Does anyone know if Roland has plans for a *follow up* to the VG-99?

Started by Radley, August 08, 2013, 08:58:37 PM

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Radley

Does anyone know if Roland has plans for a follow-up to the VG-99? I'm asking because I hear very little about the VG line these days, and I'm hoping they will not abandon the whole concept...

mockchoi

You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means...

Unless Roland is working on a time machine? :)

Radley


Kevin M

The answer is yes, no, maybe.  I think no one really knows for sure what Roland is going to do with the VG line.

GeePeeAxe

Well, the VGs have a birth rate:  ;)
1995 VG-8, 5 years later:
2000 VG-88, then 7 years later:
2007 VG-99, maybe 7 years later:
2014 ----> VG-????

ProgMystic

I have only scratched the surface of half of what the VG-99 can do so I'm happy for a while, but I must say if there was a version with sample based synth sounds along the lines of what I hear the guys with the GR-55s creating, I would probably risk divorce by letting my GAS take over again.  ;)
Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

montyrivers

Im going by the longevity of COSM effects and how much Roland can milk it for.  Other than releasing boxes with more features and a better A to D/D to A the actual amp models and effects have stayed the same since the GT 3/VG 8 era.  It's wishfull thinking but I'm hoping any new VG will coincide with more modern algorithms that make use of the processing power of more robust, readily available hardware.

mbenigni

Quote from: montyrivers on August 09, 2013, 05:03:55 AM
Im going by the longevity of COSM effects and how much Roland can milk it for.  Other than releasing boxes with more features and a better A to D/D to A the actual amp models and effects have stayed the same since the GT 3/VG 8 era.  It's wishfull thinking but I'm hoping any new VG will coincide with more modern algorithms that make use of the processing power of more robust, readily available hardware.
I don't think is actually true.  Although Roland has continued to use the name COSM all these years, I believe the specific algorithms that comprise the tones have been changing over time.  Not the best marketing strategy on Roland's part -maybe they should have appended version numbers or something - but I think COSM is just meant to describe their overall modeling paradigm.

montyrivers

Quote from: mbenigni on August 09, 2013, 05:38:19 AM
I don't think is actually true.  Although Roland has continued to use the name COSM all these years, I believe the specific algorithms that comprise the tones have been changing over time.  Not the best marketing strategy on Roland's part -maybe they should have appended version numbers or something - but I think COSM is just meant to describe their overall modeling paradigm.

I won't pretend to know anything for certain, but I like to build tones using my guitar's mag pickups.  I use my VG 99 at home and a GT 3 when I'm playing gigs.  When I A B the two of them (using cosm amp and effects models- COSM guitars and Poly effects not taken into account here) I am able to get the same sounds using more or less the same settings between both units.  The only difference between the two is headroom (the VG has 24 bit D to A, GT 3 has 20 bit since it's much older).  The GT 3 was released in the mid to late 90's while the VG99 was released roughly a decade later.  It surprised me how similar the COSM amp and effects sounded and behaved between the two. 

Elantric

Im with Monty
My first exposure to Roland Amp modeling was the 1989 Boss SE50, then I got a Roland VS880 Vstudio and that had bulk of the same COSM AMPS and FX as used in GT5 GT3 GT8 GT10 VG8 VG88 VG99 GR55 with its option fx daughter board DSP.

I see and hear refinement, and improved sonic clarity due to evolution from 18 bit Dacs to 24 bit dacs.
The VG99 has 2 DSPs so there are more available multiple fx and  routing  options.
But nothing really "new" in past 18 years.

Download all the owners manuals to all products listed above and discover the same amps and fx have been kicking around and shared across a wide product line. Even some Roland keyboards include these too.

Elantric

In regards to this threads title.
Read the post linked below.




www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6083.msg60465#msg60465

Elantric wrote on April 26, 2013
I just re-checked with my Roland Dealer
Its true the Roland VG-99 is now gone and only "new" units available are existing inventory.

Maybe Musicians Friend may have a Memorial Day 2013 blow out sale?

I suggest bookmark this and check daily
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/roland-vg-99-v-guitar-multi-effects-processor-system


When I asked will there be a new VG-100 this year?:
the response was

Quote" Not at this time Please remind the dealer that Roland has had a VG on the market since 1995 and that we are due for a new one..."

I figure 2014 we will see a replacement.
[/i]


and this says it all
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/roland-vg-99-v-guitar-multi-effects-processor-system
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

montyrivers

Quote from: Elantric on August 09, 2013, 07:06:42 AM
Even some Roland keyboards include these too.

COSM filter models sound AMAZING the way they're used with the V Synth.  :D

aliensporebomb

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

musicman65


mbenigni

QuoteI see and hear refinement, and improved sonic clarity due to evolution from 18 bit Dacs to 24 bit dacs.
The VG99 has 2 DSPs so there are more available multiple fx and  routing  options.
But nothing really "new" in past 18 years.

I'm really surprised to hear this.  I had a GT3 way back when and I remember thinking it sounded much more sterile than, for instance, the GR55 seems to me today.  Part of this may be psychological I guess, i.e. the assumption that there would have been improvements over all these years.  That, or I've just gotten better to listening to COSM output and tweaking it to taste.  Roland stuff doesn't generally sound as good "out of the box" as Line 6 and some other competitors.

So does this mean than any inexpensive product that's advertised as having Roland COSM amps and effects (e.g. a BR800, or a Cube 30X) is rocking the very same algorithms as a VG99 (for whatever models are included, of course)?  That kind of blows my mind...

aliensporebomb

 
Quote from: mbenigni on August 09, 2013, 06:45:33 PM
I'm really surprised to hear this.  I had a GT3 way back when and I remember thinking it sounded much more sterile than, for instance, the GR55 seems to me today.  Part of this may be psychological I guess, i.e. the assumption that there would have been improvements over all these years.  That, or I've just gotten better to listening to COSM output and tweaking it to taste.  Roland stuff doesn't generally sound as good "out of the box" as Line 6 and some other competitors.

