GK3 install on Fender Strat Plus, pls help

Started by pasha811, December 24, 2010, 07:18:35 AM

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pasha811

Willing to install GK3 on a Fender Strat Plus sing double sided tape method.
However as reported into the GK3 owner manual and various guides on the internet it seems that
to achieve 184R as radius I have to rotate the screw clockwise until I reach the end.
The GK3 guide reports 9.2mm as maximum height of yokes and pickup and I guess it's when
you turn the screw clockwise. Is this correct?
I have only 9mm between the strings and the pickguard so in that case I'll have to make the bridge
higher which is something I do not want to do given the actual action and intonation which is perfect...

- Best
- Pasha811
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Anyone?

String clearance seems to be lower than the pickup itself.
I have to turn the screw counter clockwise to make yokes lower.
This is not the recommended setting for a Stratocaster (184R).
What is the lowest yoke position? The manual reports 8mm for the PU edge but
9.2 when yokes are at its maximum height. Without modifying the  bridge
I have about 9mm. what would you suggest?
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

paults

If you are using the GK with the VG-99, you do not have to match the fingerboard radius.  You can adjust the string sensitivity for each string in the VG.

If the pickup does not fit under strings, a slot can be routed into a pick guard, or a hole can be cut into it, if that is easier for you to do.  If you don't want to modify the stock pick guard, you can get a Fender replacement, or some other brand.   

pasha811

Quote from: paults on December 26, 2010, 04:18:18 PM
If you are using the GK with the VG-99, you do not have to match the fingerboard radius.  You can adjust the string sensitivity for each string in the VG.

If the pickup does not fit under strings, a slot can be routed into a pick guard, or a hole can be cut into it, if that is easier for you to do.  If you don't want to modify the stock pick guard, you can get a Fender replacement, or some other brand.   

I do not have the real thing here. That were my physical tests before buying. Guitar is 21 years old and I'd like to retain action and intonation as it is.
So if I turn the screw counter clock wise I can adjust sensitivity via VG99 later. That seems to be good news. However, I do not want to dig holes into the guitar
or mount the GK3 with screws. I'd like to do it with double-sided tape. I hope that by using the GK3 almost flat (400R) and compensating with VG the PU will still
be able to drive the VG. My concern is that every Fender installation I have seen and read about seemed just like a breeze... Has the stock Fender Stratocaster (2007 onwards)
a bigger clearance between strings and pickguard normally?
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

musicman65

Every stra I have owned or built has different geometry that leads to bridge sadde heights being different. I usually shim the neck pocket and raise the saddles so the gk pickup is ideally located while flat on the pickguard. In my experience, this Is what needs to happen if the strings are too low and you don't want to change the pickguard, thats the best way. You can remove the shim and readjust the action anytime to put the guutar back stock.

bd in tn

pasha811

#5
Quote from: musicman65 on December 27, 2010, 09:19:52 AM
Every stra I have owned or built has different geometry that leads to bridge sadde heights being different. I usually shim the neck pocket and raise the saddles so the gk pickup is ideally located while flat on the pickguard. In my experience, this Is what needs to happen if the strings are too low and you don't want to change the pickguard, thats the best way. You can remove the shim and readjust the action anytime to put the guutar back stock.

bd in tn


Thanks a Lot!!!!
Just to be sure my understanding is correct you suggest raising the saddles and at the same time put some shim between the neck and the body to compensate for saddles new height so that you're ideally moving everything up, retaining the same action while making room for the pickup. Is that correct?
That needs better skills than I have.. I can raise the saddles a bit (action will change) and re do the intonation. Yesterday I went to the store with my guitar and a block of iron with the same dimensions as the pickup. You're right every fender in the store had different string clearance! Some of the most expensive had less than 8mm! I can now confirm to myself that the GK3 pickup is NOT a breeze to mount on every strat like Roland says in the ads. It requires modification of you current action at least by raising the saddles. To compensate for that you might want to change neck tilt and curvature. However the GK3 out of the box is 8mm and it fits under my strings. The thickness of the doublesided tape is less than 0.5mm (can you confirm that?)
so that makes 8.5mm and I have 9.1mm that makes 0.6 clearance. Too little. While it's not a problem to raise the saddles 0.4mm is that disrupting my zero force no rattles intonation and action? It seems the only option left is to use the screw and do NOT rotate clockwise the yoke adjusting screw in the middle of PU. In this way I will not achieve radius of 184R typical for a strat. Will that work?
... The store guy proposed to buy VG99 and Godin XTSA for 1700 Euros...  
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

musicman65

Shimming the neck to raise the strings from the body is simple.

