Elantric's Computer

Started by Elantric, May 25, 2012, 07:39:08 AM

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whippinpost91850

Thanks Elantric. I've reread most of the posts, But admit I'm still a bit overwhelmed/confused. my budget is probably up to $1800-$2000 if neccessary. I want to deal with the least bit of latency and agravation as possible. I don't mind used but don't want something to outdated or can't update memory etc  . I used Macs for years , But the last 5 or so years I've been using PC's for work.

Kevin M

Quote from: whippinpost91850 on December 07, 2012, 01:23:42 PM
Thanks Elantric. I've reread most of the posts, But admit I'm still a bit overwhelmed/confused. my budget is probably up to $1800-$2000 if neccessary. I want to deal with the least bit of latency and agravation as possible. I don't mind used but don't want something to outdated or can't update memory etc  . I used Macs for years , But the last 5 or so years I've been using PC's for work.

Have you thought about which DAW software you might be interested in?  Maybe this is a good starting point since it could imply which OS you would use.

whippinpost91850

I have Protools 10 that came with my My poor lonely Eleven Rack, But Ive never used it. Some people say It's a little complicated to use, but I don't know. I'm not married to any one thing though and at my "advanced age" I think I want something fairly intuative.

Elantric

QuoteI have Protools 10 that came with my My poor lonely Eleven Rack, But Ive never used it.

I recently acquired an Eleven Rack +Protools 10 bundle myself $650

For Protools 10, I will use my Lenovo W520 running Win7 64 Pro, with I7 CPU, 32GB RAM, Dual 750GB HDDs, dedicated 256GB mSATA SSD for Komplete 7 VSTI sample playback. I have the W520 version with 1920 x 1080 display. Great machine - they can be found on Ebay for $1100.

Since Protools 10 uses the iLok - it allows you to install it on multiple machines - so i will also install this on my 2011 Mac Mini and 27" iMac 

All three have Intel i7 CPUs

whippinpost91850

Interesting Which system do you find the most advantageous to use ? Mac or PC  ???

Elantric

#55
Macs have more flexibility and lower latency.

A used 13", 15" 17" Macbook Pro with i5 or i7 CPU, large HDD is ideal.

The latest 2012 versions are less interesting, as they removed Firewire, and went all USB 3.0, and OSX Mountan Lion 10.8 has many issues with audio stuttering.

On my Mac's I'm sticking with OSX 10.7 Lion, and Snow Leopard and I require Firewire for my MOTU 828MK3, Phonic Helix 18, and many Sony / Canon DV  / HDV camcorders and Gibson  / Echo Audio RIP Firewire Audio Interface for my Gibson Dark Fire

I use the Lenovo W520 mostly due to bulk of my employment work being mobile PCB design with Altium Designer  / Protel 99SE and its my "go to machine" today.

The Mac Mini is cool, yet awkward due to the need for a separate display. and the iMac 27" is too large to move       

whippinpost91850

Elantric thanks. I have been leaning towards a MAC and your info has probably just sealed the deal ;D Again thanks you allways seen to have excellent insightful information. 8)

LPHovercraft

Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2012, 02:12:26 PM
Macs have more flexibility and lower latency.

Not to troll - but I'd *love* to understand the origins of any known universe where this is a categorical truth.
Houston Haynes - LPHovercraft

Kevin M

I think platform is mostly subjective. I have used Windows and Sonar for quite a number of years with no issues with latency or performance - even with large numbers of tracks and soft synths. For daily use I prefer Mac or Linux (it's a unix, thing. :-) ), but I have too much invested in my DAW platform choices to move away from it.

Elantric

#59
QuoteMacs have more flexibility and lower latency.

OSX allows low latency "Aggregate Audio Device" (i.e. use multiple separate hardware interfaces to create one large multichannel device) using Core Audio 
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1215

By contrast, Windows relies on Steinberg ASIO drivers for low latency, and you rarely can use more than one interface at a time.

I have far more audio routing options on OSX to share audio streams among several apps running at the same time using Soundflower .
   
http://soundflower.en.softonic.com/mac

But hey - I just use the best Software I need and can afford for my work, and then run it on the best platform recommended by the software vendor.

musicman65

#60
Quote from: LPHovercraft on December 07, 2012, 02:39:26 PM

>>>> Macs have more flexibility and lower latency.

Not to troll - but I'd *love* to understand the origins of any known universe where this is a categorical truth.

In the grand scheme of computing, that statement is categorically incorrect. In the tiny world of music production, it's a perception based on experience. Either platform can be very flexible and extremely low latency. The pc world is vast and many machines are simply not designed with music production in mind, therefore PC selection is more critical. This pushes many right brain creative types to choose a Mac as an appliance that "just works"....which in and of itself is a myth. In the larger view, PC's are vastly more configurable and flexible for those willing to work with the platform. Only 1 of every 8 personal computers run MacOS today.

Edit: but either platform will work fine. Apple makes a very nice (but pricey) computer, no doubt. And its 1 in 12 (8%) MacOS market-share today.

bd

Kevin M

Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2012, 03:29:20 PM
OSX allows low latency "Aggregate Audio Device" (i.e. use multiple separate hardware interfaces to create one large multichannel device) using Core Audio 
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1215

By contrast, Windows relies on Steinberg ASIO drivers for low latency, and you rarely can use more than one interface at a time.

True, although I believe you can work around this by using two or more of the same devices (eg two MOTU 828's) when using ASIO under Windows.

Elantric

#62
If your budget allows - buy one Mac and one Windows PC. I have had to use and support both since the 80's , and Ive had more luck with Macs being more stable and reliable. Yet I use my Windows machines more as i use one for my day gig. (Dell Optiplex 980)

Ive had more headaches with my Windows machines - seems anytime I want to be creative and record a song, is the same exact time Windows Update kicks in and clobbers my machine and schedule. Had my first blue screen in years last week on my Lenovo - traced to a free Video conversion app I downloaded.  ( running a drive scan with Malware Bytes fixed it)

As always - review your software requirements, select the best app for your needs, and then buy the best computer you can afford to run it.

I always recommend buying 10 month old technology - because the latest bleeding edge tech is typically very unstable.

aliensporebomb

#63
Currently I'm running a 2009 Core i7 iMac with 16 gigs of 1333 mhz memory, a 1 TB internal drive, an external 3 TB firewire 800 array and 4 USB2 storage drives (topping out around 7 TB total). 

I run Logic but honestly use Garageband for songwriting because it's very fast and hassle free and then I can save that session and open it in Logic and then throw "the works" at it once the tune is ready for the full production treatment. 

I've recorded my last five CDs here.  Thus far I've produced over 142 projects this year.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

tekrytor

IMO, if you're doing any serious recording, you don't want to be online or even have your network connections active, thus updates disabled, regardless of which platform is used. Mac, Windows and Linux can all work well and all have advantages and disadvantages. IMO, if you're making money making music or just have a lot of money, go Mac and ProTools... It's the industry standard. If you're a total Greek and can tweak all the bits and bytes, go Linux for absolute control and enjoy writing your own drivers. Otherwise, Windows is the "Everyman" software platform with the most hardware options too, and priced in the middle. But it always like arguing religion... No winner, never ends, etc. 20 years on and we're still squabbling over OS wars... Having both hardware platforms gives you all options' and buying year old ones saves a lot on the cost of doing it. Buying the newest is usually a waste.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

szilard

I built a DAW a couple months ago and I'm happy with it's performance. If you go the PC route ...

i7-3770k (3.5 GHz), ASUS P8Z77 V LE Plus, 16 gig RAM (1600MHz), Antec Sonata IV case, Samsung 256 gb SSD, 1 tb Velociraptor HDD, Liteon Blu-ray, and Firewire card. Win 7 Pro 64 bit OEM. Total cost was around $1600.

Toby Krebs

I agree with Elantric. Windows update blows...

kenact

Quote from: Toby Krebs on January 05, 2013, 10:06:45 AM
I agree with Elantric. Windows update blows...

Computer support is my 9-5 gig and I have seen more people have their computers compromised because they didn't install Windows Updates, than I have seen computers crash because they did install the updates.
Godin Session & Montreal FTP, LGXT, LGX SA, Redline, ACS, A12, A11, A10, A4
Danoblaster Baritone w/GK-3
Gretsch Nashville, Viking
Fender Strats
Fret King Supermatic
Larrivee DV03RE
Parker Midi Fly
Seagull, S&P 12
VOX Phantom XII
GR-55, 33, 30, 20, GI-20, RC-50, US-20, VG-99, VP-7
Sentient 6
Cyr 7

germanicus

#68
You can schedule it so it checks for updates at a certain time and wont otherwise both you. Set it for 4am on monday morning or something.

I enjoy building my own PC's. You can get alot more value by doing it yourself and end up with a very more powerful system this way.
My albums done with modeling/guitar synth at http://music.steamtheory.com

JTV69/59P/Godin LGXT/Multiac ACS/Variax 700 AC
Helix/FTP/GP10/VG99/SY1000
Traynor k4

musicman65

I develop and sell mission critical software solutions and will not warranty a system with automatic updates enabled. I've seen updates break an application and it may take months for the manufacturer to develop a patch to allow the app to function.

If your DAW is dedicated to the task and not used for typical internet use, turn off updates. If it's a daily driver and is used for everything, leave updates on, use an anti-virus, and firewall. Expect your PC to be somewhat less responsive but very usable....just not optimal.

My DAW is an old XP Pro box that just works and works. It's dedicated to the task and has a minimal custom install of the OS with all unnecessary services disabled. It is very responsive, boots in 20 seconds. It needs updating but it works flawlessly....so I let it run.

bd


Elantric

Since earlier posts in this thread talk about Macs with Thunderbolt ports - just wanted to inform that an important Belkin Thunderbolt™ Express Dock adapter will be shipping soon, and adds many important missing functions to many Thunderbolt equipped Macs

http://www.belkin.com/us/thunderbolt



Introducing Belkin Thunderbolt™ Express Dock

Thunderbolt is a quantum leap forward. Suddenly everything is faster, easier, better. Thunderbolt moves data on two bidirectional 10Gbps channels. That's 20 times faster than USB 2.0, 12 times faster than Firewire 800. And it means an entire

HD movie transfers in 30 seconds. A whole year of continuous music? 10 minutes.

