Cycfi Six Pack Project - Hexaphonic Pickup Project

Started by Elantric, May 24, 2013, 04:33:28 PM

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djowel

Quote from: KuRi on March 27, 2014, 09:33:04 AM
When will we see this installed on guitars ready for sale? XD

The first batch of Neos... It is a very limited production run, as planned. It won't be installed on guitars yet as the first batch is targeted towards guitar builders.



Elantric

#51
Congratulations on your progress with this effort!

Thank for sharing



Cycfi Six Pack Project - Hexaphonic Pickup Project



http://www.cycfi.com/2014/08/infinity-control-panel/




The Nu Series Modular Active Pickups are hacker friendly, general purpose pickups that can be used in a variety of applications. These are active multichannel pickups with low impedance coils and integrated single-ended, low-power, low-noise preamplifier for each coil. These low-profile, Neodymium-core pickups are modular and can be used individually or in groups.

https://www.cycfi-research.com/product/nu-capsule/

Nu-Exploded

The Nu Series Modular Active Pickups are hacker friendly, general purpose pickups that can be used in a variety of applications. These are active multichannel pickups with low impedance coils and integrated single-ended, low-power, low-noise preamplifier for each coil. These low-profile, Neodymium-core pickups are modular and can be used individually or in groups.


Multichannel (8-String) Nu System with Internal Breakout

This is the next evolutionary stage of our flagship multichannel Neo pickup. The Nu sports better crosstalk performance using permalloy ring shields and even lower noise with improved discrete preamp design. Most importantly, they sound just as good as the original — same coil, same magnetic structure.

The pickups are designed for multichannel effects processing — one for each string (distortion, EQ, compressor, delay, pan, pitch-shift, etc). Such extensive processing is now possible due to advances in digital signal processing and the proliferation of multi-channel audio interfaces and multi-track audio software.

These modular pickups are not just for guitars. Nus can also be utilized for other musical instruments such as the bass guitar, harps, pianos, xylophones, etc. The Nus are perfect for fanned-fret electric guitars (and basses) where the pickup poles are positioned at various angles.

djowel

Quote from: Elantric on April 03, 2014, 06:50:32 PM
Congratulations on your progress with this effort!

Thank you, Steve. Now that I got that out, I can start seriously looking into the notes you sent sometime ago. I already have some questions. I'll compose some in an offline email.

vanceg

Digression:

Sweet photo - I've got a set of the original Bartolini humbucking Hex pickups installed in one of my instruments.  LOVE those pickups. 

Quote from: admsustainiac on October 22, 2013, 02:10:31 PM
Might work as a replacement for a dead Bartolini 6 channel PU in a Steve Ripley 6 channel guitar
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ripley-Guitars/124241834292134


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Ripley

vanceg

Cycfi Research are expanding their line of forward thinking projects with a Polyphonic Sustain system, AND a concept for hex processing.  Looks VERY interesting to me.  What I have seen out of Cycfi so far is very impressive.  I received some of their NEO pickups recently and I'm very impressed.  I have great hope for this project.

http://www.cycfi.com/2014/06/the-infinity-project/


billbax

Hi Vance,

Thanks for pointing this out.  Like their idea of individual string pickup modules, as this provides great flexibility as shown.

Bill

thebrushwithin

Seems pretty cool, but I like the Keith McMillen StrongArm sustainer idea better, as you can use any mags you want, because this idea uses only piezo saddles to accomplish the poly sustain. Also, it can be used with a computer to achieve the same individual string processing, even for soft synths, but you don't need to use the USB connection for the sustain at all. Once you get used to the poly sustain, like I have with my Moog EM-1, the harder it is to go back to normal guitar, as it really opens up some creative uses. My main gig is playing at fairly low volumes, and the poly sustain is truly awesome. I am really happy many inventors are heading in this direction. The more, the merrier!!!

vanceg

Yeah I like the KMI strongarm system as well. I look forward to it coming out!


Quote from:  thebrushwithin on June 17, 2014, 11:10:26 AM
Seems pretty cool, but I like the Keith McMillen StrongArm sustainer idea better, as you can use any mags you want, because this idea uses only piezo saddles to accomplish the poly sustain. Also, it can be used with a computer to achieve the same individual string processing, even for soft synths, but you don't need to use the USB connection for the sustain at all. Once you get used to the poly sustain, like I have with my Moog EM-1, the harder it is to go back to normal guitar, as it really opens up some creative uses. My main gig is playing at fairly low volumes, and the poly sustain is truly awesome. I am really happy many inventors are heading in this direction. The more, the merrier!!!

thebrushwithin

I had signed up for update notices, sometime ago, and never heard anything. So, I asked them if there was any further news, and the reply was "As soon as we have an estimated date we will definitely update everyone. Thanks! ". There original projection, if I remember, was the 2nd quarter, but I am not sure. Anytime this year will be fine for me, as I am seriously considering selling many of my guitars, to pay for a custom build, including the sustainer. Just really tired of compromises with guitars that have only one or two features I like. I am looking for a #1.

djowel

#59
Quote from:  thebrushwithin on June 17, 2014, 05:25:06 PM
I had signed up for update notices, sometime ago, and never heard anything. So, I asked them if there was any further news, and the reply was "As soon as we have an estimated date we will definitely update everyone. Thanks! ". There original projection, if I remember, was the 2nd quarter, but I am not sure. Anytime this year will be fine for me, as I am seriously considering selling many of my guitars, to pay for a custom build, including the sustainer. Just really tired of compromises with guitars that have only one or two features I like. I am looking for a #1.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm not sure how I missed that. Was that for the Neos? I sent notices when we had our initial production run. It will take more time for the development of the sustainer though. I'll send you PM.

Elantric

#60
http://www.cycfi.com/2014/08/infinity-control-panel/



Infinity Control Panel
  Joel de Guzman  August 18, 2014  Infinity, Neo Series, Open Source, Pickups, Software
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Infinity_GUI

After a few iterations using my favourite graphics tools (Photoshop, Illustrator, iDraw, and Solidworks (for anything 3D)), I think this is the minimal interface I really like. I prefer using 3D CAD software for designing GUI controls even if in the end, you won't really see the finer details once the images are rendered to a 72dpi screen (see slider at the right). slider-whiteI love solid modeling and Solidworks is simply irresistible, once you get to know the software. There's also this nice Java app for designing knobs called KnobMan. It's so nifty! And it's free. it's so useful I didn't hesitate to donate, never mind if it's written in Java (argh!). I used KnobMan to design and render the sprites needed to animate the knobs.

Controls
Mixer: The usual suspects: level, pan and enable switch for each channel, mix to stereo.
Envelope: The sliders control attack/decay ratio (horizontal axis) and the sustain level (vertical axis). The first two knobs control the attack, decay and sustain rates. The third knob controls frequency scaling. Typically, plucked string instruments have less sustain, the higher the frequency (e.g. for guitars, the low E string sustains longer than the high E string). Frequency scaling controls sustain reduction as you go up in pitch.
Virtual Pickups: Here's where you control timbre using virtual pickup simulation (see Virtual Pickups Series: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3). The upper sliders control pickup placement and skew. You can have up to three virtual pickups with controls for level, cutoff: low-pass cutoff frequency and resonance (Q). You can choose single or double coil, in-phase or out of phase and pitch tracking. What is pitch tracking? Imagine the pickup moving closer to the bridge as you fret upwards. With pitch tracking on, the same harmonic shape tracks the pitch —the nodes and antinodes follow the pitch. With pitch tracking off, the harmonic shape is fixed.
Future Features
We'll improve this interface incrementally over time. Additional features I am excited about are:

Waveshaping: Distortion/overdrive in steroids. I want this to be envelope controlled. And, since we have independent control of sustain, we do not need to push this too hard to get that silky sustain heavy metal folks love. It's purpose will be solely for timbre control. It's all about tone!
Waveguide and Karplus-Strong synthesis. I'm a fan of sympathetic resonance. I love innovative (and sometimes weird!) instruments that make use of sympathetically resonating strings such as the Hardanger fiddle, Harp guitars, and instruments with a third-bridge. Now, imagine the actual guitar signal driving some synthesised virtual strings. Waveguide and Karplus-Strong synthesis should not be limited to sympathetic resonance. The piano, for example, has two or three strings per note, which gives it its distinct harmonic quality from the complex interaction of the strings.
Pitch shifting: Global and independent pitch control for alternate tunings, pitch changes, and even whammy bar effects (e.g. using a ribbon controller). Vance Galloway elaborates: I actually rather like what the VG-99 does whereby the user has control of the "tuning" of the guitar, then can decide to double any string (like a 12 string guitar) with the doubling string at any pitch and volume relative to the original, then also have control of "bend" for each string (enabling a pedal steel type effect by using a controller to 'bend' any set of strings by any amount, and then also have a "whammy bar" type bend for all strings. The VG-99 does a good job at this. That said – your system could go far beyond this by allowing much more real time control of tunings, more than one doubled string (4 chorused strings anyone?!).
And again from Vance: what about a "self tuning" mechanism. That is: a pitch shifter which is intended to correct tuning of the instrument. The old Roland VG-8 had this feature. You out the system into "listen" mode, then play all of the open strings, the system detects how much each string is out of tune and applies a pitch shifter to that string to compensate. I'm not thinking of anything as elaborate as Antares' board which does real-time intonation correction, but rather just a quick way to correct for a guitar that has gone out of tune.
Here's one from David Myka: A virtual TransTrem concept where each string can be pitch bent individually to harmonize through a scale, or descend atonally, or anything. A modified rotary controller with a tensioned bar could be installed in the guitar to control it. Xaled Xaled adds: virtual capo would be a nice feature as well. Obviously per string in advanced mode. Controlling advanced settings can be done using fret control:http://www.autotuneforguitar.com/technology/fret-control.php.
Convolution and Impulse Response. You want accurate modeling? Nothing else compares. I'm thinking about the ability to morph between two impulse responses. Imagine smoothly morphing from a classical guitar timbre to a solid body electric.
Chris Varnon suggested individual envelope, pickup location or other controls for each pickup. It would add a lot of clutter to the current interface so maybe that would be better for an "advanced mode" tab. Vance Galloway adds: One interesting feature of the Roland VG-88 was its ability to place the virtual pickup on a per-string basis. I found that this really produced some interesting effects – I could "tune" the pickup placement for each song I played, so that each pickup for each string produced just the right timber. Being able to switch or even morph between pickup locations on a per string basis is going to be quite powerful.
Mark Galang reminded me of control over partials/harmonics especially when using the sustainer driver. Úlfur Hansson did quite some amazing things with partials/harmonics control using our much loved comb-filters in his electro-magnetic harp. I know how it's done. It's just a matter of presenting an intuitive user interface.
Yet another idea for "someday" from Vance Galloway: Even though we have a sustainer in this system, I would love to see a polyphonic "hold" effect implemented. Perhaps this is one best suited for the laptop to do, bit it would be neat to have it inside the guitar. Electroharmonix has a monophonic pedal version of this effect and the VG-99 has a polyphonic version, and it's really quite powerful and useful. Basically it's a small looping delay with a very smooth crossfade designed to "hold" whatever note is currently playing. It's an intimate sustain.
The Roland VG-99 version is near because it's polyphonic (separate delay/sustain/loop) for each string.What they fall short on is that the user has no control of which strings are intimately sustained and which are not – all strings sustain, or none sustain.Imagine a multichannel/polyphonic version of this where the user could turn on/off the sustain on a per string basis.One could imagine being able to hold some strings and not others. Or, what if Sustain was turned on by the attack of a new note – you could create sustained chords which would be possible to play in real time by doing something like playing an open E on the low E string, then a E at the 7th fret of the A string, then a B at the 9th fret of the D string, then a G# on the 13th fret of the G string, another E at the 17th fret of the B string and a super high E on the 24th fret of the high E string.Each string would automatically enter its "hold" mode when a new note was played on it.
David Myka on sustain control: The sustain per sting is an awesome idea and one of the most exciting things about this design. Perhaps the level of sustain could be controlled with small ribbon controllers (one for each string) and they could be induced into sustain when strumming a chord and then sliding up the gain. I wonder if a reset button could also be employed. Something that either tops the sustain immediately or gradually. Just thinking out loud.
From Xaled Xaled: Polyphonic MIDI-out would be a great side project.
What else? If you have something in mind, tell me what you think!





http://www.cycfi.com/blog/

Terry50

Just read your hex pickup now in Oct 2014.
I have been a long time user of the Bartolini hex.
The one thing that hasn't been conquered to this day is the fact that each pickup also picks up the adjacent strings miniscully (small)  but when you decide to retune electronically the pitch with the distortion and gain up high, you also pickup the string which is still in it's original tuning and it throws unwanted pitches into the music.  You have to have a pickup that is separated enough to block out the adjacent strings.  Without distortion, using clean sounds, you can mask the improper notes.
Terry

Virtual Madness

Hello Joel,
I get more and more excited every time I see any progress at all with your various projects. My offer to loan you a Roland GK-2a still stands should you ever need it. I myself am not very technically inclined in these things, and am but a lowly musician. However, my long standing dream was (and still is) to have a Roland GK-2a/GK-3 pickup (same ohms, same magnetic pull) inside a standard Strat pickup cover, with adjustable pole pieces to accommodate any radius. Are we any nearer to having that be a reality?

Thank You, Royce  :)
The greatest power in the universe is imagination!

vanceg

Take a look at Cycfi's Sidewinder project.  Promising.


Quote from: Virtual Madness on October 27, 2014, 07:39:12 PM
Hello Joel,
I get more and more excited every time I see any progress at all with your various projects. My offer to loan you a Roland GK-2a still stands should you ever need it. I myself am not very technically inclined in these things, and am but a lowly musician. However, my long standing dream was (and still is) to have a Roland GK-2a/GK-3 pickup (same ohms, same magnetic pull) inside a standard Strat pickup cover, with adjustable pole pieces to accommodate any radius. Are we any nearer to having that be a reality?

Thank You, Royce  :)

Elantric

#64
http://www.cycfi.com/2013/11/sustain-myth-science/#comment-7406
"Sustain" Myth and Science
  Joel de Guzman  November 10, 2013

Question: Which solid body guitar has better sustain, the Fender Stratocaster or the Gibson Les Paul? If you were like me, you'd probably pick the Les Paul. I've taken it as plain truth that there's no competition: Gibson Les Paul = incredible sustain. Boy, was I so wrong!


Read Joel's article here:
http://www.cycfi.com/2013/11/sustain-myth-science/#comment-7406

Terry50

Hi    :)
Why don't you just use the Roland hex pickup (GP-10) ??  I've done all what you are planning 20 years ago with Bartolini hex pickups.  Cross talk prohibits pitch changes with any high gain presets.  Even the Line 6 guitar picks up the string next to it in high gain.
Terry    8)

vanceg

Well, you may be getting too much crosstalk using your Bartolini pickups to allow for pitch change, I know I do when I use my Bartolini equpped hex guitar.  The VG-99 used the GK-3 pickup or a piezo based pickup and performs individual string pitch shifting very admirably.  The Cycfi pickups claim less string crosstalk than the GK-3 and therefore should allow for individual string pitch shifting.  I see no reason whatsoever why they would not.


Quote from: Terry50 on February 07, 2015, 12:44:29 PM
Hi    :)
Why don't you just use the Roland hex pickup (GP-10) ??  I've done all what you are planning 20 years ago with Bartolini hex pickups.  Cross talk prohibits pitch changes with any high gain presets.  Even the Line 6 guitar picks up the string next to it in high gain.
Terry    8)

Elantric

https://www.cycfi-research.com/product/nu-capsule/

Product Description

Nu Series Modular Active Pickups

Nu-Exploded

The Nu Series Modular Active Pickups are hacker friendly, general purpose pickups that can be used in a variety of applications. These are active multichannel pickups with low impedance coils and integrated single-ended, low-power, low-noise preamplifier for each coil. These low-profile, Neodymium-core pickups are modular and can be used individually or in groups.


Multichannel (8-String) Nu System with Internal Breakout

This is the next evolutionary stage of our flagship multichannel Neo pickup. The Nu sports better crosstalk performance using permalloy ring shields and even lower noise with improved discrete preamp design. Most importantly, they sound just as good as the original — same coil, same magnetic structure.

The pickups are designed for multichannel effects processing — one for each string (distortion, EQ, compressor, delay, pan, pitch-shift, etc). Such extensive processing is now possible due to advances in digital signal processing and the proliferation of multi-channel audio interfaces and multi-track audio software.

These modular pickups are not just for guitars. Nus can also be utilized for other musical instruments such as the bass guitar, harps, pianos, xylophones, etc. The Nus are perfect for fanned-fret electric guitars (and basses) where the pickup poles are positioned at various angles.

vanceg

I have received my set of NU multichannel pickups and the Internal Breakout Board for CycFi and after a (very) easy connection process, I got them up and running with output on a 13pin jack. 

I've only done basic testing through the VG-99 thus far, but my initial reaction is that this would be a FINE replacement for the GK-3.   Tones through my VG-99 seemed to be a bit "fuller" and more "alive" than with the GK-3, but the difference wasn't "Night and day".  All the processing that is going on in the GK-3 is making the two pickups sound more similar than they do straight into an amp or mixer.  I did plug them each into a mixer and into an amp.  THERE the difference is REALLY noticeable.  The NUs actually sound like real pickups.  I could easily imagine running the NUs directly into an amp or effects chain... something I can't say for the GK-3.  Also, the NUs, being active, can be mixed together into one mono signal simply by connecting all the hot signal leads together, so the NU's could be used as a hex pickup sometimes and also  easily switched to standard mono output when you arent' using 13 pin gear.