1. Remove the strings, measure the neck angle to body at the bridge using a straight edge and then remove the neck screws and neck.

2. Use a business card and make a shim that is 30% the length of the neck pocket. Insert it in the pocket and reinstall the neck with screws snugged.

3. Use the straight edge to check for a change in height. If it looks good, restring...otherwise, adjust the shim thickness.

4. After restringing at low tension (tuned down), set the neck firmly in the pocket by working it back and forth a little. Adjust so the strings are centered on the fretboard. Tighten the neck sctews and tune to pitch.

bd in tn


pasha811

Quote from: musicman65 on December 27, 2010, 11:31:12 PM
Shimming the neck to raise the strings from the body is simple.

1. Remove the strings, measure the neck angle to body at the bridge using a straight edge and then remove the neck screws and neck.

2. Use a business card and make a shim that is 30% the length of the neck pocket. Insert it in the pocket and reinstall the neck with screws snugged.

3. Use the straight edge to check for a change in height. If it looks good, restring...otherwise, adjust the shim thickness.

4. After restringing at low tension (tuned down), set the neck firmly in the pocket by working it back and forth a little. Adjust so the strings are centered on the fretboard. Tighten the neck sctews and tune to pitch.

bd in tn



I thank you so much but I have to admit it's not for me. I'm very bad in those things.. I know myself not being the classic  DIY person.. but an horror story version ;-)
However a friend of mine offered me its used GK2A that with its 7.6mm thickness sits nicely under my strings and there's space for double tape too.
Is GK2A good enough to drive VG99?

- Best
- Pasha811
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

aliensporebomb

GK2A should be fine.  And reading this I'm thinking I should keep my GK3 on my Jackson Soloist.  I thought about moving it to the strat.  Maybe not!  I also have horror story constructo-skills.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

musicman65

The GK2A has virtually the same performance as the GK3. All you lose is thr ability to adjust the radius. If you have a stock Fender neck, you should be fine.

bd in tn

pasha811

Thanks! :)
At the moment I am testing various positions before installing it with double tape.
My Fender Neck is standard. It's a 1989 Strat Plus De Luxe with tilt mechanism in the neck but curvature is standard.
I have tested with a spacer and I have got 1.5mm more or less under every string. This means that by adding a 0.5mm
double tape or a .25mm double tape plus something I can respect the 1mm requested by the manual.
Do you think a 1.5mm distance is too much?

- Best
- Pasha811
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

pasha811

Quote from: aliensporebomb on December 28, 2010, 08:39:47 AM
GK2A should be fine.  And reading this I'm thinking I should keep my GK3 on my Jackson Soloist.  I thought about moving it to the strat.  Maybe not!  I also have horror story constructo-skills.

What I have done to test was : Took some Ikea small flat iron pieces they uses to connect furniture and glue them together with clear tape. That takes exactly 8mm.
Which this 'pickup avatar' I tested the clearance under the strings and found that many Fender Models in the shop simply had less clearance than 8mm between the strings
and the pickguard. By simple calculation, a GK3 will all the yokes retained in the PU body takes 8mm sharp. so if you apply screw and your clearance is 9mm you're ok.
Otherwise you have to raise .20mm the bridge saddles to have space for double tape. 3M makes a good one that's only .19 mm thick. This will leave 1mm sharp between
GK3 and strings. At the moment I'm playing with a GK2A because it's only 7.6mm, that leaves more space for setup.

- Best
- Pasha811
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Midiman57

I've had an old Fender Squier that I upgraded the pickups and electronics in years ago. I installed a GK-2a pickup. It's worked fine for a long time. I recently got a deal on a GK-3 and removed the old 2, only to find it's taller and won't fit under the strings. I checked it my 50th Anniv. Series and my Am. Dlx HSS.No go without cutting out the pickguard. I'm astounded Roland didn't know this and warn people.

Elantric

#13
Many GK-3 users shim the Strat Neck, and raise the bridge saddles to gain the clearance for the GK-3 PU. 
http://www.roland.com/V-Guitar/howto_st.html
But why not go back to the GK-2A? - there is zero difference in tracking  / sonic ability between these pickups. its simply a different control layout. I actually prefer the older pickups, and use the Yamaha G1D myself.

Midiman57

I'm not bothering with shimming the neck. It's a '94 Squier without an adjustable, 2-pole bridge. I'll chop up the pickguard. The thing's only purpose in life has been to host that GK-2a pickup for the last 10 years. It won't bother me in the slightest to work on it with a chainsaw. I'm not sure what's under the guard... wait, yes I am. The two screws are in solid wood, so I can just cut the whole area out.