So does this mean than any inexpensive product that's advertised as having Roland COSM amps and effects (e.g. a BR800, or a Cube 30X) is rocking the very same algorithms as a VG99 (for whatever models are included, of course)?  That kind of blows my mind...

But Bill Ruppert said about the VG-99:

Quote
I can sit in my studio creating patches and tweaking for 5 to 8 hours just working with the front panel. I will say this is by far the most exciting piece of equipment I have ever worked with.
I have never had so much fun.
I am a studio musician and am amazed at how I can use the tuning functions on sessions.
Just sound plain 'REAL"! The old VG- 88 would never pass.

The synth things have been and will now be even more of a money maker for me.
I feel like I should send Roland a royalty check :-) I am blown away.
(That said the presets are useless. What you dig and tweak for is where the gold is)

I agree 100%.  I suspect the algorithms are highly optimized over the years for each DSP processor they are ported to - VG-99 sounds a hell of a lot better than the COSM FX in the VS-840EX recorder I had back in the day.  The weak link on the 99 is the factory patches for the most part. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

gumtown

I still have an old GT-3 as well as the GT-100, (also have had the GT-5, GT-6B, GT-8, GT-10, GT-10B, BR-532, ME-25),
and also the BR-80 and GR-55.
My take on the COSM evolution is the latter sounds better than the earlier, after the GT-10 'wrong direction' things improved more.
The COSM alogrythms seem to be CPU size scalable, so a device with a more powerful processor seems to have more refined effect definition (less grainy).
The COSM evolution is progressing, but not at the same scale as other equipment, where Roland/Boss were leading the field once, they are now lagging, although if a VG-99 successor were to be based on the current GT-100 COSM, it would be a noticable (organic amp feel) improvement, where the VG-99 is based between the GT-8 and GT-10 vintage/flavor/era.

I hope that Roland can see, looking at the GR-55's sales, that a all-in-one unit will give greater value and generate better sales.
I am hoping the VG-100 or VG1010 will have guitar and bass modes, and atleast the GR-55 type PCM synths with the PCM sample memory being upgradable/programmable.
If the dual effects with the GT-100 based parallel chain type setup is included, that will give a parallel chain 4 ways, allowing 4 preamps at once and 4 x the same effect capability in parallel.
Perhaps some hardware options to have it desktop , rackmount, or floorboard pedal.
And if the GK 3 way switch is not being utilised anymore, redesign the GK-3 without the switch and put in an extra assignable knob.
I would buy one of those for sure..
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Litesnsirens

I had posted a question in the GR-55 section shortly after getting it wondering if the cosm had improved.  I had owned a GT-5 way back and although at the time it was really cool, it wasn't enough to keep me from wanting to go back to tube amps.  Somehow the tones I'm getting out of the GR-55 just sound so much more satisfying than I recall the GT-5 ever being.  I'm sure part of it could be that I'm playing it through better FRFRs, but I don't think that could be all of it.

As far as a new version of the VG-99, I've been toying with the idea of getting one but I didn't want to get one only to have a new version come out a week later. Luckily I'm loving the GR-55, so I'll wait it out and see what they bring.


Toby Krebs

I had a GT-3 (stolen at a casino  after 6 months of programming.Man I loved it!)-GT5- pretty darn good. I currently own a ME-25( not in the same class but in front of a good tube amp excellent) and a GT-10( amazing quality of amp tones and effects) and 2 GR55s'. IMHO the GR55s are quite a bit better than all of these older units. I spent two hours in the garage tonite testing my pin7 mod on one of my GR55s' and using it with a very good small all tube amp. Hard to tell the difference between them when using a nice lead tone. The GR55 is nipping at the heals of the tube amp these days but I like them together. Gives a marvelous spread of dual guitar tonalities. With this new mod I may be using a small tube amp at my gigs with the GR55!

ericar123

In my opinion Roland should first of all come up with a replacement for the divided pickup. This should be digital and noiseless by now
before going into something like the VG99. Most of my grief is with noise in my distorted patches and I hate using noise gates. There has to be a better way. Also it would stop the noise made when the 13 pin cord moves around. As far as the VG goes, I have had one from the start and am still impressed with what it can do.

montyrivers

Quote from: ericar123 on August 15, 2013, 11:04:44 AM
In my opinion Roland should first of all come up with a replacement for the divided pickup. This should be digital and noiseless by now
before going into something like the VG99. Most of my grief is with noise in my distorted patches and I hate using noise gates. There has to be a better way. Also it would stop the noise made when the 13 pin cord moves around. As far as the VG goes, I have had one from the start and am still impressed with what it can do.

The Triple Play is a game changer in this regard.  There are a lot of technical hurdles that have to be dealt with though.  It's not enough that Roland make a pitch to midi pickup, they need a unit that sends out individual string signals already converted from an analog signal into packets.  The problem here is that they need to figure out how to do that without compressing the signal.  The GK3 has a lot of variables in how it is maintained and installed but it is still the best, most direct way for each string's signal to reach the main unit.  Also I don't have noise issues with the pickup itself, only when the 13 pind cable is damaged or the contacts become oxidized.

Elantric

People keep reading this old thread

Just to bring folks up to date on the lineage of GK 13 COSM guitar Processors.



2007 VG-99

2011 GR-55

2014 GP-10

The COSM Modeling improves with each recent release.

Edit Oct 2015 - still no word of any new Roland/ Boss GK13 processors. The Antares ATG-1 is worth looking at, its supposed to have new features to be announced at 2016 Winter NAMM.