VG-99 - Mandolin - Mandolin players please give feedback.

Started by Brent Flash, June 28, 2008, 03:09:37 PM

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Brent Flash

I am working on a Mandolin patch but I don't play Mandolin. Would you Mandolin players check this patch out and see if it is closer to the real deal than the factory patch?

Let me know what you find and I will tweak it.

All the other patches I have found have this high harmonic that sounds funny to me so let me know what you think and how I can improve it.

feloniouspunk

is this the same one over at the yahoo site?
Lots of Gear. :)

Brent Flash

Quote from: feloniouspunk on June 28, 2008, 05:01:05 PM
is this the same one over at the yahoo site?
Yes, if you mean the Roland VG-99 Yahoo site. I have it there too. Just trying to get as many players familiar with the Mandolin to check it out and see if it gets close.

GeePeeAxe


Elantric

#4
Brent still runs his here
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Roland_VG99/

He has lots of talent and shares VG-99 patches in the file directory over there. I used to spend my saturday mornings reposting  / copying his latest VG-99 Patch  creations of over here to our growing patch database - and now Brent actively participates over here and delivers the cream of the crop of his best examples to share with all of us here. But theres always a few arcane  or work in progress VG-99 patches that are only found over there. I welcome Brent's contributions here.

I should mention ever since Feb. 2008 , I currently run Aure Prochaska's long standing Yahoo VG-8 Group:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/vg-8

It actually runs itself - I actively screen new members to keep the spambots out - but its been re invigorated with new life ever since I removed the 3 day delay on new posts - as Prior to my arrival each and every post was scrutinized, or edited or just deleted before being posted to the group. 
there are 1900 members there - though 1700 of them are dormant non participators. 

I'm aware a newbie could easily accuse me of perhaps being a mad power hungry ego filled scientist trying to rule and control the VG world! 
But the truth is 
6 months ago,  There were several Yahoo VG-99 groups - most remain as archives, I had a very active one  ( I created because I  was painfully frustrated with the gatekeepers at existing forums) , Vance had one , Udo, had one , there was a secret VG-99 Group buy one - we closed them all down in February 2008, because the consensus was we could never promote  / support the VG-99 seriously to all Guitar Players on the globe without having a strong unified  global user community. I pressed Roland Corp to create one Just clone the Line6 Forum area , and add that to the Roland US website. But Roland Corp, didn't get it. They had the same reaction that they had to Bill Ruppert.
I thought for years we needed to get aplace on the web with a  structured  / sorted topic php type VG forum established for the VG series community. The Boss GT group  has had a user community for years. There is VS-Planet for the Roland VS Multitrackers - even Zoom palm recorders have a huge User forum area  -  I felt we deserved one too.

When a popular product hits the market, yet there is no direct user community support from the global multi-national corporation who created the product -  Well you just have to form your own User Group.   Sometimes you have to build it yourself = or find like minded individuals. Rob ( Slackjaw) had the network  / web site skills, I had the 30 years experience with every piece of Roland gear:having been at various times a  full-time touring professional, a factory Roland warranty service manager , and audio post tech director for several major hollywood productions. So after Slackjaw created the blank Template of this site last February,  I let loose my knowledge and gave this place a kick start.  I personally now have over 1000 posts here, but I'm soo happy we have attracted helpful knowledgeable folks who take the time to answer tech questions. I feel we are all here for the same agenda - to learn to how get the most from our Roland V-Guitar investment, and create work arounds for areas that Roland left off the final design. We have 100 new members each month.
We had a few false starts but now we are here - and we are all making a positive impact in everyone's  VG user experience.

carry on

Steve

RushFan

Well said Steve!

As for the patch...I've played with a real mandolin a few times and to my ear this one does sound better than the preset, which seems too thin to me.

Brent Flash

Quote from: RushFan on June 30, 2008, 01:18:37 AM
Well said Steve!

As for the patch...I've played with a real mandolin a few times and to my ear this one does sound better than the preset, which seems too thin to me.

I don't guess we have many Mandolin players judging from the number of responses, Thanks for your input. Every little bit helps. By the way I am working on an Exit Stage Left patch that you may be interested in when I get it done. I am still working on a way to be able to switch the single patch to work on most of the tunes. I will post it this week.

Mandoman

#7
Hi,

Well, I do play mandolin, in fact, I don't have a guitar to check out your patch with because I'm using the VG99 with my midi mandolin. I'm kind of doing the reverse on the VG99 ....trying to make patches that make my mando sound like a Strat, etc.... The factory patches act a bit weird because of the high frequency and string tension of the e-mandolin so I find I have to adjust them quite a bit. As I have a great acoustic mandolin, which I also run through the VG99 for effects, I haven't paid much attention to the mandolin patch.

I'd be happy to check it out on my rig, but I don't think it will help you much in terms of knowing how it sounds on a guitar.

Great effort though ....hope you don't put many mandolinist's out of business!

Tony

Brent Flash

Quote from: Mandoman on July 12, 2008, 12:16:35 PM
Hi,

Well, I do play mandolin, in fact, I don't have a guitar to check out your patch with because I'm using the VG99 with my midi mandolin. I'm kind of doing the reverse on the VG99 ....trying to make patches that make my mando sound like a Strat, etc.... The factory patches act a bit weird because of the high frequency and string tension of the e-mandolin so I find I have to adjust them quite a bit. As I have a great acoustic mandolin, which I also run through the VG99 for effects, I haven't paid much attention to the mandolin patch.

I'd be happy to check it out on my rig, but I don't think it will help you much in terms of knowing how it sounds on a guitar.

Great effort though ....hope you don't put many mandolinist's out of business!

Tony
Thanks Tony! I was afraid of that. I had read your other post and knew what you were attempting with the GK on your mandolin. Yes, I was hoping to get someone that knows what it is suppose to sound like to try out the patch on a guitar. It might be pretty freaky playing a Mandolin patch on a Mandolin. Might be like a Helium Mandolin. ;D Then again you would want to tune it back down and it may sound like a Mandolin again?  ???

Anyway keep us posted on how your experiment is going.
Thanks again for the shout back!

GrinPicker

Brent, Checked out your Mandolin patch..  I have played mando for several years now.  Your patch was really good.  I made a few changes..   Here is the modded file..just a Patch, no system info etc...

If you want me to list the changes I will, otherwise you can just load it up and check it out.  The stock patch from Roland had way too much bass to be used live.  Yours was much better.  I just dialed it in a bit.  Thanks for your patches!!! They all rock!

Brent Flash

Quote from: GrinPicker on January 07, 2009, 09:33:22 PM
Brent, Checked out your Mandolin patch..  I have played mando for several years now.  Your patch was really good.  I made a few changes..   Here is the modded file..just a Patch, no system info etc...

If you want me to list the changes I will, otherwise you can just load it up and check it out.  The stock patch from Roland had way too much bass to be used live.  Yours was much better.  I just dialed it in a bit.  Thanks for your patches!!! They all rock!
Thanks for taking the time to let me know how it worked and for doing a new version to show me what you thought needed changing for your setup. I will check it out when I get back after the weekend.

Since I made this patch and from the very get go we have been discovering how string sensitivity has a profound effect on the tone of the patches and obviously if you have a GK-3 or piezo pickup. So setup of each users guitar has given us some problems getting these patches to translate well. I guess that is why some users think the factory patches suck and some like a lot of them.

I am still having some difficulty getting my rig to work well for me live. Mostly problems with getting around from patch to patch and being able to get consistant tone from all my guitars that I like to use, but I must say even with these difficulties I am having a blast with the VG-99.

GrinPicker

I know what you mean about string sensitivity.  I do use my VG99 live every weekend and in the studio during the week.  I have had much success with setting my string sensitivity in the following steps.

This is assuming that your pickup distances, pickup type, and latest updates are all up to snuff.

I take a thin flat pick, nylon and brush strum the strings in a smooth sweep style.  Not quite a strum but a very fast pick.  I will do this for about 30 seconds until I feel that it smooth and equal to all strings.  After doing this for 30 seconds I will begin to watch the sensitivity meters.  They are pretty easy track when sweep picking this way.  The peaks will be easy to track.  I start with the high E and work to the low E.  All the while still using the sweep even though I am doing one string at a time.  Once I have the curve nice and even I change picks to what I normally use (heavy Jazz).  If you use a thin nylon you can basically stop here.  If you use a different pick, do your sweeps again with the new pick for about 30 seconds... Your peaks should still be even but probably peaking out...  Just back F1 through F6 down a bit equally on each string.. You should be pretty dialed in now.  Do this for each guitar you own as they will all be slightly different.  Hope this helps.

~Andy

Brent Flash

Quote from: GrinPicker on January 09, 2009, 10:16:59 AMThis is assuming that your pickup distances, pickup type, and latest updates are all up to snuff.
Yes, that is what I was trying to get at. Too much variation for patches to work for everyone.
Quote from: GrinPicker on January 09, 2009, 10:16:59 AM
I take a thin flat pick, nylon and brush strum the strings in a smooth sweep style.  Not quite a strum but a very fast pick.  I will do this for about 30 seconds until I feel that it smooth and equal to all strings.  After doing this for 30 seconds I will begin to watch the sensitivity meters.  They are pretty easy track when sweep picking this way.  The peaks will be easy to track.  I start with the high E and work to the low E.  All the while still using the sweep even though I am doing one string at a time.  Once I have the curve nice and even I change picks to what I normally use (heavy Jazz).  If you use a thin nylon you can basically stop here.  If you use a different pick, do your sweeps again with the new pick for about 30 seconds... Your peaks should still be even but probably peaking out...  Just back F1 through F6 down a bit equally on each string.. You should be pretty dialed in now.  Do this for each guitar you own as they will all be slightly different.  Hope this helps.
~Andy
This sounds like a good approach. I use Fender 358 Jazz Shells Heavy, sit and play and set the sensitivity, but I find that if I set the sensitivity where it hits the very top of the meter, I get some undesirable distortion in my high gain patches. On the other hand my acoustic and synth patches need to be up there to get good response. So I like to use the GK SETTING / SET MODE on PATCH so my sensitivity setting will switch to what I need. Then the problem comes in if I break a string and have to switch guitars I need to go to the GK SETTING / SET MODE / SYSTEM so the set up for that guitar will be in use but I don't get the advantage of being able to have my sensitivity settings tweaked for that patch. So, I am starting to think that it would be good to have an option per patch weather to use: GK SETTING / SET MODE / SYSTEM or GK SETTING / SET MODE / PATCH to have a little more flexibility. We will see what happens with the next firmware update. There are so many requests no telling what will happen.  ???

I am also hopeing for some FC-300 changes. I don't know if you read the thread I posted here:https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,1377.0.html
I am trying to get an easy way to switch patches. Using the process I write about in this thread I don't have to dance as much but I am still having issues with having to do multiple switch presses in some cases. Not sure why this is?  ???

Andy, what are you using to monitor through live. I am hoping sustainiac will post soon on how he likes his Traynor K4 and if the tube section does truly warm up the tone. I have used all sorts of monitors and the best are in-ears but don't get to use them as much as I would like and when I have to use a speaker it is tough to make it sound like my Genelecs in the studio. I may be getting the Traynor if I hear good things about it.

GrinPicker

Brent, for live I am using a Bugera 333XL 212 loaded with EL34s.  I was running 6L6's but the high end was a little rough to handle.  I use the low outs on stage to run to the console then through the front end.  I come out the line out and to the amp for stage monitoring.  On the floor from my old custom build rig I use a Fender CyberFoot controller, an Alesis Expression pedal, and a Boss FS-6.  My old rig (pre VG99) was a custom Fender CyberTwin SE head (1 of 1) and 2 GE412 cabs. For the synth I used a Roland GI-20 out to a Korg Triton Rack.  We were doing large Arena level gigs at the time, hence the "big" rig.  The combo works well for me now, the big rig serves as studio toys for the time being.

Haven't thought about going with a Keyboard amp for my live rig...until now. :-)  I have a couple at the shop where I work so I think I will give it a shot.