IK Multimedia Stealth Pedals - other owners/ opinions?

[mbenigni]

Hi all,

Wishing now that I'd started this thread about a week ago.  I decided I needed a Stealth Pedal to help out with audio conversion and simple MIDI control over one USB port.  Much ado: ordered one on Amazon and received a Stealth Plug instead; returned it and ordered another and received another Stealth Plug.  Found one online at a Guitar Center, called for price, and they said $50 (!) - they actually had the Stealth Plug in stock.  Sigh.

So I finally found an actual Stealth Pedal at a dealer in NYC and had it shipped - very exciting until... It arrived and I was less than impressed.  It's a great design, but if this unit is any indication, it's a design in need of better execution.  For one thing, the drivers seem a little "off" - out of date for one thing, with a finicky setup interface and more overall latency than I expected.  (NI Audio Kontrol bests it by about 10 ms.)

But drivers are always a crap shoot.  What really put me off, right out of the box, is that the treadle feels sort of "bumpy" for lack of a better word, as if there is a bad potentiometer in there, or the gears are slightly misaligned or something.  It doesn't go heel to toe smoothly, but instead has a subtle "ratcheting" feel to it.  So before I decide whether to send it back for a refund, or try try again with a replacement, or maybe just accept its flaws and keep it, I need to know whether this is common to the design, or whether I got a defective unit.

Does anyone else own/use one, and what have your experiences been compared to my own?  Is the pedal itself just a bit trashy in mechanical terms, or did someone drop mine at the warehouse or something?

I sometimes wonder why I torture myself by buying things...

[Elantric]

Re Stealth Pedal - I have tried these at NAMM, after 15 seconds I knew I had to look elsewhere. (Due to the Clunky Crybaby Wah-wah clone gear action)

Its a shame the IK Multimedia "Stomp I|O " was such a dog when it was finally released, then shelved 5 months later. I saw it at 3 NAMM shows before it ever shipped, but it tripled in cost, and the drivers were complete junk.

I'm always suspect of any IK MultiMedia Hardware since.
Edit - 2013, they now have great 24bit IOS / iPad Audio Interface - iRig HD and iRig Pro highly recommended!

[mbenigni]

IK Multimedia is a bit suspect, I agree.  They seem more of an iPad accessory company then a serious music equipment manufacturer.  I grew wary the minute I started seeing their products in Best Buy next to the ear buds etc.

It really is a shame though, because the features and form factor of the Stealth Pedal make such good sense I'm amazed there isn't a competing product like it.  One pedal, one switch, guitar in and MIDI/Audio out over USB, a 1/4" jack for additional pedals as needed.  Done.  Brilliant.  Except it has to not suck.   

Back to the drawing board.  Time to read the return policy...

[photonutalan1]

Uhhh...I hate to say it, but mine seems to work smoothly and functions just fine, as advertised. I'm happy.

[Elantric]

How is the latency?
What OS and Apps are you using with it?

[photonutalan1]

MacBook Pro 2.66GHz Intel Core i7, OS X 10.8.2 , 8 GB Memory. Using Garageband and Amplitube on latest iPad Retina and iPhone 5. I don't know how to measure latency empirically, but it's certainly little enough as to work fine for me.

Oh, and Cubase 6 (just started, new to me.)

[photonutalan1]

Oops! iOS 6.1.2.

[mbenigni]

Uhhh...I hate to say it, but mine seems to work smoothly and functions just fine, as advertised. I'm happy.

Please don't "hate to say it"... this is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.  I'm trying to determine whether these pedals are crap across the board, or whether I just got a defective unit.  They're impossible to find locally (not exactly easy to find online for that matter) and I'm hesitant to ask for a replacement if it's going to arrive and perform similarly.

So... your pedal sweeps toe to heel smoothly and quietly?  It doesn't have that "ratchety" feel/sound I described above?

As for latency and drivers, unfortunately it's probably apples to oranges, as IK Multimedia is way behind on providing updated drivers for Windows 8.  (Their website features Vista drivers as if they're a novelty.)  So that's the other angle I have to consider, whether the elegance of the Stealth Pedal form factor is the worth the possibility of increased latency/CPU load/instability.  My alternative is to go back to the Audio Kontrol and a Line 6 FB-V MkII with a USB hub, hope for the best re: current draw (so far so good) and maybe think about building a custom enclosure for the whole deal.

To think I gravitated to the Stealth Pedal because it looked "simple" and now I've spent a week packing and unpacking UPS boxes instead of practicing.  Ah, the life of a modern guitarist. 

[Elantric]

My alternative is to go back to the Audio Kontrol and a Line 6 FB-V MkII with a USB hub,

There are far more options.

All of these devices below have USB Class Compliant Audio I/O, Guitar Input, Expression Pedal That can be mapped to MIDI CC#7, work with iPads + USB Camera Adapter (+USB Powered Hub) and have low latency ASIO drivers, and do far more than the Stealth Pedal , and some not much bigger floor real estate.


and do various modes of MIDI CC# control - after you dive into their specs
Fender Mustang Floor

ZoomA2.1U
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/a21u/

Zoom G2.1U
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/g21u/

Zoom G2.1Nu
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/g2nu/

Zoom G3 / G3X
http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/g3

Zoom G5
http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/g5

Digitech RP;s
http://www.digitech.com/en-US/rp-to-ipad
Korg PX5D  -( has a footpedal input)

Novation X-Station 25
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep04/articles/xstation25.htm



If no iPad use required - add the Line 6 devices

I find the POD HD-500 + a second expression pedal has all the right mix of controls I require on the floor.

People forget all the above can be used for NI Guitar Rig or IK Amplitube  - by using an array of Clean patches.

[mbenigni]

Thee are far more options.

Yes, of course... it's just that the Audio Kontrol and FBV are already paid for, in hand, tried and true.  The only real "problem" is that it's two devices instead of one (vs. one USB port on the target machine, and my neurotic intolerance for cables, etc.)

I'll check out your suggestions, though - thanks.  Anything that requires AC power is immediately off the table.

EDIT:  yes, having looked at these quickly, I can see where the Zoom pedals might work, and offer better value.  I prefer something bus-powered, but battery powered would suffice.  The only outstanding variable is availability/quality of Win8 drivers, and particularly where USB 3.0 is concerned.  It's discouraging how much of this comes down to blind trial and error...

[Elantric]

The only outstanding variable is availability/quality of Win8 drivers, and particularly where USB 3.0 is concerned.  It's discouraging how much of this comes down to blind trial and error...

Still today (March 2013)  - bulk of USB Audio Interface Vendors DO NOT recommend USB 3.0

If you look some new Laptops still have remaining high current "legacy" USB 2.0 port. (like my Lenovo W520)   
The Windows Laptop manufacturers often market this port as an Iphone  / iPad Charge port (with a Yellow USB Host connector)  - but the main purpose I use this USB 2.0 port for is my critical USB Low Latency / pop & Noise free Audio Port.

Yes Ive tried my Win PC's USB 3.0 ports, and yes they all have problems with Audio clicks / noise - reminds me back in 1996 and trying to put together a working Windows 95 DAW. (lots of lost productivity)

Windows PCs that actually work well as Real Time Audio workstations are rare,  and it remains a high risk endeavor.

If your Windows DAW system is working, and you did zero research  - you are very lucky.

Myself, I'm a knowledge  / google junkie  - try as a might, there is always  something new, but I do only recommend things that I have real world experience with.

Pursuing arcane goals can easily equate to many lost days / weeks / years.

I use many systems, but I have to inform my Apple Audio workstations "just work", and do it very well - so I have no other excuses other than to actually find time in my schedule to actually create music.
(My 2012 MacBook Pro Retina with only 2 USB 3.0 ports works flawlessly!)
As artists/ musicians, each of us must manage our internal operating modes, and the sooner I can get into my "Right Brain" mode, and stay there in my creative spontaneity zone without worrying about technical distractions  - the more productive I am musically.
http://www.funderstanding.com/brain/right-brain-vs-left-brain/ 


   

[mbenigni]

bulk of USB Audio Interface Vendors DO NOT recommend USB 3.0

Yes, and this is another argument for sticking with the Audio Kontrol rather than wading out into a pool of unknown drivers.  NI is one of few vendors who've actually specifically addressed USB 3 concerns in their recent drivers.  Ironic since for a long time (Vista/Win7 transition) I couldn't find decent support for the AK at all.

I realize now that I was being very optimistic in blindly ordering the Stealth and thinking the drivers would perform.  And I've been doing this for eons; I should know better.   

reminds me back in 1996 and trying to put together a working Windows 95 DAW. (lots of lost productivity)

Oh god, I just got a chill.  Windows has never been easy, but those years between Windows 3 (a DOS shell, basically) and XP were like the dark ages.

Pursuing arcane goals can easily equate to many lost days / weeks / years.

You said a mouthful.  It's going on decades for me.  My right brain hates my left brain LOL.

[photonutalan1]

Great advice (as always), Elantric, and most helpful to me also. Thanks!
Mbenigni, yes my Stealth pedal works very smoothly heel to toe with no "ratchety" feeling at all. It seems very solid and works just as it's supposed to.

[mbenigni]

Thanks, photonutalan.  I've decided to just get a refund after all.  The vendor doesn't have another one in stock anyway (they seem to be out everywhere, with new units coming at the end of the month) and I've gotten a little bit spooked about the whole driver support situation.  I'm on a Win8 machine with USB 3 only, so I'm kind of hanging on the bleeding edge here.  As usual...

[Elantric]

What really put me off, right out of the box, is that the treadle feels sort of "bumpy" for lack of a better word, as if there is a bad potentiometer in there, or the gears are slightly misaligned or something.  It doesn't go heel to toe smoothly, but instead has a subtle "ratcheting" feel to it.

It might be as simple as adjusting the internal Rack Gear adjuster

IK Multimedia Stealth Pedal internally is mechanically based upon the 45 year old Vox Clyde McCoy Wah-Wah pedal design - just with an added  large USB Audio I/O PC Board.


But there is wide variability in the "feel" dependent on the internal adjustable Rack Gear Tension Adjustment.
http://www.squidoo.com/wah-pedal-repair

[mbenigni]

Thanks, Elantric.  I opened it up and took a look and nothing was readily apparent as far as getting that gear to roll more smoothly.  You basically hear and feel each of the gears turn over as the pedal moves, and because the box itself is pretty resonant, it's surprisingly distracting.

I did notice that IK Multimedia includes a hex wrench in the box, but alas no instructions.  I found the one bolt that fit that wrench and gave it a couple of turns in each direction, but it didn't seem to have any effect.  And at this point I can't risk breaking the thing, of course.

[aliensporebomb]

Re Stealth Pedal - I have tried these at NAMM, after 15 seconds I knew I had to look elsewhere. (Due to the Clunky Crybaby Wah-wah clone gear action)

Its a shame the IK Multimedia "Stomp I|O " was such a dog when it was finally released, then shelved 5 months later. I saw it at 3 NAMM shows before it ever shipped, but it tripled in cost, and the drivers were complete junk.

I'm always suspect of any IK MultiMedia Hardware since.

When I first saw that pedalboard I was hoping it was kind of a Super VG system but the price was "Super VG" range too.  Glad I held off in a way.  I do have the little input for my iphone so I can use it as a tuner/modeler.

[mbenigni]

Plan B.

[mbenigni]

Well, actually, Plan B kind of fell apart as well.  Turns out the Surface Pro's one USB3.0 port wasn't as stable with a passive USB hub and the hardware pictured as I'd hoped it would be.   I probably could have run the hub with an AC adapter, but I'd been trying to avoid that requirement from the beginning.

Plan C - using a MIDI Moose into the AK1's MIDI IN - also fell apart, since the MIDI Moose is useless for anything other than PC messages, and Ableton is surprisingly restricted in terms of how it will respond to PC messages.

Plan D is in the works.  I had an old Digitech Control 8 in the basement, which I never liked because it requires an AC adapter, and it won't send momentary CC messages.  (Only toggle.  I'm always amazed at the vast permutations of ways for MIDI to not work.  It's the work of an evil genius, or possibly an entire consortium of evil geniuses.)  But I discovered over the weekend that it will run with a simple 9V battery, so I mounted one inside with velcro.  If I can get around the toggle vs. momentary problem on the software side, I'll be good to go.  Otherwise, I might have to integrate an Event Processor or similar means of filtering incoming CC messages.

I swear I went through all of this 2 years ago...  And two years before that...  And...

[Elantric]

I had an old Digitech Control 8

Re Digitech MIDi Pedal boards, for many years the 1996 era Digitech PMC-10 was the ruler of pedal boards, even the Japanese MIDI Guitar masters all used to use the PMC-10 as the pedal board of choice.


ftp://ftp.digitech.com/pub/pdfs/Discontinued/Manuals/PMC10.pdf

as you could make it send ANY type MIDI message stream. There is even a third party editor.
http://www.creepingfog.com/sean/pmc/raymond.htm

Worth looking on ebay for a used one
   



http://www.nosuch.biz/pmc10/parallel/

[mbenigni]

Thanks, Steve, I will keep my eyes open for a PMC10 if the price is right.  You wouldn't happen to know whether a PMC10 will (or can be modified to) run on battery power, would you?

[Elantric]

You wouldn't happen to know whether a PMC10 will (or can be modified to) run on battery power, would you?

Where there is a will there is a way.


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10968.msg85000#msg85000

[mbenigni]

http://us.sanyo.com/Pedal-Juice

That is a slick product!  I wish I had one on my last traditional pedal board (most of which I sold off to fund my KPA.)

Right now I'm thinking more along the price/form factor lines of a 9V battery, wire cutters, and electrical tape but thanks for the heads up anyway.  I could definitely see wanting a Pedal Juice at some point in the future.

[mbenigni]

So I got the Toggle vs. Momentary thing worked out in software, but it's pretty clunky.  I have to run Bomes MIDI Translator to translate all relevant CC on and off messages to a sequence of both on and off, and also run LoopBe so I have a virtual MIDI port with which to route the altered MIDI stream to Ableton Live.  It's a lot of worryingly old code running in the background.  It's also the EXACT same thing I arrived at after wrestling with the problem years ago.  I was hoping to have something more elegant by now.

I'm amazed that version *8* of Abelton, as in version 1, followed by an improved version 2, followed by... you get the idea... still doesn't have a robust means of filtering/translating incoming CC messages built in (excluding, possibly, Max4Live, which I don't own.)  This sort of thing is closely related to Ableton's entire raison d'être.  Does anyone know if v9 is improved in any way?

[Elantric]

See this thread for traditional methods for Guitarists to control Ableton Live
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8272.msg58948#msg58948