Life on your laptop is about to be very different. In a very good way.
Easy is beautiful.

With Thunderbolt™ Express Dock, all your drives, networking, input and output devices connect to the 8 ports on the back. It in turn connects to your laptop through 1 Thunderbolt port. In short, eight cables become one cable.


So taking your laptop when you go, and bringing it home when you return means dealing with a single cable. Which connects you to a very brave new world indeed.
Beautiful is beautiful.

We thought that a technology as brilliant and beautiful as Thunderbolt deserved a dock that not only performs at the highest level, but looks the part as well. So we designed The Thunderbolt™ Express Dock with an elegant, low profile. Simple is beautiful, and Thunderbolt™ Express Dock is a shining example.
Download HD feature film: 30 seconds.
Sync a year's worth of continuous music: 10 minutes.
First Quarter, 2013: Thunderbolt™ Express Dock will be here fast



mbenigni

QuoteBelkin Thunderbolt™ Express Dock adapter

That is cool.  I wish MS had gone with a Thunderbolt port on the Surface instead of a Mini Display Port.  I can't much see the benefit of Display Port vs. HDMI, but Thunderbolt opens up a lot of possibilities.

I am surprised, though, that the Belkin adapter doesn't include a full sized HDMI output, for owners of non-Thunderbolt monitors.

Elantric

#72
The similar Matrox DS1/HDMI Thunderbolt Docking Station has either HDMI or DVI
http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/press/
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=897995&Q=&is=REG&A=details
http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/


Basically you choose the model that fits your thunderbolt expansion needs.

I'm looking for expanding my 2011 iMac. Earlier proto versions of the Belkin Dock had eSATA, but now they have three USB 3.0 ports.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/01/07/ces-2013-belkin-drops-esata-support-for-upcoming-thunderbolt-express-dock-cuts-price-back-to-299/


Im now looking at this DIY Thunderbolt to eSATA adapter
http://camerarentalz.com/diy-thunderbolt-esata-adapter/

Elantric

http://news.aesshow.com/2013/03/focusrites-popular-saffire-firewire-interfaces-fully-compatible-with-thunderbolt-ports-on-mac/
Focusrite's Popular Saffire Firewire Interfaces Fully Compatible with Thunderbolt Ports on Mac
QuoteFocusrite's Popular Saffire Firewire Interfaces Fully Compatible with Thunderbolt Ports on Mac
March 8th, 2013 Posted in News, newsletter
Bucks, UK — Since the introduction of the first Focusrite Saffire interface in 2005, FireWire (Apple's trade name for IEEE 1394) has been a firm favorite among Focusrite interface users with its high speed and reliability. In particular, FireWire and USB represent a great partnership – by having your audio interface on one type of bus and your hard drives on the other, you get the highest possible performance from your computer audio system, and the fewest problems.
Now, on the latest Apple computers, FireWire 400 and 800 ports have been superseded by Thunderbolt – a new, high-speed serial interface developed by Intel and Apple. Happily, it's easy to connect your Saffire interface to a Thunderbolt-equipped computer.
All you need to connect the two is a FireWire 400-800 cable (included with all new Saffire interfaces later this year) and the Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 adapter, available inexpensively from Apple and third parties. Simply plug this into the Thunderbolt port on your computer and connect the FireWire interface – it's as simple as that. Saffire interfaces are 100% compatible with Thunderbolt using this adaptor.
The adaptor provides up to 7W of DC bus power as well as full signal connectivity: this should be sufficient for most interfaces but Focusrite always recommends using the included power supply with your interface for best results.
Focusrite will continue to fully support the Saffire range for the foreseeable future, and will fully support the use of Thunderbolt/FireWire adaptors. If you upgrade your computer to one with Thunderbolt, you can continue to use your Saffire interface as before, and if you buy a new Saffire interface it will work perfectly with your Thunderbolt-equipped computer, whichever model of Saffire you choose.
Focusrite Saffire interfaces, with their precision digital conversion and acclaimed clean, transparent mic preamps, deliver excellent performance and functionality for all kinds of recording applications in the studio and on the road.
Novation is a division of Focusrite Audio Engineering Limited which is a company incorporated and registered in England and Wales with company number 2357989 whose registered office is Windsor House, Turnpike Road, High Wycombe, Bucks, HP12 3FX, UK. If you have any questions please click here or call +44 01494 462 246 to contact us.
www.focusrite.com

Kevin M

Quote from: Elantric on March 08, 2013, 02:10:29 PM
http://news.aesshow.com/2013/03/focusrites-popular-saffire-firewire-interfaces-fully-compatible-with-thunderbolt-ports-on-mac/
Focusrite's Popular Saffire Firewire Interfaces Fully Compatible with Thunderbolt Ports on Mac

I think I would rather wait for true Thunderbolt connectivity in an audio interface rather than having multiple cables for one connection.