Can the GR55 sound as good as the GP10?

Started by mmmmgtr, September 17, 2015, 09:27:08 PM

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mmmmgtr

My question stems from all the rave reviews on the out of the box sounds in the GP10. I'm trying to understand if it's a matter of the GP10 simply having better sounds or is a matter of needing to work on the patches in the GR55 in order to make them better. Is there any direct correlation to allow you to modify a GP10 patch and move it to the GR55?

Elantric

#1
It's the meat and potatoes guitar sounds for playing gigs

Using a guitar with GK-3, run the GP-10 straight to a good PA and the DSP COSM modeling in the GP-10 has more dynamics , sounds a bit more like a nice tube amp being mic'ed correctly and the "Feel" as a player correlates closer to playing a genuine traditional  guitar rig as I used back in the day.

Add the ultra fast patch switching time and 4 possible Assignable control pedals and Expression pedal that can morph from acoustic guitar to a Clapton /Mayall Blues Breakers Solo in the same patch  -all add up to why I use the GP-10 at far more gigs , while my GR-55 with its one Control pedal and 300 Millisecond Mute on every patch change ( death in a trio) collects dust.

With careful pre gig planning , Many folks have found work arounds to use the GR-55  effectively in a "one patch per song format, but that requires a balancing act of riding the expression pedal to access changing your tone from Rhythm to Solos.

Playing synth or trumpet sounds with random bad notes with a guitar at gigs is a novelty that if overused , typically has a negative impact on getting rebooked. Or if your tracking is flawless, the audience can get bored thinking you are performing to backing tracks.

I read folks talk about how their bands sound improved when they added prerecorded backing tracks to the bands routine. But I have witnessed the opposite. The crowd responds far more favorable when they see , hear, experience  genuine musical talent being demonstrated in stage. And you don't need any gear we talk about here at VGuitarForums to become a better musician.


mmmmgtr

Thanks for the reply. One thing that really annoys me is the fact the the GR55 has really poor sustain.  I can't find a patch where I can hold a note and let the gain just feedback. Is the GP10 better in the aspect?

Elantric

#3
I have lots of sustain with GP-10

The GP-10 has better cab sims  and the COSM AMP "feel" in GP-10 is more like a tube amp or a Kemper

(Others agree here)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13050.0

Listen to GP-10 patch examples here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=158.0

Magiamusical

Now that I have both the GP-10 and the GR-55 I can say that its easier to get a nice guitar tone with the GP-10 and with the 2 extra external controllers its versatile enough to use a patch per song. Now the GR-55 it takes more time to get a nice guitar tone (Still the GP-10 its Better) but when you play an acoustic sound with strings in the background or a brass accents the GR-55 is a lot better.

For me they totally different and both have their place in my home studio and on the road.

Godin LGXT, Les Paul Studio w/GK3, JTV89F w/GK3, GR-55

gumbo

Quote from: Magiamusical on September 20, 2015, 10:40:37 PM
Now that I have both the GP-10 and the GR-55 I can say that its easier to get a nice guitar tone with the GP-10 and with the 2 extra external controllers its versatile enough to use a patch per song. Now the GR-55 it takes more time to get a nice guitar tone (Still the GP-10 its Better) but when you play an acoustic sound with strings in the background or a brass accents the GR-55 is a lot better.

For me they totally different and both have their place in my home studio and on the road.

I agree.. I am running both..
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Litesnsirens

I have both but I only use the GR-55 for live and rehearsal for all of my bands.  That said, the GP-10 does have some advantages over the 55, I just need the synth stuff.  Elantric is right, I think too much use of the synth stuff is going to get old fast but to me, judicial use is great.  I would say 60 to 70 % of my patches have no synth assignments whatsoever although some use the acoustic model.  In the songs that I use the synth stuff it's often just for a quick burst here or there, and then there are 2 or 3 tunes in which it dominates the majority of the playing.  The point is we aren't limited to song choice based on the instrumentation of the original song.  If people are watching the band they will see that we are playing the parts. 

As for the actual guitar tones I absolutely love the guitar tones I am getting out of this box, it could be my particular set up but it is working great.  I do feel that now that I have figured out the GR-55 for guitar tone I could dial in great tones on any other boss device.  I have proven this to myself with the GP-10 and VG-99 and I imagine I could do pretty well with a GT-100 which I may end up getting.

So can the GR-55 sound as good as the GP-10?  I think it gets pretty damn close and it may depend on what you are playing through.  Which one to get is really going to depend on your personal priorities.

Willie941

Quote from: Litesnsirens on September 22, 2015, 04:25:24 AM
So can the GR-55 sound as good as the GP-10?  I think it gets pretty damn close and it may depend on what you are playing through.
True, the band I'm playing in is a "Santana style" latin rock band, so I went from the scratch and created some presets using both, modelled and normal guitar sounds (nicely balanced), they go through an amp simulator with an overdrive set to "natural" which gives the same effect of saturation of an amp with the volume knob completely up (10-11), like they did in the past. When playing songs like "Love of my life"  I hear my guitar almost identical to Carlos' guitar. The GK3 volume knob is set to the overdrive gain and it works the same as if I were using that on my guitar, up...gives a nice overdrive, and rolled back a little bit it's a clean sound. I got good sustain, too.
I use only my GR55 always, at rehearsals and live gigs.
Parker Nitefly SA w/GK3
Godin ACS SA Nylon
Roland GR 55 and VG 88
Fishman SA220 Soloamp
TC Helicon Voicelive2

supernicd

Agree with all of the comments here so far, and I think you have to really evaluate your goals and needs vs. the features (and shortcomings) of each unit to decide what is really the best choice for you.  Tone is subjective, personal, and also very context sensitive.  If you were able to take a recording of a song you thought had great guitar tone, and solo the guitar track, you might find that on its own, the guitar sounds like **** because it has been EQ cut like crazy to make it sound great in the mix.

Specifically on the question about sustain - I am not sure that I'd say the GP-10 "sustains better than the GR-55."  I can make my guitar connected to the GR-55 and plugged into a solid state near-FRFR amp sustain a note for longer than I or anyone else would care to listen to it.  Sustain starts with your instrument.  A well crafted, well set up guitar made of quality materials will sustain for longer than one that isn't.  New strings will sustain longer than old, rusty ones.  Compression (both from an FX pedal and the natural compression of your amp or amp model) will extend your sustain.  Having the volume of your amp loud enough to create sympathetic resonant vibrations on your guitar strings will increase sustain.  There are a lot of variables in the sustain equation.

I use the GP-10 live.  I've found 90% of what I use are bread and butter traditional guitar tones, the occasional alt tuning, acoustic emulation, and a few "special effects" here and there.  The GP-10 gets me all that with the least amount of fuss and tweaking.  Honestly I'm still using very slightly tweaked factory patches for most songs.  The 55 is lacking in what I'd call "bread and butter guitar" factory presets.  Almost all of the 55s presets have the magnetic pickups disabled.  I love having the COSM models available, and use them, but I still use mag PUs whenever I don't have a specific need.  They are still the most gratifying.  The GP-10 comes with a lot more bread & butter factory presets that take advantage of the mag PUs.  But that doesn't mean you can't create or download some for the 55.

All that said the GR-55 does some things the GP-10 can't.  Do you need/use those things? :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mmmmgtr

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm not surprised to find that the basic answer is "it depends".

I'm still struggling with the whole sustain thing. I'm not a newbie. I've been playing for a very long time and my guitars (Parker Flys) have great sustain. I previously used Rocktron preamps and they had awesome guitars sounds and sustain. With the 55, although I like the  tones, I can't get that "infinite" sustain that I could get with the Rocktron gear. I guess I'll need to try a GP10 to see for myself. The harmonizer is also lacking compared to what I could do with the Rocktron gear.

