all that, but I wouldn't stop there. It's not just Roland's fault. We all know that the majority of guitarists are chasing old dreams—50 year old guitars through 40 year old amps. Anything modern or high tech is a tough sell. And if you need to install a whole new pickup—something that either makes your guitar look ugly or requires "surgery" on your instrument—that makes it even less interesting to someone who dreams of being Jimmy Page, Van Halen, or Jack White.

My first jobs were in market research and marketing. I have to admit, I've thought about the best way to market this stuff to the "uneducated guitarist masses" and I really can't think of anything. I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that they came up with a marketing strategy as soon as the VG-99 came out, rolled it out when the unit debuted, and when they didn't see an uptick, canned it, using the above as their excuse and MIDI Guitar's track record of never really catching on.

Once again, I share all your disappointment and I too want an everything box, but I also never forget that many little companies (and yes, I put Fishman in there until we see how their Triple Play sells) who dabble in MIDI guitar fail. Roland is the one major company who to their credit, hasn't abandoned this technology. So while I too yearn for more and better, I also am glad they don't just kill it altogether.

Orren

tekrytor

I think the GR-55 is supposed to be to the all-in-one box. But it's not quite "all", having a subset of the VG-99 features, it's not impressing the VG-99 owners like it could. I would forgive Roland if they simply gave us the full MIDI implementation for what it does do.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices