JamOrigin - MIDI Guitar = Polyphonic Guitar to MIDI Software

Started by Charles5150, December 15, 2012, 05:18:42 AM

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gumtown

MIDI BASS beta version is now out too.

Quote
MIDI Bass 0.1 BETA is now available and its free for all MIDI Guitar customers.

MIDI Bass 0.1 BETA is the very first bass version of Jam Origin's audio tracking technology.

Being the first BETA version it has some limitations and issues. Most importantly it only tracks monophonic playing currently. It produce quite a few spurious hits and also has a high CPU usage. On the positive side latency should be quite good in the low end in particular.

We will use the next 5-10 months to improve the tracking and harvest experiences on a broader range of bass guitars and -players. During that time we will push out incremental updates to MIDI Bass, alongside MIDI Guitar updates. We can't really make bold claims about the future potential of the bass version yet - only that we will spend a substantial amount of time and investments in this research.

We are of course curious to hear about your experience with MIDI Bass, so please don't hesitate to report your findings by replying to this email.

Free licenses:

We are very thankful to all of You who have already supported us during the developments of MIDI Guitar. In return we have upgraded any license purchased for MIDI Guitar to also apply to MIDI Bass. In other words, you can use the same license file to activate MIDI Bass.

For everybody else, we are thankful for the interest and offer the same dual license deal until Jan 1st. 2014. Please consider to support our developments by purchasing the license here:
http://sites.fastspring.com/jamorigin/product/midi-guitar

Download MIDI Bass:
MIDI Bass 0.1.0 BETA for Windows

MIDI Bass 0.1.0 BETA for Mac

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Kenmac

Quote from: gumtown on December 10, 2013, 12:25:08 PM
MIDI BASS beta version is now out too.

Yes I was going to post about this yesterday but I've been busy. I do have a 1985 era Cort bass that I use from time to time and I was testing out MIDI Bass with it last night and the tracking isn't bad but obviously since this is the initial beta they'll be working on it and improving it. I also found you don't get that annoying pop up window after a minute if you're using VST bass amps or other effects. What are your thoughts on it Gumtown?
"Let them brush your rock and roll hair."

Elantric

MIDI Guitar 1.0 is now available.

Throughout the last year MIDI Guitar have matured through extensive BETA testing. Since the latest versions have been stable for most in terms of compatibility and as more customers have expressed the need to use MIDI Guitar in production environments, we found it a good occasion to release version 1.0.

Version 1.0 adds nothing new really, if you are already using 0.9.7 BETA, but we have been working hard for new tracking improvements for a few months already and this pursuit will continue in updates and 1.x versions.

We are very thankful to everyone who supported us and are happy to announce that MIDI Bass is under development and free to everybody who purchased MIDI Guitar before 1. Jan. 2014 - simply use the same license file.

More info on MIDI Guitar and downloads:
http://jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar

fuzzfactory


Kenmac

I ended up buying it. Not a bad deal as you get the MIDI Bass software thrown in for the same price. Hopefully they'll fix the issues with the MIDI Bass plugin using more CPU than the MIDI Guitar plugin but then again it's still a very early version.
"Let them brush your rock and roll hair."

Brak(E)man

Is there anyone but me who's trying to get the best result from Jam Origin MG with a nylon acoustic ?
(in my case a fretless ditto )
I have a transducer piezo (shadow I believe)
mounted inside the body
about 2 inches towards the side
from the bridge down

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

PD FX

Yes, I've tried it.
Transducers from the non-under-the-saddle-type deliver more resonances of the top wood, and therefore will give more errors with Midi Guitar, which is made for a dry signal without resonances.
You can try to hide the resonances with the sensitivity per note or an equalizer, but an under saddle piezo will do better, and normal electric guitar will perform best, there's not much you can change about that.


Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 16, 2014, 12:43:07 AM
Is there anyone but me who's trying to get the best result from Jam Origin MG with a nylon acoustic ?
(in my case a fretless ditto )
I have a transducer piezo (shadow I believe)
mounted inside the body
about 2 inches towards the side
from the bridge down

Brak(E)man

thanx for that answer,
I'll try my old steel-stringed ovation
with an under the bridge piezo and see if there's a big difference, it's not fretless though
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

cooltouch

A couple of comments:


I also play a lot of nylon string, but I've never tried using mine with MG. Have you tried using a mic by any chance? That is my preferred method for getting a nylon string's sound into my DAW. Also, I'm pretty sure that MG will be able to detect discrete notes only. IOW, a quarter tone or gliss, possible with a fretless instrument, will most likely not be recorded as such. It may well be that any inaccuracy in finger placement will result in no note being played.
Best,
Michael

cooltouch

Just to add to the above. I got to thinking about MidiGuitar and it's been a while since I've dinked around on it. So I don't happen to recall if it supports string bends. If it does, then never mind what I said about it supporting only scale tones only.


Best,
Michael

gfmoore

I've had a play with this using windows 8.1, but I don't know much about midi, daws etc

Using a phono to usb cable I bought some time ago means I can get the thing working, but the latency is poor. (The cable seems to be essentially a soundcard, though why does it have an output!)

I suspect the default windows sound system - windows audio - is to blame, indeed the exclamation mark next to this says so. DirectSound? (Can't get that to work.) 

So, since I don't have a proper DAW: Cubase, Reaper whatever, (I have mucked around briefly with Mulab some time ago.), what should I do?

I suspect I'll be told to spend some money :(

Also I'm using 64 bit, can anyone suggest a (free) vst guitar plugin I can try, or indeed suggest many things I could try?

I suspect again, I'll be told to spend some money!

Anyway I can see the potential of this, but since I have a GR-55 which produces midi out as well (through some midi to usb cable I bought) do I really need to bother with Midi Guitar?


Ta.


cooltouch

Since you're on a tight budget, you might want to give the apps on this list a closer look. They're all supposedly DAWs, and they're all free:

http://www.looperman.com/forum/thread/135115

I don't have any experience with any of them, so there are none that I can recommend. I have used Audacity a fair amount, but its an audio editor, it doesn't support MIDI.

If you have enough room in your budget to consider buying some software, I would highly recommend Band in a Box, by PG Music. They've just released the 2014 version and have a special package they're offering right now, so even their most basic distribution has lots of add-ons. You can buy the basic package direct from PG for $129. Considering all the stuff PGM includes for that price, it's a helluva deal.  BiaB isn't really DAW software, but included in the price is a separate product, called Real Band, which is intended to be used in a DAW environment.

I've been a BiaB user for the past 15 years or so and I've used it with my DAW, as well as a stand-alone package. It works great as accompaniment software if you just feel like having what amounts to very good karaoke tracks that you can play along with -- or sing, if you want. To me, that's where it has always shined. Having a band that will play along with whatever tune it is I'm working on, without having all the hassles of dealing with an actual band of players. But as a music composer, I've found its capabilities to be very useful also. Consider: if you're like most songwriters, and you want others to play your song along with you, what do you do? If you're at all halfway organized, you'll have a set of charts that you can hand out. And these charts most likely will just be a chord progression, typically just a series of chord symbols, set to a melody, which may or may not have words associated with the melody.  And then you depend upon the individual band members' musicianship to add musicality to the charts.  Well, this is where BiaB shines. You can assign styles to your music -- many to choose from, quite a few of which will be included even with the cheapest options, but many more that are avaiable for an additional charge. A given "style" supplies the band pieces, typically keyboards, guitar, bass, and drums, and the styles in which these band pieces are played. You can add parts to the style too. Say you want a horn section. No problem, just a couple of mouse clicks and you've added horns to your composition. A nice thing about the BiaB interface is it is very easy to chart out a melody, and even easier to chart out a chord progression. And of course, it's meant to combine the two, so no worries there.

As a composer, what I often do is set up my chord progression in BiaB, select a style that is closest to what I want, and then generate the tune. Then I'll export this to a MIDI file, and import the MIDI file into my DAW software package, and do any final additions, tweaks, and mixdowns there. It has been a tremendous time saver in that respect. I end up not having to write drum lines and usually I can leave alone the keyboard, bass, and other parts except for some minor tweaks. Some purists will sniff and turn up their noses over this sort of composing, claiming it isn't really composition if I haven't scored out every single note and beat. To those people my typical retort is, "You've never played in a band, have you?" And they haven't, of course.

Here's a link to their current prices and the features that each version comes with:

http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.packages.htm

As for free plugins, go here and visit the "free plug-ins" area:

http://www.pluginboutique.com/free

By the way, BiaB supports a variety of plug-ins. IK Multimedia has a free Amplitube app for iOS devices. They also offer a pretty cool guitar plug-in for Windows, but I don't think it's free.

As for your GR-55 vs. MIDI Guitar, my response would be, why bother with MG when you already own one of the best audio-to-digitar converters for guitar in existence? I own the older GR-33, and I've dinked around with MIDI Guitar, but it isn't even close to having the same level of functionality that I have with my GR-33.

Best,
Michael

Elantric


gfmoore

Thanks for the suggestions, but what about the Midi Guitar selection for Device Type? What is it asking for and does Reaper help me with this? I suspect it wants some kind of audio interface driver?

And you are right, why am I bothering since I have a gr55 - don't know really, just wanted to see what's what :)

Elantric

You are going to need to an audio interface

Realize the GR-55 you already own is one

Be sure the Roland GR-55 USB Driver is installed  - connect a guitar  - edit a User patch on the GR-55 to enable  / activate the normal guitar PU audio signal path and connect GR-55 with USB to your Windows PC - launch   JamOrigin Midi Guitar and select "GR-55" as the Audio Interface Device type.

Learn about MIDI and DAWS here

www.tweakheadz.com
http://tweakheadz.com/the-noobs-and-beginners-guide-to-the-home-and-project-music-studio/

gfmoore

Ahhh of course.   doh!

Anyhows, I managed to set up a trial copy of reaper (seeing how you'd recommended that in some thread I read weeks ago?) , figured out how to install the Minimogue VST (which wouldn't load into Midi Guitar? as won't many things?) Got that to work with the virtual keyboard. Then I installed a trial of ipMidi (midi over ethernet). and somehow after much trickery and waving of hands managed to get reaper and midi guitar to communicate and now in semi synth heaven.

The latency is a bit more than what I can see on the videos. i tried some ASIO drivers with Midi Guitar - the Fender one and the dreaded asio4all, but they crashed my laptop immediately when I selected them.

So will have a go next week when I get time with the gr-55.

And I need a sit down as this stuff is doing my head in, and I began programming with Fortran IV on an IBM mainframe a million years ago so you'd think my head would take it - oh no, not at all siree. Age may have something to do with it :)

Brak(E)man

#141
Quote from: cooltouch on February 20, 2014, 01:59:18 AM
Just to add to the above. I got to thinking about MidiGuitar and it's been a while since I've dinked around on it. So I don't happen to recall if it supports string bends. If it does, then never mind what I said about it supporting only scale tones only.
Quote from: cooltouch on February 19, 2014, 07:50:27 AM
A couple of comments:


I also play a lot of nylon string, but I've never tried using mine with MG. Have you tried using a mic by any chance? That is my preferred method for getting a nylon string's sound into my DAW. Also, I'm pretty sure that MG will be able to detect discrete notes only. IOW, a quarter tone or gliss, possible with a fretless instrument, will most likely not be recorded as such. It may well be that any inaccuracy in finger placement will result in no note being played.
I use the transducer 'cause it's easy but also sounds and records as a condenser (well almost)
you can hear it here
https://soundcloud.com/brak-e-man-prod/winter

about mg
the notes and the gliss (even an octave) , quarter tone , microtones play great in the upper read e, b and gstring
and most ok on the other strings to, I'm an experienced fretless player so i don't think my technique is the problem,
rather the body tones in the lower register , I had almost the same problem with my fretted -74 ovation steelstring with a piezo.
I'll try  a regular mic but also a eq and compressor before MG and see what happens, i'll post a clip soon and even if it needs improvement  when i use the normal guitarsound mixed with a softsynth it work OK
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

cooltouch

#142
Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 23, 2014, 02:08:06 AM
I use the transducer 'cause it's easy but also sounds and records as a condenser (well almost)
you can hear it here
https://soundcloud.com/brak-e-man-prod/winter

about mg
the notes and the gliss (even an octave) , quarter tone , microtones play great in the upper read e, b and gstring
and most ok on the other strings to, I'm an experienced fretless player so i don't think my technique is the problem,
rather the body tones in the lower register , I had almost the same problem with my fretted -74 ovation steelstring with a piezo.
I'll try  a regular mic but also a eq and compressor before MG and see what happens, i'll post a clip soon and even if it needs improvement  when i use the normal guitarsound mixed with a softsynth it work OK

Thanks for the additional information.

I'm listening to your improv up at Soundcloud and I have some questions. What I'm hearing is your guitar being played through your transducer, right?  I mean, I'm hearing straight audio and no midiguitar, correct? The sounds you're getting are fascinating. I have seen a six-course 11-string fretless nylon Godin once, but didn't get the opportunity to play it. Double strings for courses 1 to 5 and a single string for course 6. I'll bet that's an interesting guitar to play.

But yours is just six strings, correct? Can you tell me anything about this instrument? Brand name, features, etc.?

Best,
Michael

Brak(E)man

Quote from: cooltouch on February 23, 2014, 09:44:16 AM
Thanks for the additional information.

I'm listening to your improv up at Soundcloud and I have some questions. What I'm hearing is your guitar being played through your transducer, right?  I mean, I'm hearing straight audio and no midiguitar, correct? The sounds you're getting are fascinating. I have seen a six-course 11-string fretless nylon Godin once, but didn't get the opportunity to play it. Double strings for courses 1 to 5 and a single string for course 6. I'll bet that's an interesting guitar to play.

But yours is just six strings, correct? Can you tell me anything about this instrument? Brand name, features, etc.?



That's a thread all by itself,
short answer

this is a plain yahama nylon which I unfretted myself
and yes it's only the transducer
I have about 6 acoustic and 6 electric fretless
(might be more)
including a dobro and a 12 string unison tuned steel-stringed acoustic (six-course )
and a custom double neck electric fretless/fretted with sympathetic strings
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6804.msg47178#msg47178
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

cooltouch

Again, fascinating!

I build guitars, specializing in classicals. I sort of backed into building 10-string classicals when the word got out that I would build them for a reasonable amount. Now the reason why I mention this is because, when I first started building classicals, I used the method of cutting frets as is described in Cumpiano and Natelson's Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology. The way he shows how to cut frets is heavy into "tradition" and very light on "technology," because he shows how to measure fret distances and cut them  manually. I did this for my first few guitars before I bought a jig and a couple of templates from StewMac, which eliminated errors.

Of these first few guitars, one's intonation is good, another's is so-so, and the third's is annoying. This third guitar sounds good otherwise -- until one tries to tune it, and then it's a study in frustration. Somewhere between the 4th and the 9th frets, I've got at least one placed off far enough to make fine tuning impossible.

So as soon as I read that you play a fretless nylon string, a little light bulb went off in my head. Turning that guitar into a fretless one is probably the cheapest way there is to eliminating the issue I have with it.

Currently, I'm debating over what I should do with the fret slots. Should I fill them in with something dark, leaving only enough room for some sort of fret marker along the top edge of the finger board, or should I fill them in with a lighter substance -- such as white epoxy or maybe even brass shimstock -- such that the fret slot lines show. I'm tempted to do the latter. Even though it sort of goes against tradition, it will be easier for me to check my intonation at a glance.

Best,
Michael

Brak(E)man

Quote from: cooltouch on February 24, 2014, 08:02:43 AM
Again, fascinating!

I build guitars, specializing in classicals. I sort of backed into building 10-string classicals when the word got out that I would build them for a reasonable amount. Now the reason why I mention this is because, when I first started building classicals, I used the method of cutting frets as is described in Cumpiano and Natelson's Guitarmaking: Tradition and Technology. The way he shows how to cut frets is heavy into "tradition" and very light on "technology," because he shows how to measure fret distances and cut them  manually. I did this for my first few guitars before I bought a jig and a couple of templates from StewMac, which eliminated errors.

Of these first few guitars, one's intonation is good, another's is so-so, and the third's is annoying. This third guitar sounds good otherwise -- until one tries to tune it, and then it's a study in frustration. Somewhere between the 4th and the 9th frets, I've got at least one placed off far enough to make fine tuning impossible.

So as soon as I read that you play a fretless nylon string, a little light bulb went off in my head. Turning that guitar into a fretless one is probably the cheapest way there is to eliminating the issue I have with it.

Currently, I'm debating over what I should do with the fret slots. Should I fill them in with something dark, leaving only enough room for some sort of fret marker along the top edge of the finger board, or should I fill them in with a lighter substance -- such as white epoxy or maybe even brass shimstock -- such that the fret slot lines show. I'm tempted to do the latter. Even though it sort of goes against tradition, it will be easier for me to check my intonation at a glance.

I have a similar story a Hopf that didn't intonate good enough
http://unfretted.com/loader.php?LINK=history#1970
check 1977
since it's your first fretless it might be good to stay with lighter substance , I use a waterbased wood filler (sawdust mixed with glue) , that comes in whatever wood/colour you'd like
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

cooltouch

Quote from: Brak(E)man on February 24, 2014, 08:43:25 AM
I have a similar story a Hopf that didn't intonate good enough
http://unfretted.com/loader.php?LINK=history#1970
check 1977
since it's your first fretless it might be good to stay with lighter substance , I use a waterbased wood filler (sawdust mixed with glue) , that comes in whatever wood/colour you'd like


I'm not new to no frets. I used to dink around on my bass player's fretless quite a bit but that was years ago. I also play a little bit of violin.


Yes, I had thought of using wood filler after I finished my above post. I think that would be the quickest and easiest way to go. I still have some blonde out in my shop, dunno whether it's still any good though.


I'm getting kinda jazzed about this. It won't take more than10 minutes or so to pull the frets. Add a bit more to repair any chipping that may occur, which is minimal if you remove frets using a soldering iron to heat them up as you remove them, and which is a virutal necessity when pulling frets with barbed tangs out of ebony.


Sounds like a good poject for tomorrow. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Best,
Michael

Brak(E)man

#148
A short clip with an acoustic fretless nylon stringed guitar through
a shadow transducer microphone mounted inside the body,
amplified with a T.C. Boost/Dist into a Behringer Guitar audio USB interface ( yeah I know)
the softsynth is mixed to loud on purpose and all's "live" through my macbook
no editing or add FX
played with no disregard for triggering ( and it's early in the morning so kinda sloppy )
It triggers OK in the treble but from the D-string down...
and I have to reboot now and then since it looses all sense of
triggering sometimes goes all over the place , not yet usable like this live,
but since I guess it's developed for electric guitar
not bad.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

cooltouch

#149
Nice! My first impressions are that it sounds rather Metheney-esque.

There are some pretty decent Middle Eastern guys who play the fretless guitar and who have videos up on Youtube. It seems that most of them are Turkish. Turks play the Oud and I suppose a fretless guitar is a reasonable facsimile thereof (cf: Godin's fretless Guitar/Oud for example).

I think this guy is Turkish.  He's using a non-standard tuning of some sort.


"Erkan O?ur plays Chopin's Prelude in E-Minor Op.28 No.4 at Yazi Tura (Toss Up) OST, with his fretless guitar, accompanied by violin and human voice." Just a still image of O?ur, but his videos are all over Youtube. This is my favorite prelude by Chopin. Way back when I was a freshman music major, a flautist friend of mine and I played this tune as a duo. The guitar was pretty much the piano's left had, and the flute was the right.  I like O?ur's arrangement.


This fellow has really good right hand technique. Left hand's no slouch either. You can tell that he's got a good command of the fretboard by the way it's been pretty much evenly darkened from the 1st fret to the 12th. His improvisation reminds me a bit of yours:


Huh. VGuitar needs to install some international character font sets so that the ha?ek over the g is displayed instead of a question mark. O?ur is Ogur with the 'ha?ek' symbol above the 'g'.  Well, that didn't work. The board software doesn't like the 'hacheck' over the 'c' either. The symbol looks like the 'caret' symbol (the one used for exponents on the keyboard, which appears above the '6'), but inverted. In Linguistics, we use the symbol to indicate palatalization of a consonant. The hacheck over a 'c' is used to indicate the 'ch' sound as is found in "church." Over the 'j' it's used to indicate the sound heard in "judge" (both the j and the g in that example). The Turkish 'g hacheck' is pronounced as an extension of the previous vowel.
Best,
Michael