A great surprise was when I learned I could use the 7V that is on the Roland 13 pin to power the NUs.  With just a 13pin jack and a few cables, I was up and running.  I could EASILY see replacing an entire GK-3 setup with the NUs.

Also, if you've got a fanned fret instrument, or an instrument with odd string spacing, the NU's can be purchased individually and placed anywhere you want.

I'm really impressed with these.  Really seriously impressed.  I've got no fewer than 5 types of hex pickups, and these are my favorite.

Note that Cycfi doesn't seem to be FOCUSING on 13 pin use of their gear... they are more interested in addressing the needs of people with fanned fret or extended range instruments, as well as those who want a truly full range, very clean pickup... but I'm tellin ya right now that the NU seems to function quite well with the VG-99.

Important notes:
I've just started testing these pickups and probably won't have another instrument to install them in again for about another month... so this should be considered preliminary.

I've become such a fan of the CycFi pickps that I've been providing thoughts and assistance to the folks at Cycfi, including little bits of stuff at the NAMM show with them.   But note that I'm not an employee, contractor nor am I compensated in any way for speaking so highly of them  I've just been looking for such a pickup system for a long time and I'm excited this one is actually working.


fokof

#69
Thanx for the review Vance

Do you know if the multi-pin connector on the "PCI" board is compatible with Graphtech ?
(Size wise)

Probably not the same Pinout....

What have you used yourself as GK connector /ribbon ?


Majiken

Vanceg, please keep us informed, it seems like this has had a fair development time and since you have such deep experience with hex pickups (seems to me you are at the forefront of hex technology in general) I am keen on taking note of your perceptions. Thanks!

Best, Kenny
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

vanceg

#71
I know for sure that the multipin outputs on the Cycfi Internal Breakout Card is not directly compatible with the multipin connector on the Graphtech 13pin outuput jack.  But, the connection between the CycFi Internal Breakout card and the 13pin jack was SUPER easy.  I just used standard "schmartboard" jumpers and made the 6 connections for signal, one for ground and one for the 7v from the Roland 13pin to the Cycfi pickups.  Total breeze.  Be sure to ground the 13pin connector to it's shield.


Be careful, though, the Graphtech 13 pin output jack assembly has high pass filters built into it.  You wouldn't want to use one of those for the CycFi (well, it would just roll off some low end).
That said - I did use one of these Graphtech 13pin output jack assemblies but I happen to have some from a (brief) era when you could order them without the high pass filters on them... (they haven't offered that in many years). 


The signal levels out of the NU pickups is a bit hotter than the GK-3 so I ended up turning my inputs on the VG-99 down to 1-12 (depending on the string) but other than that, the CycFi NU was an immediate a SUPER easy replacment for the GK-3...

NOTE:  if you use the 7volts from the Roland 13 pin system to power the NU pickups, Instead of a dedicated 12V power supply that is standard for the NU pickups, then the NU Internal Breakout Board will NOT be able to provide power to other powered pickups you may have in your guitar, nor can it provide the 9V for extra controls (knobs/switches/faders).  These functions require a true 12v into the Internal Breakout board.  The fun point is - The NU pickups can run perfectly well as a GK-3 substitute using just the 7V from a Roland 13 pin device...but can do even more if you feed it 12V.


Quote from: fokof on June 26, 2016, 06:52:12 AM
Thanx for the review Vance

Do you know if the multi-pin connector on the "PCI" board is compatible with Graphtech ?
(Size wise)

Probably not the same Pinout....

What have you used yourself as GK connector /ribbon ?

mooncaine

Vance, are you able to wire up GK knob and Gk switches 1 and 2, as well, with this nifty Nu setup?

Very excited to learn from you about this, and appreciate your taking the time to share your experiences with us.

vanceg

Quote from: mooncaine on July 14, 2016, 10:04:16 PM
Vance, are you able to wire up GK knob and Gk switches 1 and 2, as well, with this nifty Nu setup?

Very excited to learn from you about this, and appreciate your taking the time to share your experiences with us.

I surely will be able to wire this up.  It shouldn't be hard at all.  I'll just mimic what goes on in the GK-3, which is pretty simple in terms of the electronics.  That said, I haven't done it with the NUs yet.   It's really just a matter of putting a couple of switches and small resistors in there and connecting the right pins on the 13 pin connector.


Majiken

Vance, how do you think these would work as straight pickups for acoustic guitars? I have a wooden dobro that for some reason is balky with the standard solutions.
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks