GR-33 -FYI- Roland's instructions to MIDI link GR33 to GR55 or anything else....

Started by Fusion, December 13, 2014, 08:32:20 AM

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CodeSmart

Also GKPX-14 is fine for GR-55 + GR-33 (+ two more) and cheaper than US-20: https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=12045.0

The thing I dislike when using GR-33 and GR-55 together is that the output volume of the GR-33 is so much lower than the GR-55. Have to crank up the GR-33 vol knob at max and very little volume on the GR-55.

Is there some unfound setting to increase the GR-33 gain?

I'm connecting the GR-55 to the stereo inputs of GR-33 and GR-33 outputs to PA.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Fusion

I noticed that the new GK3 verses the GK2 I had used on the GR-33 was quite a bit lower in volume. Is the GK3 a less hot pickup?
Overall the quality between the two units is so glaring I am looking to sell my GR-33. Just no comparison. Also developing a love for some of the COSM stuff may have to end up getting a GP-10 in time.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Fusion

Personally, after wanting to try to MIDI to the GR-55, I found the GR-33 to be too much lower in quality to the GR-55 to bother with. It was not as good as I had remembered after bringing it out of mothballs. Seems the newer GK3 pickup seems to be lower in volume on the GR-33.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

CodeSmart

Quote from: Fusion on December 22, 2014, 12:35:39 AM
Seems the newer GK3 pickup seems to be lower in volume on the GR-33.

I wasn't referring to the input signal. I meant that the stereo PCM output volume from GR-33 is so much lower than from GR-55.
And yes GR-55 sounds much better however there are a few patches in the GR-33, not found in GR-55 that are cool to have.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

pedwards2932

I noticed the volume difference between 30 and the 55 as well.....I was able to balance the 2 using the trims on my mixer.  I also found that the sounds weren't as great as I remembered on the 30 but that one sax sound still sounds pretty good just not sure it is worth the hassle of setting it up.  The patch I made with the baritone sax is pretty close and in the lower registers it actually sounds better on the 55.

maan108

Quote from: Elantric on December 21, 2014, 04:17:09 PM
Just a FYI, this will exhibit delayed triggering of the GR-33, (due to the Guitar to MIDI latency of GR-55) compared to using a Roland US-20 GK13 pin A/B/Y Selector, which allows the GR-33 to be driven directly by your 13 pin guitar. ( =Lower latency)


Hallo !
I have done a little raw test to evaluate latency added linking GR55 midi out to GR33 midi in. For my needs it seem to be acceptable.
Here a sound example  (pls dont comment sound, tracking and more , it's just a raw test for laytency !!)
Sound: on one ch a percussive sound (first drum , second a scat voice) from GR33 driven by GR55 midi out (piano) on other channel
Picture: evaluable delta latency beetween the two channel : up GR55 , down GR33.

shawnb

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

QuoteExcellent!   Thanks for sharing!   3ms isn't bad at all.

and ( I might add) rather hard to believe, since this is 1/10th the known GR-55 Guitar to MIDI latency:

http://www.joness.com/gr300/MIDI_SPEED.htm

Last column on the far right is GR-55 Guitar to MIDI latency in milliseconds


shawnb

This is not another round of pitch-to-note, though.

This is using the GR-33 as a sound module, using the GR-55's midi out.    The GR-55's pitch -to-note time is not reflected here, and the GR-33 doesn't need to do pitch detection.   If the raw mag pu signal were reflected here, it would precede the Gr-55's measurement by something similar to Dr Jones's chart.

All it's really showing is that you don't lose much by feeding the GR-55's midi out to the GR-33's midi in.   

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

QuoteThis is using the GR-33 as a sound module, using the GR-55's midi out.

But this setup configuration still relies on the GR-55 to perform "Guitar to MIDI" and that takes 19 milliseconds average.

There no  free lunch

shawnb

Quote from: Elantric on December 31, 2014, 03:46:57 PM
But this setup configuration still relies on the GR-55 to perform "Guitar to MIDI" and that takes 19 milliseconds average.

There no  free lunch

Understood.   

The post wasn't meant to say you get guitar-to-midi at 3ms.   The post was meant to show that you can get both GR-33 & GR-55 at just an additional 3ms, without the use of a US-20, by daisy-chaining the MIDI.   

Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Elantric

QuoteThe post was meant to show that you can get both GR-33 & GR-55 at just an additional 3ms, without the use of a US-20, by daisy-chaining the MIDI

Understood  - just pointing this out to newbies who might misinterpret the posted results, and tell others:

" I read on VGuitarforums that I can play guitar with 13 pin cable into the GR-55 and then can drive the GR-33 via MIDI with only 3 milliseconds total latency!"


Fusion

Any notice when you play the older models with the newer GK3 you have to crank up the sensitivity and levels? Apparently the GK3 has lower output than the GK2s.
Wondering as I get confused on some of the older Roland's. Is the GR30 just like the GR33 but it has an expression pedal? I had another model and I cannot seem to find a pic of it or remember the model number. It was a black larger unit as I remember sometime before the GR30. I was messing with the GR30 today upping the sensitivity and levels, had some interesting tones I had made but really I think the 55 is so much more. Not sure it is worth the issue to MIDI or US20 it.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

admin

QuoteAny notice when you play the older models with the newer GK3 you have to crank up the sensitivity and levels? Apparently the GK3 has lower output than the GK2s.

Correct - the GK-3 has a lower output.

The GK-2A has a higher output, and explains  why most Piezo GK systems have a "hot" output too - as the gain and output sensitivity for most Piezo systems were based upon the GK-2A output level.

Quoteondering as I get confused on some of the older Roland's. Is the GR30 just like the GR33 but it has an expression pedal? I had another model and I cannot seem to find a pic of it or remember
Each GR model is unique

The closest two are the 1994 GR-09
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_articles/may94/rolandgr09.html
http://www.suonoelettronico.com/articolo_dettaglio.asp?categoria=guide&titolo=ROLAND%20GR-09%20GUITAR%20SYNTH%20QUICK%20GUIDE%20-%20MANUAL


and 1996 GR-30
http://www.suonoelettronico.com/articolo_dettaglio.asp?categoria=Guide&titolo=Roland%20GR-30%20Guitar%20Synthesizer%20Quick%20Guide%20Manual




Many here acknowledge the GR-30 still has the fastest Guitar to MIDI among Roland GR units 

We have a forum area for GR-20, GR-30, GR-33 here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php#c27



and
Yahoo GR-30 group here
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/GR-30/

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-130/1880075-
Quote
So far I'm really digging it. Tracks way better than my GI-20 into Mac setup did, so I am quite pleased in that regard. The stock presets positively blow, but that's no different than when you buy any other Roland/Boss, Digitech, or Line6 unit. You've got to start from scratch and tweak.

I'm just really blown away by the difference in tracking accuracy and speed though, compared to the GI-20. I spent over a year tweaking the 20, actually more adjustments than actual playing, and never got what I wanted out of it. The GR30 is more satisfying already, after only an hour.

Its for all these reasons why Robert Fripp occasionally uses his GR-30 today.

and Reeves Gabrels toured the world with David Bowie 1997-1998 with a GR-30.and VG-8

Fusion

The 33 was my first experience with a good sounding and reasonable tracking guitar synth but after really getting into the GR55 I find I just do not need to use it.
It does have some nice violin and sax tones but the tracking and fidelity is no where close to the 55. 
There is so much to the programming and tweaking ability of the 55 it really is light years ahead. The more I work with it the more things I discover it can do that are probably largely overlooked by many users. I am puzzled at times that it does not get more accolades.
I often find some complaints merely a matter of a deeper level of tweaking on the voices.
I also have gone back and taken another look at some of the factory presets to see what I can adapt.
Wonderful machine and tool. Makes me want to speed up on my recording gear. I have not messed much with recording in some time and I think I have found some ways to get around the money pit of too high end gear costs. Seems like those large Tascam multi trackers can be used to simplify matters. I am not really interested in the full blown PC DAW thing. I like having extant units more than virtual. I also like using speaker line DI taps, not doing a major release just enough to have some fun and maybe be able to upload some sample sounds.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

maan108

Quote from: shawnb on December 31, 2014, 06:10:38 PM
Understood.   

......... without the use of a US-20, by daisy-chaining the MIDI.
!)

Thanks Shawnb !

You have correclty read the scope of my post !
I made the test to see if using midi instead of US20 we can have a lot of drawback but not extra
latency.
My scope was also to take the benefit from better GR55 tracking  than GR33. Using US20 you can get a different tracking by the two unit.

My delay in discussion was dued to the specific date ....however ...Happy new year to all of you !)

Maan108