Does anyone have a GR55 patch that you feel gives a good example of long sustain? Of a good harmonizer? Both of these would be lead sounds with fairly heavy distortion.  The harmony would be a simple 5th above. Thanks in advance fir any help or ideas.

Elantric

#10
If you want sustain on GR-55 , engage the Compressor  or Limiter and disable the GR-55  Noise Suppressor ( N.S.) on the specific patch

The GP-10 has improved dynamic range , and when the Noise Suppressor is de-activated, it's apparent the GP-10 has less hiss when chords ring out

supernicd

Yep, that. I am not in front of my 55 and probably won't be today, so I hope my memory is working correctly. But also look at factory patch 03-01 Legato solo. Turn the PCM voices off., and if there are any non-guitar HRM voices in play, those too.  If I'm thinking of the right patch, the amp model used in that patch offers a pretty good natural tube high compression emulation.  Might be a good foundation for what you're looking for, and if I'm remembering right, that patch doesn't already have the comp on so you can engage that and squish it more .
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Litesnsirens

If I'm not mistaken, that patch actually uses the limiter as opposed to the compressor which I have found on the GR 55 is better for getting sustain.  Try the limiter in place of comp or drive and see how that works.  I can get ridiculous sustain.  Start with the level on 50, but keep in mind as you turn the level up it increases the drive, the volume boost and sustain all at once so you need to find the sweet spot and maybe make some adjustments to the amp model to compensate.

mbenigni

#13
Quote from: Litesnsirens on September 30, 2015, 04:28:41 PM
If I'm not mistaken, that patch actually uses the limiter as opposed to the compressor which I have found on the GR 55 is better for getting sustain.  Try the limiter in place of comp or drive and see how that works.  I can get ridiculous sustain.  Start with the level on 50, but keep in mind as you turn the level up it increases the drive, the volume boost and sustain all at once so you need to find the sweet spot and maybe make some adjustments to the amp model to compensate.

The GR-55 limiter also works wonders on the COSM acoustic guitar models.  I mention this here because it was the shortest route to making the GR55 sound like the GP10 for acoustic guitar tones (along with a touch of EQ.)

JZZGTR

Eric Johnson's overdrive patches from the Roland web site have sustain........all........day.........long.

TheGrail

mmmgtr,
Off topic, but I just wanted to say hello to a fellow Parker Fly / GR guy. There are not too many of us so I wanted to say "hey!".

Roy
VG-8, VG-99, GR-55

Guitar, Bass, Engineering, Production and Insolence.
YouTube channel : https://goo.gl/x4KnOp
SoundCloud : https://soundcloud.com/roysmith

mmmmgtr

Hey Roy! Yea, I love those Parkers. Too bad the US production is shut down. I'm trying to add a Parker with the internal GK to my collection,  but just haven't found the right deal yet...

I will have an update on my new rig with the GR-55 shortly. It's almost complete.

I've learned that this forum can be my best friend and my worst foe. Everyone here is great and I always get a lot of terrific advice. However, I have a tendency to take some comments a little bit too much to heart. All the praise for the GP-10 had me doubting my rig using the GR-55.Thankfully based upon some of the feedback I received in this thread I dug back into my GR-55 and I'm really happy with the results. Thanks to everyone that has contributed.

Willie941

Quote from: TheGrail on October 28, 2015, 05:11:20 PM
mmmgtr,
Off topic, but I just wanted to say hello to a fellow Parker Fly / GR guy. There are not too many of us so I wanted to say "hey!".

Roy
Parker Nitefly SA user here, it's a 2006 model, so it feels like a real Fly with just a bit more wood on it.  ;D
Parker Nitefly SA w/GK3
Godin ACS SA Nylon
Roland GR 55 and VG 88
Fishman SA220 Soloamp
TC Helicon Voicelive2