Midiman57

#15
Incidentally and in the way of introduction, I'm not sure how many of you may have ever run across this GI-10 related website:

http://pages.slic.com/snolan/

I put that up maybe a dozen or more years ago when I was just starting to be an old man. It's an antique site with outdated information, but I thought it merited a slight revamp. Mostly because it's hosted on a server with a company I haven't done business with in over 10 years and I have no access to their servers anymore. I'm not sure why they even left it up all this time. I finally bought a domain name for the thing and am in the process of maybe updating it a little bit. It's new home is:

http://www.gi10-manifesto.com

It was probably the first or second website I ever developed after they started allowing images in the HTML spec. I even did a Lightwave 3D render for the home page. It was probably developed on a Commodore Amiga, on which I did significant work with the developers of Music-X. You'll find my name in the manual somewhere. I adopted the name Midiman far before the company of the same name existed.

Perhaps some people here would like to volunteer to help develop new content?

paults

Hey,

I certainly remember your site.  I was right there with you, Cakewalk Pro Audio and all that :)

ecca

I had to shim the neck on my strat to get the GK3 in.
Surely it's a much simpler thing to do than hacking out the sctatchplate ?
It's a ten minute job.

aliensporebomb

Seriously?  I slapped the GK3 on and was up and running with no shimming or any of that nonsense.  It just worked.  Am I the exception to the rule?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

macman70

#19
My Blackmore strat is the following Spec for fingerboard radius, is this same thing as  184R That Roland refer to?
Will the GK3 fit ok? I have measured and it appears it will all fit ok...I think I have enough height from pickguard to strings to avoid the shimming as many have mentioned in this thread above.

Model Name: Ritchie Blackmore Stratocaster®
Model Number: 013-9010-(305)
Series: Artist Series
Body: Alder
Neck: Maple, "U" Shape,
(Gloss Polyurethane Finish)
Fingerboard: Graduated Scalloped Rosewood, 7.25" Radius (184 mm)

From GK3 Pickup instructions:

"Adjust the curvature. A regular ST model is 184R. If you turn the adjustment screw all the way to the right, the curvature will be 184R.
Caution: Artist "signature" models and newer ST model's curvatures may be different. "

Elantric

#20
A GK-3 Install on your Fender Blackmore strat should work - thats why the Radius adjust is there

But the biggest hurdle for mounting a GK-3 on most strat's is the necessary string clearance to mount the Gk-3 under the strings near the bridge.




75% of all Strats I know will require a Neck Shim to change the NEck to body angle and add more clearance for the the GK-3,

This doc shows how to Shim the Neck to add clearance near the Bridge :
http://www.fishman.com/software/tripleplay/help/tripleplay_tut10.pdf


Or perform major mods to hack the pickguard and carve out the wood to allow the Gk-3 PU to reside at a lower height - as done on the GC-1


Read this thread for a typical GK-3 internal install

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/index.php?threads/for-the-guitarists-musicians-amongst-us-my-roland-ready-strat-project.336468/





Hotmamaandme

Here is my solution to the GK3 not fitting and or hitting the strings due to low string/saddle height on a strat style with pic guard.

I bought a Carvin SH575 with midi and a GR55 love it and it set up easy and works. My Gr55 came with a GK3 pickup. I also have a (1993 bought new) American Stratocaster that has great low string height and plays awesome. I bought a second pick guard and plan on routing a 1mm +or- groove/slot to mount the pickup starting less and working my way to the 1mm to get the correct distance between the gk3 and the strings. I dont want to adjust my saddle height on my guitar its set up the way I want it. Pic and follow up to follow.
"For His Glory" Psalm 33 & 150

Hotmamaandme

"For His Glory" Psalm 33 & 150

Toby Krebs

Yes that is how I mount my older pickups on my strats.Right on to the pickguard itself.I dont want any movement/tape etc... when I am in the heat of battle. Taping these things on to your guitar is risky. I don't recommend it.

pasha811

The shop near home does some luthier jobs. He suggested me to get a new pickguard from Parts Planet or similar with only 1 ply instead of 3. Moving the Mag PU and Electronics there would require no soldering but very good skills and then the GK3 would fit nicely including double tape. My only concern was that less plastic = less isolation, even if the pickguard had an aluminium foil.
It costs less than 10 euro and you spare the original pickguard, just in case you want to sell your guitar in the future. However I preferred to go to GK2A instead and firmed it with 3M double tape (see above). It's a strong one, crossing fingers it is still in place after 3 years.

Best Regards
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/