FTP real time parameter setting changes

Started by alancarl, February 20, 2016, 06:11:59 AM

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alancarl

Hi,
     Awhile back I started to analyze the midi comm between the FTP app and the controller in hopes to be able to change some of the settings on the fly via midi without a computer hooked up.
Has anybody been able to recreate a midi command stream that will control the dynamics offset control?
It seems to be a combination of Sykes and cc commands on channel 8.
I have read Shawnb's FTP midi doc and it is very good but this area is one he suggests avoiding...but I just can't help myself!
Thanks,
Al

Spider

Technically you could do that from FTP hardware (D-Pad) but you are blind...

shawnb

If you don't want a computer in your rig, yet still want different parameters for different synths, my first suggestion is to use HW mode.  Another option is the FC-1. 

I've only figured out some of the messages on the control channels.  Not the dynamics setting. 

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

alancarl

Thanks Shawn and Spider...
      I actually have 2 hardware host setups For the FTP:
The FC-1 and the original Iconnectmidi.
What I am looking for is the midi commands that the FTP control app uses to set the parameters of the FTP hardware so I can make some of these adjustments in real-time like say from a midi cc knob on my guitar.
I envision being able to change the dynamics offset parameter while I am playing to be able to get more dynamic colors out of whatever synth sound I might be triggering.
I have figured out some of the midi commands but not this one...
Thanks
Al

Spider

Is it possible to change parameters for every patch in HW mode using FC-1?
For sure FTP has ability to change every aspect of patch in HW mode using D-Pad but...  we don't have display for that. Even if Andras Szalay will give us instruction like he did earlier

It is more or less accidental that the default of the Global Parameter MONO/POLY is MONO, while Patch 0 is programmed to TRIGGER Mode. You can change this to AUTO with the following sequence:
ENTER; EXIT; EXIT; EXIT; DOWN; DOWN; DOWN; ENTER; EXIT.
Once you do that your Patch 0 will change to AUTO. If you want to set it back to TRIGGER, then do a MEMORY INIT as described before.

Andras Szalay


it would be a problem without some visualization.

alancarl

Thanks Spider,
        Well the blind D-pad route won't cut it for sure. I'm looking for the midi command string so that I can recreate it and adjust the value with a potentiometer.
I have figured out the commands to set individual string sensitivities via an external midi control app but not the midi dynamics offset yet.
I know that what I am looking to do is possible... It's just unfamiliar to me as to how the FTP app controls the hardware params in the midi stream.
Thanks again,
Al

Spider

Quote from: alancarl on February 21, 2016, 04:45:43 AM

I have figured out the commands to set individual string sensitivities via an external midi control app but not the midi dynamics offset yet.

Could you show us this commands? You catch it using MIDI Monitor?

shawnb

If you have found a technique to monitor the FTP control port reliably, in either direction (from app to ftp or vice versa), please share!

I don't recall ever being able to monitor the FTP app's activity going TO the FTP.  Since they communicate directly, there's no way I can think of to route the MIDI traffic to MIDI OX for observation.  There's no output port on the FTP app to tap into...   

I do know that whenever a DAW or other utility has allowed me to select that FTP control port, strange behavior followed.  As a result, I always tell folks to avoid those control ports.  Keep them de-selected. 

I have been able to monitor & decode the CC activity coming FROM the FTP's "normal" port, on channel 8.  They basically reflect operation of the controls on the FTP - the d-pad & GMS switch.  (Some of those learnings are reflected here:  https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6296.msg87424#msg87424)
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

alancarl

Hey Shawn and Spider,
      I will definitely share... I had a oh crap moment earlier when my MBP battery died and I couldn't find the charger... :-0 that coupled with the search for my notes on the FTP app to hardware midi commands that were also hiding with the power supply have delayed my reply... along with my Sunday morning gig:-)
When I get back home I will post my findings. I would like to format a table like Shawn did so that will also add some time.
For starters I am using Midi Monitor for OS X, the original Iconnectmidi and Midi Designer Pro for iOS to get this remote control thing going.
More to come soon!
Thanks
Al

alancarl

#9
Here is a table of the MIDI data that is sent from the FTP app to the hardware to set the various string sensitivities..
The MIDI data is in simple decimal number format where a string like:
8 31 60 represents MIDI channel 8, CC number 31, at a value of 60.
The numbers from my table below that a pattern emerges from are the cc 63 values-- i.e. cc 63 values 80 thru 95 address the low E string sensitivity then cc 63 values 64 thru 79 address the low A string sensitivity and so on.
Notice that each string sensitivity value address is preceded by the same 8 31 60 MIDI data string which I think may be identifying the type of parameter about to be changed..in this case guitar string sensitivity and the 8 63 xx MIDI data string identifies which guitar string is about to be edited and what sensitivity that it is being set to.



There are quite a few more pieces to this puzzle. The string sensitivity parameters with up down arrow data entry are relatively simple to recreate compared to any parameter with a slider for value entry like the Dynamics offset parameter.
I have been working on the slider type commands but the resulting behavior is indeed a bit flakey!

Have fun and beware of strange behaviors...I have found that I can control the FTP without a computer by sending the MIDI data strings from my iPad with MIDI Designer Pro and my IconnectMidi I/O to my FTP receiver/controller.

The FC-1 does not seem to pass the midi data I sent to it's DIN MIDI input onto the FTP receiver.

Perhaps Zoltan can help with this? However the IconnectMIDI does work now!!

Thanks.
AL

shawnb

I'm curious - how did you monitor the midi traffic from the app to the ftp?   
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

alancarl

Quote from: shawnb on February 21, 2016, 08:50:43 PM
I'm curious - how did you monitor the midi traffic from the app to the ftp?

I monitored the midi from the app to the hardware with MidiMonitor in OS X. I filtered out active sensing, PB, and the data from the FTP Guitar port as it is labelled in OS X..this made the volume of MIDI data strings a lot more interpretable!


shawnb

#12
alancarl -

The CC values to change these parameters are VERY interesting & helpful info. 

As you learn more CC values for other parameters please continue to share here!

Shawn
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp